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	<title>Comments on: Evo Psych Ward</title>
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	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Lightning Round &#8211; 2014/07/16 &#124; Free Northerner</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-80188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lightning Round &#8211; 2014/07/16 &#124; Free Northerner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2014 05:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-80188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] On the ENR. Related: Dialogues on  evo-psych and Kevin MacDonald. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] On the ENR. Related: Dialogues on  evo-psych and Kevin MacDonald. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Zerg</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-80006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zerg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-80006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, well put.  But in any case the evidence doesn&#039;t support the claim that Jews generally want nationhood for themselves alone and &quot;universalism&quot; for everyone else.  Those Jews who oppose non-Jewish nationhood also tend to oppose Jewish nationhood; pro-immigration Jews tend not to care very much about Judaism and Israel.  Religious Zionists like the American Tea Party and vice-versa.  Jewish radio guys Mark Levin and Michael Savage are anti-immigration and pro-Israel.  Left-wing, anti-American Jews are anti-Israel and usually hate Judaism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, well put.  But in any case the evidence doesn&#8217;t support the claim that Jews generally want nationhood for themselves alone and &#8220;universalism&#8221; for everyone else.  Those Jews who oppose non-Jewish nationhood also tend to oppose Jewish nationhood; pro-immigration Jews tend not to care very much about Judaism and Israel.  Religious Zionists like the American Tea Party and vice-versa.  Jewish radio guys Mark Levin and Michael Savage are anti-immigration and pro-Israel.  Left-wing, anti-American Jews are anti-Israel and usually hate Judaism.</p>
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		<title>By: Izak</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Izak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 18:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That Slate discussion is a classic!

I agree with Daniel Schmuhl about Pinker&#039;s attempt at refuting MacDonald. It&#039;s weak. It&#039;s very weak. He only comes to a half-decent point for #4 (as in, half of the point is valid), and it&#039;s not even that good.

I have problems with MacDonald&#039;s thesis myself, and no one seems to have made this point, so I&#039;ll go ahead and make it: he does a terrible job at explaining the role of deception in what he sees as Jewish evolutionary strategy.

He chalks up a lot of Jewish-universalist hypocrisy to &quot;self-deception,&quot; but he never goes really into what self-deception actually means. He only provides a few perfunctory citations of Lerner and some other guys. This is a serious question, and I think it&#039;s the core of what John Derbyshire is trying to say when he questions whether a &quot;group evolutionary strategy&quot; is a valid concept at all. The question is so important because it provides an insight into whether Jewish &quot;evolutionary strategy&quot; is conscious or not conscious. And if it isn&#039;t a conscious plan, then how could such a long-lasting group of people evolve to have such extremely low introspection? If I&#039;m going around saying everyone else needs to be a universalist except for me, and I&#039;m not consciously aware of it, then wouldn&#039;t that make me the least self-aware person ever? The Jews aren&#039;t low on self-awareness, if anything they&#039;re very self-aware about what&#039;s going on in their minds, at least on an individual level. Who is more introspective than someone like Woody Allen? 

You never really get to the bottom of this question with MacDonald, and he seems allergic to theorizing about it. He doesn&#039;t even really discuss the mechanics of it. How does the mind deceive itself? And this is a shame, because he constantly talks about Jewish self-deception. It&#039;s a key component to his theory of their strategy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Slate discussion is a classic!</p>
<p>I agree with Daniel Schmuhl about Pinker&#8217;s attempt at refuting MacDonald. It&#8217;s weak. It&#8217;s very weak. He only comes to a half-decent point for #4 (as in, half of the point is valid), and it&#8217;s not even that good.</p>
<p>I have problems with MacDonald&#8217;s thesis myself, and no one seems to have made this point, so I&#8217;ll go ahead and make it: he does a terrible job at explaining the role of deception in what he sees as Jewish evolutionary strategy.</p>
<p>He chalks up a lot of Jewish-universalist hypocrisy to &#8220;self-deception,&#8221; but he never goes really into what self-deception actually means. He only provides a few perfunctory citations of Lerner and some other guys. This is a serious question, and I think it&#8217;s the core of what John Derbyshire is trying to say when he questions whether a &#8220;group evolutionary strategy&#8221; is a valid concept at all. The question is so important because it provides an insight into whether Jewish &#8220;evolutionary strategy&#8221; is conscious or not conscious. And if it isn&#8217;t a conscious plan, then how could such a long-lasting group of people evolve to have such extremely low introspection? If I&#8217;m going around saying everyone else needs to be a universalist except for me, and I&#8217;m not consciously aware of it, then wouldn&#8217;t that make me the least self-aware person ever? The Jews aren&#8217;t low on self-awareness, if anything they&#8217;re very self-aware about what&#8217;s going on in their minds, at least on an individual level. Who is more introspective than someone like Woody Allen? </p>
<p>You never really get to the bottom of this question with MacDonald, and he seems allergic to theorizing about it. He doesn&#8217;t even really discuss the mechanics of it. How does the mind deceive itself? And this is a shame, because he constantly talks about Jewish self-deception. It&#8217;s a key component to his theory of their strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 16:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;1. By stating that Jews promulgate scientific hypotheses because they are Jewish, he is engaging in ad hominem argumentation that is outside the bounds of normal scientific discourse and an obvious waste of time to engage.

