Crossing the Line

So, it’s happened:

This strikes me as a poly-dimensional crisis moment — or at least cultural storm signal — (for NRx, for Google, and for the USA), so I’m obviously on tenterhooks to hear what people think.

ADDED: The anti-Tunney (or one of them).

April 28, 2014admin 104 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Neoreaction , Pass the popcorn

TAGGED WITH : , , , ,

104 Responses to this entry

  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:

    The blind leading the confused doing the unnecessary is what immediately springs to mind. If the mental state of the progs is so… unsettled… as to be pushing traffic to MM, then, as Dennis Miller once predicted, “He who does not shit himself will be crowned King”– in the land of the progs, anyway.

    ALL HAIL KING ERIC OF HOUSE GOOG!

    [Reply]

    Wilhelm von Überlieferung Reply:

    Opportunism. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels once road on the coattails of Darwin’s Origin of Species in order to give their theories of dialectical materialism and class struggle an air of scientific legitimacy, however false it was.

    The noses of our progressive “friends” have caught wind of the the fragrant aromas emanating from the reactionary camp, and have thought how best to exploit the situation as the pendulum comes crashing back down in our direction.

    Remember, her motivation for running the USG like the tech industry isn’t to reverse the current direction the United States–and the West in general–is headed, but to accelerate that change.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    “… the the fragrant aromas emanating from the reactionary camp …” — I can see how they’d be irresistible.

    Your final paragraph is especially intriguing — there’s an accelerationist strategy at work here? Any further thoughts on the where that heads?

    [Reply]

    Wilhelm von Überlieferung Reply:

    There has been an accelerationist strategy in play, yes.

    However, the acceleration is more of a consequence of network effects and positive feedback loops. What truly becomes desirable then is in creating or taking ownership of new networks through which one can transmit ideology, raise monies, and grow your power base.

    Take for instance the growth of the ever loathsome tentacles of the Cathedral: Non-Government Organizations. Plotting out out the introduction of new NGOs since the end of the Second World War, you get something approaching an exponential curve.

    Now, given Tunney’s background, history and present-day rhetoric, it’s not hard to fathom what she means when she says “more prepared for change.” What has the progressive left always coveted? Well, I think they’re just useful idiots. So what then of the goals of the gate-keepers to the Cathedral? To that, there are many answers.

    Regardless, as you already are aware, when reactionary ideas gain more prominence and become more dangerous to the status quo, they will first become targets for ridicule and scorn. But when that fails, what follows?

    Tunney doesn’t strike me as particularly brilliant, but that’s not to say that her benefactors don’t know what they’re doing.

    lilith Reply:

    It leads here:
    https://vimeo.com/5841178

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 7:02 am Reply | Quote
  • spandrell Says:

    Not this bitch again.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 7:42 am Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    She wants to make war on the poor people,right?

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 8:30 am Reply | Quote
  • Erik Says:

    I think: Oh shit this is moving too fast we’re not ready.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 8:41 am Reply | Quote
  • Rasputin Says:

    It will pass.

    And ‘crocodile prayer’ is probably an even bigger turn off than usual for the uninitiated.

    [Reply]

    E.Antony Gray (RiverC) Reply:

    moldbug is nothing if not clever

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 9:27 am Reply | Quote
  • Driftforge Says:

    Occupy founder? Hmm. Without having come across the name before, I’d suggest that the NRx is likely to receive the same mixed attention that the rEVOLution got when Occupy was going, with a similar degree of crossover.

    Dissatisfied leftists — I was about to say young, but lets go with not as young as they once were — but looking for something more than the MSM is willing to conscience, tempered by having a movement usurped from their hands by the Cathedral.

    I’d say its a challenge because the ideological gap is somewhat greater, but not without potential deep minds that can make a contribution.

    Actually reading Mencius Moldbug remains a fairly consequential gate — I couldn’t think of a more gracious invitation for entry. I’d follow it up with a specific suggestion towards the appropriate posts.

    [Reply]

    Mai La Dreapta Reply:

    If you look at the twitter conversation, you’ll see that she got pointed to How Dawkins Got Pwned and Castes of the USA.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    What do you suggest as a good introduction to neoreaction? I’ve been using Scott Alexander’s “Nutshell” article. Is there something better?

