On the JQ

Colin Liddell, amid an impressively cool-headed discussion of John Engelman and racial neuralgia:

Jared Taylor is trying very, very hard to avoid the Jewish question. Naturally I disagree with this, but I can understand why Taylor wishes to do so, as the Jewish Question has become a kind of lightning rod for a lot of angst and rage in our society that does not have the time, sophistication, or emotional equilibrium to attain to a more complex understanding of the challenges of modernity.

Whatever one’s opinion on the JQ, it is important as the marker for a still intellectually under-developed schism, dividing the meritocratic and tribalistic strains of HBD. This blog is surreptitiously sympathetic to WN claims that it is being systematically evaded on the Right out of evasive cowardice. The main reason for this evasion is that anti-semitic WNs tend to be over-excitable, inarticulate proles, whose commentary — to quote Liddell — is characterized by “humourless, droning, brittle outrage” if not outright splenetic abuse. (In fairness, I have to note that on the rare occasions when extreme anti-semites have visited this blog, they have been models of calm lucidity, however lop-sided in their attention.)

The Outside in line on the JQ is well-represented by Moldbug and Amy Chua. (They’re both smarts-over-loyalty selections of exactly the kind to raise WN hackles, of course. This isn’t a bhumiputra blog.) The slight familiarity I have with the work of Yuri Slezkine has also left a very positive impression.

It’s worth taking the opportunity to link this recent post.

(Feel free to be evil, but be civil — or else.)

ADDED: Yuri Slezkine interviewed (video).

July 3, 2014admin 107 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Discriminations


107 Responses to this entry

  • Mai La Dreapta Says:

    It must be accepted that bhumiputra is a fine and admirable policy, as are all other forms of nativism. They’re not for every nation, of course—it depends very much on the quality of your natives.


    admin Reply:

    Gnon seems less enamored of nativism than you seem to be. I guess there’s Japan, which is probably another discussion.


    Mai La Dreapta Reply:

    I’m actually curious as to which states you think disprove nativism. It does seem to be the default setting for almost all states in almost all of history, with the recent exceptions being hosts to progressive cancers.


    admin Reply:

    The main-current of global hegemony runs Venice, United Provinces, United Kingdom, United States, which seems to strongly suggest that cosmopolitan orientation is rewarded with disproportionate global influence. Otherwise, how did things end up with nativism in a battered, defensive crouch?

    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 5:22 pm Reply | Quote
  • Steve Johnson Says:

    HBD isn’t just test scores.


    admin Reply:

    HBD is a complex civil war waiting to happen. The WNs seem to get that better than most of the HBD crew.


    Steve Johnson Reply:

    The WNs have a better instinctive understanding of HBD than the analytic HBD crew.

    With exceptions of course – Steve Sailer in response to one of the leftist tool “libertarian” economists when they ask why they should prefer their own countrymen replies with “because they’ll be the ones fighting for you in a war”.

    A group where every member is as related as two European descended third cousins has a huge barrier to being trusted in a rational society that understands the principles of HBD. If your only understanding of HBD is “blacks are dumb” – well, you’re ahead of progressives but…


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 6:37 pm Reply | Quote
  • On the JQ | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 8:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • peppermint Says:

    by now we know some things about the Jews that many people, including Jews, don’t.

    * Jews are Jews. The facial features on modern Jews are a dead match for ancient depictions of Jews. The attitudes and behaviors of modern Jews are a dead match for ancient descriptions.

    * Ashkenazim are descended from a population of around 300 that was half Middle Eastern and half Italian. They moved over the Alps and grew bountifully because they were treated well.

    * Sephardim do not have an IQ advantage, but Ashkenazim do. Due to the danger of the genotypes that give them this advantage, it is clear that they evolved it recently in response to significant selective pressure – as recorded in the history books.

    * Jews are from the crossroads of the ancient world, a place where they were conquered many times and any group without deep-seated tribal loyalty would evaporate.

    * They are biologically programmed to infiltrate a society, take advantage of its resources through subversion, and then hopefully negotiate a favorable expulsion instead of being murdered. They received a favorable expulsion from Nazi Germany, but not from reunited Spain, from which they were not allowed to take any gold. Some hard-nosed realists think talking about the racial soul of a people is problematic because of the word soul. What it means is their hyleomorphic soul, their purpose, what they do.

    * It is hard for non-Jews to undrestand the nature of the Jew. In terms of personality, Whites and Blacks are more similar than either to the Jew. White and Black children enjoy stories about talking animals and animistic deities, so much so that it is no loss to feed to White children the African stories about Anansi the Spider instead of Athena. Jewish children enjoy dancing with a man dressed up as a five-dollar bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cMW3zacHVA


    R. Reply:

    They moved over the Alps and grew bountifully because they were treated well.

    So, can I come over to your house, steal all your wealth and run you out of town, once a decade?


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 8:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    To the extent JQ is a problem it’s an opportunistic problem caused by our own weakness.

    If you appear weak or are known weak you invite aggression. You’re appealing to the worst parts of human nature..not just advantage but the natural recoil/revulsion.

    To any man from anywhere else the Prog hipster Emo is something you instinctively wish to kill, because of our DNA. We’re ruthless with weakness as we know it drags us down.

    In Iraq for instance the Emo fashion lasted about a week a couple of years ago. They killed them in the street. They being the ordinary men.

