Neoreactionary Problems

I’m under a sacred obligation to review Bryce Laliberte’s ebook What is Neoreaction? Ideology, Social-Historical Evolution, and the Phenomena of Civilization. Thankfully, this solemn duty was not specifically scheduled. Working towards its accomplishment is a thought-provoking process, which is a good thing.

As a trivial matter, I’m forced to ask: Is that supposed to be ‘phenomena’? ‘Phenomenon’ would be more stylistically persuasive, even if the plural is defensible on conceptual grounds. That kind of side-issue, however, is symptomatic self-distraction. There are serious questions at stake here, and elusive ones.

My prevarication is partly the result of colliding ideas, which have become entangled with the meaning of this book (for me), but are not really internal to its own concerns. Foremost among these is the connotation of the word ‘neoreaction’ itself, sparking an embryonic conversation (at Laliberte’s place, and mine). Terminological issues can easily seem pernickety, or fetishistic, but in this case at least they extend continuously into matters of indisputable substance, and relevance. Summarily: Is ‘neoreaction’ primarily a doctrine or a problem? (Perhaps the question mark unfairly skews the trial.)

In a future post I’ll get back to the specifics of Laliberte’s  extended definition — which is arguably coextensive with the book. It’s of wide-ranging interest, and connects importantly with Nick B. Steves’ search for ‘reactionary consensus‘ (note: no ‘neo-‘). At this point, however, my place-holder remarks are themselves deliberately problematic, referring to the role of paradox and irony in the term, and in the ‘thing’ — elements which are for me essential, but which I suspect Laliberte sees as incidental, or even unfortunate. Neoreaction, from the problematic perspective, is the insistence of a question, rather than a solution struggling to be born into settled doctrine.  It is a word contrived to preserve its own dynamic illegibility (or unstable paradox), at least as much as the name for a program on the path to acceptance (arriving at consensual significance).

Since neoreaction seems to be hurtling towards some kind of recognition, due in no small part to Laliberte’s contributions, these considerations are only arcane on one side of an undeveloped conversation. Most probably, the pace and context of this exchange will be set in unexpected places. Such impending unknowns inevitably guide my path into Laliberte’s book, as it opens, piece by piece, up ahead.

November 14, 2013admin 69 Comments »
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69 Responses to this entry

  • Grotto Says:

    The systematic description of neoreaction is probably unattainable, at least for the next few years. We can hardly agree internally on fairly large portions of the platform, primarily due to what is referred here as the “trichotomy”. Each leg of the trichotomy privileges their core issue. As I’ve said before, I don’t believe an agreement or summary is actually necessary – we have a common enemy, the Cathedral, and that is more than enough for now.

    “The insistence of a question” is one way to put it, but I prefer the framing you used in Horrorist – we are an intellectual protest, whose primary weapon (in the absence of political power) is a principled fatalism. We are passengers on the Titanic, quietly building our own lifeboats, pockets of survival against the coming doom. In the future, perhaps neoreaction can extend its ambition to more active roles, but for now, I think our most effective role is to develop and create intellectual weapons for the dismemberment and dissection of the Cathedral. These weapons can be widely-distributed to all enemies of the Cathedral, regardless of their goals. It would not bother me one bit if some fanatical Islamic Turkish nationalist found neoreaction and used it to spearhead an anti-EU movement with the ultimate goal to restore the Caliphate.

    So, as the question of the definition of neoreaction, my meta-answer would be that we probably don’t need one just yet.

    Now, how would I define (or summarize) neoreaction?

    I believe neoreaction is the advocacy of a political direction (the reactionary direction) supported through the use of scientific findings and post-Enlightenment philosophy. What makes neoreaction distinct from reaction is the different approach. Traditionalist reaction relies on the grandeur and self-evident morality of tradition and authority, and is often as much a nostalgic, emotional appeal as a logical one. Neo-reaction seeks to support and validate tradition through logical, empirical means.

    How then, should a neoreactionary course of study be prescribed? I would suggest taking a page from physics. Physics, perhaps the most logical and systematic of all disciplines, is taught in the most rigidly traditional way – in chronological order. First Newtonian mechanics, then classical electromagnetics and thermodynamics, then a short detour into relativity, then quantum mechanics, and then quantum electrodynamics and chromodynamics, and then onwards into the great unknown of modern theoretical physics. This is the way all physicists have been trained, as the deep study of one level reveals the next, and each physicist retraces the journey that every physicist before him has taken.

    I would suggest the same for neoreaction. The origins of neoreaction are debated, but certainly an important waypoint is Moldbug, and we can trace the subsequent development of ideas from that point. By all means, we should clean-up, summarize and systematize the journey as much as possible, but we shouldn’t try to replace it with a list or clever organizational-chart of ideas. If you’ll notice, this is exactly what Moldbug does in his treatise as well. It is an intellectual journey, and it can’t be shortcut by merely presenting the end result.

    [Reply]

    Diogenes Reply:

    “How should a neoreactionary course of study be prescribed?”

    I’m dubious that it should be prescribed at all, neoreaction being what it is. Nevertheless, the present of neoreaction, like the present of physics, contains its past. Writings in the extreme right blogosphere habitually point us back to Evola, Carlyle, Burke, Machiavelli… at the same time, it is futuristic. The point seems to be to place itself temporally outside the Cathedralic present, rather than determinately in either the past or future.

    Neoreaction as a kind of activity (or a kind of restlessness that brings about that activity) rather than a body of doctrine? The trichotomy as an outline of domains where neoreactionary thought can propagate, rather than a set of competing accounts of it? It’s probably not sound procedure to essentialize anyway…

    [Reply]

    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    >The systematic description of neoreaction is probably unattainable, at least for the next few years. We can hardly agree internally on fairly large portions of the platform, primarily due to what is referred here as the “trichotomy”. Each leg of the trichotomy privileges their core issue. As I’ve said before, I don’t believe an agreement or summary is actually necessary – we have a common enemy, the Cathedral, and that is more than enough for now.

    Am I the only one who doesn’t see a contradiction in the Trichotomy? I’m a transhumanist and an ethno-nationalist (even if tenuously) and a traditionalist. I think Teilhard + Wittgenstein allows you to get that. My use of ‘Omega Point’ was more than inspired.

    *Society* is the superintelligence which augments itself to godhood.

    AIs could be a part of that.

    Or it could be something completely beyond that. Or even something before that.

    I’m saying there’s worlds out there of philosophy to be done, and any chance of putting together one which feasibly gets at reality is one which can adapt itself to all historical experience. I’m charting an unbounded space and declining to mark an end of the world, though I’m certainly open to signposts which say “Here be monsters.”

    [Reply]

    Diogenes Reply:

    I’ve never seen how the branches of the trichotomy could meaningfully conflict unless one tries to essentialize the “meaning” of neoreaction… and as far as I can tell there is no pressing need to do that. What is essential is that neoreaction defines itself against the Cathedral.