    [Reply]

    James James Reply:

    Even though Alexander’s “Nutshell” is better than his “FAQ”, it still can’t give enough depth to be a really good introduction. I’d go for Moldbug’s “Open Letter”, or your “Gentle Introduction to Mencius Moldbug”.

    If an introduction needs to be short, before a person gets hooked, then perhaps the entry on the American Revolution in Gwern’s “Mistakes”.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    Thanks. Gwern’s piece is a nice little postcard from the dark side.

    admin Reply:

    Your own overview (filed in my Resources roll as Meta-Moldbug) is second to none.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    Thank you!

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 10:28 am Reply | Quote
  • SGW Says:

    Speaking of people on twitter crossing the line, the last two tweets of the pope were: “Inequality is the root of social evil.” and “None of us can think we are exempt from concern for the poor and for social justice ”

    https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/460697074585980928
    https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/459956679782576128

    If he was just talking about economic inequality or political inequality, it wouldn’t be that odd coming from this particular pope. But no, he condemns inequality in general, as head of one of the most resilient, if not the most resilient, hierarchical organization in existence, which I find slightly odd, even coming from him.

    I wonder what he thinks is the cause of inequality, God creating people differently, perhaps? Maybe it is inherent to the design of this universe due to God essentially being both the archetype of the 1% and the creator of everything? It could be that Mozes accidentally forgot to note, due to his inherently sinful nature, the 11th commandment of thou shalt have an inheritance tax of 100% and a minimum tax on wealth of 2.5%.

    Regardless, the logical Catholic solution to the problem of inequality would be for God to check his privilege , All inequality on earth pales in comparison to the power-imbalance between God and us humans, so it would be best to start there. Who cares if he created the universe. The taxes I pay are used to maintain the roads His followers use to get to church and for the protection of His houses of worship, so he has no valid reason for not paying his fair-share.

    While we are at it, it would be a good idea to turn heaven into a republic, and not one of those republics with weighed voting, that would just be prejudiced. It would also be necessary to reinstate the devil to his previous position, because he was justified in refusing to kneel on the legal basis of egalitarianism. Amends should be made, and reparations paid, for his unjustified dismissal. Lastly the Catholic church should do away with its professional priestly class. It has done nothing but support a chimera worth of privileges in the nearly two millennia of its existence, so it is time for it to go.

    This would be the only right (Progressive, Jacobin, Whig and Protestant) thing to do. PERIOD.

    [Reply]

    Alex Reply:

    Sign of the times.

    [Reply]

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    I’m not religious, but the pope does seem to answer directly to Satan

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 12:43 pm Reply | Quote
  • Thales Says:

    Moldbug? They’ll never make it past the 2,734th paragraph — you know, where it starts getting good…

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Coming out of left field to direct one of the world’s most dynamic promotional exercises to Read Moldbug has to create some kind of significant disturbance in the force.

    [Reply]

    Thales Reply:

    The Borg have already assimilated MM and built tl;dr/copy-pasta-link-to-SA antibodies last year. It’s over. All they’re ever gonig to do, all they can do, is pick at “monarchy” and “neo-cammeralism”, which NRx has already moved beyond — can’t even get a decent flame-war out of it. The dogpiling has ended, Tunney has served her purpose to the memeplex years ago and is now irrelevant.

    On the very slim chance you’re having visions of Proggies en masse reading MM and having some massive relevlation/meltdown like Jim Taggart at the end of Atlas Shrugged, forget it. Man is not rational; he rationalises. Ideas are secondary. Philosophers play catch-up (sorry, admin, not going to insult you by sugar-coating that one.)

    [Reply]

    peppermint Reply:

    proggies en masse? No. We just need the smart ones to understand that if they want to have nice things they need good government, and the gravy train of progressivism is almost out of steam.

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 1:29 pm Reply | Quote
  • Xenolith Says:

    As shallow as a puddle and as thick as a 2×4?!

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 1:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • iParallax Says:

    /popcorn

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 1:59 pm Reply | Quote
  • Lattice Says:

    Tell me, what are the odds of culture makers infecting NRx w/ a cryptoleftist rootkit?

