Chaos Patch (#6)

Going Pro asks “for a chaos patch regarding the desire for something to ‘catch on’. Where does this desire come from? Maybe this would slow down the torch-raising ideology, and speed up the humility in fatalism … which speeds up speed.”

(‘Pliability’ is my middle name.)

December 6, 2013admin 23 Comments »
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23 Responses to this entry

  • VXXC Says:

    “humility in fatalism”.

    We’ve had quite enough humility and fatalism thank you No.

    What’s needed is gnostic and menacing high self-esteem, and as for fatalism replace with sense of mission and destiny.

    And attack. That’s the core of it, and the strength.

    Reinforce success, perhaps the first success in centuries, born of the first original thought in centuries.* With it’s roots in knowledge hidden successfully for a century. Until Moldbug not un-earthed in our lifetimes. Until Moldbug the Power Structures pieties were taken as faith and not analyzed coldly – in his case by Machiavellian analysis. It’s working so continue the attacks.

    *Thank you Google. For Gnon guided your hands to destruction, your own greed for power undoes you.

    Accelerate the Destruction/speeds up speed: Trotsky didn’t succeed on the Left, he has nothing to offer the Right except failed boogeyman. Trotsky is the Singularity personified. Not everything Stalin did was evil. He destroyed Hitler. He destroyed Trotsky first.

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    “What’s needed is gnostic and menacing high self-esteem”

    No.

    In the modern world “high self-esteem” is too often just narcissistic rage. The conservatives / Right are the adults in civilization the Left are the children. Narcissistic rage is for children. Calm self-confidence is for adults.

    “and as for fatalism replace with sense of mission and destiny.”

    This may work for the Left but I’ve never really seen it work for the Right. I think NR is great for diagnosing and explaining the Modern Structure, but NR needs to also turn its Dark sight to the question of why the Right is always losing. The continuing retreat of the right has gone on too long in Western history for any simple explanation to satisfy. Take the same kind of analytically skills used to diagnose the Left and do it to the Right. Progressive may be the disease but the Right is surely sick as well. Why is it sick, how did it become sick, and what is the cure?

    “Reinforce success, perhaps the first success in centuries, born of the first original thought in centuries.”

    Actually I think right-wingers have figured a lot of this out before. The NEW thing is the communication technology that allows us to talk the way we do. I don’t mean to go all old-fag on you but I don’t thing most NR / right-wingers understand how isolated congenital conservatives were before the Internet allowed us all to talk… hell talk radio allowed communication between the right that didn’t exist before. One of the Left’s winning strategies was to dominate the dialog by taking control of the media organs, but with digital communications that is breaking down.

    Look at this map of what the election would have looked like if only white men voted:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/what-the-2012-election-would-have-looked-like-with

    and yet I’ve spent my entire life feeling as though I were the last of my tribe because media organs have portrayed the opposite to be the reality. If you watched any branch of the Western media over the last 50 years you would have thought the map would be the opposite – 5 small red states and 45 deep blue.

    [Reply]

    Kevin C. Reply:

    “…and what is the cure?”

    What makes you think there is a cure; that the disease isn’t terminal?

    [Reply]

    j. ont. Reply:

    “It’s working so continue the attacks.”

    What specifically is working? Moldbug’s critique? Certainly, some of us have benefited from his insight, in a theoretical way. But UR has also given a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals a hero to worship, and to refer back to vaguely (as though someone who disagrees with them would actually take the time to sift through a blog with long-winded posts that go back years).

    I hope you don’t mean the recent “engagements” with the mainstream media, which have been mostly disappointing, occasionally embarrassing, and very rarely productive. Some of us are actually adults, as Puzzle Pirate says above. Surely we are above the kind of belligerent prodding that’s been trolling enemy comment sections of late? “So tell me, do you actually believe that black people are as smart as white people?”

