Against Dialectics

Konkvistador (@SamoBurja): “I am in favor of persuading certain kinds of high IQ people. I am against doing dialectics with Progressives.”

We are not looking for agreement. We’re working to raise the level of explicit disagreement to a pitch we can split over.

Dialectics is the alternative to Dynamic Geography. Debating escape is not to escape.

December 1, 2013admin 32 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Neoreaction , Slogans

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32 Responses to this entry

  • Handle Says:

    I disagree with you because I believe in agreement

    [Reply]

    Diogenes Reply:

    Splitter!

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    With liberals?

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    It’s a joke.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 1st, 2013 at 4:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • GoingPro Says:

    The key is the pitch, by deactivation or editing of the hypocampus.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 1st, 2013 at 4:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • spandrell Says:

    Trolling progs into letting us secede would be the greatest achievement of humanity of the century.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    Agreed. And, I suspect that deep in their core of primate instincts, but still below conscious awareness, the savvier progressives realize this and will do whatever is necessary to prevent it from happening.

    Should they fail to prevent it, it will take them all of a year to come up with a ‘reason sufficient’ to declare war upon and destroy The Dark Nation (like ‘The Slave Power’ in the Civil War).

    The only thing that would allow for the sustainability of the political independence of such a regime would be some unexpected reversal of strength advantage; some kind of radical and unexpected innovation in military technology that would terrify and neutralize the willpower of the Senile Giant.

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    How about just having most of the American military decide to leave with the new nation? That would prevent Yankeedom from attacking I would think.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    I hear a lot of people say things like this. It made sense once upon a time. But it’s an obsolete thought now because of the indispensability of various logistical requirements which cannot be recreated ad hoc. Fuel, money, spare parts, maintenance, communications – the production of these things all collapse without the national economy and the government redirecting resources to feed the beast. And who maintains control over the intelligence satellites?

    What about all the private contractors without whom the entire system would collapse? All of these elements are critical. If a rival government like Yankeedom can cut off the flow of any one of these weak links then the capital-intensive advantage of the modern military is neutralized and whatever forces stayed loyal will quickly annihilate the deserters. There is no such thing anymore as the possibility of a contested geographic succession of peer modern militaries. It’s not an option.

    It’s like the second amendment. I like owning weapons, I’m glad I can, and I support hunters and non-criminals keeping them for self-defense from criminals, but the original justification which was partly on the basis of an expectation of individuals being able to form a militia and resist a concentrated modern military force is simply absurd and has been so for generations.

    admin Reply:

    Extremely scary deterrents are going to become very cheap over the next decade or so.

    [Reply]

    Kevin C. Reply:

    Really? Cite, please.

    admin Reply:

    @ Kevin C.
    So you missed Thales on $10,000 smallpox manufacturing?

    Kevin C. Reply:

    I’d hardy call that a “radical and unexpected innovation in military technology”; biowarfare is well known, and is the least controllable, most difficult to use form of WMD, likely to infect your own people as welll as the enemy. I fail to see how it would deter “Yankeedom” from destroying “The Dark Nation”; in fact, it would serve as the perfect casus belli, and excuse for Yankeedom to turn the major Dark Nation cities to radioactive craters.

    And remember, this is only if they fail to prevent secession; I see this as highly unlikely. The Cathedral has made exit impossible. No matter how attractive it is, no matter how much futile advocacy for it you put forth on this quiet little corner of the internet, Exit is dead and gone. There is no more escape, no more frontier. The sooner you become Enlightened to this Dark fact, and quit wasting your time an intellect on the useless pipe-dream of secession/exit, the better.

    admin Reply:

    I’m thinking that a Kevin C. + VXXC cage-match would be pretty entertaining right now.

    Posted on December 1st, 2013 at 5:39 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    @ Handle,

    “Should they fail to prevent it, it will take them all of a year to come up with a ‘reason sufficient’ to declare war upon and destroy The Dark Nation .”

