Brexit

Brexit00

Making the case for Brexit water-tight:

If the English vote to leave the EU, the Scots will vote to leave the UK. There will then be no Britain. Meanwhile, the shock of Brexit to a continent already staggering under many crises could spell the beginning of the end of the European Union.

ADDED: It’s a trend.

February 22, 2016admin 53 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Pass the popcorn

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53 Responses to this entry

  • Brett Stevens Says:

    …the beginning of the end of the European Union.

    And of prominence of liberal democracy. The magic system has failed; time to research alternatives.

    The realization is also dawning on people that liberalism and anything else are totally incompatible. Time to exile the Leftists to Asia again.

    [Reply]

    Irving Reply:

    When were the Leftists ever exiled to Asia?

    [Reply]

    SanguineEmpiricist Reply:

    I think he means immigrants.

    [Reply]

    Grotesque Body Reply:

    The problem with exiling leftists to Asia is they turn into rightists.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 5:29 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brexit | Neoreactive Says:

    […] By admin […]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 5:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • TexasCapitalist Says:

    Honestly I’m a little bit surprised that you aren’t doing the usual, “You know, it may seem like it’s a good idea, but actually better governance will hinder our cause. It’s best if we have the worst government possible, if I could decide who would rule the West it would just be Robert Mugabe at every level.” I’m not talking about Trump or alt right fantasies or anything really, just what seems to be your position a lot in general. Is admin a little bit soft for his closest kin? Seems pretty 1488 to me.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Geopolitical disintegration is the one thing you seize immediately, without qualifications. Any part of the US (or any other Anglosphere society) breaking off, my position would be the same.

    On the whole ‘1488’ side — Richard Spencer is already laying down a “Brexit won’t solve anything” line. The Alt-Right aren’t to be trusted on secession. Their will-to-power is too uncultivated.

    [Reply]

    Hattori Reply:

    Spencer says it because he doesn’t see why Brexit would mean rolling back prog policies including immigration in general. You think it would? I think he would prefer Brexit too, just because it weakens the EU.

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    Hattori Reply:

    Oops I just read these Spencer Tweets.

    ““Euro-skeptics” are also allergic to considering the *potential* of the European idea and a European Union of some kind.”

    “The Eurocrats are constructing the infrastructure of a Racial Empire . . . ”

    I have to take it all back.

    Hattori Reply:

    “Might it be our great task to take over the EU infrastructure and use it for the flourishing of the White race?”
    Oh my god it keeps getting worse.

    Morkyz Reply:

    I think the Prussian also said the EU was a proto-WN organization, but he was joking.

    Ahote Reply:

    Nationalists of whatever variety are just socialists with functional amygdala. Alt-Left is kind enough to admit that.

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    The Anglosphere needs a reorg- true. Along the lines of being run by Anglo’s again or at least whites.

    But what is Admin’s position on say a Chinese patchwork?

    China has plenty of centrifugal forces to tear it apart.

    Is patchwork and territorial distentigration also good for China?

    [Reply]

    Morkyz Reply:

    That’s crazy talk, China is our greatest ally! Don’t you know they’re the only foothold of non-democracy among the great nations?

    admin Reply:

    NRx is an Anglophone current. It has no application to other cultures, IMHO. That said, the allies Anglophone patches, fragments, and federations find in the world are consistently situated among the disintegrated fringes of other civilizations. Hence (obviously) the “Hong Kong and Singapore” mantra that cannot ever be chanted enough.

    TexasCapitalist Reply:

    Your response made sense to me, admin. I also agree that a brexit, general disintegration of the EU, and some level of separatism in Anglo-sphere states would be good, and quite possibly in other areas as well.

    One thing that I’m interested in, I gather that you’ve lived some significant portion in a very big metropolitan area on mainland China. If I’m wrong or you would wish that to be discrete I apologize, though I thought that you were making it not so secret intentionally. I’m guessing you’ve lived there to get a better feel for China in general, especially the Coastal areas of China that have been sliding towards the right economically through special trade zones or whatever they call them.

    My question to you about this if you’ve already spent a lot of time in this area, why not live in Hong Kong or Singapore if they’re as close to a functioning “country” on earth at present? I’m not criticizing you, it just seems a little bit off to me, if there’s hidden reasons you don’t want to talk about I understand. Is it because Singapore is a little bit too efficient to put up with Continental philosophers who write on interesting but fundamentally inane topics? Just kidding, sort of, but one idea that popped into my head was possibly a lower cost of living, but not sure how true this is.