    The intelligence that brought us here is better than that. Think of the men who were ahead of their time, knew they would be punished for it, and held back because they saw the inevitability of their conclusions.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    In sum: Imitate Success.

    “Right are the adults in civilization the Left are the children. ” Well, the children are winning. Every second of every day. Because they face no correction and only the meekest of challenges. 50 years of Temper Tantrums from Fags, barren spinster bitches and Thug Untermenschen is quite enough.

    And apparently Adult does not equal Man, because Men get things done. To Hell with Adults, and if God hates cowards they are indeed damned.

    “Think of the men who were ahead of their time, knew they would be punished* for it, and held back because they saw the inevitability of their conclusions.”

    I am. And nothing is inevitable. And Damn them all in this Life – where they were happy to leave everyone else – and in the Next for Cowardice.

    Enough.

    And what the recent Media encounters are leading to is this: you will fight and inflict enough pain to convince them to seek out the weak as prey or completely cave, no apology will be groveling enough. Pax groveled before Anil, and what mercy was granted him?

    * then again…what remarkably low thresholds for punishment.

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    “Well, the children are winning. Every second of every day. Because they face no correction and only the meekest of challenges. 50 years of Temper Tantrums from Fags, barren spinster bitches and Thug Untermenschen is quite enough.

    And apparently Adult does not equal Man, because Men get things done. To Hell with Adults, and if God hates cowards they are indeed damned.”

    Yes the children are winning, and the Right won’t fight. I’ve spent most of my life wondering why the Right won’t fight back.

    But that doesn’t mean we meet narcissistic rage with narcissistic rage. Weirmar Germany had a culture of narcissism before the fall. I would also describe the Reign of Terror as an explosion of Left wing narcissistic rage at reality for not conforming to their whims.

    Wot do?

    Maybe the solution is to eat the sate from the inside out like the Christians in ancient Rome. Maybe you’ll get your wish and the solution is more like how Israel was created, either in the time of Moses or in 1948. How did the American Founders keep the American Rebellion from exploding like the French Revolution?

    I’m not saying adults never use a kinetic solution, but when they do it is in the service of creating order not chaos. Think of a parent spanking a child.

    These women are what left wing narcissistic rage looks like:

    http://youtu.be/fOCD_T9Qqpc

    That’s not going to get to where we need to be.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    “gnostic and menacing high self-esteem” — I didn’t say narcissistic. The rage is overdue. If narcissism is the price for rage, then we should pay it.

    I’m actually pretty clear that it’s time to stop giving ground and start taking it.

    Providing it goes somewhere. As to why the Right [or decency] doesn’t fight, you’ve answered your own question. If however you are literally prepared to be eaten by Lions and all the rest, I can quite respect that. I can reasonably question both…but if you’ll be eaten by Lions while praying…

    Mind you it’s going nowhere of course without Constantine.

    Listen I can and would compel no one. However I’m mildly curious as to how you think anything will be accomplished. After the Fall of Roman Briton to the Saxons it was pretty rough for..about 400 years. Then Saxon King Alfred invited a bunch of intellectuals to a symposium on Truth and Beauty [as soon as the Vikings got off the respective Ladies] and then….

    No. Not what happens. Not what happened. Not what will ever happen.

    Which is of course a personal choice. Now expect to quite possibly receive blows if you continue to Stand for anything. That’s what “Standing” means. It might do the old self-esteem some good to inflict some blows.

    Mind you I’m getting pretty much what I want here, I’m watching an Antigen ever so improbably take over the Progs DNA and weaken their Intellectual Body Or Termites in the Cathedral if you like. That doesn’t get us home or even bring it down, but if the SuperBrains are revealed as frauds and all the young people seeing limited or no prospects in Cathedral worship..but there’s always a future in pillage…then something amazing has happened and I’ve lived to see it.

    I think people wanted to register a protest to be read by future scholars that some cried foul as civilization was murdered. Cried out but did not Act.

