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	<title>Comments on: An Abstract Path to Freedom</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-9997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Aug 2013 00:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-9997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(I should add (if it was too implicit), going at the appropriate pace is vital, lest we stray).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I should add (if it was too implicit), going at the appropriate pace is vital, lest we stray).</p>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-9996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Aug 2013 00:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-9996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;The title of one of Nick’s papers is called “Making It With Death”, a brilliant title. Because death is inherently productive, it’s the motor, the mode of antiproduction which generates all production, the production of production. This is not simply Freud’s “Beyond the Pleasure Principle”, where life itself and all vital differences are unilateral deviations from intensive death. The claim is that you can have a moment of convergence with absolute intensity, or absolute deterritorialization. What is this, who would be the bearer, what vehicle would continue to exist to be the bearer of this thanatropic acceleration?

Not the human species, certainly. The claim is that all terrestrial history is a history of intensification, of human social organisation and the developments of advanced technological capitalist society are just a moment or a phase in the process. The continuation or intensification of the process demands the elimination of humanity as a substrate for the process.&lt;/I&gt; (Ray Brassier, Accelerationism)

&lt;I&gt;And what if the free society, as ‘probability’ dictates, is not yours?” — our rejoinder: “It would require a despicable egotist not to delight in it, even at a distance, as a beacon of aspiration, and an idiot or scoundrel not to set out on the same path, in whichever way they were able.&lt;/I&gt;

(No offence to Ray, but OK - how do we turn this thing around?) :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The title of one of Nick’s papers is called “Making It With Death”, a brilliant title. Because death is inherently productive, it’s the motor, the mode of antiproduction which generates all production, the production of production. This is not simply Freud’s “Beyond the Pleasure Principle”, where life itself and all vital differences are unilateral deviations from intensive death. The claim is that you can have a moment of convergence with absolute intensity, or absolute deterritorialization. What is this, who would be the bearer, what vehicle would continue to exist to be the bearer of this thanatropic acceleration?</p>
<p>Not the human species, certainly. The claim is that all terrestrial history is a history of intensification, of human social organisation and the developments of advanced technological capitalist society are just a moment or a phase in the process. The continuation or intensification of the process demands the elimination of humanity as a substrate for the process.</i> (Ray Brassier, Accelerationism)</p>
<p><i>And what if the free society, as ‘probability’ dictates, is not yours?” — our rejoinder: “It would require a despicable egotist not to delight in it, even at a distance, as a beacon of aspiration, and an idiot or scoundrel not to set out on the same path, in whichever way they were able.</i></p>
<p>(No offence to Ray, but OK &#8211; how do we turn this thing around?) <img src="http://www.xenosystems.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 15:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-8471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I tend to like Calvinists. (Gary North is one, I think -- his father-in-law certainly was.) They take the implicit metaphysics of Christianity seriously, which is attractive, and they&#039;re not prone to absurd hallucinations in regard to &#039;altruistic&#039; government. The [semi-secularized] presumption that people are despicable apes isn&#039;t a bad Bayesian prior.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to like Calvinists. (Gary North is one, I think &#8212; his father-in-law certainly was.) They take the implicit metaphysics of Christianity seriously, which is attractive, and they&#8217;re not prone to absurd hallucinations in regard to &#8216;altruistic&#8217; government. The [semi-secularized] presumption that people are despicable apes isn&#8217;t a bad Bayesian prior.</p>
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		<title>By: spandrell</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[spandrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 15:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-8470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Politics &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; corruption.&quot;

Yet,

&quot;Man &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; a political animal&quot;

Ergo...

&quot;Man &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; a corrupt animal&quot;

We&#039;re getting dangerous close to Calvin now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Politics <b>is</b> corruption.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yet,</p>
<p>&#8220;Man <b>is</b> a political animal&#8221;</p>
<p>Ergo&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Man <b>is</b> a corrupt animal&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;re getting dangerous close to Calvin now.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8466</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 13:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-8466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;@admin&lt;/strong&gt;

Instead of &quot;graft&quot;, I should have said &quot;secure property rights are good vs. bad&quot; or &quot;rent seeking is negative-sum vs. zero-sum&quot;.

&quot;Politics &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; corruption.&quot;

I would have worded it differently, but yes.