    Hong Kong and Singapore are both admirable states. I think Hong Kong might in some ways be objectively superior because of slightly higher economic rightism, but only barely, and really that’s only because they have a significant advantage in one area demographics wise. Singapore wins when you consider how certain elements of their population aren’t quite ready for total economic freedom, it really is absolutely amazing how functional it is when you consider that point. The right-wing multiculturalism bit is also interesting. They both have a HUGE demographic problem but I’ve heard that the Chinese there are converting to Christianity a little bit, hopefully that will help, or maybe it will give them white guilt.

    On the topic of how low UK has fallen- Why on earth did they give back Hong Kong? It’s hard for me to tell exactly, but to me a Hong Kong nominally ruled by Britain but in actuality economically/socially/ autonomous with one figurehead British capitalist ruling and with the Anglo-sphere military defending it would be ideal. Aren’t people supposed to be able to vote which country they’d like to be in? Did the British get social justiced in the 80s/90s into handing back Hong Kong? The Commie Chinese aren’t even the ones UK signed the lease with, that was the Chinese Monarchy!

    admin Reply:

    I live in Shanghai. It’s three times larger than Hong Kong and Singapore combined. For anyone who appreciates urban intensity (not used here — American-style — as a euphemism for crime and dysfunction) it’s a hard place to leave. It makes HK and Sing. feel like villages. I wouldn’t invest in the SH though, due to unacceptable levels of regime risk.

    When the Tories handed over HK with something repulsively like satisfaction, and furthermore closed the doors on HK immigrants (while continuing to welcome streams of toxic Pakistanis), my break with UK Conservatism was sealed for good.

    TheDividualist Reply:

    @admin

    >NRx is an Anglophone current. It has no application to other cultures, IMHO.

    I fail to see how it makes sense, given that the Cathedral is mostly an Anglophone phenomenon, hence cultures less affected by it could break out from under it easier.

    As for territorial disintegration, maybe that makes sense to say it is to be interpreted mostly in the Anglosphere, because I noticed Anglos tend to be loyal to values first, ethnicity or culture second, and loyalty to geography is a distant third. The kind of emotional attachment e.g. Serbs have to Kosovo as a place on the map and not as a people or culture, is almost unknown in Anglo cultures and in fact sometimes makes mutual understanding harder. You probably feel nothing particularly emotional about the Thames.

    Perhaps – likely – this curious lack of the geographic kind of patriotism or attachment in Anglo cultures is actually one of the core advantages. It is a form of a lack of romanticism.

    Anyhow. The point is, in any culture where people think that mountain over there is emotionally sacred for me and must belong to my government, patchworkification gonna be harder to impossible.

    Irving Reply:

    >Richard Spencer is already laying down a “Brexit won’t solve anything” line. The Alt-Right aren’t to be trusted on secession.

    Yeah, Spencer says that he wants to create a “European Superstate” that would encompass everything from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Presumably, he’ll be the leader of it, or someone who shares his principles. In a recent podcast, he even insisted that “the friend-enemy distinction cannot be drawn within the [White] race”, and that the creation of a “European superstate” is the only way to make sure that this doesn’t happen. He includes all Anglos, Latins, Germans, Slavs and Celts within his definition of the White race. And in another podcast, he castigated UKIP and other Euro-skeptic parties for complaining about the wealth transfers from the more economically productive parts of the EU to the less economically productive parts, because apparently he thinks that these wealth transfers are legitimate, and that the only illegitimate economic transfers are those directed towards “non-white”, particularly African, countries.

    Admin, Spencer’s position is exactly yours, isn’t it? I could’ve sworn he got these ideas from your blog…

    [Reply]

    GC Reply:

    “Presumably, he’ll be the leader of it, or someone who shares his principles.”

    Eschewing bigger government or the creation of supra-national bodies under the assumption that they’re going to be used and run in exactly the way they want them to be is an exercise in wishful thinking common among the left. Especially when the majority of the population doesn’t happen to share their particular views (remember all those hilariously wrong “the Arab Spring will bring freedom[sic] and democracy” predictions?)

    michael Reply:

    Im no Alt Reich expert but seems to me Spencer is simply accepting what we all understand to be HBD and its implications for civilizations, and a no enemies to the right biology.I have to say this constant squeamishness about them followed by another round of race porn teasing is strange.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    It would be hard for me to disagree more. Don’t you even Hajnal Line, just for starters? You do get that none of the actual HBD crew are remotely onboard with this? (The EGI-types — Salter and MacDonald might be — but they’re a different breed entirely.)