    Tough.Shit. Quite without Reaction or DEC large currents were quite in motion.

    And then improbably the Doomed Fools turned to this curious and insolent mold upon their official and reliably sterile dishes….

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    “Listen I can and would compel no one. However I’m mildly curious as to how you think anything will be accomplished.”

    First alternative institutions have to be in place and ready to go when the Modern Structure is replaced. One of the reasons the American Rebellion didn’t explode like the French Revolution is because the American rebels had built alternate institutions in the form of Colonial governments in the States ready to take over any power vacuum from the Crown. Whereas in France there were no ready made institutions that could take over for the government.

    So if a new Rebel army led by VXXC took down the Modern Structure tomorrow where are your alternate institutions ready to sweep into power? It’s not like conservatives have separate assemblies… actually that’s not a bad idea. Start creating separate parliaments in the States that would obviously right now have no political power but that could be used for coordination and would replace the existing assemblies when the Modern Structure is removed. I know it’s nerdy, but crypto-currencies like BitCoin or hell even American Eagles (I mean the gold & silver coins issued by the US Mint) could be used by conservatives as alternate currencies. Of course we’d also have to have groups that could provide martial services.

    From Nick Steves below:
    “In order for ACTION, everything… absolutely EVERYTHING, must be in place. A government that will actually work when activated must be completely formed.”

    This is a very good point I should have been more direct about earlier. Ripping things down with nothing on hand to replace them will leave us with… chaos, not order.

    Posted on December 6th, 2013 at 7:48 pm Reply | Quote
  • j. ont. Says:

    And what the recent Media encounters are leading to is this: you will fight and inflict enough pain to convince them to seek out the weak as prey or completely cave, no apology will be groveling enough.

    They will seek out everyone, not just the weak – if they seek us out at all. There will, under no circumstances, completely cave. Most likely they will lose interest, and we will be left to our own devices. Which is for the best – I’ve just been saddened by the ape circus that this past month has been.

    * then again…what remarkably low thresholds for punishment.

    I’m afraid I have a remarkably low threshold for death, as do you, as did the good men I’m referring to. Current punishments usually take the form of professional/social/political castration. If you’re cool with that, go for it. But I think most of us are more useful fed and clothed.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    If you will stand for nothing, then why seek trouble? I am unaware of Internet & Blog conscription.

    As to Castration……

    [Reply]

    j. ont. Reply:

    “stand for nothing”?

    It’s very simple: there are times when it is wise to make a public stand, and times when it is not. Idealism is neither admirable nor functional. Let’s try to take the long view (and most of the really great contributors around here are).

    But it may be that we have different goals, so I wish you the best.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 6th, 2013 at 8:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Nick B. Steves Says:

    In order for ACTION, everything… absolutely EVERYTHING, must be in place. A government that will actually work when activated must be completely formed. This means lots of currently serving colonels, hundreds of high-ranking permanent USG bureaucrats, scores of bank execs, hundreds of experienced PR and ad-men, and tens of thousands of absolutely loyal foot soldiers. The revolution wouldn’t be televised. And it wasn’t. The Reaction will have to be.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 12:01 am Reply | Quote
  • Vxxc Says:

    NBS you want DEC New Deal. Which you just described.

    Unlikely.

    Of course you just prescribed procrastinate until perfection.

    Not likely.

    We have little or none of that.

    Nor will we ever.

    We have our lives and our time and circumstance.

    This is not what is happening. Great currents were already in motion before an insolent Mold appeared on a previously sterile dish.

    We’ll get want God and men want. Not perfect and seamless change.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 1:26 am Reply | Quote
  • Vxxc Says:

    DECs part today seems to be: we’re noticed.

    Now pray for strength and courage and it comes.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 1:28 am Reply | Quote
  • Nick B. Steves Says:

    There are a great many politically feasible reforms that seem do-able. I doubt they’ll be much in the long run. As the culture and quality of Americans continues to degrade. If you want to kill the Cathedral it has to be With One Blow. Otherwise we’ll be eaten.

