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	<title>Comments on: Monetary Reality</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35439</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vimothy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2014 16:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A financial asset corresponding to no liability is not a financial asset. It is a receipt. In fact, it is not even a receipt, since a receipt records the purchase of some good or service. Your Bitcoin is just a note that says you gave someone some money. In the future, you hope to sell this note. After all, you paid a lot of money for it, so it must be valuable.

If any of your readers are keen, I have a ready supply of such notes at very reasonable prices. Rid yourselves of &#039;debt&#039;! (I.e., rid other people of their obligations to you, by transferring them to me.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A financial asset corresponding to no liability is not a financial asset. It is a receipt. In fact, it is not even a receipt, since a receipt records the purchase of some good or service. Your Bitcoin is just a note that says you gave someone some money. In the future, you hope to sell this note. After all, you paid a lot of money for it, so it must be valuable.</p>
<p>If any of your readers are keen, I have a ready supply of such notes at very reasonable prices. Rid yourselves of &#8216;debt&#8217;! (I.e., rid other people of their obligations to you, by transferring them to me.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 17:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wrote,

&quot;Gold has been usable as money almost everywhere ...including during intervals when civilization went missing.&quot;

It occurs to me that this an important point... If the $hit ever hits the proverbial fan, is it reasonable to expect the power grid and the nodes of the Internet to function smoothly? When I was in Chennai, India in January, the power (and the Internet) went away for two hours every morning, just because keeping the grid going is difficult in normal times. January is the cooler season. In the hot season, the power situation is much worse.

When unrest hits a country, the governments seem to be able to trivially take their nations offline. Not to mention that much of the world hasn&#039;t really gotten online in the first place.

And don&#039;t HBD aware reactionaries think that keeping all power grids and all computer networks up in the future will be a challenge for our diverse society?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote,</p>
<p>&#8220;Gold has been usable as money almost everywhere &#8230;including during intervals when civilization went missing.&#8221;</p>
<p>It occurs to me that this an important point&#8230; If the $hit ever hits the proverbial fan, is it reasonable to expect the power grid and the nodes of the Internet to function smoothly? When I was in Chennai, India in January, the power (and the Internet) went away for two hours every morning, just because keeping the grid going is difficult in normal times. January is the cooler season. In the hot season, the power situation is much worse.</p>
<p>When unrest hits a country, the governments seem to be able to trivially take their nations offline. Not to mention that much of the world hasn&#8217;t really gotten online in the first place.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t HBD aware reactionaries think that keeping all power grids and all computer networks up in the future will be a challenge for our diverse society?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 16:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gold has been usable as money almost everywhere there has been civilization and continually in all of Eurasia for a number of millennia without interruption, including during intervals when civilization went missing. A pretty durable reserve of trust, if you ask me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gold has been usable as money almost everywhere there has been civilization and continually in all of Eurasia for a number of millennia without interruption, including during intervals when civilization went missing. A pretty durable reserve of trust, if you ask me.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 16:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Private currency can be seen as loyal opposition to the dollar. With alternatives such as gold and bitcoin gaining prominence in recent years, central bankers have been reasonably responsible. Inflation is currently around 1 to 2 percent, which is tolerable considering that the central bankers have the power to make it literally any number they wish.

Right now, the dollar is strong because it seen as better than many other alternatives. For instance in India and Latin America, people flee to the dollar because it is better than their local alternatives. 

Kind of like the story about two friends in the woods who come upon a grizzly. The first one laces on his running shoes. The second one mocks him... &quot;you can&#039;t outrun that bear.&quot; &quot;But I don&#039;t have to&quot; the first one responds.

As long as there are weaker currencies about, the dollar is protected. The electronic trading mob gets its fill of fresh meat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Private currency can be seen as loyal opposition to the dollar. With alternatives such as gold and bitcoin gaining prominence in recent years, central bankers have been reasonably responsible. Inflation is currently around 1 to 2 percent, which is tolerable considering that the central bankers have the power to make it literally any number they wish.</p>
<p>Right now, the dollar is strong because it seen as better than many other alternatives. For instance in India and Latin America, people flee to the dollar because it is better than their local alternatives. </p>
<p>Kind of like the story about two friends in the woods who come upon a grizzly. The first one laces on his running shoes. The second one mocks him&#8230; &#8220;you can&#8217;t outrun that bear.&#8221; &#8220;But I don&#8217;t have to&#8221; the first one responds.</p>
<p>As long as there are weaker currencies about, the dollar is protected. The electronic trading mob gets its fill of fresh meat.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more point - the day that central banks start showing Bitcoins on their balance sheets as a form of reserve, I will begin to think Bitcoin has a future beyond something like baseball cards and other fad collectibles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more point &#8211; the day that central banks start showing Bitcoins on their balance sheets as a form of reserve, I will begin to think Bitcoin has a future beyond something like baseball cards and other fad collectibles.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35391</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Without recapping the entire body of argument on fiat money and gold as presented on the FOFOA blog, I would say that a fiat currency that can be &quot;managed&quot; by the government of the country that uses it is a valuable tool.  Governments are not going to give that up - they need the ability to print money and manage the money supply to deal with the various exigencies that arise.  Using gold as currency - which is what the US was doing when FDR required private citizens to turn in their gold for fiat - ties the hands of government and prevents it from devaluing the currency in response to crisis.  That&#039;s why FDR seized the gold, so he could devalue the currency.  Now the currency is no longer tied to gold, so there is no need to seize the gold in order to devalue the currency through printing.  In fact, government does not want to hinder the ownership of gold by private citizens because the way their fiat gets credibility on the world market is by foreigners being able to use it to buy gold if they want to.  And if US citizens are willing to sell their gold for dollars, then the US government doesn&#039;t need to.  Governments want their citizens to hold lots of gold - China, for example, encourages it.  Any gold held within a country, whether in private or government hands, lends credibility to that country&#039;s currency.

