Fission II

The Umlaut has long been doing an embarrassing amount of our thinking for us, and perhaps even more of our controversy. The latest installment, by Dalibor Rohac, is here. The connections it makes are frankly disturbing to this blog, whose pro-capitalist, post-libertarian, and general Atlantean sympathies have been pushed as hard as realistically possible, along with an explicit attempt at differentiation from those tendencies with an opposite — I would argue self-evidently anti-Moldbuggian — valency. It is going to be difficult to condemn conflations of NRx with the ENR for so long as the ‘voice’ of Neoreaction includes remarks of this kind:

NRx, across its whole spectrum, is neither libertarian nor fascist. There is, however, a remarkable polarity — our axis of fission — which is based upon which of these associations is found most disreputable. From my perspective, this distinction lines up extremely neatly with Alexander Dugin’s Hyperborean / Atlantean continental forever war. It seems to me beyond any serious question that the inheritance from Mencius Moldbug lies unproblematically on the Atlantean side of this divide. The standing Outside in prophecy is that, by the end of this year, a definitive break along these lines will have taken place. There’s no reason I can see to back-track on that expectation.

ADDED: “One could see a situation in which libertarian inattentiveness to political concerns, in the face of masses of people that are growing frustrated with democracy, abets extremism. If freedom and democracy are incompatible, like Peter Thiel thinks, it is important to articulate ways to preserve freedom.”

August 6, 2014admin 54 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Neoreaction

TAGGED WITH : , , , ,

54 Responses to this entry

  • Bryce Laliberte Says:

    I suspect all portrayals will tend to overemphasize, and thus mistake, some appearance within NRx for something else. What’s there to do? At least we’re beyond the “Just read Moldbug” stage, but people want some sort of neat party line that can tuck NRx away securely. More to say about the trichotomy I suppose.


    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 6:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • SanguineEmpiricist Says:

    Can someone throw out Anissimov until he he produces legitimate output? His constant posturing is attracting the wrong kind of attention. He has no idea what he is doing. Fucking fool.

    Yes you idiot, just what you need to be placed under surveillance for stirring up fascist sympathies. As foolish as *some* among the left are, at least they have a long bloodied experience of understanding what happens when you attract adversarial attention like this. Nationalism is still an infantile disease.


    Christopher Reply:

    “Nationalism is still an infantile disease.”

    I thought it was supposed to be an “equivalent claimant to be the standard bearer of the disintegrationist position”.


    Dark Psy-Ops Reply:

    Admiring the achievements of a country and its men, and looking to its preservation, is to be encouraged, but the ENR and other confused proggery are like the corrupted populations Machiavelli tells us of, who after fighting to gain their freedom lose it again directly.


    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 7:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • soapjackal Says:

    a agree with everything except:

    there are both facists and libertarians in NRx. it hasn’t properly made an ideology so it’s basically a platform that can hold up those who or equally balanced on all 3 foundations and everyone else regresses to prior ideological tenets.

    That’s why these articles make me laugh. They can’t directly ear with the major insights, but instead of dealing with the fact it’s vaguely dissimilar from an ideology they just ‘wow just wow’ around it.

    comment sections not too bad on there.


    admin Reply:

    The comments there (at time of writing) are great — classic by Nydwracu, but they’re all well worth reading.

    I’d like to think we can agree that if “there are both facists and libertarians in NRx” they don’t get it, and need work. Both of those ideological options are well-served by intellectual platforms already. Why the hell do they need ours?


    soapjackal Reply:

    you did post my thoughts on action but I didnt write that comment on the open thread fast enough to really go indepth.

    NRx isnt an ideology. If it is its tthe ideological equivalent of a zygote.

    Since it doesnt fill the ideology hole in our heads and very few of us fill it with something else (ive been shoving trivium, tribe, and virtue in there) almost everyone regresses to a prior ideological position, i cant really see any functional differences between our catallitics supporters and a reactionary libertarian who understands computers, in order to maintain the capacity to debate on philosophical issues.

    The thrictotomy isnt the basis of nrx, its the adherents camps of regression.