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    the way I hear it, NRx is already infected with a crypoleftist rootkit.

    The reposte I assume is that that rootkit is itself infected with a reactionary virus.

    All seems highly dangerous. Handle with care.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 2:03 pm Reply | Quote
  • Mai La Dreapta Says:

    @Lattice

    The odds are trivial. We’re all carriers of progressive memes, having grown up in a culture where they are endemic. If NRx is capable of withstanding this infection, then it will stand, and if it’s not, then it’s already doomed whether the progs decide to attack us directly or not.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Perfectly stated.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 2:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • Eric Jacobus Says:

    He’s a transsexual. It ain’t happening unless he decides he wants a kid, then you’ll see him become a dude overnight and a real champion for NRx. But by then he’ll be out of the Progressive game entirely, which makes him just another free radical among us. It’s binary.

    [Reply]

    Alfred Reply:

    Can he have kids? I wasn’t sure if he/she/it was dude dressed as chick or dude who tried to go to the hospital to make them dress his body as chick. I figured Tunney was too far gone (post op) to actually be any use to us now. I don’t know. I make assumptions. At any rate, I stand by my belief that this “infiltration” is harmless, as I believe we are vaccinated.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    ” It ain’t happening …” — well, some kind of media migraine is happening, isn’t it? Seems to me NRx can enjoy the commotion without responsibility. There’s simply no way JT is going to try and wear the NRx label (is there?), so we get the Moldbug promo — and ensuing Cathedral-core chaos — for free.

    [Reply]

    Eric Jacobus Reply:

    I enjoy watching Cathedral chaos like anyone. It’s the reshuffling afterward which bothers me. Since he’s a tranny, they might just let it go and chalk it up to “curiosity”, so long as he grows out of it and becomes a woman, ya know?

    [Reply]

    Alfred Reply:

    That’s what I’m saying. Just put on your bunny slippers and get out some popcorn. We got some Cathedral infighting super-drama to watch; and it’s all over us. It’ll be fun to watch, and kinda nice to know we’re the source.

    [Reply]

    Tammi Reply:

    Where? I don’t seem them giving us any attention over this. They are ignoring us.

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alfred Says:

    I doubt Tunney has quite come over to the Dark side quite yet, however the simple introduction of Moldbug to the consciousness of these confused and alienated perpetual youths may actually shift some of them to more realistic thinking. My take is that Tunney doesn’t know what she’s found quite yet and that she simply believes she’s found some novelty of thinking. I’m not at all worried that the leftists will co-op or infiltrate NRx either. The left and NRx are oil and water. They may even learn to tolerate much of NRx in attempts to gain control. But we’ve hall had the red pill; we know what they look like and what they sound like, because we’ve been there before. No, this “line crossing” is neither a boon nor a curse for us; it’s simply an amusing aside.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hurlock Says:

    Does anyone here think it’s a coincidence that at the same time when Scott Alexander says NRx is becoming hipster an Occuppy Wall St. starts reading Moldbug?

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    My guess is it’s more a matter of the elite cultural tide than direct influence (but it is just a guess). Progressivism has become so mindless it has begun boring even it’s most ardent supporters to death.

    [Reply]

    Konkvistador Reply:

    Being popular is epistemically unhealthy. If we are becoming hip among the intelligentsia expect us to diverge from reality since they have terrible incentives for truth seeking. #gnoniswatching

    [Reply]

    Alfred Reply:

    We’ve got to find a way to make ourselves uncool again; and fast!

    admin Reply:

    “Being popular is epistemically unhealthy.” — Agreed … but. Memetic contamination of the Cathedral core seems wholly positive.

    peppermint Reply:

    I’m not feeling threatened by popularity, because last week at my school there were people handing out stickers that you’re supposed to put on your backpack to take a stand against racism. But when popularity comes, we should decide whether or not someone is telling the truth based on whether or not they are telling the truth.

    It’s much less difficult with Wikipedia. Even though Wikipedia has some skewed perspectives and missing information about important issues.

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • Nick B. Steves Says:

    (hoping this embeds)

    [tweet 460554967838097408]

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Just looking at the code in the back-end I knew it wouldn’t — assuming you tried the usual embed tweet method? (I’ve not yet seen a tweet embedded in a comment before — I think anywhere.)