...

3. MacDonald’s various theses, even if worthy of scientifically debate individually, collectively add up to a consistently invidious portrayal of Jews, couched in value-laden, disparaging language.&quot;

At least he separated these with a point in between.

&quot;1. MacDonald&#039;s argument implies that Jews are unlikely [among other things] to give his argument a fair hearing because that would not be good for the Jews&quot;
&quot;3. I refuse to engage with MacDonald&#039;s argument because he says bad things about the Jews.&quot;

Well, case closed then.

Anti-anti-semitism has a habit of making bad arguments that make anti-semitism look good - anti-anti-semities should really think about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;1. By stating that Jews promulgate scientific hypotheses because they are Jewish, he is engaging in ad hominem argumentation that is outside the bounds of normal scientific discourse and an obvious waste of time to engage.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>3. MacDonald’s various theses, even if worthy of scientifically debate individually, collectively add up to a consistently invidious portrayal of Jews, couched in value-laden, disparaging language.&#8221;</p>
<p>At least he separated these with a point in between.</p>
<p>&#8220;1. MacDonald&#8217;s argument implies that Jews are unlikely [among other things] to give his argument a fair hearing because that would not be good for the Jews&#8221;<br />
&#8220;3. I refuse to engage with MacDonald&#8217;s argument because he says bad things about the Jews.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, case closed then.</p>
<p>Anti-anti-semitism has a habit of making bad arguments that make anti-semitism look good &#8211; anti-anti-semities should really think about that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: P</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 12:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s amusing that because of the Zizek thing, Hornbeck&#039;s pithy and accurate summary of MacDonald&#039;s argument is now plastered all over the liberal and leftist websites. MacDonald must love it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amusing that because of the Zizek thing, Hornbeck&#8217;s pithy and accurate summary of MacDonald&#8217;s argument is now plastered all over the liberal and leftist websites. MacDonald must love it.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an argument this time, rather than merely a warmed-over Stalinist propaganda campaign, which is nice. But yes, there&#039;s an awful lot hidden in that locked-up &quot;complex adaptations&quot; black box. Or rather, there&#039;s an lot implicitly hidden in it, which isn&#039;t really there at all. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s any real suggestion in the HBD camp that variety among &quot;complex adaptations&quot; is the issue -- which leaves a vast amount of significant variety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an argument this time, rather than merely a warmed-over Stalinist propaganda campaign, which is nice. But yes, there&#8217;s an awful lot hidden in that locked-up &#8220;complex adaptations&#8221; black box. Or rather, there&#8217;s an lot implicitly hidden in it, which isn&#8217;t really there at all. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any real suggestion in the HBD camp that variety among &#8220;complex adaptations&#8221; is the issue &#8212; which leaves a vast amount of significant variety.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My remark wasn&#039;t meant as a critique of Pinker. There&#039;s no reason why it should fall on him to take up this task. But somebody should (it looks very weak otherwise), so if Pinker is discouraging that, I&#039;d have to disagree with both him and you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My remark wasn&#8217;t meant as a critique of Pinker. There&#8217;s no reason why it should fall on him to take up this task. But somebody should (it looks very weak otherwise), so if Pinker is discouraging that, I&#8217;d have to disagree with both him and you.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Schmuhl</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Schmuhl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pinker pretty much has his mind made up from the get go. He says that MacDonald&#039;s ideas are bad from thr start without reading any of the requisite matetial. I can&#039;t say that I really agree with any of his reasons:

1. The fact that Jews are less likely to accept certain ideas because of intrinsic biases is not by definition ad hominem, if anything Pinker is guilty of straw manning and misunderstanding the definition of the fallacy in question. Stating that Liberals are less likely to accept innate gender/biological differences is not a fallacy either, it is a fact.