    That’s the first time I’ve heard Wittgenstein mentioned in connexion with DE… I’ve always considered myself a Wittgensteinian, more concerned with destroying misconceptions than building “a philosophy”…

    Your point below about semantics is intriguing and captures my engagement with neoreaction…

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    Stay tuned. I bought your book and, when life, work, the family, other projects, etc. let me, I’ll finish preparing my review. We agree on some things and disagree on others, but I would disagree with this:

    ‘I’m saying there’s worlds out there of philosophy to be done’

    Really? Worlds? I don’t know if Land is with you or not, and I’d like to hear his take. But I’m not. I don’t think there’s much work to be done at all, and that most of it was done quite satisfactorily in the past. Then the liberals and progressives arrived, and they thought there was a lot of new work to be done, and novel notions to create, and they’ve been pursuing those imperatives for centuries.

    In terms of semantics, I would say that anything that calls itself a ‘reaction’ inspires an impression of, ‘no, this is the wrong direction, look back’ It’d have been as if a geologist had discovered plate tectonics in the 16th century, then everybody rejected it and chased other erroneous gooses, until, finally saying, “No, actually, it turns out that plate tectonics guy was correct after all”.

    On the other hand, we live in an age of anti-Confucian Orwellian lexicons where the most important ideological words mean the opposite of their typical English valences. Or at least there is open-combat in tribes struggling to win the right to define certain words in highly opposite ways. Of course there is ‘justice’, ‘rights’, ‘freedom’ and all that.

    But these days to be a ‘conservative’ means to conserve leftism. This has gotten so self-satirical that the word ‘traditionalist’ has started to break out amongst fed up people who used to call themselves ‘conservatives’. To be a ‘progressive’ means to champion causes of decay.

    And now ‘reactionaries’ are trying to innovate paths to a brighter future and doing all kinds of new philosophical work?

    It’s confusing to use words this way.

    [Reply]

    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    What’s the point of going to the past if not for it’s help in plotting the future? There’s no possibility of turning back the clock and then keeping society at one specific time. There will be social-historical evolution, and getting tied down to a particular social structure because it happened to work once would be a mistake. We don’t need to recover a lost politics, we need to get outside it.

    There’s always more work to be done, which is why I will never be able to say I’m finished; hence it is unfinished by design.

    Menippus Reply:

    I prefer to think of it as an open-ended collection of attempts to think and organize against and beyond the Cathedral.

    This might be hopelessly naive and simplistic though.

    Handle Reply:

    Ok, there’s some miscommunication here, so I’ll be concise.

    What philosophical work remains to be done? Can you express for me an example of one of these unsolved problems?

    Handle Reply:

    @Bryce Laliberte:

    Ok, there’s some miscommunication here, so I’ll be concise.

    What philosophical work remains to be done? Can you express for me an example of one of these unsolved problems?

    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    >What philosophical work remains to be done?

    In general, or particular to neoreaction?

    In general, philosophy cannot be completed. Every individual who come before the problem that is philosophy comes before it with his own particular inclinations and experience. Answers are a good thing for an individual to have, but one cannot really give another his own answers. We can, however, give each other our reasons. The rest is therapy from there.

    Particular to neoreaction, I can think of several problems yet to be resolved. One of these is “What is neoreaction?” Sure, I’ve put forward an answer, but I’m not assuming there won’t be further development. I even suspect the highly recursive, self-referential nature of neoreaction will make that unable to be answered by the usual means. That’s why I think of neoreaction as less a set of doctrines, but more an approach. We can’t give answers, but we can give reasons.

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    If neoreaction is essentially recognizing reality, then there may be short-term and minor conflicts between the poles of the triad, but in the longterm insanity on any one of them will damage the rest, while emphasizing any one pole at the expense of the others will eventually undermine the goals of that pole too.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 14th, 2013 at 10:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    well despite reading all you guys for a year or two now yet continuing to wonder what archive article i missed, ill throw my two blue collar cents in.And this is off the cuff. Youre not going to have a lot of choice in the framing ,we will be pwnd but of course we knew that. And we know pretty much how. So I think the best defense is neo reaction is a question, which it really is since you all seem to think nothing can be done and even if civilization were somehow reset things like neocameralism monarchy and fascism are the only suggestions thus far and as fun as it is to shock the grownups with such talk they are absurd.
    Its a series of questions stemming from the extreme disconnect between reality and the politically correct orthodoxy.HBD both gender race and feedback loop of culture to specific genetic types. this is of course the main course and what will be attacked, however I think whats to be stressed is that this is a result not so much of our rabid racism as modernities
    radical re ordering of the world along these lines over the last hundred years on the faulty assumption of nurture over nature despite simultaneously using Darwin et al to dismantle the most primal of all social orders -religion.The latest science is fairly clear they have it backwards that even nurture [culture] is more a result of selection though theres a feedback aspect.
    Here we can pick up the tradition throne and alter nonsense as a aspect of HBD though personally I cant see long term how this will work any better for us than it has in the past, so i would play it down and throw in some futurist alternatives.Again I think the idea of a supercomputer ruling us is absurd too, but hey i type with two fingers.
    The third aspect is economics we like free markets not socialism not crony capitalism and we think fiat money is a big part of the problem with governments gone wild.
    government – we think it must work and work efficiently. And we think its gotten out of control because democracy Christianity, classical liberalism even libertarianism are all inherently leftist.So we despair of repair. but we reserve the right of exit.
    Now heres the problem I have, while granting a lot of what Ive read the past year or so is different ,its not that different from a lot of strains of conservatism.its not original except possibly in moldbugs turning it into this lord of the Cathedral trilogy. In other words when speaking generally the arguments will be the same old divisions same old back and forth. whats different is there are a lot of quants in our crowd and the genetics have progressed.and the liberal experiments are obviously failures now. and their world is in tatters. But they wont care to listen to the details any more than they were moved by Milton Friedman, Tip Oneal Ayn Rand ,or Fr Neuhaus,Nietzsche Seneca or a couple thousand others or Its not clear if they are even capable of thought, what they pursue seems to assure their eventual destruction. I think we would better spend our time being more practical about what could really be done you know without actually cloning Fredrick the great or Mussolini or HAL 9000.
    Ill throw a couple Ideas out since ive already made an ignoramus of my self,
    Maybe we could concede man is fallen and this world will never be perfection, take some hard lessons on HBD economics etc and re try classical libertarianism again in full knowledge where we went wrong and where we are likliest to fall again
    The fascism angle I think is what we already have. say you were in the Illuminati and the rand corp gave you the malthusian rundown would we really do any better – oh yeah I think so but im willing to deport 100 million non europeans and repeal womens suffrage short of those broad strokes the new world order seems like they are trying to get by and pay off everyone who needs to be bribed to manage things, imnot defending them just saying if we cloned Mussolini i dont think he could get the AA hires to run the trains on time and I dont see how a king is any less authoritative or substantially different than Obama or king George just because there was once a good king so what.So the question is can we overthrow this govt and deport the vibrants and make sure our wives never have more than two of three of the car keys, shoes , credit card- or must we broker a deal with putin to turn russia into Galts Gulch.
    sorry for spelling and punctuation i only have an 8th grade education

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    “sorry for spelling and punctuation i only have an 8th grade education” — oh come on! That’s pure theater.