    I’m not looking for perfection. I’m just looking for a chance. We don’t have 1/100,000 of the org of the Nazis in 1922. And even they failed, even if for contigent reasons.

    [Reply]

    Kevin C. Reply:

    “If you want to kill the Cathedral it has to be With One Blow. Otherwise we’ll be eaten.”

    Indeed. But the Cathedral is still strong enough that any strike strong enough to take it down “With One Blow” is beyond what we can deliver, or can ever deliver. Thus, it is certain that “we’ll be eaten”

    “I’m not looking for perfection. I’m just looking for a chance.”

    Too bad we don’t have one.

    “We don’t have 1/100,000 of the org of the Nazis in 1922. And even they failed.”

    As shall we.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Who is saying Strike the Cathedral? Who is saying Beer Hall Putsch? Well…Starbucks Putsch.

    DEC can keep right like it’s going, undermining the Superbrains cult of the smart, which is founded on everyone nodding faster and faster that the naked Emperor has such a sharp crease in his pants. Bankruptcy and extremely low trust helps. As God Wills It, the Superbrains decided to engage. Now they’re leading people – they’re own flock – towards Moldbugs Machiavellian analysis of USG, towards HBDs believe your lying eyes, to the Church of Biology called “game”. The Cathedral has such lost sense of itself – indeed Moldbug may have given them sense of themselves beyond “all right thinking people who aren’t insane” …such a loss of their own natures that they’re trying to play Devils Advocate when The Cathedral is The Devil . Such folly is the Hand of God.

    Now if DEC is eaten, then they swallow poison.

    As far as having a chance, the enemy is doing all the work, all DEC has to do is relentlessly attack their open and inane follies.

    Really I’d rather defend any of Nick Land’s more outrageous wanderings than any article by Paul Krugman. Cardinal Krugman has impoverished a Billion People in their own lands, mostly middle class. And the kids of the Middle Class who see their chances are collectively ruined.

    If you’re actually worried, have the next meeting near One Police Plaza, I seem to remember an after hours bar on the back side of Gold. There’s usually something reliable on Water with a Shamrock of one sort or another. Better they know you than not…

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 3:04 am Reply | Quote
  • Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Says:

    @Vxxc

    “Of course you just prescribed procrastinate until perfection.”

    Not really. If you want the VXXC rebellion to start tomorrow it would be you and what army exactly? You’d still have to build that right?

    Srsly dude, you didn’t even have an answer to what I said above: if tomorrow you ripped down USG there would just be a power vacuum. Unless you want chaos there would have to be something to replace it.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    We are of course on the Internet…

    The Cathedral is bringing the party to all of us, and ripping down itself in it’s present form.

    They are bankrupt. Here is their money: XXYY00000000000000000000.

    As they have trapped most of the world in their engine of mutually and universally assured destruction …so they think…they can behave as they like. And so they do..

    They are operating also at bankrupt levels of mistrust, that is to say trust in them is also bankrupt.

    A gentler reading would be extraordinarly high levels of equilibrium with very high levels of mistrust.

    And this same system they both cannot back out of, and cannot stop bringing shocks to…for they all have their respective factions to pander to…the Repubs as well. They are not answering for instance to the voters, they are answering to the various factions around the Beltway and in Finance [list not all inclusive].

    As to the Military and Police..these are not tools to be wielded as say NSA and the other Alphabet soups. With rare exceptions most of them take their Oaths seriously [for which we may all be thankful], if these tools could be used they already would have. Besides which the Cathedral and these groups don’t at all like or trust each other.

    However I think we may have different POVs. I think – see above – chaos is inevitable.

    I think the people agree, they are arming.