    [Reply]

    Nick B. Steves Reply:

    Nope. Probably not. The link (FWIW) is: https://twitter.com/Nick_B_Steves/status/460554967838097408

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • MW Says:

    I remember reading on Aimless’s blog a while ago that if the Right wants its ideas promulgated it needs women (or in this case, whatever that “thing” is) to do it. Guys just end up being labeled as “nazis” as soon as they get anywhere close to talking about What Needs Doing. More of a tactical decision than anything else.

    [Reply]

    Hurlock Reply:

    So…we need a man who pretends to be a woman!! Brilliant!

    [Reply]

    MW Reply:

    Well, if I were being choosy, I’d say it’d be great to find a real woman to say all these things — but anything will do that doesn’t automatically trigger people’s White Male Oppressor sensors, I suppose.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    WE HAVE HBDCHICK

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    HBDChick isn’t as good as Tunney for that job.

    Tunney is perfect for playing the part of liberal-facing NRXy ideological chaos girl because, being trans, she can’t can’t be criticized by progressives as a white male geek, even though that’s exactly what she is neurologically. Finding the right kind of woman to serve as traditionalist-facing NRxy ideological chaos girl is going to be difficult because the right kind of woman isn’t going to have that so-important white male geek neurology.

    Alfred Reply:

    Being a trans-mutant he/she/it should makes Tunney’s input be perceived as even more valuable. Y’know, cuz tolerance.

    [Reply]

    lilith Reply:

    Trans women tend to have very different neurologies from men, in fact many tend to be neuroatypical(commonly ASD). We don’t have an entirely white male geek neurology. I say “we” because I am a trans woman myself, and speak from personal experience. That is not to say we couldn’t be productive toward NRx causes.

    Quite frankly the only reason I have yet to fully cross to the Dark side is NRx’s hang ups with having dialogue with people who are defecting from the Cathedral, yet are precisely its objects of focus(i.e. LGBT people). Many are dissatisfied with leftist/activist LGBT politics hence why people like Tunney and I are here. Many traditional societies allowed us to exist as second class women and/or sages of some sort, that is, we were functional within a greater social scheme. No need to put us completely in the Dark (or worse, kill/abuse/torture us), no enforcement of our modes of being unto the rabble. NRx shouldn’t drop the ball like the Brits did with Turing, queers may excel in areas normal men don’t (hit me up if NRx needs aesthetes, we know seduction). The real issue is deterritorializing queerness from its current social justice warrior forms.

    MW Reply:

    Yeah, plus I think it’s important for the HBD-crowd to remain not-heavily-political (or heterogeneously political). Then again, I have a strong preference for the acknowledgment of group differences (or “reality” as it’s sometimes called) over whatever political, economic, or religious system ends-up getting put into place.

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:41 pm Reply | Quote
  • Tammi Says:

    Tunney has been wearing the NRx brand for a while, and the fact that you guys just noticed shows bad form. He/she is into prediction markets and believes that NRx is the next big thing.

    Of course JT is a tranny, and nobody wants to look bad displaying trans-discrimination. Therefore the Cathedral will not cover this story. They do not want to be trans-oppressors.

    Also, he/she is a troll, and they do not want to be responsible for bringing this to 4chan.

    Coverage is the reactosphere is the same thing as masturbation. This is a big nothing.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Oh for crying out loud. The only “same thing as masturbation” is masturbation. If people can’t make a point without half-witted vulgarity I’m going to start axing them for lowering the tone.

    [Reply]

    Mr. Archenemy Reply:

    Well, so much for all MY future comments!

    [Reply]

    Tammi Reply:

    Apologies for offending. It’s just that a tranny working for Google joined NRx in a forrest and the Cathedral didn’t make a sound.

    [Reply]

    Ademonos Reply:

    /pol/ has been making a fuss about NRx for a long while now – under which rock have you been living?

    [Reply]

    MW Reply:

    This individual’s entire comment is wrong. JT has already gotten mainstream press exposure, NRx is on 4chan, NRx is the next big thing. Maybe it’s just a lousy attempt at trolling.