    Lot’s of valuable points in this — to me especially: “The fascism angle I think is what we already have.”

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    actually its true but i read a lot obviously haven’t done much writing since the early seventies lol
    Yeah i think fascism is a fair description. And I admit im sentimental about the bill of rights and Ayn rands libertarianism not Caplans If I dont think about it too much latin mass can even be appealing And think a logical way forward would be a sort of outsourcing of government even recolonizing countries if they want under contract government god knows they cant run themselves.So is there a chance of educating undermining pwning USG to do these things if not can it be crashed I think either are possible for smart people the beast moves slowly and is blind. I think some exits are feasible.
    But what I dont see as easy is us. I really dont see much agreement on anything other than as grotto says we hate the cathedral.And we are HBD realists.Theres a lot of national socialist small n/s type thinking so I dont think we are agreed on economics, I really dont think Christianity if taken traditionally can be absorbed as anything more than something someone does irrationally in their spare time, Without getting long winded its killing conservatism -yes its also supporting it but…The HBD thing is really the lynchpin its ugly yet its our core because without facing it head on nothing can be settled. socialism vs brute capitalism isn’t really that important if you are talking about a nation of high IQ culturally confident white guys the same goes for type of government or religion etc, its trying to build a one size fits all nation that doesn’t work. I sometimes imagine what might we be capable of if we were free of the burden Ill bet we could have massive welfare rights but no one on welfare because whites would be free to shame slackers to the core, we could have the highest standards in schools que John Lennon imagine no trillion a year in welfare spending,or law enforcement too, no public education, no NGOs and community organizations clean and safe public restrooms re instate things like baggage checkrooms . the third world would be better off in there own cultures theyre selected for and we would be so much richer we would be able to help them more and rationally even morally, hey Nigeria if Chinese management doest meet your expectations let Hewlett Packard bid next round, But of course its considered hate, you can argue that admitting differences and hate are completely different things you will never get anywhere. I collapsed country might be unappealing to the least self sufficient but it would likely be ugly.I just cant figure out what the elite end game is. We are at a demographic tipping point once it goes we will end up a sort of slave that has no where to exit yet unable to vote or fight our way out of being squeezed more and more as a sort of highly educated slave for the purposes of the Eric Holders of the world.Ever see the movie Disgrace-not a pretty picture. so I disagree we can just do nothing, we need to change the dynamic soon,A puzzle can seem unsolvable until viewed from an un thought of angle.Sure we like order but if chaos is inevitable then one wants it when one is strongest

    [Reply]

    Kgaard Reply:

    Michael … The shangri-la you posit where everything runs as it’s supposed to … I’ve been there. It’s Japan! It’s amazing to walk around that country. It’s exactly what you are describing. It’s like getting in a time machine and going back 50 years in the US.

    But that raises challenges — because Japan, even with its high-IQ, high-conscience racial purity, has a lot of problems. Women don’t want to get married or have kids. People generally seem kind of bummed out and feel like they live in a boring country. A million young people are too ashamed to leave their house because they can’t get a good job. It’s a really nice place, don’t get me wrong. I always like going there. But when I try to think of solutions in the US, I always think, “Well, okay, Japan has basically done that and they still have xx problem.”

    I had a date with a Japanese woman recently. Her father was like 65 or 70 and just came to the US for the first time a few years ago. “Was he horrified?” I asked. “No!” she said. “He loves it here. He thinks it’s a lot more fun and exciting than Japan.”

    Seems to me that there is an argument that the US is going to come out okay precisely because we are going to LOSE the racial purity argument (and the Europeans and Japanese may largely win it). We will have a strong economy and be on the cutting edge of the intersection between the present and the future. And they won’t. They’ll be museums of the past, like Venice.

    Now … granted … I could just as easily argue the other side of this (and frequently do). But I’m wearing out on the immigration argument in particular. I’m just tired of it. Our women aren’t having babies and the oligarchs need bodies who will work cheap, so importing people is what WILL happen. What am I gonna do about it other than accept that this is the way of the world?

    Peter Turchin addresses this problem in War and Peace and War. He says the Romans grew by assimilation of neighboring tribes — whereas its competitors wouldn’t do that and thus floundered. Turchin does say that Rome “never crossed the meta-ethnic divide” when assimilating, which is noteworthy. But one could certainly argue that it’s a smaller deal today than back then, when German hordes were coming down over the mountains and scalping people.

    Anyway … a few thoughts.

    Posted on November 14th, 2013 at 10:55 pm Reply | Quote
  • amosandgromar Says:

    “As a trivial matter, I’m forced to ask: Is that supposed to be ‘phenomena’? ‘Phenomenon’ would be more stylistically persuasive, even if the plural is defensible on conceptual grounds. That kind of side-issue, however, is symptomatic self-distraction. There are serious questions at stake here, and elusive ones.”

    I think the use of ‘phenomena’ suggests that it’s not civilization per se that he’s talking about *directly* here. Rather it is the phenomena that civilization produces. But if he meant the first meaning, then clearly the plural is wrong.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Yes, the reason I posed it as a stylistic matter is that it has the appearance of a grammatical error, even if it is in fact perfectly correct.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2013 at 12:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Bryce Laliberte Says:

    >Is that supposed to be ‘phenomena’?

    Yes. I think of the phenomena of civilization as being a number of correlative laws such as are used by economists (or at least the more Austrian types). Well, really, they’re all economic laws from one perspective, provided you’re using a sufficiently broad enough definition of “market.”

    >Foremost among these is the connotation of the word ‘neoreaction’ itself

    You really like to scratch this itch.

    >Terminological issues can easily seem pernickety, or fetishistic, but in this case at least they extend continuously into matters of indisputable substance, and relevance.

    “The limits of my language are the limits of my world.” He who cannot diagnose his own language cannot diagnose his own world. Semantics is as hard as metaphysics. It is an absolute mistake to leave out semantics.

    >Is ‘neoreaction’ primarily a doctrine or a problem?

    I think of it as an approach. It isn’t political philosophy, or at least there are no “doctrines,” rather, principles to which we give reverence. A favorite of mine, that we make human nature a feature in the system, not a bug. I think there’s a lot more about human nature to be understood; evolutionary psych qua Game barely scratches at the surface of how the atoms of society, i.e. individuals, are constituted by a psychological interface out of which arises the phenomena of civilization. Chemistry and economics describe analogous phenomena.

    >(Perhaps the question mark unfairly skews the trial.)

    You can’t separate philosophy from the rhetoric; articulation is the matter of idea. Invert the question: Neoreaction is primarily a doctrine or a problem. This seems to illuminate back to its form as approach.

    >In a future post I’ll get back to the specifics of Laliberte’s extended definition — which is arguably coextensive with the book.

    I don’t think it’s coextensive. I think of the first half being concerned with the question of ideology as a topic of study, while the second half goes into the political enumerations of neoreactionarily formed concerns, which one might consider as either doctrine or problem. But then that is only my own interpretation, and I would hate it if that was the only one produced.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2013 at 7:26 am Reply | Quote
  • Roger Revolutionary Says:

    Neoreaction is commentary on neoreaction.

