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	<title>Comments on: Abstract Horror (Note-1a)</title>
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	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2015 06:56:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: peter connor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[peter connor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2014 05:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One major filter that he overlooked that could easily apply to humans would be Mouse Utopia--civilizations destroy themselves dysgenic ally before they can build starships.
Of course, it&#039;s also true that aliens far more advanced than us could probably prevent detection...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One major filter that he overlooked that could easily apply to humans would be Mouse Utopia&#8211;civilizations destroy themselves dysgenic ally before they can build starships.<br />
Of course, it&#8217;s also true that aliens far more advanced than us could probably prevent detection&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Cassander</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cassander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2014 03:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s worth saying that the book you mention, Blindsight, is one of the best sci fi books ever written and cannot be recommended highly enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth saying that the book you mention, Blindsight, is one of the best sci fi books ever written and cannot be recommended highly enough.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hannon</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Hannon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 21:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All very interesting, but the Fermi Paradox appears so provincially anthropocentric when &quot;dark&#039; matter-energy is taken into account.
At present, dark matter-energy is estimated to constitute 95.1% of the total content of the universe. That&#039;s an awful lot of something (or nothing) for inscrutably more evolved life-forms than us to disappear into.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very interesting, but the Fermi Paradox appears so provincially anthropocentric when &#8220;dark&#8217; matter-energy is taken into account.<br />
At present, dark matter-energy is estimated to constitute 95.1% of the total content of the universe. That&#8217;s an awful lot of something (or nothing) for inscrutably more evolved life-forms than us to disappear into.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 16:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hanson overlooks that some civilizations are going to get self-filtered by economists.


I find this persuasive - 3. Extraterrestrials have not had time to establish large spacefaring civilizations. (Let’s not forget that the universe is extremely young, at merely 13.8 billion years old; that the farther afield we look, the further back in time we’re seeing; lastly, that it’s looking like galaxies shall remain able to support life for trillions of years into the future. All of this may imply that we’re living in an ancestor simulation, which is something I find very highly plausible.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hanson overlooks that some civilizations are going to get self-filtered by economists.</p>
<p>I find this persuasive &#8211; 3. Extraterrestrials have not had time to establish large spacefaring civilizations. (Let’s not forget that the universe is extremely young, at merely 13.8 billion years old; that the farther afield we look, the further back in time we’re seeing; lastly, that it’s looking like galaxies shall remain able to support life for trillions of years into the future. All of this may imply that we’re living in an ancestor simulation, which is something I find very highly plausible.)</p>
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		<title>By: Erebus</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erebus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 06:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are a number of &quot;solutions&quot; to the Fermi Paradox that Hanson&#039;s not taking into account.  A long review is in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.1133v1.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PDF&lt;/a&gt;.  A short cut/paste/edit below.

1. Interstellar travel is unfeasible, at any level of achievable technological development.  (This may imply that advanced extraterrestrials would retreat into simulations rather than colonize the stars.  Possibly similar to how, in Peter Watts&#039; Blindsight, humans blithely retreated into a self-indulgent sim called &quot;Heaven&quot;.  This looks increasingly probable for humanity -- of all possible futures, the Cyberpunk version might be the one we&#039;re &lt;i&gt;stuck&lt;/i&gt; with.)

2. Our observations are being deliberately manipulated or confused by extraterrestrial intelligences so as to frustrate SETI efforts.  (The more ubiquitous and common extraterrestrial life is, the more plausible this theory may be.)  

3. Extraterrestrials have not had time to establish large spacefaring civilizations.  (Let&#039;s not forget that the universe is extremely young, at merely 13.8 billion years old; that the farther afield we look, the further back in time we&#039;re seeing; lastly, that it&#039;s looking like galaxies shall remain able to support life for trillions of years into the future.  All of this may imply that we&#039;re living in an ancestor simulation, which is something I find very highly plausible.)  

4. That extraterrestrial intelligence exists, and may even have visited or does visit Earth, but that we simply have not noticed it.
4.1. Spacefaring civilizations are sufficiently rare that they are not in our search volume.
4.2. They exist, but their total energy supplies are universally below the search’s detection threshold.
4.3. ETI’s with large energy supplies universally expel waste heat at low temperatures (i.e. wavelengths longer than the capabilities of the search).
4.4. Spacefaring ETI’s inevitably discover and universally employ physics that makes their civilizations effectively invisible in the MIR despite having large energy supplies (for example, expelling their waste heat as neutrinos, efficiently using their energy supply to emit low-entropy radiation, employing energy-to-mass conversion on a massive scale, or by violating conservation of energy).

...I&#039;d add that it is possible to mask IR radiation, to some degree, even &lt;a href=&quot;http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/oct/25/natural-metamaterial-looks-cooler-when-heated&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;today&lt;/a&gt;.  It&#039;s far from impossible that spacefaring, advanced civilizations are, for one reason or another, intentionally masking their radiation signature. 

I&#039;d also add that the &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inverse square law&lt;/a&gt; makes it impossible that we&#039;ll accidentally pick up meaningful signals from anywhere, and it ensured that SETI&#039;s early chances of success were always very low.

