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	<title>Comments on: Irresponsibility</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Aeroguy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-133435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aeroguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-133435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sounds like you want to make a pact with Tzeentch in order to resurrect the Emperor. Gnon smiles with favor when his subjects lives are nasty, short, and brutish. Complex signalling is the only approved arena to show off beauty. After all, there can be no tragedy without an element of the bittersweet (The feel of the bittersweet, I can think of nothing more human, and few feelings better suited to be able to transcend beyond humanity.  I will concede that any intelligence no matter how great, which is incapable of that feeling, is not worth defending).

The curtain closes on the 2nd act, you remain hopeful for a happy ending while I can&#039;t ignore that the elements shown are all most potent when used in tragedy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like you want to make a pact with Tzeentch in order to resurrect the Emperor. Gnon smiles with favor when his subjects lives are nasty, short, and brutish. Complex signalling is the only approved arena to show off beauty. After all, there can be no tragedy without an element of the bittersweet (The feel of the bittersweet, I can think of nothing more human, and few feelings better suited to be able to transcend beyond humanity.  I will concede that any intelligence no matter how great, which is incapable of that feeling, is not worth defending).</p>
<p>The curtain closes on the 2nd act, you remain hopeful for a happy ending while I can&#8217;t ignore that the elements shown are all most potent when used in tragedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Aeroguy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-133231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aeroguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-133231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When the ship sinks people tend to blame whoever is at the helm.  The left was growing weary of blaming Bush long after he was gone, now with a solidly Red congress the left will have a much easier time excusing itself from the coming problems.  For the masses, the main thing that will stick in their mind will be who was president when SHTF.  I tend to imagine Elizabeth Warren in her second term when SHTF (more gut feeling than anything else).

I don&#039;t see who occupies elected office as influencing when the financial crisis hits.  I do think it will coincide with a rise in communists but the more the masses associate them with the failure (thus why putting a leftist&#039;s leftist in charge is important) the smaller their movement will be (the cathedral as a whole will remain, this isn&#039;t the left singularity).

As for our next ride I see things naturally moving back to a more local orientation without Washington being able to buy influence on credit.  While we like to give Nyan a hard time about his Phalanx project it actually is the right mindset since making meatspace localized networks with good men is a smart way to prepare.  I do like the idea of the antiversity (in the decentralized shared learning sense), couple it with cryptocurrency and that urbit thing Moldbug is working on.  There lies a potentially global system ready to fill in the hole left by the dollar and even supplant the university credential system permanently weakening the cathedral.  Even if it doesn&#039;t catch on globally, it could provide a wider economic structure to help the local Phalanx type groups exit in place (tech that bypasses the need for trust is the path to patchwork).

Anyone want to play devil&#039;s advocate and lay out a scenario where centralized authority is maintained or tightens without the dollar?  Nonfinancial collapse SHTF scenarios?(someone could detail how the culture war turns hot a la vxxc2014, I&#039;m still skeptical on that)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the ship sinks people tend to blame whoever is at the helm.  The left was growing weary of blaming Bush long after he was gone, now with a solidly Red congress the left will have a much easier time excusing itself from the coming problems.  For the masses, the main thing that will stick in their mind will be who was president when SHTF.  I tend to imagine Elizabeth Warren in her second term when SHTF (more gut feeling than anything else).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see who occupies elected office as influencing when the financial crisis hits.  I do think it will coincide with a rise in communists but the more the masses associate them with the failure (thus why putting a leftist&#8217;s leftist in charge is important) the smaller their movement will be (the cathedral as a whole will remain, this isn&#8217;t the left singularity).</p>
<p>As for our next ride I see things naturally moving back to a more local orientation without Washington being able to buy influence on credit.  While we like to give Nyan a hard time about his Phalanx project it actually is the right mindset since making meatspace localized networks with good men is a smart way to prepare.  I do like the idea of the antiversity (in the decentralized shared learning sense), couple it with cryptocurrency and that urbit thing Moldbug is working on.  There lies a potentially global system ready to fill in the hole left by the dollar and even supplant the university credential system permanently weakening the cathedral.  Even if it doesn&#8217;t catch on globally, it could provide a wider economic structure to help the local Phalanx type groups exit in place (tech that bypasses the need for trust is the path to patchwork).</p>
<p>Anyone want to play devil&#8217;s advocate and lay out a scenario where centralized authority is maintained or tightens without the dollar?  Nonfinancial collapse SHTF scenarios?(someone could detail how the culture war turns hot a la vxxc2014, I&#8217;m still skeptical on that)</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-133156</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 05:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-133156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sympathetic to voting for a right wing &quot;extremist&quot; in order to try to open up the Overton window to the right.  I am also sympathetic to trying to move the window to the right by voting for the lesser evil.  But trying to hasten the collapse seems like a really bad idea.  As &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.samizdata.net/2013/02/samizdata-quote-of-the-day-250/#comment-293812&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tedd&lt;/a&gt;&quot; put it at Samizdata, &quot;[T]he argument against collectivism and progressivism needs to be won before the collapse happens. Once the system collapses, people will assess blame according to the political paradigm they already subscribe to....&quot;

At worst, voting for the lesser evil is stalling.  But stalling is good.  We should want people to have as much time to rethink their views as possible.  It takes time for people to deal with the loss of face associated with changing their views.  It takes time for fools to die off and for their children to learn to curse them.  It takes time to develop meaningful alternatives.