    Now the JQ crew has different methods of doing either good [I know many good people, so many good JQ I’m convinced they’re the overwhelming majority] or doing evil.

    Yes the worst are either Tribal Raiders with Law and Finance instead of swords, or Levantine scumbags in business. So are the modern Lebanese [seriously fuck them, the romans were right about Carthage].

    The problem remains our elites suddenly collapsed 50 years ago and weren’t replaced..certainly not by the Boomers. We have no leadership…the middle class, proles, WN and all the rest are milling about due to leadership vaccum. Franco had Fascists in his crew and Anti-Semites, he didn’t have pogroms and in fact helped hundreds of thousands of Jews escape. Because he was a leader. Finland could have gone Nazi but for Mannerheim..and the Finns. That’s one country you don’t want to invade.

    We’ll get leaders sooner or later. The media/Cathedral does a wonderful job pre-emptively decapitating them, see Palin and Chris Christie. Leaving themselves without actual men to defend them and no one to negoitate with on the other side.

    The Cathedral has no men who believe on their walls. The sad sacks they have clearly are just gritting their teeth until pension, look at General Dempsey Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 9:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:


    1] You have a gun and 1 bullet. Who do you shoot? Curtis Yarvin [Jew] or Franklin Raines [head of Fannie and Freddie, Black]. Raines is a villain. Yarvin is exactly what you describe but also Moldbug.

    2] Peppermint are you Jewish? Seriously.


    Hard Right Reply:

    I’d shoot the bankster, even if he were White.

    I doubt that Moldbug would give me a reason to shoot him.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    We agree. We do. I’d shoot him no matter who he was – bankster.

    Look this is a dodge, a diversion. Like we’re going to actually get the bankster jews who are after all just being banksters. They’ll be in Israel, or even Dubai.

    Mobs pointed that way – and I doubt Americans will fall for it – will go after Hasidic shopkeepers, Yeshiva boys that is to say the innocent but identifiable.

    I actually have seen Americans under pressure and think they won’t go for indiscriminate mob violence. Lynchings for instance were usually associated with crime. Even Rosewood 3-6 dead, not the hundreds shown in the movie.

    The problem is the guilty are allowed to drag the innocent into it, disgustingly. And the media being both scum and witless play along.


    R7 Rocket Reply:

    2] Peppermint are you Jewish? Seriously.

    One of the stereotypes of Ashkenazi Jews is the lack of consideration for Martial Values. This is evident throughout Peppermint’s posts.


    peppermint Reply:

    > lack of consideration for martial values

    Every Israeli has to spend some time in the IDF, which is one of the most capable militaries on the planet.


    R7 Rocket Reply:

    And yet you conform to the cheapest stereotypes of Ashkenazi lack of martial values…

    The Israeli’s are pretty awesome in the defense of their lands.

    admin Reply:

    “… are you Jewish?” — Once you go full-tribal, I guess this kind of ad hominem interrogation is to be expected. It still seems like a disreputable move to me. How is it not “Jewish Science” all over again?


    GC Reply:

    I’d say so. The antics of the “Justice for Trayvon” gang was tribalism in its purest form. It doesn’t get any less grotesque when whites do it, either. Everyone does it to some degree, although the more left-wing an organisation, the more prevalent this narcissistic, “it’s different for us” worldview seems to be. Both on a political and social level.

    Using involuntary characteristics (i.e. race, geography, sex) as a clue to someone’s potential character or value system is one thing. Holding them up some kind of virtue is setting the bar a little bit low for my tastes.


    Chuck Reply:


    “Holding [involuntary characteristics] up [as] some kind of virtue is setting the bar a little bit low for my tastes.”

    Libertarian/Randian lunacy. No one would understand characteristics such as race, geography, sex to be moral excellences (virtues). Many would see some of them as worthy or valuable or preferable characteristics in some regards. For example, preferring the company of women when it comes to bonking. Regarding characteristics in general and virtues in specific, the rest of us care about the presence of the characteristic, not its origin; often natural ones as preferable, as they exhibit higher degrees of stability e.g., natural beauty versus cosmetically enhanced; natural wisdom versus learned. Your position requires deep metaphysical and empirical commitments (e.g., a belief in free will in the sense of being able to choose otherwise, that the to be valued traits are actually willfully developed and are not substantially environmentally/genetically determined — that the normal one sensibly doesn’t.

    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 9:24 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:

    Vxxc2014– isn’t the issue that the traditional elites voluntarily gave up their role in favour of a new elite? and it is the ineffectiveness of this new elite that is the real issue? Nature abhors a vacuum and will fill it. I blame the WASPs for their lack of confidence for the current predicament more than their replacements. What made them lose their nerve is the fundamental issue, which is what flipped me to NRx– it was the only source I found for a plausible theory that addressed the issue.

    As for the big JQ, I suspect it will sort itself out as jews themselves seem hell bent on assimilation. And they’ve won. Eager to secure their gains, they’ll begin to see their allies increasingly turn on them and begin to respond accordingly. Survival will demand new strategies, including new unlikely alliances. I bet the jews will do just what their WASP predecessors did and gradually give up the helm and then find themselves as “outs”– keeping company with the former WASPs.


    Antisthenes Reply:

    If you want to know what the Jews will do next, just read David Porush’s essay from Virtual Futures. Assimilation is not the endgame, no matter what is said.


    peppermint Reply:

    You’re still seeing the world in purely individualistic, material terms. Think about the racial soul of the eternal Jew and the Anglo-Saxon before you decide that the one will be as quietly destroyed as the other.