    “Why the hell do they need ours?” because nrx is an essence that called a variety of disparate groups together. Its not moldbuggism by a long shot. Its almost a reaction to the concept of ideology itself. Theres elements of transcendence in all the legs.

    Problem is people are lazy so interesting tangents to be mined that would reflect what the nrx actually is are left sitting in the wastes of mental space.


    Antisthenes Reply:

    I thought we were the ideological equivalent of ebola.

    Chuck Reply:

    “I’d like to think we can agree that if “there are both facists and libertarians in NRx” they don’t get it, and need work. Both of those ideological options are well-served by intellectual platforms already. Why the hell do they need ours?”

    What is the meta-position which opposes only universalism (thus allowing neofascist, national libertarian, national communist, theocratic, and techno capitalist states in different locals )? What is meta-NRx’s relation to this?



    Antisthenes Reply:

    Traditionalism? Tribalism?

    Chuck Reply:

    Antisthenes: “Traditionalism? Tribalism?”

    No, because radical pluralism allows for anti-traditional/anti-tribal societies so long as they are tolerant of other systems. What is the relation between meta-NRx and this? At very least, meta-NRx adds societal darwinianism — no sentimentality for sub-functional systems; let them perish. But what more?

    Why e.g., neofascism* “needs” a meta-position which provides it with breathing-space is obvious.

    *unlike fascism 1.0, fascism 2.0, if only for tactical reasons, situates itself in pluralistic discourse.

    admin Reply:

    @ Antisthenes — let us not flatter ourselves.

    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 7:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • scientism Says:

    It’s obvious that a term like ‘neoreaction’ is going to be used for everything and anything. Moreover, the point that we’re in the midst of a general, illiberal trend is sound. This is obviously because of the rise of a giant illiberal, anti-democratic country (China) and the simultaneously relative decline of the US. The liberal democratic world order is fracturing and space is opening up for all sorts of new possibilities. Alternative ideologies are jostling for position. The word ‘neoreaction’ actually works quite well as a catch-all term for anything illiberal, undemocratic and otherwise at odds with liberal democracy, so I suspect we’ll see it applied this way in future.


    neovictorian23 Reply:

    The word ‘neoreaction’ actually works quite well as a catch-all term for anything illiberal, undemocratic and otherwise at odds with liberal democracy, so I suspect we’ll see it applied this way in future.

    Then we’d better do some enforcing like Coke™ and Kleenex™ and whack it where found; as several commentors there pointed out this conflation is exactly what Rohac slipped into the first few paragraphs of his piece. NRx, whatever it may be(coming), is not “Anything to the Right of David Cameron and John Boehener.” It is not, in my reading, “nationalist” in any way. As our gracious host here has pointed out a number of times, it’s about division, not unification; shards, not Reichs.


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    Use this memetic weapon, that I mentioned many times on Twitter:

    “Fascism/xyz is to the Left of Neoreaction.”

    It pre-empts their expectation that we will insist we are TOTALLY NOT BIGOTS GUYS. It also lobs Hitler and the rest in with THEM i.e. Hitler was a leftist like you and we don’t want him. This double whammy is a hypochondric shock to the Leftist mind, and, I expect, makes it very hard for the “neoreaction is fascism is bigotry blah blah same shit” meme to stick. They will see we are much worse than Hitler was for progessivism.


    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    Hitler was a godsend for Progressivism. Without him, would we have a shoah to browbeat the Europeans with? Nope.

    Izak Reply:

    OK, well then both splitting sides of the upcoming NRx divide can agree: “Whatever we are, we’re far more Right wing than Hitler.”

    Because, of course, Julius Evola — who seems to be a big inspiration for this Anissimov guy — criticized Hitler and Mussolini’s Fascism from the stance of the right.

    So it’s a clever talking point which might make for a great soundbyte one day, but it doesn’t distinguish much of anything.

    For the record, I have no problems with Hitler. He was a guy who tried to do some good, he failed, he went insane, and then he killed a bunch of people who didn’t deserve to die. There you go. That’s how history works.