    [Reply]

    Tammi Reply:

    JT writing a petition got mainstream press attention. Not JT joining NRx. Nobody wants to get their hands dirty with this stuff.

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    I rarely see NRx on /pol/. It certainly exists, but is nowhere near as popular as “muh jews”, or any other topic for that matter. If you made a list of things frequently discussed on /pol/, NRx would be near the bottom.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 3:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Actually this was interesting “Why can’t we have a @Pontifex that wants to kill godless spaniards, just like the good ol’ days?” From Tunney. Miss us do ye Proddy’s? You should. There’s a reason we burnt error at the stake. We understand Chaos, we rode through and rose from the Dark Ages.

    [PS should I be worried that I can’t spot Tranny’s? Probably not I suppose].

    I want you all to understand that this is what’s on the Cathedral’s walls. And fuck it seems even this is there for the next big thing/paying NGO job/opportunism.

    THAT. that’s what’s on the walls. The most formidable Captains they have are in Finance, the RU mob is punking them before the world, and these Formidable Lords of FINANCE are about as impressive personally as Sterling the Divorce Lawyer turned Baller team owner. That’s the you can fuck em but don’t show them in public Magnate of Basketball.

    That’s what’s in your way. Other than yourselves of course.

    [Reply]

    Nick B. Steves Reply:

    Hafta get my Tranny-dar AND my Jew-dar checked…

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 4:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ademonos Says:

    It is our view that hipsters are essential for the success of any political current. Some relevant links regarding fashion and counter-signalling were posted in a comments section earlier. NRx is fashion (fascion?). Those who promote NRx right now are early adopters, who by virtue of having read (at least important parts of) the canon, are making bets with good odds and high returns on the success of reactionary thought relatively soon.
    One thing, though: NRx cannot go on like you are right now, keeping with the flow, dancing and clapping whenever the Cathedral writes a piece on it. A draft for a solid propaganda plan needs to be drafted. We’ve got the talent, we’ve got the ideas – but the plan? It’s the hardest but most important part. If things don’t start happening soon, I will travel around to universities and slap up stickers with various QR links.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 5:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • Nick B. Steves Says:

    Read Jim on trannies. I concur.

    Justine has many radical ideas, and, in spite of the power that “she” and all sexual minorities have received from the liberal establishment, seeks to overthrow it. “She” is at least useful, tho’ I fear “she” is going to be in for a very bad surprise when (or if) power really gets returned to “the people”.

    What’s really, REALLY weird about trannies I think is that sexual preference is quite hard (no pun intended) in adult men, quite elastic in women. So a gay trans-woman has sexual preference for men that is probably quite a bit more ingrained than that found in the average, happily married mother of 4.

    Yeah and Justine passes. So “she” wins. (I guess.)

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 5:26 pm Reply | Quote
  • Konkvistador Says:

    Two men walked at a distance. The one on the left said “I shall make one step rightward.”, he did do so. The man on the right was greatly elated. He took two steps to his left. They remained at the same distance as before. #reactionarykoans

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 6:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • low income low status low brow juvenile reader Says:

    She/he/it said on twitter that she/he/it dated a guy in 2012 who was into NR …

    So…

    Who was it…

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 9:44 pm Reply | Quote
  • Handle Says:

    More Speckle: Six Word Stories

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Really, a story in six words?
    This is going faster than imagined.
    Have to go tweet that immediately.

    [Reply]

    low income low status low brow juvenile reader Reply:

    The 6 word story comes from Hemmingway, who entered a bar bet that he could write a novel in under 10 words

    “For sale, baby shoes, never worn”

    It’s pretty cool, imo

    [Reply]

    Piano Reply:

    Better ones: http://www.reddit.com/r/sixwordstories/top/?sort=top&t=all

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 10:23 pm Reply | Quote
  • northanger Says:

    Calm your cultural storm signal until Snoop Dogg responds. That would be definitive.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 28th, 2014 at 10:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • MuskoX Says:

    Are you guys serious? She’s got a penis?

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 29th, 2014 at 1:30 am Reply | Quote
  • Karl F. Boetel Says:

    What would Carlyle do?