    The Anglo-Saxon decided that fighting his fellow White races was not worth the loss of blood and treasure when there was a world to gain. Unfortunately, he went too far and let totally alien species into the mixing pot.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    They didn’t give up their role they collapsed suddenly with no successors.

    There’s no successors to the WASPs, certainly not the Jews. Who just seem to have noticed the WASPs are missing and what that means.

    Are Jews guilty of Tribal behavior and a Culture of Critique? Yes. They are.

    Does this mean they’re the problem or deserve a good pogrom? No and No.

    Names not groups. However there must be some red meat served up. The guilty. Regardless. The guilty. And fuck the law, I’m tired of it. So is everyone. Yes the cops are tired of it too especially the old hands. Fuck anything but the truth and consequences at last.


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 10:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Izak Says:

    The WNs are closer to the way to go, despite their overbearing alarmism about some sort of alleged genocide. Tribe trumps meritocracy, and IQ is overrated. Since Engleman is pro-Asian and pro-Jew on account of their brainpower, the real focus of the discussion is intelligence.

    The problem with high IQ Asians is that they seem inherently uncreative and with no appetite for adventure or conquest, and the problem with high IQ Whites (of whom I include the Jews) is that they’re essentially barren and without instincts for self-preservation. A while ago, admin suggest we “cull the pale faces.” But that’s already happening: moderate intelligence + metaphysical objectivist values + muscle is the better way to go. I surround myself with high IQ White people all the time. Trust me: the dumber ones (but not TOO dumb) make for far better company. I once told that to a high IQ White guy and he started psychoanalyzing me and was like, “Well, people as smart as you make you insecure and it stems from your self-perception and blah blah blah.” QED.

    The fact that people are getting dumber is far from dysgenic. It’s eugenic. And I, for one, welcome our new frontier of stupidity with balls.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Whatever we have it’s not meritocracy.

    I don’t know if the perennial children of the 60’s considered anything beyond the vapid banalities of puberty+privilege+power they had no training for=Baby Boomers.

    They had no training as they would not listen to Daddy. By the time they were ready to listen Dad was old and the moment had passed. Plus they’d have to admit how wrong they were, so wrong any decent person would commit suicide. An indirect version of which is apparently what they are doing now. Taking us all with them selfish to the end.

    I don’t care. If I’m going to gas anyone it’s the Boomers. Not a bunch of Hasidic storekeepers.

    I’m just not going to make the mistake of handing over Finance, Law, Public opinion to the storekeepers ambitious and even more rotten than the Boomer spawn. See Pajama Boy if you think I’m wrong.

    The JQ is a question and problem in the sense that Kopski’s sarcoma is a problem, in a properly defended body a curio if a bit unslightly. In an Immuno Virus afflicted body a hideous and slow killer. It’s not them, it’s us.

    One may say the same for the [quite whipped I assure you] blacks, the Mexicans, MS-13 and all the rest. We’re pussies and we’re snapping the thong of fuck me at the murder rape monkey Homo Sapiens. It’s not them, it’s us.

    Clinton can of course be blamed for many things, he can’t be blamed for ravaging Monica Lewinsky. She snapped a thong at him. She’s no victim. Speaking of JQs.

    Look the JQs more than most don’t have the numbers or guns to represent a threat once we get our collective heads out of our own self-induced Puritan end game.

    I think people here are projecting the very suicide cult of America’s white elites and educated lunatics onto the general population. Wrong. Error.

    Izak is right Tribe is the way to go.

    In sum it’s not that the Jews defend and advance their Tribe it’s that we don’t defend and advance ours. That’s the core American and European problem.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    They’re far less dumb than creatures who can’t defend themselves.

    We’re conflating education with intelligence.


    peppermint Reply:

    “Well, people as smart as you make you insecure and it stems from your self-perception and blah blah blah.”

    Do you mean IQs of 115? Yes, they are insufferable; look at vxxc. And yet without them, we’d have to design all our bridges ourselves, and we wouldn’t have anyone to parent our students. Don’t hate them for being inferior; we all serve the same God.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Dear. You are deranged.

    You are Jewish, aren’t you?


    Izak Reply:

    The guy who told me that was really into therapy culture. He told me about his medication and therapy regimen and all this stuff after I knew him for like two days. I wish I could say he was just some mope with no social skills, but nope! He fit in quite well to SWPL culture. His girlfriend was beautiful and similarly screwy in the head.

    Of course, this is all anecdote and it might mean nothing. But I doubt it. For every one high-IQ >115 white guy with a solid perspective on life (be it liberal, right-wing, whatever), there seems to be a dozen of my generation who’re completely out their minds and doped up on government-issued narcotics.

    I’m not an expert on evolutionary biology at all. But if we’re analyzing this phenomenon through the lens of r/K, it seems to me that K can be pushed far too hard until it winds up in ‘reproductively worthless’ territory, and the signs are immediately observable through basic social behavior.


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 11:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Says:

    JQ is a litmus test for a group I have no intention of joining.