Speaking of meaningful alternatives, what do we have to offer the supposedly newly open-minded voters after a collapse if we don&#039;t like, for example, the Australian constitution?  What fraction of us here take Anissimov seriously?  Moldbug&#039;s cryptographic locks?  Before we scuttle the ship we&#039;re on, we need to figure out where our next ride is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sympathetic to voting for a right wing &#8220;extremist&#8221; in order to try to open up the Overton window to the right.  I am also sympathetic to trying to move the window to the right by voting for the lesser evil.  But trying to hasten the collapse seems like a really bad idea.  As &#8220;<a href="http://www.samizdata.net/2013/02/samizdata-quote-of-the-day-250/#comment-293812" rel="nofollow">Tedd</a>&#8221; put it at Samizdata, &#8220;[T]he argument against collectivism and progressivism needs to be won before the collapse happens. Once the system collapses, people will assess blame according to the political paradigm they already subscribe to&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>At worst, voting for the lesser evil is stalling.  But stalling is good.  We should want people to have as much time to rethink their views as possible.  It takes time for people to deal with the loss of face associated with changing their views.  It takes time for fools to die off and for their children to learn to curse them.  It takes time to develop meaningful alternatives.</p>
<p>Speaking of meaningful alternatives, what do we have to offer the supposedly newly open-minded voters after a collapse if we don&#8217;t like, for example, the Australian constitution?  What fraction of us here take Anissimov seriously?  Moldbug&#8217;s cryptographic locks?  Before we scuttle the ship we&#8217;re on, we need to figure out where our next ride is.</p>
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		<title>By: Lesser Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-133047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lesser Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 01:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-133047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;or at least wellbeing&quot; is different from demotism.  You&#039;re shoving two unlike things into the same definition.  The rulers responsibility for the ruled is inherent in their authority over the ruled.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;or at least wellbeing&#8221; is different from demotism.  You&#8217;re shoving two unlike things into the same definition.  The rulers responsibility for the ruled is inherent in their authority over the ruled.</p>
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		<title>By: forkinhell</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[forkinhell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Presumably for NRx the value of the vote is akin to the value of a $5 dollar bill? They are after all both Cathedral constructs. But most of you probably don&#039;t burn your dollars like your vote, seeing as it retains a pragmatic value. So is the question of voting not one of principle but actually, also a pragmatic one? NRx wants Cathedral implosion, no? And by its own analysis this is best achieved by the left. So shouldn&#039;t you all be following Porphy&#039;s Attorney&#039;s advice, and all be out voting democrat?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably for NRx the value of the vote is akin to the value of a $5 dollar bill? They are after all both Cathedral constructs. But most of you probably don&#8217;t burn your dollars like your vote, seeing as it retains a pragmatic value. So is the question of voting not one of principle but actually, also a pragmatic one? NRx wants Cathedral implosion, no? And by its own analysis this is best achieved by the left. So shouldn&#8217;t you all be following Porphy&#8217;s Attorney&#8217;s advice, and all be out voting democrat?</p>
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		<title>By: Porphy's Attorney</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132987</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Porphy's Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132987</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[THe problem with that is one of the central tenets of NRx, or to put it at the level of individual mental understanding (non-deterministic), one of the things that makes one NRx instead of, say, paleo-right or traditionalist is the realization that voting for the Outer Party is futile, if not actually counter-productive.

It&#039;s the old R.L.Dabney traditionalism about the role of &quot;northern [that is, mainstream] conservatism&quot; in American (and, thus, the demotic &quot;free world&quot;) politics, and thus the role of outer-party activism.

I mean one doesn&#039;t *have* to come to that conclusion and be NRx, I suppose, but it is one of the defining features that *most* NRx hold that conclusion, and one (among a number) of reasons why democracy is considered non-functional.

Anyhow point is if one reached an NRx position in at least part based on sharing that conclusion, then no, the last thing one would do is vote for the outer party. One would actually be more likely to vote for the inner party (if one were dragged to the polls and compelled somehow to vote).