I think what we&#039;re arguing about is whether to judge people and their policy choices by their stated intentions or by their consequences.  In terms of stated intentions, freedom and equality point in opposite directions, but in terms of consequences, this is unclear.  Friedman is suggesting (plausibly, IMHO) that on the real axis, having secure property rights (less &quot;politics&quot;) is generally the better alternative for both freedom and equality.  If this is true, the socialists have either got the control reversed or there is a disconnect between their stated vs. actual intentions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@admin</strong></p>
<p>Instead of &#8220;graft&#8221;, I should have said &#8220;secure property rights are good vs. bad&#8221; or &#8220;rent seeking is negative-sum vs. zero-sum&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Politics <b>is</b> corruption.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would have worded it differently, but yes.</p>
<p>I think what we&#8217;re arguing about is whether to judge people and their policy choices by their stated intentions or by their consequences.  In terms of stated intentions, freedom and equality point in opposite directions, but in terms of consequences, this is unclear.  Friedman is suggesting (plausibly, IMHO) that on the real axis, having secure property rights (less &#8220;politics&#8221;) is generally the better alternative for both freedom and equality.  If this is true, the socialists have either got the control reversed or there is a disconnect between their stated vs. actual intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 05:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[By &#039;graft axis&#039; you mean &quot;who&#039;s getting what&quot; rather than &quot;graft is good / not so good&quot;? (If the latter, I think it converges with the liberty axis quite strongly, since the freedom pole on that is against politicized redistribution for anybody -- which is why it can&#039;t survive in the GOP.) 
The libertarian claim that I not only like, but consider indispensable to clear thinking, is that &lt;em&gt;politics &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; corruption&lt;/em&gt;, and nothing counts as an improvement unless politics is minimized. Doesn&#039;t this claim force &#039;real&#039; and &#039;kabuki&#039; axes to intersect?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8216;graft axis&#8217; you mean &#8220;who&#8217;s getting what&#8221; rather than &#8220;graft is good / not so good&#8221;? (If the latter, I think it converges with the liberty axis quite strongly, since the freedom pole on that is against politicized redistribution for anybody &#8212; which is why it can&#8217;t survive in the GOP.)<br />
The libertarian claim that I not only like, but consider indispensable to clear thinking, is that <em>politics <strong>is</strong> corruption</em>, and nothing counts as an improvement unless politics is minimized. Doesn&#8217;t this claim force &#8216;real&#8217; and &#8216;kabuki&#8217; axes to intersect?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 03:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-8438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like to tease people on Facebook by saying we need complex numbers to talk about politics.  There&#039;s a real axis and an imaginary (kabuki?) axis.  I usually say that the imaginary axis is Republican vs. Democratic and the real axis is insider vs. outsider.

Here I want to say that freedom vs. equality is the kabuki axis and graft is the real axis.  There&#039;s definitely sharp conflict between freedom and equality on the kabuki axis. But how does this map onto the real (graft) axis?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to tease people on Facebook by saying we need complex numbers to talk about politics.  There&#8217;s a real axis and an imaginary (kabuki?) axis.  I usually say that the imaginary axis is Republican vs. Democratic and the real axis is insider vs. outsider.</p>
<p>Here I want to say that freedom vs. equality is the kabuki axis and graft is the real axis.  There&#8217;s definitely sharp conflict between freedom and equality on the kabuki axis. But how does this map onto the real (graft) axis?</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Typically clever, but also a diversion, because actual pro-liberty and pro-equality &lt;em&gt;policy preferences&lt;/em&gt; are almost perfect reciprocals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typically clever, but also a diversion, because actual pro-liberty and pro-equality <em>policy preferences</em> are almost perfect reciprocals.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[David Friedman has a nice paper on the subject of the supposed trade-off between liberty and equality, &quot;Many, Few, One: Social Harmony and the Shrunken Choice Set&quot;.  Unfortunately, it&#039;s a $10 download from JSTOR.  I can&#039;t comment on it effectively without some graphics.  No ASCII art today!  My (brief) comments are here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/ccg-notes.htm#shrunken]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Friedman has a nice paper on the subject of the supposed trade-off between liberty and equality, &#8220;Many, Few, One: Social Harmony and the Shrunken Choice Set&#8221;.  Unfortunately, it&#8217;s a $10 download from JSTOR.  I can&#8217;t comment on it effectively without some graphics.  No ASCII art today!  My (brief) comments are here:</p>
<p><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/ccg-notes.htm#shrunken" rel="nofollow">http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/ccg-notes.htm#shrunken</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Hannon</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/an-abstract-path-to-freedom/#comment-8402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Hannon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2013 19:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=782#comment-8402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rich want the poor as slaves: poor want the rich as lunch.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich want the poor as slaves: poor want the rich as lunch.</p>
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