    1. They have begun war and will declare shortly
    2. They intend to destroy the Dark Nation in it’s crib, now
    3. Actual Geography doesn’t happen by legislatures
    4. The Central mistake of the Confederacy was not having a dictatorship, Lincoln did. It happens to be essential for victory in war. Whatever you call it, you must have unity of effort.
    5. As far as military power; what is present is sufficient. Rather than wonder weapons, which never are.
    6. The Progs and who’s fuggn Army? Not too mention armed Americans…mind you they’ll find one.
    7. The second and fatal mistake of the Confederacy was thinking they’d ever be left alone. Had they taken Washington and destroyed the Union Army after Bull run, they would not have been left alone. Had they destroyed the North’s Army at Chanchellorville or any number of engagements, in fact an endless number of engagements they would have never been left alone.
    8. None of them apparently realized this, despite being far more familiar with New England, Puritans etc.
    9. The last Civil War was the Puritans breaking the deal with the other Protestants, they will not share power.
    10. In fact they won’t share power in any corner of the globe, they just wait their chance.
    11. Their goal is complete Dominion over the soul, which in the modern mutation they then ruin.
    12. If one did not intend to utterly destroy them, eradicating them as thoroughly as the Nazis…one is mistaken to be reading this…and blogging here.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m finding historical argument less and less convincing. Certainly they never persuade anyone. Human nature may change only with demographics, but technology has remade the world in ways that defy comparison. Sometimes things have changed too much to derive anything but the most abstract lessons.

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    R7 Rocket Reply:

    Yankeedom’s ability to pay the legions will be much weaker in the future. I doubt they will get a handle on the astronomical liabilities of the Fed Govt. This at the same time that militias will be able to create weapons by pushing the “print button”. I’m actually quite surprised how fast 3d printers are advancing, I expected printed metal weapons as strong as tool steel to be years away. Instead, they printed out an entire metal 1911.

    [Reply]

    R7 Rocket Reply:

    The Solid Concepts 1911 was printed this year. I didn’t expect this to be so soon

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    I think number 12 is the most important point made here: after the Second World War the Allies de-Nazified Germany and Europe. If NR wins it needs to de-librerafy America.

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    Michael Reply:

    a better example is Washington realizing he needn’t win just stay in the field and let the cathedral beat itself a few well timed atrocities and public opinion starts to roll over you.. The year I first moved west the feds were laying siege to the weavers a couple miles up the road An easterner I noticed something odd in a lot of america the far left and far right meet up around back, hippies and rednecks were all appalled at the feds behavior and our AG ended up filing murder charges and suing the feds for expenses they ducked out on. You dont need a a majority to win just enough to build on. currently Fairleigh Dickinson reports 29% of Americans think an armed conflict is necessary in the next few years to assure our rights. Thats extraordinary. remember it only took one guy pouring some petrol on himself to set off the whole mideast.
    At any rate we ought to be preparing communication strategies at least for speech crime laws and developing an intelligence service. But of course we ought to know what we stand for.before we ask people to swear their lives to it.Theres so much that could be done thats better than some of this navel gazing.

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    Muad'Dib Reply:

    But Randy Weaver was a Hitler! CNN told me so!

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 1st, 2013 at 9:43 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    12. If one did not intend to utterly destroy them, eradicating them as thoroughly as the Nazis…one is mistaken to be reading this…and blogging here.

    Point 12a: because that is what they already intend to do to you…

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    while i do relish a few well chosen wags swinging from lamposts [ hey can we do a post on that?]and agree we would have to be aggressive about any organizing they might try most will have to be just silenced and watch while the trains start to run on time the real change will come as it has for them when they die off and a new untainted generation

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    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Unless genetics are involved.

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    Posted on December 1st, 2013 at 9:46 pm Reply | Quote
  • Bryce Laliberte Says:

    I don’t think you can avoid dialectics. To a certain degree, insofar as we are all “recovering modernists” as it were, to grapple with neoreaction is to grapple with the modernist indoctrination in yourself. That module in our brain which screams racism! whenever things have to be said about race is still in my head. We have the advantage in that we understand how modernists (don’t) think, and they don’t understand how we think. That advantage is worth pressing. It’ll mean more resources for us and less for them if’/when the split occurs.