    Posted on July 3rd, 2014 at 11:31 pm Reply | Quote
  • tgmoderator Says:

    Is the Asian question related to the Jewish question? I think it is. Both northeast Asians and Jews tend to vote liberal/Democrat and both tend to have hinger than average IQ. I think both groups have the same political outlook for the same reasons. Both groups tend to be upper middle class or better socioeconomically. Both also may have some disdain for lower middle class whites. In any event both groups tend to be more urban, and may consider themselves more urbane than the average white. The changing of USA into Brazil norte does not bother Jews or Asians as much as it does whites. Asians have taken over the shopkeeper and watchmaker role that Jews occupied in US during the early 20th century. (well– not watchmakers, but you get the drift–bodegas and such) Neither group would ever support a populist revolt against the cathedral; however, a large percentage of both Jews and Asians might support reaction if they can be persuaded that reaction is needed for a safe and orderly society. As WN continue to whine about the JQ they will soon need to deal with the much larger AQ. Reaction provides an answer for both.


    Michael Reply:

    Agreed the Asian question is similar what the Asians lack in degree they are making up for in quantity. I think they could probably both be flipped theoretically but that generally multiculturalism is dangerous for any host country and so asians must be stopped from coming here any more and all the jews and asians must only marry whites until they no longer identify as anything else. other minorities should leave or submit to sterilization


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 1:19 am Reply | Quote
  • Big Bill Says:

    I respect the Jews and their race loyalty.

    When faced with thousands of “alien infiltrators” (the Hebrew term for gentile undocumented immigrants) they built desert prison camps, rounded the infiltrators up, fed them gruel and gave them army blankets against the cold.

    When the handful of liberal Jews in Israel got upset, the Jewish establishment got creative and let the inmates travel wherever they want … in the desert … on foot (no bus service, no free government lawyers, no looking for jobs). But the inmates have to be back at the camp for appel (roll call) three times a day or they are deemed to have “escaped” and are rounded up. That takes real creativity and racial solidarity!

    And to further insure race purity, they make everyone carry a race identification card. And thy do not permit marriages between people of different races. If a Jew marries a gentile they have to leave the country to do it. No mischlings allowed in Israel!

    And. more recently, when those three Jewish boys were killed, they bombed the West Bank where Arab gentiles live. That, too takes great big race-loyal balls! We should follow their example, for they are a “light unto the nations”. If three deaths at the hands of Arab gentiles causes jet fighter attacks on the gentile ghetto, how many fighter/missile attacks should we conduct on our ghettos every year?

    Heck, I don’t hate them. I see them as a wonderful example that all WNs should emulate.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    But yet this man is right as well.

    Israel does have the correct policies.

    Look it’s not their fault we lost our balls.

    What do we expect? Of anyone? Except contempt.

    We have to do our own work that’s all.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 2:04 am Reply | Quote
  • Prudence Says:

    I’m sorry if I’m being dense, but will someone please tell me what, exactly, the question is? This comment section reads like a Douglas Adams novel. The answer is 42, but no one can say what the question is.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Admin, Prudence has you.

    You posed the matter.

    What is the Question again?


    Michael Reply:

    The JQ is the Jewish Question.
    In a word are they white? No matter the answer can they ever be allies in a struggle; for white survival? western civilization?
    There seems to be a lot of evidence for reasons still argued and genetics still being discovered that 2% of the population is controlling 50% of everything and they seem to use that power against whites. On the other hand they do win a lot of nobel prizes.so the question is can we flip them or should we deport them.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    If you’re non-threatening male, you’re as useless as barren female.


    Michael Reply:

    interesting analogy but in a hot war or a cold war there’s generals and cannon fodder. I don’t know too many Ashkenazim im threatened by physically and I know a lot but wouldn’t advise underestimating their resourcefulness. say the atomic bomb.
    what seems to me important is their motivations
    do they work against western civilization in order to protect themselves say using black civil rights as a shield an ally or is it more insidious

    Steve Johnson Reply:

    The question(s) are these:

    In a non-fatally cancerous civilization what roles can Jews be trusted to hold?

    Can they be trusted to run businesses without engaging in unsavory dealings then corrupting the authorities?

    Can they be trusted in government or is the risk of them using the resources of the nation to benefit their tribe too great?

    Can they be trusted to hold professorships in social sciences or will they use their influence to stamp out thought that they see as being bad for their tribe as well as using their influence to corrupt and destroy the host culture?

    Same thing only lower brow with print and serious visual media.

    Same thing only even lower brow with movies and television.

    If you answer no to the above questions would a state have to expel the Jews to be safe from their influence on the above areas?

    The question arises because Jews happen to be vastly overrepresented in basically every “destroy western civilization” field and subfield but is this due to the fact that they’re overrepresented at the top in all verbal fields? Is it because the culture has a memetic cancer and Jews are just highly placed in the headless machine – along for the ride but looking like the top of an actually headless organization?

    That’s the JQ (short form).


    Prudence Reply:

    Thank you.

    I vote for “the culture has a memetic cancer and Jews are just highly placed in the headless machine.” However, there is also a history of animus between Christians and Jews. If Moldbug is right in saying that the two major religions in the US are Christianity and Communism, which are at least somewhat antagonistic, there is the additional problem of convincing Jews that Communism is a bigger threat to them than Christianity is.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    “The question arises because Jews happen to be vastly overrepresented in basically every “destroy western civilization”.’

    Sadly true.

    “there is the additional problem of convincing Jews that Communism is a bigger threat to them than Christianity is.”

    No. There is a problem that people don’t think we’re a threat at all. Given the legacy of both contempt at home and justified animus abroad as well at home, that we have no government that represents us at all and indeed is fatally opposed to us, the solution is convincing everyone we’re the bigger and biggest threat. . Sorry too late to go back and talk about it again. Nope.