    You could argue that he’s the anti-sovereign of the modern Western Civilization Leviathan. Picture all of civilization as a diamond shape, with Hitler at the very lowest point, and the most disfigured and downtrodden version of the universal proletariat (a gay black ethnically Jewish yet theologically Muslim transvestite with a disability issue and maybe a tail or eyepatch for good measure) at the very top. This is all theoretical of course, no one like that really needs to exist. In fact “Hitler” didn’t really exist. Anyhow — the locus of power is Hitler but in an antagonistic sense. Everything he represents, we aim toward its opposite. Society sees power secured at the bottom and tries to hoist it upward to ensure the security of the top.

    You also could say that Hitler is like the great bail-out of the West. He’s like what libertarians say that Benjamin Bernanke’s quantitative easing strategy is to the United States. The West was supposed to fail a long time ago. But with the great bail-out of the Third Reich, it now can live on borrowed time, with Hitler standing as the anti-sovereign; the new means with which to create stability and security for generations to come.

    Hitler really doesn’t get enough credit. Check him out in all of the different internet memes. Everyone of all political orientations obviously loves him.

    Mark Yuray Reply:


    It’s not meant to distinguish much. Only one thing: NRx is not fascism. It is worse. It’s a purely memetic device meant to steer the language surrounding NRx (language that both we and proggies use) into a more truthful and useful territory.

    Liberals tend to think that they “beat” Hitler (i.e. the personification of the Right) in 1945, and that everything else is just a sort of “Scouring of the Shire”-esque epilogue where liberals ultimately win. The point is to shove a long shiv into the side of this meme: NRx is not Hitler, it’s beyond Hitler, and worse than Hitler, and progressives will need to confront it on its own terms, not theirs.

    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 8:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Mark Yuray Says:

    You put more stock in the Atlantean/Hyperborean concept than I think is necessary. There is nothing inherently progressive or left-wing about Atlantean civilization, as far as I can tell.


    admin Reply:

    I think we’re going to find, whether we like it or not, that the Atlantean / Hyperborean articulation is the crucial axis upon which global ideological history will be unfolding within coming decades. By far the most important question in the world today: How will China play this? Everything else will be fall out from that.


    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 8:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • Fission II | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 8:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • Izak Says:

    A few disparate points:

    #1 I’m glad to see this blog seeing what I’m seeing: the divide in NRx corresponds to the geopolitical land/sea value divide which Dugin (following Schmitt, Haushofer, et al) sees happening and playing out on a global scale.

    And it’s nice, because the Land/Moldbug aspect of NRx is probably the best that the pro-Capitalist, pro-cosmopolitan, Atlantean orientation has to offer. If we can do anything in politics, best to fashion a clash between the absolute best. I’m of the opinion that America would be in fine working order if in every election the Democrats were represented by guys like Nader or Kucinich and the Republicans were represented by guys like Pat Buchanan.

    #2 I don’t think it’s fair to cite anything by Counter Currents as authoritative on the ENR. Counter Currents has made use of the “New Right” label and presents itself as the “North American New Right,” which is quite different from the ENR. In fact, I think CC is directly in contrast to ENR on a few key issues, such as the Jewish Question and the Darwinian classification of race (as I understand it, ENR is mostly indifferent to the Jews and the zoological understanding of human difference). I am not even sure if their understanding of metapolitics is the same. CC also appears to be more conspiratorial, which is a shame, but whatever.

    #3 The Umlaut’s article is wrong about Arktos media. It claims that Arktos has published some books that it clearly didn’t publish; it distributes them. It’s a publisher and distro. Not complicated. I dunno if any of the commenters pointed that out.

    #4 If anything, I hope that the oncoming lines of demarcation result in the complete mutual abandonment of the word “neoreaction.” I’ve always felt like it’s a completely worthless word and never should have been adopted for or by anyone. When broken down into its constituent parts, it signifies basically nothing. Phonemically, it sounds awful. Is that part of its appeal? Is there some hipsterish irony that I’m missing? Either way, it’s enough to make one seriously consider the New Right — any New Right — only for the cosmetic attractiveness of its name alone: lower-syllable words, lack of pretentious morpheme stacking, translatability into other languages…. as long as the media is going to have some umbrella boogeyman term, I’d prefer to not have to cringe every time I hear it, especially if it gets off the internet and people start to speak the words aloud.


