2014 Lessons (#1)

The world war is Bitcoin versus Dugin. Everything else is just messing around (or, perhaps, tactics).

December 27, 2014admin 21 Comments »
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21 Responses to this entry

  • Exfernal Says:

    Heh, ask people of former Eastern Bloc whether they miss being a part of it.

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    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 12:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Mai La Dreapta Says:

    But, but… I want to be on both of those sides.

    @Exfernal, there are a lot of people in the Eastern Bloc who miss Communism.

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    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 1:36 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    Which one winning will be the most bloody?

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    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 1:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • 2014 Lessons (#1) | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 2:19 pm Reply | Quote
  • Izak Says:

    Well, it should be Dugin’s essential position, not necessarily his pragmatic loyalties.

    I’m basically on team Dugin, but I’d never fight for the Kremlin and have no interest in empowering Russia.

    The war right now seems to be over how to determine the coordinates and parameters of future wars and battles.

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    Ovid Reply:

    >Well, it should be Dugin’s essential position, not necessarily his pragmatic loyalties.
    I’d argue his pragmatic loyalties are also ours. A revived Orthodox eastern empire pouring money into European New Right movements like Generation Identitaire and crypto-fascist ones like the Golden Dawn; would be a great blow to the Cathedral.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putins-farright-ambition-thinktank-reveals-how-russian-president-is-wooing–and-funding–populist-parties-across-europe-to-gain-influence-in-the-eu-9883052.html

    If we have to take one step back to take two forward I think we should just bite the bullet and enlist with the St Petersburg Rifles if the day comes. An enemy of my enemy is my friend is in my opinion a dangerous position, in all circumstances except when that enemy is the USA. In those situations it is preferable to support anyone over the USA
    >The war right now seems to be over how to determine the coordinates and parameters of future wars and battles.
    A final Atlanticist v Continental showdown would be climatic but not necessary I agree. That being said a decisive military defeat being inflicted on international progressivism could prove as decisive as that inflicted upon National Socialism in ’45.

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    Aeroguy Reply:

    I don’t view exchanging one populism for another as a thing worth fighting for. Maneuver opportunistically sure, but the Cathedral will collapse under the weight of their lies, barbarian hoard or not. I think what Admin is getting at is cryptographic decentralized patchwork vs Eurasian empire dominance (since USG doom is inevitable). I prefer the former but we will see if Gnon permits it.

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    Ovid Reply:

    >I don’t view exchanging one populism for another as a thing worth fighting for
    After reading the Fourth Political Theory I didn’t really get the impression it was populist, collectivist maybe. I don’t think western Europe and the Anglosphere should be subject to a revived Russian Empire, but I think some loss of autonomy is inevitable during the transition from democratic state to restoration. The role the USG plays today will in 25-50 years time be played by the Russian equivalent. This is preferable but not ideal. I know what you’re getting at but I think we should deal with bricks and mortar pragmatism rather than the assumption that “it’ll come right in the end”.

    >I think what Admin is getting at is cryptographic decentralized patchwork vs Eurasian empire dominance
    Are the two diametrically opposed though? 4PT is about global pluralism, multipolar world and all that. I don’t think a Eurasian Empire would oppose predominantly Anglo run patchwork states around the world. Unless they began preaching progressivism from commercialist pulpits like the US/UK did in the 19th century. NRx patchwork states in my mind could exist alongside a Eurasian empire.

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    @Aeroguy: Don’t be too sure about USG doom. Vladimir’s “Brezhnev” scenario is still looking plausible.

    Being screwed up is a competitive sport, and the competition out there is pretty stiff.

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    @Taylor,
    any links to the scenario? I’m interested.

    nydwracu Reply:

    A final Atlanticist v Continental showdown would be climatic but not necessary I agree. That being said a decisive military defeat being inflicted on international progressivism could prove as decisive as that inflicted upon National Socialism in ’45.

    Wait, what?