    Coextensive with Kindle Direct Publishing, it synthesises everything. It has no beginning, no end and no middle.

    It’s dark enlightenment all the way down.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @Roger Revolutionary

    OUCH

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2013 at 6:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Well if you want to accomplish anything admit you are defined in part by an Enemy – The Cathedral – and attack, attack, attack.

    It’s not so bad having nothing except weapons.

    Empires began that way. Most of them I think.

    Turkomen Proverb: Submit or You have a farm and a house. I have a horse and a whip. I will kill you and leave.

    [Reply]

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    The doctrine of Abasiya more or less says that a good enemy is what inseminates the birth of nationhood.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2013 at 5:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • Peter A. Taylor Says:

    @Handle, Bryce

    You guys are arguing opposite positions from what I would have expected. The Christians have got the Big Guy upstairs to tell them what’s good and bad (if they can only be sure they heard Him correctly). It’s the atheists who need to work out meta-ethics from scratch. Maybe the Epicureans did some of this work?

    [Reply]

    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    I know what good and bad are.

    The problem is applying the concepts to the world. That’s rather difficult.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    It wasn’t my intention to argue meta-ethics at all. Bryce said there was philosophical work to be done. I’m skeptical, so I wanted to know what he meant by that. I’m still not satisfied. He answers, “What is neoreaction” which is a ‘problem of philosophy’ from a certain perspective, perhaps, but not mine.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2013 at 7:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @Michael
    Kgaard
    I think you assume too many things.Im born and raised in NYC my mothers from London. Im aware of the benefits of a international city or Country. America would always be a more interesting place than Japan. WE are a meta European country so unlike Japan we have a mix of many cultures even if they were all white. But non citizens traveling living temporarily even permanently as non citizens would add to the vibrancy also we could also travel.What changes is we need not apologize for culture and it would resume flourishing. Perhaps you think HipHop a contribution i dont.Have you not noticed Hip Hop as an example isnt in addition to but has eclipsed our culture. There is probably some cultural dunbar number. Also america has a dynamic of its own that made it socially more than the some of its European parts long before the 64 immigration act and yes before we freed the slaves.
    Perhaps the only novel Idea I have found in the reactosphere is a sort of hesitancy about economics.Always extreme about free markets certain things rad around reaction made me start thinking freemarkets are loved as an end to a means, if they no longer serve the average citizen something needs adjusting .I dont say that lightly I gag as i say it but massive immigration is not really free markets its triangulating third world dysfuction for the benefit of elites.Whats missing from the massive money printing inflation, is the wage spiral, and thats because of oversupply of labor.As if this were not bad enough its a low iq highly fecund highly violent people already indoctrinated in white hate, who it seems can now hold the deciding vote in matters of existential threat to the nation.It matters not that many of these are fine people and some percentage even intelligent the majority is what moves the needle.Libertarians like liberals suffer from the delusion the world is like them and their friends, its not.I have a very odd background and move freely in both ends of the social spectrum. I grew up in the ghettos of new york though not poor as children do my brothers and I adapted eventually I came to work in a blue collar industry that was taken over due to affirmative action by mostly blacks and Hispanics many of them immigrant. I also live part year in a 90% black Caribbean neighborhood as a gentrifying speculator I can literally tell a honduran from a trinidadian at 20 paces . So all im saying and will say is not born of hate but almost 60 years of experience. I dearly love many non whites and am always open about my beliefs with everyone and am loved and respected certainly I am thought of as knowing the score. And here it is. You have no idea what is going on under the surface. Blacks and Hispanics and now they are joined by others like arabs asians and even Europeans have contempt for everything you hold dear. They openly not only pay no taxes but scam the treasury dept for tens of billions of dollars they have systems to defraud everything from mass transit welfare to whatevr corporation they got an AA job from. An 85 IQ is not high enough to do things like construction work white collar people have no clue about blue collar work.Guys in my Union make almost 200K a year with benefits yet to a man have a minimum of two and a average of thre baby mamas on welfare that they do no support they do things like buy porche SUVs and Hermes Belts instead of homes then sue for disparate impact – I could write a book on whats going on, whats scary is they are now running a lot of our government. You can not reason with an 85 IQ they simply smile they know and sometimes will even articulate that time is on their side.There is not going to be some futuristic star trek world. Its going to be brutal the elites are mad they will not be able to rule over this was the washington post able to punish Eric Holder give it thirty years

    [Reply]

    kgaard Reply:

    Michael — Good points. I really can’t quibble with anything you say. I am hiding out in the Northern Virginia suburbs, which at this point have to be over 50% immigrant. Around here the immigrants seem pretty subdued. I don’t sense the overt hostility that you are seeing in NYC — but I have no doubt you are right in what you see.

    Our women aren’t having enough babies. That is the crux of the entire matter, is it not? Single women are staying single longer and voting left-er than ever. Did you see the results of the VA governor’s race? McAuliffe, slime that he is, carried the single-woman vote by a 42-point margin.

    You are completely right on hip-hop music. I find it horrifying. Avoid it at all times. Unfortunately it’s just as bad in Europe. If anything it’s even worse with the hip-hop in Europe — even fully-white countries like Ukraine listen to the most god-awful american music you can imagine.