    People respect violence and without it there’s no basis for any other dealings.

    We’re still monkeys. But so are the Jews and all the various other questions. We whites have simply been asking too much of our fellow monkeys. We have our women castrating us and we are treated accordingly. Of course. The Jews have different and dangerous methods as opposed to the blacks, the Arabs, the Chechens, the Meso-Americans but they seem to be having the run of the place as well. MS-13 aka Salvatrucha is a major problem on Long Island. They ain’t Jewish.

    Prudence Reply:

    So the problem is that Christians and other non-Progressives are the “weak horse”? That’s my impression of why Asians tend to vote Democratic. But I think history is still a factor, like seeing someone on crutches who you remember having bullied you in middle school.

    On the other hand, can anyone give me an example of progressive Jews behaving differently than progressive Gentiles?

    Wilhelm von Überlieferung Reply:

    “Some call it Marxism — I call it Judaism.”
    Rabbi Stephen Samuel Wise, The American Bulletin

    “Not only in American business and cultural life and in Israel’s military triumphs have the Jews in this century struck back against their age-old enemies. The Bolshevik Revolution and some of its aftermath represented, from one perspective, Jewish revenge…

    …During the heyday of the Cold War, American Jewish publicists spent a lot of time denying that — as 1930s anti-semites claimed — Jews played a disproportionately important role in Soviet and world Communism. The truth is until the early 1950s, Jews did play such a role, and there’s nothing to be ashamed of. In time, Jews will learn to take pride in the record of Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. It was a species of striking back.”

    Norman Cantor, The Jewish Experience

    “I thought about something just now: The decision to nationalize this library was made by the first Soviet government, whose composition was 80-85 percent Jewish,” Putin said June 13 during a visit to Moscow’s Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center.

    “Thankfully, those ideological goggles and faulty ideological perceptions collapsed. And today, we are essentially returning these books to the Jewish community with a happy smile.”

    “Vladimir Putin: First Soviet government was mostly Jewish”

    Bolshevism and Zionism are effectively two sides of the same coin. Good luck convincing those already invested in “Communism” to fold. Why would they, when they hold most–if not all–of the cards?

    Sure, some can see the futility in all of this, the hypocricy of it all, of the future pogroms and purges on the horizon if things go sideways. And they truly desire an Exit. But reaching these people isn’t going to solve the JQ.

    admin Reply:

    “… is this due to the fact that they’re overrepresented at the top in all verbal fields?” — Surely yes, and not only verbal. (Ashkenazi) Jews are hugely over-represented in everything requiring exceptionally high-intelligence. By the time modernity is thoroughly established, history is basically a Jewish civil war, with everyone else in walk-on parts.


    admin Reply:



    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 2:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    Ashkenazi maybe they are our secret weapon white mitochondrial DNA exposed to Jewish environment for 500 years then exposed to elite white environment you get a two standard deviation IQ increase trying to find its real mom.Look the smart jews are all with us they hate the other jews so much they cant throw off their religious identity fast enough and marry out almost immediately becoming “white” we end rp with the genes. no doubt its come at some cost but assimilation i think has reached a tipping point they cant pull backand wont be able to hide behind their victim status or even be motivated by it. and their tribalism may help us as much as the IQ if enough jews marry our elites after harvard soon our elites will become more tribal.
    On the other hand


    Steve Johnson Reply:

    “Look the smart jews are all with us they hate the other jews so much they cant throw off their religious identity fast enough and marry out almost immediately becoming “white” we end rp with the genes.”


    This is one of the oldest still existing ethnic groups on Earth – they’ve lived in societies where they are not the majority for thousands of years. There is no way we happen to be witnessing their voluntary extinction due to outbreeding right now. The odds of that being the case are astronomical.

    Outmarriage is just standard boiling off – a process that has been going on for thousands of years. And talk of it a diversionary tactic – “oh look, us Jews are harmless – in fact we’re breeding ourselves out of existence”. Nope.

    “and their tribalism may help us as much as the IQ if enough jews marry our elites after harvard soon our elites will become more tribal.”

    Yeah, and who will they consider their fellow tribesmen?


    Michael Reply:

    Well Steve Iv lived in JEW YORK CITY almost 60 years and while its true the hasidic have lots of kids and retaining them in a community I dont see them as a threat they are loyal conservative and race realist and grateful to America for letting them be. The liberal jews are certainly not practicing their faith anymore and only the oldest my age can remember any yiddish culture to the rest its like a grandparent great grandparent thing. the liberalism they take with them but without the cultural tethers its vulnerable,and they do marry out a lot they write about this crises a lot if you want the stats read them.certainly at the elite level everyone marries anyone from an Ivy League. sure theirs still a bit of a middle class jewish community but like the rest of america its under attack. to identify jews as non whites could cause them to circle the wagons -yeah i know they dont camp


    Steve Johnson Reply:

    I live in New York too and something that you may have missed is that the children of orthodox jews don’t necessarily stay orthodox. I’ve personally known many “not standing out in dress and behavior” jews who were raised orthodox.

    In other words, “assimilation” and “out marriage” are just standard boiling off of exactly the same kind that has gone on for thousands of years because this is a group that lives as a minority in urban areas.

    “to identify jews as non whites could cause them to circle the wagons”

    Oh no. Then they might try to subvert the culture.