    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    Phonemically, it sounds awful.

    this alone has made me call your whole comment into question


    Izak Reply:

    I may be just getting sick of big words.


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    If that be the case, you are in the wrong neighborhood!

    Izak Reply:

    I think I like this “nydwracu” guy because he doesn’t go for big words. He goes for obscure Germanic ones. The devil is in the details, my friend. Latin and Greek affixes are trash.

    admin Reply:

    The comment thread over there is truly excellent. Among much gold, I thought this by Jack Crassus was worth noting: “Wait, I figured it out. You noticed that the word ‘Neoreaction’ gets you page views. I look forward to your next article ‘You won’t BELIEVE these 11 pictures of Neoreactionary kittehs!'”


    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 11:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • an inanimate aluminum tube Says:

    A discussion group / analysis “movement” with techno-commercialists, theonomists, and ethno-nationalists in it could work, at least in theory. These groups do largely agree on a few hate facts. People with very conventional political views could even contribute on technical topics, like science.

    But an advocacy movement with techno-commercialists, theonomists, and ethno-nationalists in it doesn’t make much sense. These ideas are totally incompatible.

    It seems to me that regardless of the original intentions, NrX has become a (confusing) advocacy movement. That’s why we have all these people calling themselves Neoreactionaries going around advocating stuff. And when NrX becomes an advocacy movement, the presence of ethno-nationalists may become problematic, because of the natural linkage to the giant ethno-nationalist movement, much of which is pretty far away from NrX.

    And unfortunately, “Neoreaction” doesn’t sound like a name for a discussion group. It sounds like a name for a set of political views. And it sounds pretty cool, so perhaps it was inevitable that people would turn it into an advocacy movement.

    So NrX tends to be viewed as some sort of weird political movement involving Jared Taylor style kosher white nationalism plus CEO Kings and libertarian economics. Awful.

    Even though it’s a bit corny, the Dark Enlightenment was a much more fitting name for a discussion group.

    At this point though, I can’t see any remedy except for exit from the NrX label.


    Izak Reply:

    Yes, Dark Enlightenment has a bit of a Dungeons and Dragons quality to it, but at least the name implies learning something and thinking about stuff.

    A reaction is supposed to take place in reality. It’s a big thing in Newton’s laws of thermodynamics. People want to think about movement in real terms.

    I should also say that by capitalizing the letter X in “NrX,” you’re taking away the best thing that “NRx” has going for it as a label: the lower case X signifies medical remedy *and* faintly evokes the way 80s punk bands would use a lower case x in lieu of a period when acronymizing. With a capital X, virtually all of the aesthetic appeal of abbreviating “neoreaction” goes away.


    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 11:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Rasputin Says:

    God it’s true. We are no better than a bunch of hipsters whinging when our favourite outré rock band gets the attention of the mainstream and is no longer ‘cool’. That said, I agree with the analysis and the sentiment expressed above by AIAT. It looks like some dynamics are so dire there is just no escaping them, and it all seems so grimly inevitable in retrospect.

    Save me a space in the escape pod to the planet where NRx is still a powerful tool for philosophical / political analysis, not some pathetic ‘right wing’ hate march.


    John Reply:


    I got mixed up in NRx because it smelled more like truth and did more to neutralize progressive borg programming than anything else. For those who grok it, NRx is more initiation rite than anything. And what it initiates one into is a distributed cyber-based brotherhood of philosophers, mystics, and techno-shamans who advocate for nothing and truly agree on only one thing — that what emanates from the Left is massively powerful, equally creepy, and definitively supra-human.

    So, sad to get lumped in with Fascism 2.0.