    Grotesque Body Reply:

    You’ve got to ask the question, what could possibly count as ‘better governance’ under demotism?

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 5:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brexit | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 10:10 pm Reply | Quote
  • tokarev Says:

    Vladimir Putin and Marine Le Pen want us to leave. Barack Obama, Angela Merkel and all our traditional friends, in Europe, North America and the Commonwealth, want us to stay. Need I say more?

    Well I’m sold.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 10:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    Brexit is a two-fer.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 22nd, 2016 at 11:22 pm Reply | Quote
  • D. Says:

    The European Union is the prison-house of nations. Creative destruction applied to the EU and the eurozone can only have less bad results than our current situation.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 12:09 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    I won’t argue the EU sucks. It’s a phony, treaty patched together contradiction.

    Actual distentigration of nations is a different matter.

    For all the yahoos the US breaking apart doesn’t give you either good governance or distinct nations.

    If admin wants to see what it would look like he can review Chinese History. It looks like a bloodbath that only ends when a strong ruler or state unifies the nation.

    [Reply]

    Morkyz Reply:

    The anti-american sentiment in the alt-right bothers me too, but if you had to choose between a unified US with SJW ideology, socialist economics, and Brazilian demographics, vs secession of at least some territories if not outright breakup, which would you choose?

    I also think secession would not necessarily be bloodier than whatever else it would take for the US to turn it’s ship around, and our guys would have a better chance of coming out on top if/when the nation is reunified.

    [Reply]

    tokarev Reply:

    It certainly doesn’t guarantee good rule; that’s not the point. Superstates like the US and EU can afford to be more stupid and engage in more regulatory capture than smaller states before having to face reality. Worse, they create loads of bureaucratic positions which can be filled with ideological mandarins.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Yes. You can’t do political-economic creative destruction with super-states. They are thus entropy-accumulation trash-piles.

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    Anomaly UK Reply:

    If post-Brexit Britain does well, that’s good, it’s sapping the authority of progressive univeralism. If post-Brexit becomes a Corbynite or Pakistani-dominated disaster, that’s good (albeit not for me), it’s serving as an example and accelerating discontinuous change. That’s why disintegration is always a positive development.

    [Reply]

    Erebus Reply:

    Your reading of Chinese history is spurious. The Dynastic Cycle theory of history is closer to the truth. In a sentence: Dynasties start strong, decline over time, collapse, and only from the ashes of fallen governments do strong new governments form. Good governance is associated, broadly, with dynasties in their youth — whereas corruption, decadence, and misrule are associated with old dynasties. (It’s undoubtedly true that the rulers of the Late Qing dynasty were catastrophically bad. Yet the first Qing emperors are, in contrast, still much-loved and admired.)

    Of the great and comparatively recent dynasties, the Tang lasted 289 years, the Ming 276 years, the Qing 268 years. The USA is in its 240th year — and a pall of corruption and decadence hangs over its government. You see this as well as I do.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 12:40 am Reply | Quote
  • Morkyz Says:

    I’m thinking my new troll ideology will be NRx-satanism, which is where I say I believe the cathedral exists, but we should worship at it unironically seeing as how it provides us with the tools to limit capitalism and also world domination.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    I was assuming a position close to that was already common, both on the Left and the romantic ‘right’.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 1:11 am Reply | Quote
  • Kgaard Says:

    The economic shitstorm would be spectacular. But then the northerners, southerners and easterners would arrange into three currency blocs and normality would re-ensue, I think. The three main problems with the EU are:

    a) No control over immigration policy;
    b) Monetary policy is not suitable for all countries (and can’t be);
    c) You’ve got three culture blocs that don’t really mix that well: northern, southern and eastern.

    Problems b and c get solved by breaking into three parts. And that probably goes part way to solving problem a.

    Mentally I’m thinking of the UK countries in some sort of Hanseatic League arrangement with the other northerners but maybe not …

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    States should be small enough to be tortured in the ice-storms of Gnon.