    A decisive military defeat to international progressivism implies a decisive military defeat to either the United States or Western Europe. If the States, Russkies rape and murder your parents. If Western Europe, the States decline unless they can pivot hard, and the fate of a collapsing country looks like the fate of Britain, where Pakis rape your children and murder your parents.

    The primary allegiance of anyone who has any claim to being on the ‘right’ must be to their locality, and the primary goal must be for that locality to win. If you’d sell out your own parents to the Russkies for your ideals, how are you any better than Alger Hiss?

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    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Thanks (and also, duh). Assuming ‘locality’ is defined to include family.

    Ovid Reply:

    What I was getting at was that a total top down destruction of the (at least the north east) USA like Germany in 1945 is one of many possible scenarios, in which Eurasianism restores the balance of power. Not preferable, but these fellows aren’t going to give up without a fight. The “de-Nazification” process and subsequent occupation of Germany (ongoing) should be a model for a Eurasian occupation to de-progressify the USA. Pretty hard seeing as progressivism has always been a core component of America, then again militarism was a core component of Prussia. Try finding a resident of northern Germany who wants to have anything to do with Konnigratzer marches by torchlight today.In a nutshell a military occupation could be a quicker and more decisive end to progressivism than some long drawn out cultural cold war. The north east United States is the origin of the progressive cancer, it has to be excised at all and any cost. Which brings me to

    >The primary allegiance of anyone who has any claim to being on the ‘right’ must be to their locality, and the primary goal must be for that locality to win. If you’d sell out your own parents to the Russkies for your ideals, how are you any better than Alger Hiss?

    The survival of my locality, or more broadly speaking Thede, is dependent upon the destruction of progressivism. A Eurasian victory is not by extension an automatic victory for my locality but long term it at the very least cannot be worse. In regards to me being an Alger Hiss style traitor, I can only say that in selling out my locality 2014, is not as unforgivable as selling out in 1914 would have been. My hope is that in doing so I would have helped to make my locality 2114 a place worth being loyal to.

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    @Ovid,

    I hope you’re not in America.

    I won’t bother asking if you’re American.

    And when you have enlisted and fought anywhere do tell.

    Actually the USG is really only the enemy of the American People, the rest of you just have weak governments if DC is pushing you around at this point, or really any point since 1945. It’s not our fault Europe shot it’s own balls off, regardless of how we picked up the pieces.

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    Ovid Reply:

    >Actually the USG is really only the enemy of the American People
    Syria begs to differ. The USG is a global enemy regardless of whether it has the consent or support of the American people. It is a homogenising, colonising and anti-traditional force in the world; this shouldn’t be news. Though it may not be your fault WWI and WWII ripped the guts out of Europe, you still had no right to fuel both conflicts and twist them to your advantage. The Yalta and Tehran conferences, as well as Wilsonian Doctrines, if you didn’t see what I meant there. Once again I’ll point out, to the detriment of decidedly anti-progressive forces. To hang on to the ol’ red, white and blue and sing the praises of the USA as an “idea” is little more than 1980’s tier conservatism. I don’t want to put words in your mouth here, but between you and nydwracu I’m under the impression many in NRx haven’t got over their conservative hang ups entirely.

    Locality=/=USA

    But by all means to arms for Dixie.

    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 8:23 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kgaard Says:

    In the 12-slide overview of Dugin’s 4PT (from Nick’s link) the last two slides are really the key to the whole thing.

    http://4pt.su/en/content/short-introduction-fourth-political-theory

    I don’t really see how this boils down to a contest between bitcoin and Dugin though. At most bitcoin is orthogonal to 4PT: Dugin is against homogenization of culture (partly via financialization). Bitcoin isn’t so much a cause of that as a REACTION to it.

    The Dugin-Heidegger connection is crucial, and in fact there’s an extent to which Dugin is just regurgitating Heidegger and trying to, you know, actually DO what Heidegger (sort of) proposed, within a Russian context. Where Dugin-ism would seem to have the best chance of success in a positive way is in the area of the Russian Orthodox Church. There’s a lot the state can do to promote the Russian church — and there’s no reason not to do it!