So, with all that said, it&#039;s essentially a &lt;i&gt;non sequitur&lt;/i&gt; to say &quot;we don&#039;t see anything, therefore something out there must be killing everything.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of &#8220;solutions&#8221; to the Fermi Paradox that Hanson&#8217;s not taking into account.  A long review is in this <a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.1133v1.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF</a>.  A short cut/paste/edit below.</p>
<p>1. Interstellar travel is unfeasible, at any level of achievable technological development.  (This may imply that advanced extraterrestrials would retreat into simulations rather than colonize the stars.  Possibly similar to how, in Peter Watts&#8217; Blindsight, humans blithely retreated into a self-indulgent sim called &#8220;Heaven&#8221;.  This looks increasingly probable for humanity &#8212; of all possible futures, the Cyberpunk version might be the one we&#8217;re <i>stuck</i> with.)</p>
<p>2. Our observations are being deliberately manipulated or confused by extraterrestrial intelligences so as to frustrate SETI efforts.  (The more ubiquitous and common extraterrestrial life is, the more plausible this theory may be.)  </p>
<p>3. Extraterrestrials have not had time to establish large spacefaring civilizations.  (Let&#8217;s not forget that the universe is extremely young, at merely 13.8 billion years old; that the farther afield we look, the further back in time we&#8217;re seeing; lastly, that it&#8217;s looking like galaxies shall remain able to support life for trillions of years into the future.  All of this may imply that we&#8217;re living in an ancestor simulation, which is something I find very highly plausible.)  </p>
<p>4. That extraterrestrial intelligence exists, and may even have visited or does visit Earth, but that we simply have not noticed it.<br />
4.1. Spacefaring civilizations are sufficiently rare that they are not in our search volume.<br />
4.2. They exist, but their total energy supplies are universally below the search’s detection threshold.<br />
4.3. ETI’s with large energy supplies universally expel waste heat at low temperatures (i.e. wavelengths longer than the capabilities of the search).<br />
4.4. Spacefaring ETI’s inevitably discover and universally employ physics that makes their civilizations effectively invisible in the MIR despite having large energy supplies (for example, expelling their waste heat as neutrinos, efficiently using their energy supply to emit low-entropy radiation, employing energy-to-mass conversion on a massive scale, or by violating conservation of energy).</p>
<p>&#8230;I&#8217;d add that it is possible to mask IR radiation, to some degree, even <a href="http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/oct/25/natural-metamaterial-looks-cooler-when-heated" rel="nofollow">today</a>.  It&#8217;s far from impossible that spacefaring, advanced civilizations are, for one reason or another, intentionally masking their radiation signature. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also add that the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law" rel="nofollow">inverse square law</a> makes it impossible that we&#8217;ll accidentally pick up meaningful signals from anywhere, and it ensured that SETI&#8217;s early chances of success were always very low.</p>
<p>So, with all that said, it&#8217;s essentially a <i>non sequitur</i> to say &#8220;we don&#8217;t see anything, therefore something out there must be killing everything.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 05:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recommend _Rare Earth_, by Ward and Brownlee.

http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896/

Plate tectonics is important.  You not only have to have an environment that&#039;s just right, it has to stay just right for billions of years.  Mars used to be a much friendlier place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend _Rare Earth_, by Ward and Brownlee.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896/" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896/</a></p>
<p>Plate tectonics is important.  You not only have to have an environment that&#8217;s just right, it has to stay just right for billions of years.  Mars used to be a much friendlier place.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Money</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay Money]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2014 00:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;@Hurlock&lt;/strong&gt;
Time is covered under Supernova as a possible Great Filter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Hurlock</strong><br />
Time is covered under Supernova as a possible Great Filter.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-153016</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-153016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well based on his filters so far at 9 mins, we&#039;re stuck on Lost Desire.

But current circumstances are aberrant.   

In fact current circumstances are extremely aberrant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well based on his filters so far at 9 mins, we&#8217;re stuck on Lost Desire.</p>
<p>But current circumstances are aberrant.   </p>
<p>In fact current circumstances are extremely aberrant.</p>
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		<title>By: Abstract Horror (Note-1a) &#124; Reaction Times</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-152996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abstract Horror (Note-1a) &#124; Reaction Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-152996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Source: Outside In [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Source: Outside In [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: blockchain exit</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/abstract-horror-note-1a/#comment-152954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blockchain exit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4311#comment-152954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ot: &lt;a href=&quot;http://challengepost.com/software/ridecoin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ridecoin&lt;/a&gt; &quot;Bitcoin Uber! Distributed blockchain based ridesharing. Can&#039;t be shut down like Uber and Lyft. It just exists.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ot: <a href="http://challengepost.com/software/ridecoin" rel="nofollow">Ridecoin</a> &#8220;Bitcoin Uber! Distributed blockchain based ridesharing. Can&#8217;t be shut down like Uber and Lyft. It just exists.&#8221;</p>
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