    How do you think the process of the Cathedral discovering neoreaction will change its articulation? Some response must be given (unless we’re satisfied being misunderstood), which entails engagement, which means dialectic. Criticism should hone our own critique to a fine point.

    It is important to know when engagement is fruitless, but I’m not worried about neoreactionaries putting forth wasted effort.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    “I’m not worried about neoreactionaries putting forth wasted effort.” — Ditto. I’d still recommend getting our disillusionment with public debate in first, to avoid the silly shock-horror when everything we say is translated into Cathedral-convenient nonsense.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    agreed to the average novitiate we are indistinguishable from Hitler reading Atlas shrugged [ BTW-what is the difference exactly?] I think whats going to be effective is what they did which is move people into their camp under false pretenses by using the enemies dialectics [ moldbug would use a virus metaphor] words ripe for introducing the virus like sustainability,science, etc they are ripe for ridicule because their new speak is so blatantly Orwellian.
    The opposite tack is the antiversity it neednt be one website though an aggregator might help,but things like the work of colin flaherty and nicolas stix have broken through.The whole HBD thing can be introduced gently by jman and HBDchick steve pinker etal once its taken hold break out Griffe etc, Sailors citizenism concept and the once common idea that immigration is bad for wages should not be hard.
    tea party pushing states rights works well with hipsters localism The techies hackers are a natural for privacy bitcoin, wikileaks etc have great potential
    we need to develop an intelligence service the immediate threats are speech laws and immigration bill.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    No Michael all that is necessary for the dissimilar to adhere to DEC, or at least break off from Progs
    is for DEC to be Stronger .

    Now you can do that, right?

    Posted on December 2nd, 2013 at 1:08 am Reply | Quote
  • Thales Says:

    Sweep the leg!

    Dialect with Progs is just giving your administrator passwords to the Borg. They’ll infiltrate your ranks and redefine your jargon because social justice — that’s what they do. No, the only “dialect” one needs with Progs is the battering ram of HBD against their HNU facade – attack them on the one point they cannot possibly concede.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    He’s right. No dialogue [required by dialectics]. As if reason means anything…

    Right — Except that there’s so many attacks.

    Listen they’re the Empire. They have to defend..everything.

    Attack them on the ridiculous notion they haven’t been in power for 80 years, the hysterical spectacle of pro-government protesters pretending to be rebels standing up to the Man.

    YOU ARE THE MAN. For 80 years.

    Defend national and global bankruptcy. Defend your attacks on Wall Street funded by Soros.

    They own it all. Now attack whatever’s weakest or is offered, and start taking or smashing things.

    There’s advantages to being the nomad Barbarian possessing nothing but weapons.

    “You have a farm and a House. I have a Horse and a Whip. I will kill you and leave.”

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 2nd, 2013 at 5:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • fotrkd Says:

    MUCH madness is divinest sense
    To a discerning eye;
    Much sense the starkest madness.
    ’T is the majority
    In this, as all, prevails.
    Assent, and you are sane;
    Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
    And handled with a chain.

    – Emily Dickinson

    (Thought I’d push the NR literary coterie angle)

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 3rd, 2013 at 6:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotto Says:

    I mostly agree with Konkvistador.

    Dialectics are fine, but they will operate mostly on the high-IQ taste-makers that the masses blindly follow. What passes for modern thought these days is a public intellectual (say, Stephen Hawking) making a single utterance that sounds good, flatters preconceived notions, and is comprehensible to the average person, which is then endlessly re-tweeted and shared on Facebook. We don’t have thought, we have pseudo-memes that are optimized for maximum social approval.

    To these people, you can’t operate on a dialectic level, but an emotional, animistic level. We should present a uniform appearance of overwhelming competence, intellectual superiority, and most importantly, a confident inevitability. They will not respond to reason and argument, but to authority, status, and confidence. Everyone wants to be on the winning side.

    Maybe the conservative-orthodox church can provide a useful model. Convert those that can be converted, and ignore the rest. Do not compromise ideology for the sake of more converts.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 4th, 2013 at 9:11 pm Reply | Quote

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