    The whole thing is depressing. I find myself creating my own personal Elysium. For instance, I have started going to the Washington Symphony Orchestra. I live in a nice neighborhood. Arrange my life around things and places that suit me. The same possibilities are available in NYC. There are nice parts around here and in NYC as well. I think the only hope is to just self-segregate and let the chips fall where they may. I’m hitting the road again too, heading to Europe and Asia for a month. That’s another helpful solution.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    The unbroken stream-of-thought format is quite exhausting, but this comment is awesome — by the final section it’s become the screenplay for some kind of documentary horror movie.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2013 at 10:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @Michael
    LOL yeah I went to see the ring cycle last year, Sort of played out on classic rock and started listening to classical which I was introduced to in a pretty European upbringing. Trying to pass this upbringing down to my daughter has proved all but impossible in the environment we live.I live half my life in a Rocky mountain Homestead
    Yes no white children I started to address that but got off on a tangent. Whites wages are suppressed by immigration and diluted by inflation caused by buying immigrant votes. I don’t think a trillion a year in welfare to say nothing of the other costs I previously considered exaggerates the cost. This denies whites the security and dignity they require for family formation. Recently its been noted Hispanics put off having children in Mexico and then have baby booms once on American welfare.So while I concede their may be a correlation between GDP and population [though Im not sure and not sure it will hold or cant be worked around] its a viscous cycle which will get worse as we need less unskilled workers. Even now our white IQ is 101 and IQ seems to revert to the mean. So we cant count on Bill and Melinda to spawn the next Steve Jobs Joe sixpack must be supported if not for his sake then for ours. Conversely even if we imported only the highest IQ blacks and Hispanics Their children too will revert to their racial mean of 85.This is a range that even now requires extensive external support trust me I spend my days trying to coach all black and Hispanic crews through building skyscrapers they are so obtuse its hard to imagine.I used to note a difference between say Caribbean blacks or Mexicans with say American blacks and Puerto ricans thats largely disappeared now. I find for instance that few young Hispanics believe in God anymore .On the other hand they are well versed in victimology. While even I was surprised when I really got a grasp of the crime and violence statistics through the quants here in the Dark enlightenment.Its more like terrorism most muslims are not terrorists but they would not report it they would not condemn it they would protect terrorists on familial tribal religious grounds and so they really are terrorists. Travon Martin was in fact a violent drug addicted thug who recently had assaulted a bus driver, and been caught with burglary tools and stolen jewelry, yet our president felt perfectly at ease comparing himself to trayvon. this goes on at a scale whites have no clue of. The IRS sued to be allowed to continue to let illegal aliens defraud the treasury dept by claiming childcare credits. A common ruse among aliens is to works a couple months on the books so one can file a tax return under a fictitious name and taxpayer id number the IRS gives illegal aliens to facilitate fraud. they then get all taxes back because they made to little but also claim fictitious child credits and get thousands in addition to all the taxes they paid back. Cato likes to make much of immigrant businesses anyone living long in the hood would know this is because small business loans for minorities is a great scam and if you want to actually try and make a go of the business organizations like ACORN will make sure you’re even given the clients through racially mandated set asides. anyone who has black friends will be offered five fingered discounts on everything from airline tickets to home depot gift cards blacks steal from employers allow friends figure out how to steal from employers its epidemic. Like i said I could write a long book on what I know from the inside.The violence is bad enough now and well hidden by the media what worries me is our assumption we can always clamp down if it gets out of control. This is already not true in many areas and even where it is a thug like Erik Holder can always reach out as we lose elections we will lose control of the handles of power at a point in the not too distant future our lifetimes we will be powerless in a world of people taught by marxists to hate us.
    for a while arriving at this point I wondered at what point and how we could have arrested this process. I thought well if we had kept it at just the descendents of our slaves and recognized they had poor future time orientation etc so kept a sort of strict paternalism .But of course that is what we did do and it wasnt sustainable. You cant keep a people in a perpetually different status. Blacks and Hispanics are genetically different I wish it were not so if only for selfish reasons but it is there is no society we can create that will make that sustainable it will favor one or the other or simultaneously treat co citizens differently. I dont think this even helps them or is moral to them.

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    Dude. Paragraphs.

    [Reply]

    Thales Reply:

    Maybe they don’t teach those ’till ninth grade…

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2013 at 12:43 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Mike speaks the ground truth. Can’t disagree. On any point.

    The victimology is the schools and popular culture. Both gotta go.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2013 at 12:03 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Grand Torino shows a lot of what was lost. The ending and resolution gives into Prog martyr shit, but even they know what was lost.

    Any important job in life is an apprenticeship.

    There is no way to ISO 9000 being A MAN. And that’s what’s missing.

    For sons woman-raised are cunts without wombs.

    Ergo…

    Ubi schola significat ignem liberi sumus. Ubi scholis et nos servi sunt.

    [Reply]

    Crates Reply:

    “Where we are free signifies fire school. Where are the schools and we are servants.”?

    I never sat down and watched Gran Torino, but I don’t recall any firefighters in the trailer…

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Any important job in life is an apprenticeship.
    ===================================
    BREAK INSERTED. or I should have perhaps…

    the rest is mine, not clints

    [Reply]

    Kgaard Reply:

    VXXC: I agree with you on Gran Torino, to a point. The ending was just what you say — giving in to prog bullshit. But let’s not forget that Clint’s character was already extremely degraded. The dude worked on an ASSEMBLY LINE for 50 years. Back when Henry Ford and his ilk were first setting those things up, they could barely keep them staffed because skilled tradesmen (most people in those days) would run away in horror at the boredom of it after about one shift.

    If I remember my Greek mythology correctly, there was a blacksmith god by the name of Hephestus. He was always pissed off because nobody would pay any attention to him. The moral there, I think, is that blue collar workers have ALWAYS been ignored, throughout history. Man doesn’t place the highest value on just building stuff. He places a higher value on arts, political leadership and the talent of (for lack of a better term) economic planning (even at the tribal level).

    So, I wonder if Clint’s character is really sort of a delusion. I mean … if you can actually find a Korean war vet who worked 50 years on an assembly line in Detroit I don’t think he’d be as impressive as Clint. At all.

    Where I see that Clint-like dignity is in the oilfield workers I encounter in my periodic drives across the country.

    But overall, I suppose a case can be made that a lot more freedom etc is being created in the independent contractor type tech jobs that are springing up everywhere. As more and more of these things develop, you are seeing more and more gravitation to libertarian philosophies. Perhaps that is one reason Cuccinelli WON the 18-24 year old vote in Virginia? (I am not a techie so am not talking my own book on this point.)

    And as far as physicality, I grant that is a tough one. I don’t have an answer except for the one most everyone else is forced to go to: Eat well, work out, hope for the best. I am always thinking of relocating to a country where the food is better … I lose 5-8 pounds every time I leave the US of A.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    thanks. I am thinking not so much of his work as his training the Hmong fatherless boy to be a man.

    Also that he took no shit from punk gangsters.

    That movie *should* be set say 20 years ago…more than now. Say 20 years ago in El Paso or LA.

    My take of the Blue Collar old timers view of their work – these were in my town the sons of men who came from either Ireland or Italy and work was providing for family. It was a job and that’s all. Far more true of the ones off the boat. They understood their work was for their children who would have more choices…also I consider that the priorities of a family man are [or better be] different. They care about their families first, everything else second. Woman it is you and me and kids against the world.

    Which is fine.

    What was lost was manhood. Fred Reed just wrote a Taki column about this…his point being women out of schools. Yes. But they also need to recognize that if there’s kids there needs to be a Father for so many reasons beyond a check.

    Also what was lost was the old time American he represents, in fact not dissimilar to men around the world. EEEEK somebody called me a name. We’ve lost our manhood in the name of equality.

    Women can’t raise men. They’ll raise pussies, victims. gangsters, pimps, puzzle-loids but not MEN.

    That was one of the points of that movie.

