Chaos Patch (#108)

Huangshan restricted Admin-service edition. (Open thread + (a thin spattering of) links)

Toxic voice. The Cathedral memeplex. Against simplicity. On Gnon. The weekly round.

Breitbart profiles the Alt-Right (hit-and-miss, but interesting, and an event). Milo doesn’t even real.

A smart response to this idiocy.

Trump stuff. “Trump is Kemal Ataturk.”

Tesla’s next step (1, 2). End times.

Honesty. Harsh but sound. “Should we remain one species?”

Spite. Galileo was no Kepler.


April 3, 2016admin 30 Comments »

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30 Responses to this entry

  • Chaos Patch (#108) | Neoreactive Says:

    […] Chaos Patch (#108) […]

    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 2:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • SVErshov Says:


    honestly, I would rather take Chanakya’s part on that one

    “Do not be very upright in your dealings for you would see by going to the forest that straight trees are cut down while crooked ones are left standing. Chanakya”


    admin Reply:

    There are certainly plenty of deeply pathological associations to be acknowledged. Super-honest Germans and Swedes are looking straightforwardly suicidal these days (with the added irony of an almost incomprehensibly dishonest thought-control public culture in both cases).


    Alrenous Reply:

    Problem: by ‘UK’ they mean ‘Nottingham grad students.’ Other samples are going to be similarly nonrepresentative. Better than nothing, but the error bars are enormous.


    Brett Stevens Reply:

    A third way is Plato’s formula: “good to the good, bad to the bad.” Works every time. Treat your allies and friends well and if you know someone is a threat, treat them like an enemy.


    TheDividualist Reply:

    “They treat me like a fox, a cunning fellow (Schlaukopf) of the first rank. But the truth is that with a gentleman I am always a gentleman and a half, and when I have to do with a pirate, I try to be a pirate and a half.” Otto von Bismarck.

    I intend to write a post about it, so I might as well just float the idea here to see how it would be received. There is the Golden Rule, which means treat others like you want to be treated, which emerged in many cultures because it is a decent Schelling point. But it needs to be supplemented with something we may name after the old Otto the Iron Rule: treat others as they actually treat you or how, to your best knowledge, you could be expected to be treated by them if the tables were turned. Golden Rule and Iron Rule, ethics and Realpolitik, the art of politics is balancing between these two.

    I haven’t looked much into game theory in the last 20 years, I remember that back then the best – as in: winning actual competitions, against human players and algorithms – way to play an Iterated Prisoner Dilemma was to start cooperative, then reflect the other players choices, cooperate if he cooperates and defect if he defects, however if you are stuck in a mutual defect-defect race to the bottom offer a way out by offering cooperation. This was called “tit for tat with forgiveness”. But most of the time, save for these two exceptions, do what the other does. 90% Iron Rule 10% Golden Rule. Was there a better algorithm invented since then?

    Wiki suggests a reputation mechanism, which is covered by my “what you could to your best knowledge expect” “contrite tit for tat” may also be better, in the sense of fixing accidental mistakes, this is not part of my definition of the Iron Rule but basically can be defined as “own up to your mistakes” and in this sense a fairly close ethic. In some cases “tit for two tats” works, this can be defined as “have some – not infinite – amount of tolerance”. These are acceptable pragmatic modifications of the general Iron Rule.

    Am I in uncharted territory or has it been suggested already that the Golden Rule needs such a hard-nosed companion rule?


    ||||| Reply:

    “Am I in uncharted territory or has it been suggested already that the Golden Rule needs such a hard-nosed companion rule?”

    And then of course there’s all the literature about higher-order punishment, cooperation, etc.

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    I like that Bismarck quotation.

    I have been toying with the idea of offering a workshop on moral philosophy at a week-long church retreat. Yes, ch. 12 of Richard Dawkins’ _The Selfish Gene_, with its discussion of the Iterated Prisoners’ Dilemma and the “tit for tat” strategy, is a major part of what this would entail. Can I reconcile Dawkins with Christianity?

    Also, can I reconcile Christianity with William Hamilton’s rule (varying degrees of altruism make sense, depending on how closely you are related to the beneficiary)?

    Other thoughts: Edward O. Wilson’s writings on the biological basis of morality (e.g. _Consilience_). Adam Smith’s (_The Theory of Moral Sentiments_) and Friedrich Hayek’s (_The Fatal Conceit_, ch. 1) writings about morality as an emergent phenomenon. Laurence Iannaccone on economics of religion and the theory of clubs (and morality as a “credence good”).

    Grotesque Body Reply:

    The Chanakya/Kautilya Niti blows Nietzsche’s aphorisms out of the water in many respects, I think. I’ve got a copy next to my bed probably permanently now.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 2:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    I like the idea that Milo Yiannopolous is a 4chan creation. That’s brilliant: create a media personality and have it be omnipotent through group work. Reminds me of a William Gibson novel where a Japanese pop star was entirely computer-generated.

    It is fun watching liberal democracy fail. I would like to see white nationalism burn as well. These are misdirected human energies.

    In the news, the signaling continues… but more warily than usual. The fear is delicious.


    Alrenous Reply:

    He says his practice is standard and it is. It’s more like newsflash: hobbits ignorant of how the sausage is made.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 2:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    Journalist not good at accuracy? Truly, the end times have come. It’s almost as if, with unpaid interns, you get what you pay for!
    It was amusing watching fullchan go into convulsions about it. “They’re trying to whitewash us!” And this is bad? It means they think you’re cool and want to be cool too, you morons.