    They should be identified as non-white because “white” is basically short hand for “the European subset of one of the five major human races” and they aren’t as closely related to the rest of the white groups as any other white group is.

    Plus they already don’t identify as white.


    admin Reply:

    “Plus they already don’t identify as white.” — That’s a pretty typical white attitude, isn’t it?

    anon Reply:

    No, obviously not.

    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 3:01 am Reply | Quote
  • zimriel Says:

    Is this a Jewish Question or an Engelman Question, though?

    It’s not that Engelman is pro-Jewish. Nobody serious is saying that “JewAmongYou” should be thrown down the well. There are several, even many, other commenters of The Tribe who are valued over at AmRen (and this before we get into all those Mischlings).

    The Jewish Question is basically solved on the alt-right: they’ll accept Jews c are pro-white, and – more importantly – who have put their online reputations on the line as being pro-white. The Engelman Question is whether the alt-right can accept people who aren’t pro-white. Well… what *are* they “pro”, then? What place have they in the alt-right communit(es)?


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    the solution is convincing everyone we’re the bigger and biggest threat.

    That’s the solution to every such question.


    Michael Reply:

    youve said this a few times and I at least hear you both that power comes out of a gun so to speak and that if you have a big stick you occasionally use people listen carefully. probably why a lot of us even of libertarian bent a decade or so ago got sucked into the mid east.
    But I also think its an important point about jews. If they do what they do as a sort of defense against Auschwitz like this human shield of blacks gays women etc that has to be gone through to get to them then convincing them of a greater threat could flip them. But thats not easy if the bigger threat is WN taking power they might stand their ground with the minorities,If the minorities are let loose on them [quite possible] then maybe they become law and order.. but if their strategy is to blend then the elites need to be flipped first to encourage them to emulate. but if they are genetically tuned all might be hopeless. however they seem to be a conundrum, they are leading capitalists and Communists so perhaps communism was a phase


    VXXC Reply:


    What I’m saying is they’re not the problem. Yes — Some of them are immensely criminal and destructive and must be destroyed.* What I’m saying is anytime a man won’t defend himself, what’s his, his people and worse won’t allow others to that man or group of men are the problem.

    We have abandoned both civilization and violence to please our wives faggot hairdressers who went into politics. We let this happen to us, as complicit as our predators. Who are white, and white Jews, and White Europeans and the rest of them mere diversity hires or diversion.

    Michael they’re not the solution either. We find our Balls or die.
    end of line

    Michael Reply:

    which I still drank sometimes love to have a beer with you mate. have you seen the AR receivers that you finish yourself


    Izak Reply:

    That’s not really true. The deeper you go down the rabbit hole, the more you’ll find WNs who are totally unwilling to compromise with any form of Judaism. I’m pretty sure this is the policy over at Counter-Currents.


    Izak Reply:

    …….although I suppose I’m being a bit hasty, seeing as their site curator is influenced by Leo Strauss and has reviewed Paul Gottfried’s books. But I’ve never seen a Jew write for them.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 6:40 am Reply | Quote
  • Fxkv Says:

    Since nobody has responded to Peppermint’s truly outrageous accusation that we don’t like talking-animal stories — sickening slander, this, beyond anything ever alleged against by history’s vilest Jew-haters — let me emphatically proclaim that in fact JEWS LIKE TALKING-ANIMAL STORIES! We’ve even got two of them in our Torah! And I have personally observed the child of a prominent Orthodox rabbi, A BLACK-HAT-WEARING Rabbi! — reading the collected-in-one-volume NARNIA series in his own father’s home, with his father’s knowledge and approval; moreover, this Orthodox black-hat-wearing rabbi had read THE LORD OF THE RINGS as a child and did not regret it. Now, in the Narnia books there are many talking animals, and in LOR there are talking eagles and plants (Ents), horses who understand speech (Shadowfax), and human-rabbit hybrids (Hobbits). Also, in Barnes & Noble Orthodox Jews are often to be found in the science-fiction/fantasy section on Friday afternoons, looking for Shabbat reading. So, you see, Peppermint, you’re completely mistaken and you ought to withdraw your scurrilous libel and admit that in fact Jews DO like talking-animal stories.


    chris b Reply:

    This whole comment section is gold.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 1:24 pm Reply | Quote
  • chris b Says:

    “The main-current of global hegemony runs Venice, United Provinces, United Kingdom, United States, which seems to strongly suggest that cosmopolitan orientation is rewarded with disproportionate global influence”
    Atlanteans to the nativists hyperboreans?
    I like the concept. But does the cosmopolitanism come before the influence or the other way around? HBD would indicate the cosmopolitanism is developed, which leads to exploration, trade, connecting economic low voltage points with high points etc. This would fit nicely with the spread of English traders into the Mediterranean in the 15th century, who if memory serves me right, were viewed as being extremely honest and trustworthy.
    Another issue would be how would Rome & Carthage and Athens & Sparta fit in. The hyperboreans largely won these tussles did they not? or could you say it was atlantean v atlantean in both cases?


    admin Reply:

    “The hyperboreans largely won these tussles did they not?” — That’s why (far more than, say, Jim) I see a fundamental discontinuity at the origin of modernity — coincident with the injection of the new numerals into Europe in the early Renaissance (the printing press is also crucial — digitization is the key). It’s only from that point onward that consistent ‘Atlantean’ advantage puts the gradient into history which we know as ‘modernization’.


    chris b Reply:

    I’m going to have to think more on this.