    Now after that a radical solution is posited, based on experience. it’s a tactic on say the farther end of the spectrum. it will make the point finally.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2013 at 12:08 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    I think its beyond our school system which is of course a little commie factory. They seem to arrive in America already conversant in Frankish. The NGOs The Churches and certainly American media do their bit but I think mostly The Cathedral Has Trained the Elites of the world in our Universities Our textbooks laws and customs are copied. An overthrow is going to get worldwide pushback.
    The blue collar world is full of 50 something guys that are above average intelligence but not educated. They escaped the cognitive net the Belll curve describes by being some variation of socially maladaptive some didnt finish even high school, a lot of recovering alcoholics and addicts some just got caught up for a while in thuggishness and crime but eventually met a good woman. the various trade unions were good for guys like that still would be if not under court ordered integration. Men are allowed to act like men there,because none but men will do the job .they are paid a mans wage and what I like best we can come and go as one pleases if I take every summer or five years off none asks about the gap in my resume. I can go on to another Employer and yet my pensions and IRAs healthcare etc remain the same. Certainly there were some abuses when unions were strong they are being strangled to death now. And I am not talking about public unions that dont compete with the private sector and get to vote for their bosses. thats another problem
    As a libertarian i thought of them more as descending from the old guild system,Also its free market of labor we have skills and negotiate for it. Why when say 150 people are involved on some 200 million dollar business deal no one questions salaries like ours but the 150 guys involved in building a 200 million office tower are thought to be overpaid. However to the extent its socialist ,Which is a strain at least at the organizational level does exist. I think its a relatively necessary compromise until another can be invented to give the security and dignity men need for family formation,statistically these are the men ,not Bill gates himself that will throw the next bill gates . Also as I said blue collar work is not as easy as you think My IQ is 130 and Im challenged daily granted im a foreman but I think 100 is a bare minimum of diminishing returns for workers. Minorities are simultaneously displacing and destroying our blue collar industries.Its also sisyfying our men who have never done anything physical, which I think is also a drain on the industrial creativity of America. I spend half my time in rural america where white blue collar guys are the norm and more intelligent on average because college is less a norm. These guys are brilliant the things they invent usually free to their bosses,the things they get done in clever ways can be quite impressive. But of course immigration is driving wages down and real estate and everything else up through inflation to pay for immigration and so they dont have children which elites thinks means we need more Mexicans. so we get to pay jose $15 hr instead of $30 but then he collects 35k a year in welfare for his extended family the sap still making the $30 is giving %10 to jose and having his kids sign an IOU for the balance. even if jose was bright his kids wont be and by then we will have few low skilled jobs left. whats to be done with our native citizens of only average IQs. What is the real cost of immigration when NGOs and law and court systems education etc are calculated can elites be so stupid.And what would a smaller country be like personally it feels crowded to me, I think its false that we would be poorer i think we would be richer we would flourish again, perhaps some multinational corps would sell less IPhones if we weren’t subsidizing them too bad. A distinction should be made between American business and international business. I could be wrong but its starting to seem like we dont get much out of these companies yet we provide quite a lot they cant get elsewhere.I know im starting to sound like michael moore I loath socialism im more Ayn Rand than but as I said capitalism free markets are not loved for their elegance as for they efficiently provide a good for those of us providing a market. I think whats going on here is the people negotiating with google have a different agenda. Like is a back door not a sort of kickback
    Heres the problem we’re describing national socialism. I have been an extreme libertarian since about 20 and while a natural race realist like many city people never a hater.Unless im fresh off N stix true crime stories or somewhere im still not a hater.so whats the plan wait till the commies start rioting then make our move? Funny I have warned liberal friends my whole life their antics would clause a fascist backlash never think I would be part of it
    I like gran torino it was quite race realist for hollywood, and I though Clint’s support for the GOP was brave.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @Michael

    “An overthrow is going to get worldwide pushback.” BINGO

    “I spend half my time in rural america where white blue collar guys are the norm and more intelligent on average because college is less a norm. These guys are brilliant the things they invent usually free to their bosses,the things they get done in clever ways can be quite impressive” – BINGO

    Immigration – BINGO.

    Ron Unz just attended an NYC elites debate on immigration. His side lost the initial vote.

    When he explained what passing the current slate would mean in terms of poverty and backlash they voted again and won by a wider margin than lost.

    These smart people AREN’T and they’re completely out of touch.

    and God help them. They are oblivious to what is now almost certainly coming.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    yeah I watched that debate Caplan i would consider a communist not a libertarian no one argued particularly well but he was really stupid sounding/ What I found interesting was the largely very liberal Jewish upper west side nyc audience – you have no idea trust me. But they got unz point that we cant save everybody and must morally stick up for your citizens.
    AS you just said and i have too the Cathedral is full of contradictions that could be hammered away at, but of course if the media doesn’t allow you to embarrass you are left with only

    [Reply]

    kgaard Reply:

    Ha … interesting about Upper West Side jews. I used to live there and until recently had long political arguments with a lifelong liberal Brooklyn jew. I think there is some movement possible in the rank and file of jewry. There is so much daylight between their economic interests (not to mention generally sober way of living) and the implications of the Cathedral philosophy that you can actually get some traction with some of them. And of course this phenomenon of polar-bear hunting or knockout-the-jew I think may end up having huge political ramifications. Those surveillance photos of good citizens being knocked cold by gangs of black youth … that is powerful stuff. And the interviews with the neighborhood black kids — who laugh about it — are equally powerful.

    Posted on November 17th, 2013 at 2:40 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    PS – I figured out why they are sealing many fates, above all their own.

    Because I guess that’s what God wants.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2013 at 7:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @Michael
    yeah i saw that i live in crown heights half years these jews are orthodox and vote conservative.
    but being a new yorker im kind of fond of jews sure they can really drive you nuts but they are smart and funny. i certainly think they are worth a try they have a lot of clout if they could be flipped it would be blow against the cathedral
    they are natural race realists they are quite aware they are different and they have a realistic view of other races.i wonder how they will react to the 85% European mitochondrial dna in ashkenazi might make them friendlier . they are also of course free market if they could be convinced they will be safer in a white ethnostate than a multicultural one- yeah not going to happen

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 18th, 2013 at 3:26 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Here’s as racist as I’ll get. We – Whites – must reclaim our heritage and the mantle of power, governance, culture, finance, law. Since our elites have utterly degenerated into madness and evil it’s going to have to come from what isn’t degenerated into madness and evil.

    Liberties for all can and should be preserved [unless you want to kill or permanently oppress 1/3 of the country]. The matter is who manages the levers .

    We must claim back the levers from the mad, those who wish us harm for our skins, those who merely alight here for a bit and loot. None of these should rule. None should vote either. The levers – including the Franchise – must return to the main culture. Power from the Franchise up should come from those fit to wield power.

    There are wellsprings. The Salt of The Earth types, aka the BackCountry types [see Albion’s Seed]. Scotch-Irish and their associated cultures both rural and urban working class. We’ve been doing the fighting and building, working. Time to step up, for New England has gone utterly mad. New England has also ruled too long.

    The Heroes: Police, Firefighters, Military. That’s proven selfless service [your life for strangers] and experience in goverance. They are also the few if not last bastions of honest government, that is they are not pervasisvely corrupt. This allows anyone into the levers by merit. It also makes sure that the levers are wielded by people who understand life, death, people at their best and worst.

    [Heroes by the way are generational as either vocations or a term of service, I mean it’s running through families. There is some culural overlap – cultural – with the Scotch Irish Culture].

    If anyone thinks Americans will live without Liberties, let their neighbors languish without them, or reverse 1000 years of Anglo-Saxon self government they’re mad. It’s not the people, it’s the levers.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 18th, 2013 at 11:46 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    @Michael

    As Americans everything. As a people nothing. No levers.

    No fsking pogroms either.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 18th, 2013 at 11:47 am Reply | Quote
  • Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Says:

    @VXXC

    You said: “Here’s as racist as I’ll get. We – Whites – must reclaim our heritage and the mantle of power, governance, culture, finance, law.”

    Can you explain why “we” need to do this, without saying something more racist than what you said previously? I doubt it.