    But when it comes to pushing the whole pan-Russian brotherhood thing via invasion, that instantly runs into internal intellectual inconsistencies within Dugin’s OWN concept of multiculturalism. To the extent there is a Ukrainian people who define themselves as such, the idea of invading Ukraine and taking it over on the grounds that Ukrainians are “really” Russians smacks of exactly the kind of imperialism Dugin himself decries.

    Similarly, any move toward a uniquely “Russian” financial model is just gonna exacerbate the already overwhelming level of corruption in that country. It just doesn’t make any sense.

    By the way, the new issue of Telos Quarterly is out, and it has fantastic discussions on multiculturalism generally (much of it on the legitimacy of placing “culture” on some kind of pedestal in the first place) and the political implications of the Scottish “no” vote. Great stuff …

    http://www.telospress.com/

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 8:24 pm Reply | Quote
  • Driftforge Says:

    Also http://20committee.com/2014/12/27/putins-orthodox-jihad/ on the changes in Russia. Presented in an observational rather than supportive viewpoint, but a measure of things that the Cathedral is taking note of.

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    Posted on December 27th, 2014 at 8:37 pm Reply | Quote
  • scientism Says:

    Isn’t Putin’s Russia an example of a deep state takeover? The KGB turned out to be reactionaries and revived the Orthodox Church. Is Admin’s deep state crypto-invocation just the Atlantean counterpart?

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    nydwracu Reply:

    I don’t think it makes sense to ascribe any particular agenda to the deep state: they’re not supposed to be concerned with ideology except insofar as ideology is useful to the interests of the deep state and its country. If there is one, it’s more likely to come from selection effects (the modern art-inventing CIA being more prestigious and therefore more liberal than the almost-reactionary FBI) than conscious choice.

    The problem with deep state rule is that it has no reason to care about the population, no reason not to jackboot or replace them. There’s just nowhere in the feedback mechanism for that, other than the threat of rebellion — which makes it no better than a traditional monarchy.

    And arguably close in mechanism-space to it.

    [Reply]

    scientism Reply:

    The key concept appears to be “spiritual security”:

    http://www.historyandpolicy.org/policy-papers/papers/spiritual-security-in-putins-russia

    Engaging in cultural subversion appears to lead to asking the same type of deep questions about what makes a culture strong that typify NRx. When learning offence you learn a lot about defence.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 28th, 2014 at 4:10 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    Like messing around with tactics to avoid the thorny questions of the day?

    I do think we should leave Europe, we should have left 20 years ago. Never mind Ukraine.
    That’s banksters run wild but they can’t deliver.

    But neither can Dugin.

    I don’t really think Europe’s nationalist parties give a fuck about Ukraine, they care that they’re losing their countries, and I daresay no one in the US is talking about these things either besides the chattering class.

    The Deep State you refer to isn’t really a Deep State. Moldbug already told you who it is, and he’s right [independent confirmation]. The Intelligence agencies don’t have the power to ACT against America nor the will, nor the means. Nor could it suit their ends. So this is a fantasy.

    Unfortunately as the reality is the answer is coming from the people or none, and we so hate the democracy and it’s freedumbs [that we enjoy, if Chinese we’d be in prison] so we must ignore reality for the irrelevant and the fantastical.

    Meanwhile back in reality: Blue is Turning.

    Blue is Turning. God is still smiling at us.

    “A silent protest by the NYPD outside the church is the start of America’s response to this dysfunctional leadership in this country. “- Second city Cop commenter.

    Got dysfunctional government? Reach out man to man to your cops. WE DID. For some years now, and it’s WORKING. It helps to have an incompetent Tyrant who cuts off his own legs as he’s just putting on his Iron Boots.

    God Bless New York’s Finest. Every Cop and citizen in the Country saw them turn their backs. I must say I didn’t expect this, it’s the best Christmas present to us since 1989.

    The real 1989 has already begun. It may not be as bloodless, but it has begun. Blue is Turning.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 29th, 2014 at 1:58 am Reply | Quote

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