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    That discontinuity is the beginning of Progress/Progressivism, though. I don’t mean that as a total slur, since if you could somehow abort the ratchet there are parts of Progress that are actually progress and desirable to be conserved.

    But your orientation for capitalism is fundamentally 19th C. liberalism and is thus a conservative orientation.

    If NRx is going to get anywhere, we have to move beyond Yay, Capitalism (19th C. progressivism) or Yay, Monarchy (18th C. progressivism)


    admin Reply:

    I agree with the diagnosis, unsure about the proposed remedy. Modernity without egalitarian progressivism sounds like an attractive target to me.

    Can a cultural order lacking arithmetical zero ultimately command our respect?

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Yes, I see your point.

    What I’d say is that I’m not proposing a remedy, I’m only pointing out that a particular class of remedies which reject aspects of progressivism while holding other aspects fixed, which is basically the umbrella of conservatism, doesn’t work. It has been tried and repeatedly failed.

    Which means that we solutions are going to have sacrifice some of what we might like. God in his aspect as GNON does not hear prayers.

    Once we grant that the only stable holistic solutions probably don’t include perfection in subdomains (like capitalism), then the question becomes whether the extent of the scarrification in the subdomain is worth the holistic solution. I hope arithmetic zero isn’t one of the necessary scarrifications, if for nothing else because I’m sure that it’s such a basic concept that once its there it can’t be scarrified.

    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 3:41 pm Reply | Quote
  • This Week in Reaction | The Reactivity Place Says:

    […] Nick Land also takes note. […]

    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 5:43 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chuck Says:

    Admin, does NRx have a Jewish Question, taking the Jew qua Jew as an archetypal tribesman? I mean, does Gnon frown on this: hwww.jta.org/2014/06/01/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israeli-government-approves-plan-to-strengthen-jewish-identity-of-diaspora-jews ? If ethnic group-level competition can be an authentic realization of capitalistic competition — whence the nationalism is communism is anti-capitalism deduction? If not, how isn’t there a NRx Jewish problem?


    admin Reply:

    Sounds as if you’re opening up a productive new seam. Any chance you could unpack that thought just a little further?


    Chuck Reply:

    The comment above needs to be situation in a broader critique of your hyper-individualistic philosophical orientation. You oppose communism, either for (a) deontological (it impedes creative destruction, which is a good an sich) or (b) personal (you don’t like being coerced into working towards the good of those you don’t care for) reasons. You unreasonably extend this critique to nationalism (broadly constructed) in general. Unreasonable as: (a) nationalism suppresses within group competition to allow for the realization of higher order conflict, just as corporations versus individuals do (b) nationalism contra communism doesn’t, in principle, force itself on everyone; it is by conception particularistic; it has no problem, in principle, with xeno-individualism or with xeno-communism insofar as the “internal affairs” of nationalists are left alone e..g, no communist /individualistic propaganda directed at subverting the nation- corporation. Granted, not all “nationalists” realize this-leave-the-chaff-behind position, in particular racial ones, but Jews more or less do –thus a constant boiling off and continual selection for ethnocentrism — and Jews have mastered the game of group level competition. Thus I ask: Does NRx have a JQ? If not NRx should not have a NQ per se.


    Chuck Reply:

    Definitional clarification. Nationalism ~ tribalism: individuals subordinating their good to the good of a particular ethnic, cultural, religious, etc. group and the group encouraging that. Examples: White Nationalists, Jews, Amish. A form of particularistic groupism — contrasts with universalistic groupism and individualism. Question clarification: Does NRx have a (particualristic) groupishneess problem in principle?


    admin Reply:

    I’m with Peter Taylor — solid ground disappears very rapidly when altruistic expectations are pitched above or below Hamiltonian b > c/r.

    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 6:18 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    Nationalism is dumb. It’s a sophistry designed to fool you into thinking your government is not your enemy. This goes double if you’re talking groups like ‘white’ and ‘black.’ Look at Zimbabwe or Iraq or even China. While being white is certainly extra-bad, being black doesn’t make you Mugabe’s pal. Certainly, foreign governments are more your enemy, but that doesn’t mean your government is an ally.

    I claim that this inherently predatory modern government is predictable, and exacerbated by the failure of voters to put ‘predation’ together with ‘from a predator.’

    Gnon’s law is that people on your side are on your side. The only reason your government will fight with you in a war* is the same reason you’ll fight someone who wants to steal your cattle. If you have any problem that’s not directly related to paying more taxes or voting them more money, your government is indifferent to your suffering.

    *(HT upthread, Steve Johnson & Sailer.)

    Indifferent. At best. Elites are not proles. Patricians are not plebes. Mainly this is due to the IQ cline. Someone with 30 points of IQ on you is not just a faster thinker, they’re qualitatively different. (Look up the drawbacks of ‘giftedness,’ it’s not just IQ, it’s a psychological profile.) It is basically impossible for you to understand them, but the reverse is not true. This makes socializing inherently one-sided, unequal. Plebes are inherently elthede to patricians.

    Why were Medieval aristocrats a transnational elite? Because patricians have much more in common with other patricians, even e.g. Arab patricians, than with their own plebes. Plebes, tragically, can’t see this goes for them as well; blue-collar Protestants have more in common with blue-collar Catholics than they do with the priests of either group.