    After all, (people will say) race doesn’t exist, Americans are Americans regardless of race, color or creed and in the future we’ll all be blended into one race.

    You’re just arguing for white privilege, without providing a rationale for that privilege. (If you do provide that rationale, things tend to get pretty racist.)

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    Our existence is our justification. If you want some philosophic justification I’m sorry but there isn’t one for anybody that would make a modern liberal happy.

    Why should the Jews have their own home land? Why should they not be forced to blend in? Why should they be allowed to preserve their power, governance, culture, finance, and law? Because they exist, that is their justification. Because these things are the meaning of their existence and that meaning was given by evolution. They are driven by their inclusive fitness to defend hearth and home.

    Why did Moses commit genocide? Why did the Israelites slaughter entire populations only to keep the women to be raped pregnant? Because that’s what organisms do to survive in this world, vae victis.

    All talk about morals or god or whatever is the rationalizations we give ourselves to justify our deep Darwinian motives.

    Why should we defend Europeans? Because they are our in-group (except for the treasonous liberals), and no other justification is needed. The same would be true if we were Jews / Muslims / Martians.

    [Reply]

    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    I agree, of course, but that’s not really my point.

    He said “Here’s as racist as I’ll get. We – Whites – must reclaim our heritage and the mantle of power, governance, culture, finance, law.”

    People who are already racist and who see whites as their in-group are likely to agree. I certainly do.

    But he said he was unwilling to get any more racist than that. So I’m wondering how he intends to back up his statement or explain the rationale behind it, without making additional racist statements.

    I’m not asking him to make those racist statements on this blog, I’m just encouraging him to think about how far he can really get by playing the “not racist” game.

    [Reply]

    kgaard Reply:

    Yeah, the whites-as-in-group-that-must-be-defended position seems doomed to fail. There are simply too many non-whites WHO LIKE WHITE PEOPLE and are top-notch citizens. Categories collapse pretty fast. For instance, many higher-class Latinos are just as much European as Latino. How about Indians (as in people from India). They are racially very close to white — and even look like white people except for their skin color. They are generally very pro-American. Even Ed West in his book The Diversity Illusion says Indians are one of the few bright spots in England’s immigration mess.

    In the Washington DC area, race is already breaking down as a measure of anything because there are so many people of so many hues and combinations and degrees of American-ness that you just can’t hope to keep track of it all. If you want to go to a place where everybody’s white, well, they probably all are going to weigh 300 pounds and consider Dancing with the Stars as high culture. I just don’t think whiteness as a sorting characteristic is gonna get very far as a practical matter …

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    You’re way to down on majority white areas. Don’t spread Cathedral propaganda.

    Kgaard Reply:

    Puzzle Pirate — There’s one more point I want to bring up. Evola himself actually campaigned against the idea of using race as a marker of in-group status, though he did waffle here. (Sometimes he would refer to blacks and middle-easterns as being of “southern and exotic” races and it was pretty clear he thought them inferior.) That said, his larger principle was that the only people who matter were “differentiated” men — and the differentiated man could come from any race at any time. It was certainly not lost on Evola that the Indians were the ones who came up with some of the deepest esoteric teachings. And of course Nietzsche and the Buddha were basically on the same page.

    Evola battled with the fascists in Italy on the racial point. It’s a key thing that sets him apart from the race-firsters in Germany and Italy in the pre-WWII era. I understand today’s situation is different and the immigration issue is more intense. But the problem with the eurocentric view is that the intellectual ground on which it stands is actually not that strong. Europeans themselves (as in, people who live in Europe) can make a stronger case with appeals to “French-ness” or “Dutchness” or “Hungarian-ness” but in America we really can’t make that kind of case. Put that together with the fact that smart white women aren’t having enough babies and the roadmap looks pretty well set, I think.

    [Reply]

    Antisthenes Reply:

    It’s essential to focus on the clear and unambiguous findings of HBD research, and not to assume from that outset that race is some sort of intractable sorites problem, just because there happen to be lots of shades of brown in one place at one time.

    Michael Reply:

    theres the rub the truth is ugly even to we dark knights

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotto Says:

    @Michael

    There’s a lot of good stuff in your writing. You’re like a reverse Moldbug, a stream-of-consciousness torrent that is characterized by a brutalist lack of style, rather than Moldbug’s Rococo-esqe literary flourish. You remind me of a right-wing talk show host.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 18th, 2013 at 10:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • Prudence Says:

    Can someone explain “revert to the mean”? If a man with an IQ of 100, from a population with a mean IQ of 100, marries a woman with an IQ of 100, from a population with a mean IQ of 90, and IQ is 50% genetic and 50% environmental, what is the expected IQ of their children?

    [Reply]

    Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Reply:

    Potato

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    im not expert or even amatuer on this but roughly if you get into sites like gene expression human varieties HBDchick Jayman west hunter the mendelian formulas from biology class will come back or not. Even then intelligence isnt a single gene so really we only have the statistical results to work back from for now. And keep in mind [since your question implies it] one thing that seems to me unresolved is the question of admixture, black in africa are another SD lower than black in western countries. Some have thought its the white admixture, I suspect it is nutrient iodine in fact i think that may be the flynn effect cause. hybrid vigour is another possibility, or even rapid evolution. so you mix marriage question makes a complicated question something omly moldbug could compute.
    It seems to me the 50% environment thats bandied about is more political cover or propaganda, when its really discussed technically its more like 80% at least genetic.after basic nutritional needs are met.
    So again roughly if you and you mate were from the same population but say a standard deviation higher yourselves your children will revert to their mean about half way and grandchildren the rest of the way but it might be more like you have one very one pretty smart kid and one average. as the bell curve argues cognitive elites are meeting and mating at harvard but it will take a long time for that to show results and in that time the players change so really as i said the future Einsteins will statistically come from the random outliers of average people who are so numerous they will have some long shots.
    The really depressing thing in my mind what makes us all dark is the reverse. The AA Huxtables who meet at harvard will have kids that revert to a really low mean a mean below our average so for instance and roughly if they had 100 IQs their kids would probably turn out dumber than the kids of two white parents with 85 IQS.
    now to the mixed race couple I think it help if you have a white parent-BUT non african blacks average about 20% white but this doesnt help them so if having a white parent help you it wont help the grandkids.at all.
    Now considering blacks have a lot of other genetically determined not so great social skills, do you really want them with enhanced intelligence? . Sounds mean but if we are to be a minority among violent low future time oriented promiscuous high self esteemed faster individuals do you really want to find a way to make them smarter?

    [Reply]

    Prudence Reply:

    Is “environmental” something like reading to your children, which is a cultural trait that is likely to be passed from parent to child? Or is it a euphemism for random fetal development events that are not likely to be repeated? Does Suzy’s 10 IQ points above the population average mean that she is an outlier with good genes, or that two kinds of bad genes happened to randomly and freakishly cancel each other out on that particular roll of the dice?

    [Reply]

    Antisthenes Reply:

    I’ve never heard of bad genes ‘cancelling each other out’ in some sort of analogy with mathematics. It’s likely that a +10 IQ point increase is genetic, although having seen a number of IQ tests it wouldn’t surprise me if training in formal logic (environmental) boosted one’s IQ score. I can’t see that childhood reading would vastly improve IQ score beyond conferring the basic linguistic resources needed to comprehend the test itself.