    I can’t shake the feeling that The New Right ends with somebody getting genocided, World War III, or some horrifying combination of the two.


    admin Reply:

    Without wanting to foster childish optimism, it’s not impossible that things can be done to subvert the demotic right — even just by providing an alternative for the types who matter most. A model for counter-revolution that at no stage involves howling mobs needs to be there. Attract Silicon Valley billionaires, senior NSA operatives, and similar characters and all manner of things are possible.


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    I suspect that your brand of anti-demotism will create the howling mobs.

    The demos doesn’t have to be demotic. The ‘people’ isn’t a natural thing. It is made.

    Posted on August 6th, 2014 at 11:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • sobl Says:

    Anissimov at least changed his twitter avatar to not be that picture where he looks like Sling Blade’s gay little brother with dead eyes


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 2:00 am Reply | Quote
  • Kgaard Says:

    I am struggling with exactly how the economics of this “New European Right” are going to work. Holding up Russia, China and Turkey as examples (as Hungary’s Orban does) isn’t encouraging. Turkey has been growing but that is chiefly because a) they went through the ringer of numerous grinding crashes and devaluations over the past 30 years (which flushed out sloppy operators from the banking system and left per capita GDP very low), and b) they slashed their corporate and individual tax rates a decade ago.

    In France, really the best idea Marine Le Pen has (other than reducing immigration) is to get off the euro. That’s going to mean a big devaluation, though, and thus won’t be painless, though in the long run it’s a reasonable call.

    What would an Alexander Dugin economics textbook look like? I’m not sure it would make any sense.

    The problem with identarian economic programs in the post-modern economy is that they are unlikely to create enough jobs for young men. That means young women won’t want to marry them and instead will be drawn to foreigners (as is still the case in places like Ukraine today) or won’t marry at all. A big driver behind the popularity of the Maidan protests in Kiev was the economic frustration of young blondes — and that’s a function of thug rule. Seems to me identarian economics is more likely to be pro-thug than anti-thug. If that’s the case, nobody who can help it is gonna want to fall into Russia’s orbit, as the place really won’t have much to offer.

    That said, that conference in Budapest in October looks very interesting. I think Telos is doing a European conference in September, actually, and that will probably cover similar themes …


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 3:01 am Reply | Quote
  • Scharlach Says:

    All of this has been dealt with before, nein? We—the Landians—support ethno-nationalists because they are, for myriad reasons, the only groups around these days whose policies and ideologies would begin to move us toward the world of competing cultures that is necessary for advancing intelligence and achievement.

    Do I think a bunch of Greek and Serbian hooligans with a socialist bent have any hope of mining Jupiter’s moons in this century? Of course not. But their vision of self-sufficient, cohesive groups defined against other self-sufficient, cohesive groups is one that has in the past proven itself to lead—eventually—to material results. What has proven itself to lead to clusterfuck degeneracy is the One World ideology of those whom the ethno-centrists want to topple. So, we support the ethno-nationalists as a means to an end. That, and it doesn’t hurt that fascist babes are pretty hot!


    admin Reply:

    Continental Europe (with minor exceptions) is lost forever to anything except crazy.


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 4:15 am Reply | Quote
  • Blogospheroid Says:

    Every strand of neo-reaction which seeks to create good government neglects some people.
    Religious traditionalism neglects everyone who actually understood Darwin.
    Ethno nationalism neglects those who are not of that ethnicity.
    Techno commercialism neglects almost everyone whose job can be replaced by a machine (the entire left half of the bell curve, a growing crowd).

    By any measure, the fear of the ENR is a symptom of fighting yesterday’s war. A consistent total utilitarian would actually be more wary of techno commercialism, going by sheer numbers.


    Blogospheroid Reply:

    cross posted on umlaut


    Aeroguy Reply:

    Some of us techno commercialists regard the neglect of replaced people as a feature rather than a bug because we anticipate not just the left half of the bell curve but the entirety of the human race being replaced by something better. Do total utilitarians account for the bacteria in their gut when making decisions?