    This is always the question I ask myself.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 29th, 2014 at 2:46 am Reply | Quote
  • Initial Reactions | One Irradiated Watson Says:

    […] http://www.xenosystems.net/crossing-the-line/ […]

    Posted on April 29th, 2014 at 6:02 am Reply | Quote
  • Contaminated NEET Says:

    I guess I’m just not “with it” enough; I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Who or what is this Justine Tunney creature?

    [Reply]

    Wilhelm von Überlieferung Reply:

    Don’t worry, you aren’t missing much.

    Whatever it is, it has lost the respect to be called a man. She displays the usual narcissistic personality traits typical of someone who has been ostracized during childhood as a result of their own personal short-comings and ineptitude. Quite common among liberal progressive types, really. Unstable and not to be trusted. Although, useful for some entertainment if trollingdebating progressives is your thing.

    As far as her history is concerned, she likes to pretend that she organized Occupy Wall Street.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 29th, 2014 at 8:34 am Reply | Quote
  • Foseti Says:

    If you read Moldbug, you can see how his writing is designed to not immediately repel someone like Ms Tunney. I think that’s a very important aspect of his writing and a good strategy.

    The proprietor of this establishment excluded, the other “big” writers in the new neoreactionary movement seem to be pursuing a different strategy, wherein they seem to be writing in such a manner that ensures that any non-reactionaries (and even some reactionaries, if I’m any indication) are immediately repelled by their writing after reading a few sentences.

    Personally, I think this strategy is a big downgrade, but apparently I’ve missed something important.

    [Reply]

    Contemplationist Reply:

    When are we getting Part 2 of your series?

    [Reply]

    Foseti Reply:

    I’m getting crushed by part 2 and rather discouraged by the latest wave of neoreaction.

    [Reply]

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    What is the current lameness of NRx?

    Alrenous Reply:

    It was tediously easy to predict the latter problem. Why didn’t you try to preempt it?

    Karl F. Boetel Reply:

    yep

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    With Foseti 100%. I try to write my reviews to be as minimally repellant as possible without compromising integrity or diluting the intended purpose. It’s tough sometimes, because the problem is that inconvenient facts are ugly truths, which are repellant by their nature, and in a way which is constantly evolving. But it’s not that hard to discover the optimally balancing ‘Tunney-Point’, especially if you are close to more than a few progressives in one’s normal life.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 29th, 2014 at 12:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • lilith Says:

    On second though, I might add that we suffer a great deal from ideological chaos.

    I wonder if they do:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 30th, 2014 at 5:59 am Reply | Quote
  • ErisGuy Says:

    Good luck with reading Moldbug. His posts are organized by date.

    Google has been thoroughly trashed by—well, what exactly?—with phony imitation domains “unqualifiedreservationss” (note the extra plurality) and copies at non-existance domains.

    Someone must really hate him.

    [Reply]

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    moldbuggery.blogspot.com is the only way to approach it.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 30th, 2014 at 10:23 am Reply | Quote
  • Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Says:

    This isn’t surprising. Why should a wealthy liberal transsexual who works for Google feel uncomfortable with the techno-commercialist wing of neo-reaction? That wing is, after all, admittedly liberal.

    The masses are not the driving force behind the normalization of homosexuality and transsexualism and the efforts to encourage more people to become homosexuals and transsexuals. The masses are a force that slows down those trends, by voting for amendments to define marriage as between a man and a woman and other such retrograde nonsense.

    It is elites who are the driving force behind the normalization of homosexuality and transsexualism and the efforts to encourage more people to become homosexuals and transsexuals. Neo-cameralism would empower those elites and make it easier for them to implement their favored policies without all the bullshit they have to through now.

    The result, more efficient implementation of the liberal elite agenda.

    Tunney is not an elite but she has established a role for herself as a sort of court jester or toady. So she’ll be fine in the transition to neo-cameralism and she’ll get to see a more efficient implementation of liberalism.

    Erich Schmidt is not going to start persecuting trannies just because he becomes CEO of America. Far from it. But if the Tea Party were to take over using their mountain of guns, people like Tunney would find themselves in a very uncomfortable situation.