    I think we are closer to the end of the epoch than perhaps we think or wish..and here we are at this particular tense moment…and the Cathedral has suddenly taken quite the interest in this most insolent mold growing on a previously reliable and sterile dish. They are foolish to call attention to such a dangerous development as penicillian to their own suite of rampant infections. It’s the Hand of God guiding them closer to their own destruction, which he could only more clearly demonstrate desire for with say a Bi-Coastal Earthquake or Tidal Wave. << I should mention hoping for same is not a plan.

    I'm not calling for DEC to storm the barricades [????]. I'm telling you where the world is going, and would be if none of us were ever born. In short the Singularity is upon us. You would be fortunate if there are barricades to shelter behind, never mind storm.

    Since I expect to be reprimanded now that Reactionaries don't want disorder…please don't bother. We don't get what we want. We all get what God and Men want.

    If you want a quiet life above all you could try Canada as closest refuge. Probably safest, left wing establishment or not their even more decent than our own midwest. It might not have enough distance.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 3:06 am Reply | Quote
  • Peter A. Taylor Says:

    At the risk of bringing chaos to Chaos Patch #6….

    How does the degenerative ratchet work in religion?

    Suppose that we have a mini-society with two Congregationalist churches. Toughlove Church places a heavy stigma on promiscuity, and Slutwalk Church regards free love as a sacrament. Maybe there is a third church, Forgiveness Church, that officially opposes promiscuity, but sells indulgences for $1.98 . Toughlove Church tries to promote a moral view that many find unintuitive. It’s members claim moral superiority over sluts, but the social science is in dispute, so in practice, this moral superiority is a credence good (difficult to verify), which they try to promote by trying to create an illusion of consensus. Slutwalk tries to create an illusion of consensus in the opposite direction.

    These churches exist in the same society, in the same political environment. Which set of views will be more popular? It’s hard to maintain an illusion of consensus contrary to the majority opinion of society. What causes the Toughlove and Slutwalk churches to remain doctrinally distinct from one another over time? Does one have an advantage over the other in terms of their views being easier to promote? Which one, and why? If they are no longer doctrinally distinct, do they remain organizationally distinct?

    There could be many controversial points of doctrine. Suppose that these churches remain organizationally and ritually distinct, and they both sometimes experiment with new doctrines, but they tend to copy the more popular doctrines from one another. What does that look like on a cladogram? Is the cladistics approach compatible with the view described by the Overton window? If not, which one is wrong?

    It there are a hundred issues, the overwhelming majority of newly-formed or reformed churches are likely to go along with the majority opinion on most of these controversial issues. This includes a mixture of doctrines with historically distinct origins. How do you plot this on a cladogram?

    My expectation, based on a little reading, is that more people will tend to want to join Toughlove Church than Forgiveness Church, but once they join, they will tend to drive it in the direction of becoming more like Forgiveness Church. Later, Forgiveness Church will close its doors and someone will start a new church that more closely resembles the original Toughlove Church. I don’t know how Slutwalk Church compares in this regard, but I expect it would grow and moderate like Toughlove, and then also be replaced. What is missing here?

    “Doctrine” is the wrong word. Toughlove and Forgiveness churches have the same official doctrine, but something deeper is different.

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    Who has the bigger guns though.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    Whoever wins elections has higher prestige. Whoever has higher prestige tends to be able to set social norms. (??) Marxism and its relatives have had higher prestige among trend setters than Christianity and its relatives because the former sound all sciency. I’m hoping that the tide is slowly beginning to turn, and people are realizing that the former are more screwed up than the latter on the issues that matter.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 2:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • Peter A. Taylor Says:

    There is a difference between saying, “I was infected through Typhoid Mary” versus saying, “Typhoid Mary is my mother.” My thinking on crypto-Calvinism is evolving (if you’ll pardon the expression). My current story is that the unit of analysis is wrong. We should be focusing on the disease, not on the vector.

    [Reply]

    Posted on December 7th, 2013 at 5:52 pm Reply | Quote

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