2. MacDonald&#039;s thesis is not contingent on group selection. W.D. Hamilton praised MacDonald&#039;s first book and has made similar arguments without invoking group selection at all. I don&#039;t see him saying similar things about Johanthan Haidt or David Sloan Wilson either.

3. Pinker is circumlocuting here. Pinker is saying that regardless of whether any of these theses are true, Kevin MacDonald occasionally uses value laden language (never actually makes an argument against this value laden language), and his work is bad for the Jews.

4. Kevin MacDonald actually has used control groups. He added an entire preface on other diaspora peoples to his first book for example. Pinker would know this if he actually bothered reading his books and papers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pinker pretty much has his mind made up from the get go. He says that MacDonald&#8217;s ideas are bad from thr start without reading any of the requisite matetial. I can&#8217;t say that I really agree with any of his reasons:</p>
<p>1. The fact that Jews are less likely to accept certain ideas because of intrinsic biases is not by definition ad hominem, if anything Pinker is guilty of straw manning and misunderstanding the definition of the fallacy in question. Stating that Liberals are less likely to accept innate gender/biological differences is not a fallacy either, it is a fact.</p>
<p>2. MacDonald&#8217;s thesis is not contingent on group selection. W.D. Hamilton praised MacDonald&#8217;s first book and has made similar arguments without invoking group selection at all. I don&#8217;t see him saying similar things about Johanthan Haidt or David Sloan Wilson either.</p>
<p>3. Pinker is circumlocuting here. Pinker is saying that regardless of whether any of these theses are true, Kevin MacDonald occasionally uses value laden language (never actually makes an argument against this value laden language), and his work is bad for the Jews.</p>
<p>4. Kevin MacDonald actually has used control groups. He added an entire preface on other diaspora peoples to his first book for example. Pinker would know this if he actually bothered reading his books and papers.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Turner Overdrive</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79715</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Turner Overdrive]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 20:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dialogue contributed by John Tooby # 3
&quot; In other words, functional aspects of the architecture (e.g., complex adaptations) will tend to be universal at the genetic level, even though their expression may be limited to a particular sex or age, or be contingent on the presence of an eliciting cue in the environment. Humans are free to vary genetically in their superficial, nonfunctional traits, and they do. But they are constrained by natural selection to share a universal genetic design for their complex, evolved functional architecture. The claim that the human cognitive architecture must be universal at the genetic level is not a pious liberal falsehood - it is a profoundly important fact, derivable from adaptationist principles.&quot;
HNU affirmed - we are not the heretics you are looking for!
In 1999 this was dubious. In 2014 - risible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dialogue contributed by John Tooby # 3<br />
&#8221; In other words, functional aspects of the architecture (e.g., complex adaptations) will tend to be universal at the genetic level, even though their expression may be limited to a particular sex or age, or be contingent on the presence of an eliciting cue in the environment. Humans are free to vary genetically in their superficial, nonfunctional traits, and they do. But they are constrained by natural selection to share a universal genetic design for their complex, evolved functional architecture. The claim that the human cognitive architecture must be universal at the genetic level is not a pious liberal falsehood &#8211; it is a profoundly important fact, derivable from adaptationist principles.&#8221;<br />
HNU affirmed &#8211; we are not the heretics you are looking for!<br />
In 1999 this was dubious. In 2014 &#8211; risible.</p>
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		<title>By: Evo Psych Ward &#124; Reaction Times</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/evo-psych-ward/#comment-79713</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evo Psych Ward &#124; Reaction Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2014 20:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3064#comment-79713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Source: Outside In [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Source: Outside In [&#8230;]</p>
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