    People do recognize that the current situation is unsustainable, they just don’t see a way out that sustains the unsustainable stuff they want to see sustained. Neo-cameralism makes sense as a way to a) stay liberal and b) make the current situation more sustainable. It makes sense for thinking liberals to pivot to neo-cameralism.

    But a lot of us won’t like the way it turns out.

    [Reply]

    handle Reply:

    And would you start ‘persecuting trannies’ if you were CEO?

    [Reply]

    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    That depends. How you define the term “persecute”? The new way or the old way?

    I am quite concerned about current policies that make it possible for trans-advocates to use the public schools to proselytize to other people’s children from a young age.

    A significant number of people would consider ending that practice to be “persecution of transsexuals” just as a significant number of people consider anything that has a disparate impact to be “racism”.

    But I’m not suggesting that we need to do anything mean to trannies if that’s what you’re talking about. Trannies ultimately aren’t significant, unless your son happens to become one.

    [Reply]

    Izak Reply:

    @Saddam etc

    Thank you so very much for taking the time to write out pretty much my exact viewpoint on neocameralism to a tee. And with far better wording and argumentation than I could be bothered to provide.

    admin Reply:

    Why wouldn’t negotiated territorial disintegration deal with all of these NRx fission issues? At the level of poly-secessionism, I’m not at all seeing where the problems are.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    Exactly. And it wouldn’t even have to be disintegration.
    A single hotel conglomerate runs many tiers of different hotel experience, and there’s no reason a single governance corporation couldn’t successfully run a multitude of little polities according the rules that maximize the welfare of their respective inhabitants.

    What SHWAT misses is this idea that the elites have to either believe in or like the products they are selling – that is, communities dedicated to particular visions of life (which I call ‘zions’). As if when neocameralist managers get control, they will just obey their own progressive preferences even if those are at odds with the needs and wants of their residents. It’s not true, every deviation is money they are leaving on the table for a competitor to pick up. It’s the race to the bottom of ideological distortions.

    The management of most mass-market consumer products companies never partake in their own output, and may even find it disgusting and revolting, but who cares? Their job is to satisfy their customers, and at doing that, they are demonstrably excellent even when they have zero appreciation for what they are producing, or zero similarity between themselves and their typical consumer.

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    This is stupid.

    NC wouldn’t push sexual deviancy.

    Pushing sexual deviancy makes people mad and uncomfortable and destabilizes the foundation of society. People would leave and incentives would get fucked and profits would fall.

    Sexual deviancy is pushed by elite Brahmins as a class-war tactic against Vaisyas. The Vaisyas dislike it because tradition and culture and because the Brahmins are behind it, and the Brahmins like it because the Vaisyas don’t. The actual deviants probably don’t give a shit either way as long as they’re not being actively victimized.

    See Tunney’s “Liberals Hate Gay People”.

    I don’t see why deviants should be persecuted at all in an ordered society. Suppressed and discouraged and kept out of official positions, sure, but it doesn’t do anyone any good to beat up on a few weirdos.

    [Reply]

    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    “NC wouldn’t push sexual deviancy.

    Pushing sexual deviancy makes people mad and uncomfortable and destabilizes the foundation of society. People would leave and incentives would get fucked and profits would fall.”

    In *theory* neo-cameralism wouldn’t push sexual deviancy *if* neo-cameralism were implemented in a world where elites were not already inclined to regard sexual deviancy as praiseworthy.

    But this is not that world. This is a world where the elites who would be empowered by neo-cameralism are already progressive. This is a world where Mozilla [1] doesn’t feel at all concerned about offending the huge numbers of their users who are homo-skeptical Christians, but feels desperately unclean when it is discovered that their CEO once supported a referendum that passed (but was, thankfully, overruled by liberal elites). The backlash from firing Eich the way they did was far worse than it had to be, but it was totally worth it for the moral status points.

    And the reality is that intellectuals rarely get to see their ideal authoritarian system of government implemented in practice with all of the features intact. You say “neo-cameralism”, Tunney hears a call to “Appoint Eric Schmidt CEO of America.”

    And here[2] is what Tunney thinks motivates the people at Google:

    “Tech companies expropriate ad money from capitalists to build a superintelligence & don’t pay dividends!”