    If Suzy’s IQ is 110 and the mean is 100, she’s not a true outlier, just on the brighter side of the population (‘outliers’ are 2 sds from the mean if I remember correctly).

    [Reply]

    Prudence Reply:

    Let me rephrase the question. What does a competent statistical model of IQ inheritance look like? If “revert to the mean” means what I think it does, there is some information about a child’s genetic endowment that comes from knowing its grandparents IQs, which is not captured through knowing the parents’ IQs. Something like:

    Childs_IQ = weight_1 * parents_IQ + weight_2 * grandparents_IQ + random

    Is this even close?

    Posted on November 19th, 2013 at 3:36 am Reply | Quote
  • Kgaard Says:

    @Saddam Hussein’s Whirling Aluminium Tubes
    Antisthenes … Isn’t that exactly what it is? An insoluble problem? I mean … yes … HBD gives important insights and helps us individually make choices on how to live (cough Elysium cough) but what you’re proposing does seem like a lost cause politically. The implication seems to be a gigantic Sophie’s Choice scenario where we line everyone up, keep those who look white enough and send the rest to Liberia. What do we do with Linda Ronstadt, who is half Mexican? Multiple that problem by 10 million and you see the challenge. It would never get off the ground. Even a muted version of this idea would garner like 20% of the women to support it, no leftiies, no oligarchs and 40% of the business people at best. It’s just not going anywhere in the US. The only possible progress will be on trying to limit immigration of all stripes. That seems to generate at least some modest level of enthusiasm.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    Start something new. Separate, secede, exit, go Galt, whatever you want to call it. New entrance is by invitation only. You set up any selection criteria you want. Maybe you let Linda in, maybe you don’t, maybe she couldn’t care less.

    You don’t have to ‘do’ anything to anybody. You don’t have to get everybody to sign on to your plan. You just have to find a way to defend your desire to be left alone in peaceful coexistence with the wrecked nations so you can watch from afar, instead of within.

    [Reply]

    Kgaard Reply:

    Handle, that’s actually a pretty low bar. If the goal is just to be left alone, that’s easy. You almost have to go out of your way to find trouble in the US. A few inner city neighborhoods are problematic and that’s about it. (And nobody goes there anyway — I’ve lived around DC the last 8 years and never ONCE went to Anacostia, except maybe driving past it to go out to Rehoboth Beach.) The other 500 million square miles of the US are fine.

    I guess ultimately this is part of my point: There isn’t enough stress on the system yet to get people up in arms. That Richard Florida article Nick linked to seems interesting. Basically the elites are starting to look at this and say, “Okay, we’ve got all these foreigners here. Now we need to think about maintaining high-toned community for me and my kids. How do I do that without causing too much fuss?” It ain’t that hard, really. Just make sure you don’t support the really crazy policies like forced integration of NEIGHBORHOODS or school busing. People will just sort by wealth and problems will be largely contained. We can continue on as we are for a long time.

    And, anyway, there is always Europe and Asia. Lots of nice places in the world. The amount of global landmass that actively suffers from white/minority conflict is so small as to be almost infinitesimal.

    [Reply]

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    At certain levels of income and at certain levels of lack of family ties and other commitments.

    So, yes, if you’re single, rootless, and make a lot of money, its easy to avoid any serious issues with communities being destroyed.

    Michael Reply:

    well i think you a solution you find palatable or think politically expedient if we check our premises we might have to recalculate.Is the status quo sustainable is that really an option?
    Theres a race war underway so far whites are not fighting back,As Derbyshire argues in a speech he gave at 2012CPAC that might change , I dont mean prole whites which is another possibility but he means elite whites might turn against multiculturalism, they might even swing hard the other way as these things sometimes go.But another thing that might make status quo unsustainable is cost;its massive and our war dividend is long gone.
    Consider the real total costs of diversity, not just Lincolns transforming a Union of states into a Leviathan, or even the trillion a year in welfare and another trillion in crime courts police prisons ,the constant shakedowns like mortgages for welfare cases and AA jobs, the corporate shakedowns by poverty pimps are massive see Vdare,,the degradation of our education system, the destruction of our once great and beautiful cities, The immense cost of medicine for highly violent low future time oriented promiscuous hunter gatherers. The rape and murder of our people. think about how every right in the bill of rights has been twisted and torn to shreds to accommodate barbarity. Now Imagine for a moment a country that didn’t have those costs, didn’t have to apologize and wipe out its culture and heritage but rather it flourished, imagine if Hip Hop didn’t rule the world, Imagine if all the white apologists in the media academia government civil service art social and hard sciences were instead doing honest productive work. Imagine if all the Affirmative action jobs and college places were filled with honest intelligent diligent people how much lower the cost of government the productivity of our country would be.
    In other words We are spending at least a trillion a year in hard borrowed cash for minorities and another trillion in the five fingered discount. The other western nations are in the same boat and our credit lines are tapped and the money printing has created a situation where all the major banks in the world have about 75TRILLION in credit default swaps on interest rates and forex bets they are planning for bail ins thats where you wake up and all your accounts have been swapped for worthless shares in the Cathedral. This just might not be sustainable.
    Another thing to consider is all these mexicans could as easily head south as they did north if the situation changed, if the economy got bad enough the natives no longer so hospitable law enforcement started enforcing laws. under the right government yes you could pass a law saying anyone who citizenship was gained fraudulently is rescinded along with all children born since thats a lot of caribeans africans mexicans depending on the interpreter all of them.
    So while I agree from the here and now its hard to imagine it happening voluntarily but if push came to shove even whites might put self preservation first now we are too fat and happy.
    Austrailia new zealand, greece france and england seem to be developing a significant anti immigrant trend.We live in interesting times

    [Reply]

    Antisthenes Reply:

    The problem you’re referring to, to my mind, is only relevant if you’re participating in Voice rather than Exit. Say what you will about the greying trajectory of race as miscegenation becomes more and more common, but the well-defined correlations between racial heritage, aggression, and IQ are very useful for those of us that have to exist in the same social space as the Tyrones and Jahvariuses.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 19th, 2013 at 1:01 pm Reply | Quote
  • Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Says:

    Send them to California.

    Limiting immigration is fine, but it is too late for it to save the U.S. from becoming a majority minority country. At this point, we’re just waiting for the minority generation to come of age.

    Ideally, the country should be broken up into multiple smaller countries, some of which would be Brazils in the making, some of which would be more demographically sustainable.

    But that cannot happen realistically happen within the democratic process, so it is a long shot.

    Start saving your money; 650k can buy you citizenship in Malta, which would allow you to move anywhere in the EU.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 19th, 2013 at 4:31 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @Saddam Hussein’s Whirling Aluminium Tubes argentina is much cheaper. northern ireland is dirt cheap idaho is free

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 20th, 2013 at 1:57 am Reply | Quote
  • Problemas Neorreacionários – Outlandish Says:

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    Posted on August 16th, 2016 at 7:15 pm Reply | Quote

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