Bitcoin, aside from its other problems, is limited in size and thus if you tried to use it as a currency, a medium of exchange, it would be highly deflationary.  It may have use as a wealth reserve asset - something you store money value in, like paintings or land or gold - but it would not have use as a currency.  We have no need of it for that.  Dollars, euros, etc work just fine as a medium of exchange as well as providing governments flexibility.  So, you could store some of your wealth in Bitcoins, but why put anything significant into that untried asset when you can use the premier wealth reserve asset used by all governments and the super-wealthy, gold?  It has an unmatched track record as a wealth storage asset.  That&#039;s why I said Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem.  We already have fiat and gold.  We don&#039;t need Bitcoin - unless you want to transfer money internationally to avoid taxes or sell things illegally, and as I argued, the government can crack down on that in the case of Bitcoin much easier than it can with gold.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without recapping the entire body of argument on fiat money and gold as presented on the FOFOA blog, I would say that a fiat currency that can be &#8220;managed&#8221; by the government of the country that uses it is a valuable tool.  Governments are not going to give that up &#8211; they need the ability to print money and manage the money supply to deal with the various exigencies that arise.  Using gold as currency &#8211; which is what the US was doing when FDR required private citizens to turn in their gold for fiat &#8211; ties the hands of government and prevents it from devaluing the currency in response to crisis.  That&#8217;s why FDR seized the gold, so he could devalue the currency.  Now the currency is no longer tied to gold, so there is no need to seize the gold in order to devalue the currency through printing.  In fact, government does not want to hinder the ownership of gold by private citizens because the way their fiat gets credibility on the world market is by foreigners being able to use it to buy gold if they want to.  And if US citizens are willing to sell their gold for dollars, then the US government doesn&#8217;t need to.  Governments want their citizens to hold lots of gold &#8211; China, for example, encourages it.  Any gold held within a country, whether in private or government hands, lends credibility to that country&#8217;s currency.</p>
<p>Bitcoin, aside from its other problems, is limited in size and thus if you tried to use it as a currency, a medium of exchange, it would be highly deflationary.  It may have use as a wealth reserve asset &#8211; something you store money value in, like paintings or land or gold &#8211; but it would not have use as a currency.  We have no need of it for that.  Dollars, euros, etc work just fine as a medium of exchange as well as providing governments flexibility.  So, you could store some of your wealth in Bitcoins, but why put anything significant into that untried asset when you can use the premier wealth reserve asset used by all governments and the super-wealthy, gold?  It has an unmatched track record as a wealth storage asset.  That&#8217;s why I said Bitcoin is a solution in search of a problem.  We already have fiat and gold.  We don&#8217;t need Bitcoin &#8211; unless you want to transfer money internationally to avoid taxes or sell things illegally, and as I argued, the government can crack down on that in the case of Bitcoin much easier than it can with gold.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Looking for a problem&quot; -- [*facepalm*] 
A radically-politicized chronically-inflationary money system isn&#039;t a problem?
Gold gets seized. FDR already shows that&#039;s what happens. Bitcoin is by far the best mechanism for defending wealth against government predation yet discovered -- and its on a path to further escalation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Looking for a problem&#8221; &#8212; [*facepalm*]<br />
A radically-politicized chronically-inflationary money system isn&#8217;t a problem?<br />
Gold gets seized. FDR already shows that&#8217;s what happens. Bitcoin is by far the best mechanism for defending wealth against government predation yet discovered &#8212; and its on a path to further escalation.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As you know, I find it seriously bizarre that you think having &quot;no corresponding liability&quot; could be a bad thing. It&#039;s sheer debt fetishism. All the non-financial property you own has no corresponding liability. Does that make it worth less? Nick Szabo has an important model treating money as a &quot;collectible&quot; (like exotic stamps). No corresponding liability. No problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you know, I find it seriously bizarre that you think having &#8220;no corresponding liability&#8221; could be a bad thing. It&#8217;s sheer debt fetishism. All the non-financial property you own has no corresponding liability. Does that make it worth less? Nick Szabo has an important model treating money as a &#8220;collectible&#8221; (like exotic stamps). No corresponding liability. No problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Orthodox</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Orthodox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 12:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In order to trade on the exchanges, you have to first transfer your bitcoins into an account. It is the same with stocks: you first have to transfer cash into your account at the broker. If the broker goes bust (like MF Global) you can lose your money. 

So putting your bitcoins into an account with Magic The Gathering Online Exchange was not a good idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order to trade on the exchanges, you have to first transfer your bitcoins into an account. It is the same with stocks: you first have to transfer cash into your account at the broker. If the broker goes bust (like MF Global) you can lose your money. </p>
<p>So putting your bitcoins into an account with Magic The Gathering Online Exchange was not a good idea.</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/monetary-reality/#comment-35382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vimothy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=2199#comment-35382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But MtGox wasn&#039;t a bank, though, was it? It was an exchange. Its users were exposed to counterparty risk, not because they were &#039;using Bitcoin wrong&#039;, but because counterparty risk is a fundamental feature of any financial transaction.

(Of course, if you never try to spend your BItcoin, your exposure to counterparty risk is greatly reduced. The technology works perfectly, for spherical cows in a vacuum.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But MtGox wasn&#8217;t a bank, though, was it? It was an exchange. Its users were exposed to counterparty risk, not because they were &#8216;using Bitcoin wrong&#8217;, but because counterparty risk is a fundamental feature of any financial transaction.</p>
<p>(Of course, if you never try to spend your BItcoin, your exposure to counterparty risk is greatly reduced. The technology works perfectly, for spherical cows in a vacuum.)</p>
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