    “Silicon Valley is firmly post-capitalist. There just isn’t a name for it yet, nor an intellectual assmt.”

    “Because they play by a completely new set of rules. Why offer $4b for an app that doesn’t make money?”

    “These companies simply cannot be understood, using a framework made to describe industrial robber barons”

    “I’m defending the geeks who write lots of code, build awesome services, and then give away for free.”

    Tunney agrees: Google elites are not motivated exclusively by profit. Of course they’re not.

    So what exactly is the practical effect of transferring power to the people at Google? Are their non-monetary motives likely to be reactionary? Or are they likely to be progressive / liberal?

    While intellectuals don’t usually get to see their ideal systems implemented with all the features intact, they can help to legitimize trends that are already ongoing. Thus, the practical effect of preaching neo-cameralism may be to legitimize trends towards (formal or informal) corporate rule that are already ongoing. Which may allow allow a progressive tinged liberalism to sustain itself far longer than would be possible if it were still subject to the massive inefficiency that comes from being chained to the corpse of democracy.

    Thus making neo-cameralism a pro-establishment force to sustain liberalism and a godsend for people like Tunney.

    P.S. Sexual deviancy has already been successfully pushed and very, very few people left America over it.

    P.P.S. It’s not just as simple as co-opting an existing elite. Elites aren’t passive in this regard. As you co-opt an elite it may also co-opt you. And it has more goodies to hand out.

    [1] Admittedly, not organized quite the same way as Google.
    [2]http://storify.com/frkbmb/03

    [Reply]

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Interesting.

    Some of our host’s comments have been consistent with NRx as the next iteration of progressivism, not as a step away from the ratchet.

    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    Ok you win. I’m convinced.

    Wilhelm von Überlieferung Reply:

    Nicely distilled thoughts on this matter, and ones I agree with.

    We haven’t fully entered the final act of “Enlightenment” civilization, although the curtain may be half raised.

    Instead of Neo-Cameralism emerging from the ashes of modernity to usher in a new beginning, it most likely would be consumed as a halmark of a Neo-Ceaserism to reign over the dying empire, before the whole thing sinks into the abyss.

    Posted on April 30th, 2014 at 3:17 pm Reply | Quote
  • lilith Says:

    I don’t see why acknowledging the “reality” of these differences would be incompatible with HBD politics. Trans women are unable to reproduce(hormone therapy is basically chemical castration after enough time on it) and neither can gay men/women as long as access to surrogates and adoption rights are revoked. In fact some of us reject the notion of equality, and acknowledge our differences for what they are, dark deviations. It is far more stressful to have to meld our lifestyles into the mainstream, than exist in a society that does not condone us but allows us to exist in our own separate spheres.

    Queers should be allowed Exit strategies(toward underground cultures or religious positions like eunuchs), otherwise they may end up closeted, marrying and having kids, and passing the genes no less.

    [Reply]

    Posted on April 30th, 2014 at 9:42 pm Reply | Quote
  • Tammi Says:

    This actually has me thinking.

    Why don’t we all become women so we can do better in this economy? Everyone loves a woman who knows how to code. It’s instant millionaire status.

    That’s probably why Justine did it. We should follow her lead.

    [Reply]

    Posted on May 1st, 2014 at 12:23 am Reply | Quote
  • MW Says:

    @Saddam Hussein’s Whirling Aluminium Tubes

    Lesser Bull raises a very good point:

    1. The only way to save liberal modernity is to acknowledge HBD.
    2. The only way to save HBD is to make sure that it’s not solely the province of WNs.

    [Reply]

    Posted on May 1st, 2014 at 1:40 pm Reply | Quote
  • Aquatard Says:

    Total poseur—I wish she’d just stfu and stop tweeting already. Wait—would the cathedral ever roast a gelding on the spit?!

    [Reply]

    Posted on May 2nd, 2014 at 4:33 am Reply | Quote
  • Social Conservatism and Drawing a Line in the Sand | More Right Says:

    […] It reminds me of that time when Nick Land got excited that Justin Tunney told his followers to go read Moldbug, and the legendary neoreactionary commenter “Saddam Hussein’s Whirling Aluminum […]

    Posted on May 29th, 2014 at 1:17 pm Reply | Quote

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