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 4:32 am Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    If you look at twiiter, that Rohac guy is Cato institute linked, and a number of them have retweeted the article. We are on their radar now. Shame they think we are eth nats socialists.


    admin Reply:

    We have history with CATO.


    Chris B Reply:

    I remember that one. Didn’t realize he was CATO too.


    Chris B Reply:

    Not big on brains over there are they?


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 6:02 am Reply | Quote
  • Dark Psy-Ops Says:

    NRx is not about voting or protesting its way back into political acceptedness In reality, it is a collection of the most prescient remaining survivors of the current regressive mass mutation (progressivism). They understand themselves and their allies are for the most part already bitten and probably doomed, and the only hope is to abandon the infected empire to its autophagic fate and start a Venetian-style republic somewhere safe, surrounded by an autonomous killing system or commercial military. Ethnat is good for the thedening and Darwinism, and religion is good for the oath-taking and pleb piety. After that, we can unleash the full potential of the Mad Scientist Drive and die as our minds are reformatted for virtual upload…

    Personally I’m gong to try sneak into this new promised City of Gnon through the vents or something.


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 6:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:

    Moldbug’s role as John the Baptist is established. Now, we’re looking for a thinker to synthesize the thinking to create something at once new and yet comfortably familiar. I suspect it will involve some pragmatism that won’t go down well with many here (render unto Caesar type formulations) but will translate into something real “in the world”.

    I’m not advocating this– I think the discussion is far more interesting that mere politics– but exigencies will propel a period of rapid value determination from which a new generation of practical & political leaders will emerge. It is still early enough in the piece that more discussion and development can occur– it is the fin de siecle last call for drinks on the Titanic, but we might as well enjoy it….

    Another round?


    neovictorian23 Reply:

    So, calling St. Paul. St. Paul, your suite is ready!


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 10:30 am Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    Re: NRx

    “not have to cringe”

    “bit of a Dungeons and Dragons quality”

    You want neoreaction to be respectable.

    The truth is not respectable. The name is there to remind you of this, as you’re clearly prone to forgetting.

    If anything, the name isn’t dissonant enough. As a human, you’re a ludicrous clown. If you keep this in mind, you may, sometimes, be able to overcome or sidestep it.

    ENR admits neither its non-respectibility nor its ludicrousness, meaning it in effect enthusiastically embraces both.


    Izak Reply:

    Nope; sorry. I’m only concerned with aesthetics 100%.


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 11:16 am Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Says:

    In all likelihood, all intelligent an curious people will discover what Neoreaciton is actually about, rather than the gloss versions people who are intentionally incurious say it is about. It’s also probable than some of those people even know what it is about and are just being trashy.

    From the rel-trad perspective, mind upload is never going to be a thing, but getting the means of production out of the hands of an increasingly unstable, self-devouring titan that also happens to be consuming the locus of all meaning and culture is a bonus.

    I have no objection to people who want to try such things in their own country – I have low expectations for the overall effectiveness of ‘AI’ and ‘mind upload’ technologies. But if you want to devote time and resources to these black swans, by all means, have it a go. At the very least, some interesting things will be discovered in the process.


    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 12:42 pm Reply | Quote
  • We’re all Atlanteans here | The Mitrailleuse Says:

    […] inveighed against “ethno-socialism” before, comments on Dalibor’s piece, predicts a schism, and notes that neocameralism is an unmistakably Atlantean form of […]

    Posted on August 7th, 2014 at 2:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » New Atlantis Says:

    […] Fission II […]

    Posted on August 8th, 2014 at 1:59 am Reply | Quote
  • First Off, I Was Wrong | Clown Town Says:

    […] unified to me as it formerly did. It’s maybe not even all that interested in being unified. Land’s own very clear recent disavowals of ethnonationalism, even from those who seem like closely aligned neoreactionaries, have done a lot to convince me. […]

    Posted on August 9th, 2014 at 10:42 am Reply | Quote
  • Lightning ROund – 2014/08/13 | Free Northerner Says:

    […] Fission in neoreaction. […]

    Posted on August 13th, 2014 at 6:01 am Reply | Quote

Leave a comment