Of course, there are a lot of intelligent people who do not share that conclusion, and some (a distinct minority) who ought to be considered NRx do not share that conclusion, but it is a distinct minority position in need of stalwart defense rather than just assertion. IMO.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THe problem with that is one of the central tenets of NRx, or to put it at the level of individual mental understanding (non-deterministic), one of the things that makes one NRx instead of, say, paleo-right or traditionalist is the realization that voting for the Outer Party is futile, if not actually counter-productive.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the old R.L.Dabney traditionalism about the role of &#8220;northern [that is, mainstream] conservatism&#8221; in American (and, thus, the demotic &#8220;free world&#8221;) politics, and thus the role of outer-party activism.</p>
<p>I mean one doesn&#8217;t *have* to come to that conclusion and be NRx, I suppose, but it is one of the defining features that *most* NRx hold that conclusion, and one (among a number) of reasons why democracy is considered non-functional.</p>
<p>Anyhow point is if one reached an NRx position in at least part based on sharing that conclusion, then no, the last thing one would do is vote for the outer party. One would actually be more likely to vote for the inner party (if one were dragged to the polls and compelled somehow to vote).</p>
<p>Of course, there are a lot of intelligent people who do not share that conclusion, and some (a distinct minority) who ought to be considered NRx do not share that conclusion, but it is a distinct minority position in need of stalwart defense rather than just assertion. IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Hurlock</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132957</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hurlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I for one am mainly driven by disgust for communism.

It has worked out fine so far, thank you. 

&quot;all True NRx should vote Team (R) unironically.&quot;

I couldn&#039;t possibly imagine anything more ironic than a bunch of anti-democrats voting.

&quot;Instead, I claim the right to say&quot;

What do you think this is? A democracy?

Jokes aside, best of luck, honestly. I think it is irrelevant whether you vote or not anyways, so do whatever makes you feel better.
After all, that&#039;s what we all do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one am mainly driven by disgust for communism.</p>
<p>It has worked out fine so far, thank you. </p>
<p>&#8220;all True NRx should vote Team (R) unironically.&#8221;</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t possibly imagine anything more ironic than a bunch of anti-democrats voting.</p>
<p>&#8220;Instead, I claim the right to say&#8221;</p>
<p>What do you think this is? A democracy?</p>
<p>Jokes aside, best of luck, honestly. I think it is irrelevant whether you vote or not anyways, so do whatever makes you feel better.<br />
After all, that&#8217;s what we all do.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m an old hand, so I feel no need to apologize for my heresy. Instead, I claim the right to say that all True NRx should vote Team (R) unironically.

Allowing disgust with democracy (or anything else, really) to drive one&#039;s behavior makes you little better than an animal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an old hand, so I feel no need to apologize for my heresy. Instead, I claim the right to say that all True NRx should vote Team (R) unironically.</p>
<p>Allowing disgust with democracy (or anything else, really) to drive one&#8217;s behavior makes you little better than an animal.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I felt an urge to match the crassness of engaging in domotism with my language.&quot;

Don&#039;t be so modest. Your language is hardly the only thing about you that&#039;s crass.

The leftist insistence upon profanity in the face of good-natured pro-social behavior is truly a sign of its satanic origins. Wallow in what you will; I&#039;m having another son in June.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I felt an urge to match the crassness of engaging in domotism with my language.&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be so modest. Your language is hardly the only thing about you that&#8217;s crass.</p>
<p>The leftist insistence upon profanity in the face of good-natured pro-social behavior is truly a sign of its satanic origins. Wallow in what you will; I&#8217;m having another son in June.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/irresponsibility/#comment-132905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4018#comment-132905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Elections are voting between getting fucked in the ass with an 8 inch dildo or getting fucked in the ass with an 6 inch dildo, there are 3rd parties that are opposed to fucking everybody in the ass with dildos but they have no chance of winning. So you say we need to vote for getting fucked in the ass with 6 inch dildos when we’ve come to the conclusion that is whole business of the majority deciding we need dildo ass fucking is absurd and voting for the 6 inch dildos is essentially consenting to getting fucked with dildos and we would rather make it clear that we don’t consent. We’re all getting fucked with dildos either way, it doesn’t really matter, voting certainly doesn’t make a difference.&quot;

I strongly endorse your voluntary disenfranchisement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Elections are voting between getting fucked in the ass with an 8 inch dildo or getting fucked in the ass with an 6 inch dildo, there are 3rd parties that are opposed to fucking everybody in the ass with dildos but they have no chance of winning. So you say we need to vote for getting fucked in the ass with 6 inch dildos when we’ve come to the conclusion that is whole business of the majority deciding we need dildo ass fucking is absurd and voting for the 6 inch dildos is essentially consenting to getting fucked with dildos and we would rather make it clear that we don’t consent. We’re all getting fucked with dildos either way, it doesn’t really matter, voting certainly doesn’t make a difference.&#8221;</p>
<p>I strongly endorse your voluntary disenfranchisement.</p>
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