    We find Galileo’s biographies are in fact hagiographies, written because they can be used as a club. It should not be surprising that progressives tend to play fast and loose.

    Yes, LW of all places.

    Galileo was not convicted of being a good scientist. He was convicted of being such a huge asshole it stopped being a trifle.


    TheDividualist Reply:

    >We find Galileo’s biographies are in fact hagiographies, written because they can be used as a club.

    This is perfectly correct, in the last few centuries in Europe everybody who wanted to fuck with the Catholic Church in the name of Enlightened Reason named themselves something like Galilei Society. In the UK/US this was not necessary as Protestantism led to Catholicism sufficiently hated without having to mix Enlightenment Rationalism into it.

    Sometimes I wonder if this is why the historical origins of the Cathedral are so murky, I mean, Moldy and others call it an Anglo-American thing that got pushed on Europe, but how does that explain the French Revolution and the Jacobin worship of Rousseau and many other kinds of homegrown European leftism?

    And maybe the answer is that the trunk of the tree is anti- and post-Catholicism. It quickly broke off into two large branches: Anglo-American Protestantism, leading to Cromwell and Harvard and so on, and Franco-German Enlightenment Rationalism, anti-clericalism, which was less obviously religious (a more secularized form of Gnosticism). (Scandinavia and other non-Anglo Protestants did not matter much, they were mostly busy with militarism and war. Sweden demonstrates that warmongering leads to socialism. But I digress.) Cromwell-Harvard gives us Abolitionism and the Prohibition and the New Deal, Franco-German anti-clerical Rationalism gives us Rosseau, Jacobins, Marx, Paris Commune, 1848 etc. The two branches being fairly far from each other, linked only a common trunk of anti- and post-Catholicism. Then at a point later on these two large branches cross-fertilize.

    Does that sound historically plausible?


    frank Reply:

    So you mean to tell me if the Hyperboreans or the Franks came to dominate the world instead of Anglos, we’d pretty much have the same Cathedral — with a distinct flavor? I’m not so sure about German leftism. I don’t know enough about German history to tell if most of their revolutionary activity were attributable to Jews or not.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 4:33 pm Reply | Quote
  • grey enlightenment Says:

    ‘end times’ will probably mean no more teslas. We’re in awe of new, interesting technology and research, but economic collapse will set everything back.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 6:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • Tentative Joiner Says:

    I would expect embryo selection, and following that iterated embryo selection, to make an impact before HGE is available.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 7:09 pm Reply | Quote
  • Mark Citadel Says:

    The anti-Moldbug piece reads like satire. Is there now an official black grievance template that every activist just copies from?


    Grotesque Body Reply:

    Their research methods can’t be too rigorous; I’m not seeing any exposition of our esoteric initiation rituals or crab deities.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 7:11 pm Reply | Quote
  • Going Pro Says:

    Minimal, but a better user experience regardless: end your hyperlinks with “target=”_blank” .
    Removes the effort of right-clicking on a link, and going to “open link in new tab”.

    There’s always more than one link in a chaos patch that one wants to look at I think.


    Rucoi Reply:

    depends on the browser I believe.

    Countless are the times when I awake and say to myself that if I have to right-click another link I just might blow my top, once and for all.


    Going Pro Reply:

    Better user experience = Better user experience


    Tentative Joiner Reply:

    It would be a worse user experience for those who want to browse the links one at a time in the same tab. Moreover, in IE/Chrome/Firefox it is easy to force a link to open in a new tab but not to override target=”_blank”.


    TheDividualist Reply:

    Middle click.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 7:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotesque Body Says:

    From the toxic voice link:

    “The 21-year-old semiliterate prostitute and the 65-year-old professor of political science who has lost an arm in the war, has a large family, carries a considerable tax burden, and has a real understanding of the political problems on which he is expected to cast his ballot—they are politically equal as citizens.”

    This would have a lot more oomph if our professor was in a real discipline like mathematics or engineering.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 9:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotesque Body Says:

    “I, certainly, do not intend to celebrate programming with or give time and money to a speaker who has written extensively in support of my oppression.”


    How do these people even breathe? How do they live?


    TheDividualist Reply:

    Hanlon’s Razor doesn’t always cut straight. I this case it is straight malice, not stupidity. I mean, MVC authors are selected by Shanley Kane.

    Everybody who works with her cannot possible make a honest, stupid mistake.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 10:02 pm Reply | Quote
  • Herbert Z. Oinlein Says:

    >Should we remain one species?

    Other interesting reflections on that subject I read a few days ago.


    Posted on April 3rd, 2016 at 10:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • AD Says:

    “Should we remain one species?”

    spread out – Gnon might not get us all at once


    Grotesque Body Reply:

    “Alas,” said the mouse, “the whole world is growing smaller every day. At the beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad when I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner stands the trap that I must run into.”

    “You only need to change your direction,” said the cat, and ate it up.


    Posted on April 4th, 2016 at 11:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Outliers (#1) Says:

    […] Yep, I’m lazily ripping off a format from a more respectable blog. […]

    Posted on April 12th, 2016 at 5:02 am Reply | Quote

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