    [Reply]

    Kgaard Reply:

    Yes but capital needs markets — the bigger the better. You’re basically talking about a Smoot-Hawley-ization of Europe, which would be catastrophic. And as long as the immigration question is dealt with, I don’t see why the Dutch and Belgians should have to stop at the border every time they want to go get a steak from their favorite restaurant on the other side> It’s masochistic.

    That said, I guess you could create a sort of EZ-Pass system for immigration in which overhead scanners read the passports or drivers licenses of trusted people and they can continue to whip through borders with no fuss. But that might take a while to get going and would be very subject to abuse.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Trade doesn’t require political unity. As software eats the world, the ability of political entities to police commerce will diminish drastically.

    Aeroguy Reply:

    As industrialized civilization approaches closer to being a one world market complete with unified high cost of capital investment specialization areas, single points of failure multiply. Grouping everything together makes perfect sense for maximizing the short term, but it doesn’t account for tail risk. There’s no room for hedging bets, only doubling down.

    “You can’t do political-economic creative destruction with super-states. They are thus entropy-accumulation trash-piles.” Beautifully stated.

    Granted there will be large economically interdependent blocks, and having Europe as one of them doesn’t strike me as problematic, however we’re on a trajectory towards entrenched economic interdependence on a universal scale so anything that knocks that off is most welcome.

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 2:00 am Reply | Quote
  • SVErshov Says:

    it does no matter what they do now, choices are bad, like really bad. they schould never get into that cartel in first place. nobody is innocent in this shait.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 4:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Mark Says:

    @Kgaard

    “Trade doesn’t require political unity. As software eats the world, the ability of political entities to police commerce will diminish drastically.”

    I’m hoping this is something you’ll be covering in CC?

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 6:54 am Reply | Quote
  • TheDividualist Says:

    Funny how nobody talks about the practicalities of these matters. For example, the No. 1 deal average people got out of the EU was free movement and no work or residence permits. So now there are millions of UK retirees in Spain and France, and Polish plumbers in the UK. What would happen to them?

    Funny thing is, if these rights would be more or less guaranteed by basic normal international treaties, for most people the EU could go fuck itself. The only thing most people get out of the EU is this ability to work in a higher paying, more expensive country when you are young, and then later on start a business in, or retire to, a lower paying, cheaper one. Many businesses live off this arbitrage, like hiring consultants in Prague for half the pay and then renting them out to projects in the UK or Germany for a slightly lower than usual rate.

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    Anomaly UK Reply:

    In the past these kind of issues have been prominent, but there’s a reason they aren’t this time. The rump EU could in theory punish Britain massively for leaving, but right now they can’t afford to. You want to trash what’s left of the Spanish property market? Say goodbye to the Euro. Restrict trade with Britain? Danish and Swedish exit suddenly shoot up the agenda. The EU might not survive Brexit. My guess is it will, but it has zero room for manoeuvre.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    The fact that you can have a society choked with the enraged sons of Jihad, and everyone is talking about Polish plumbers, is a sign that Europe deserves to burn.

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    TheDividualist Reply:

    That’s pretty much unrelated – e.g. Pakistani immigration is all about post-colonial guilt-tripping exploited by the elites, started long before the UK joined the EU and most likely wouldn’t be stopped by an exit. Only if the exist snowballs into a far more radical change.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    To a degree, but the EU now represents imposed Islamization. If Brexit occurs, that will be why.

    ivvenalis Reply:

    Complaints about Polish plumbers appear to be motivated mostly by the fact that complaints about Muslims carry a prison sentence.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 10:53 am Reply | Quote
  • Scott Alexander Says:

    Am I the only one who notices the flame-demon in this picture? It’s got a skull head in a big grin and is wearing one of the EU stars as a crown? Reaching out toward the left to wrap another EU star in its fiery hands? It’s pretty creepy when you see it.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Sshhhhh

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    Lesser Bull Reply:

    It’s more comic than creepy.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 1:47 pm Reply | Quote
  • Morkyz Says:

    Germanic-Supremacism relative to other European groups is so obvious that you can’t really do HBD at all with “peddling” it.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 7:17 pm Reply | Quote
  • Morkyz Says:

    Land is unfairly maligning MacDonald by implying that he’s comparable to Salter imo. He is less about “EGI” than just positing group interests and letting you draw your own conclusions. I think you would need to do some heavy psychoanalysis to figure out how this persuades people, my guess it that it’s close enough to the naturalistic fallacy to let people smugly dismiss it, but not really equivalent.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 23rd, 2016 at 7:21 pm Reply | Quote

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