    You cannot be friends. At best there’s follower/leader, but if you refuse to follow there’s only master/slave or manipulator/puppet.

    The irony is if voters reject their natural elites, they’ll immediately be overrun by competing elites. The only good strategy is to explicitly pay off some elites – not necessarily yours – to be on your side.

    So, are Jews on your side? The test is simple: if you have a problem, do they make it better or worse? You don’t have to get inside their heads. Just do a little A/B testing. If they’re bad, then don’t reject them for being Jewish, reject them for being harmful or derelict in their elite duties.

    But I suspect most of the JQ is envy and the plebe/patrician discontinuity. More Jews get into the elite, which means they look more elite as a group, which means they make a good scapegoat in plebe/patrician conflicts of interest. (The patricians always win, plebes might as well surrender, draining the scapegoat tactic of usefulness.)

    It would seem the Demobrat / Republicant split functions the same way. When government predates on voters, D can blame predatory R and vice-versa. Or: patricians always win, again.

    The worst part about nationalism is that although patricians are smarter, they’re not, on average, much wiser. By allowing greater predation through misdirection, nationalism allows elites to predate above sustainable levels, thus bringing down society as a whole. Patricians need the plebe pushback to keep them even half-honest. They subconsciously expect it, and thus can’t consciously correct for its lack.

    As it happens, less-predatory elites may usually be of a more-similar nationality. But the point is the predation, not the ethnicity.


    Chuck Reply:

    “Nationalism is dumb. ”

    Dumb. Nationalism isn’t equivalent to nation-statism; nationalism has a broader meaning, something like: tribalism or groupism. Is tribalism stupid? It’s as stupid as eating chocolate ice cream is. Is it your flavor? Second, the state is only the enemy when the state is the enemy (i.e., when it doesn’t facilitate the fulfillment of your good). For a y-nationalist, the state is the enemy when it is the enemy of the y-nation. Very simple.


    Hurlock Reply:

    Nationalism only makes sense when there is an external threat.
    When there is no external threat society reverts back to its natural (patrician/plebeian) class conflict.
    Tribalism can be observed in class conflict as well. Plebeians support other plebeians vs patricians and vice versa. In truth nobody gives a fuck about the big tribe they are supporting but they are doing so because for the moment it is in their interest.
    Even nationalism has its roots in individualism, but nationalists like to pretend this is not so and that it is some form of an authentic solidarity between the nation. Which is retarded as nations and even tribes tend to be too big for everyone to authentically care about everyone else. People only authentically care for their family, but even that can have limits, depending on how big the family is.
    A person can only authentically give a fuck for about a hundred or so other people which is why nationalism is stupid except in times of external danger and even then it is a simple pretense.
    Nobody *really* gives a fuck for the y-nation.


    Michael Reply:

    well I have been using the term nationalism 0or ethno state interchangeably and said that the implications of HBD insist on it.But Ive pointed out that the same implications wwill be writ smaller within the tribe. the closer in ability and preferences the better a society will function.Allways keeping in mind the genetic singularity that might occur but for now although joe sixpacks 105 IQ may bore you chances are he and jane will produce the next 130 IQ citizen not you and your spouse so you and he are more like siblings with different IQs than from different tribes.Now of course there are forces pulling you apart but a society cognizant of your mutual interests could ameliorate much of this. And this society un hindered by the white mans burden might quickly raise it mean IQ to the point of diminishing social consequence.There seems to be a assumption that nationalism will be socialistic i dont see why that must be though i do see how it would matter less.


    Alrenous Reply:

    Sophistry is unstable. The 100IQ is pretty dense, but if you bludgeon them repeatedly and reliably enough, they do learn.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 6:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • an inanimate aluminum tube Says:

    Riffing on what was said above; If you’re capable of doing it correctly, playing the game as a team* seems to trump playing the game as an lone individual.

    Either Anglos are doing it wrong or Jews are cheating.

    Well, let’s consult Gnon.

    Turns out he doesn’t care about our concept of cheating.

    Looks like Anglos are doing it wrong and Jews are doing it right.

    So the AQ seems like a more pertinent question than the JQ. Obvious solutions to the AQ present themselves, but I’m not sure that it still looks like techno-commercialism if Anglos stop playing with both hands tied behind their backs.

    After all, teamwork manifests itself differently based on the behavioral characteristics of the groups involved, so Anglo teamwork might not look quite the same as Jewish teamwork.

    * Needless to say, individual members of the “team” are also jockeying for position amongst themselves.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 7:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:



    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 8:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • Aeroguy Says:

    My Dad is a deeply religious Christian, originally a Reganite Republican but now in the camp that wants to ban interest all together. He’s a right wing populist with a particular distaste for gays and muslems while having a Derbyshire attitude towards blacks. I remember when I was quite young my Dad being upset by how liberal Jewish voting pattern were. I asked why so many Jews voted that way and he said he didn’t know. I suspect that he wouldn’t be fond of Jews if not for the fact that he’s descended entirely from Jewish immigrants from Russia. He married a Catholic white girl while he was still a Jew, they compromised and had a pagan marry them, my parents crack me up.

    I’m definitely white, not sure if I’m Jewish, I’m a transhumanist so me and the ethno-nationalists hate each other anyway because of the Posthuman question.

    I don’t understand the appeal of tribalism, people would rather have their idiot cousin bone their sister than the ubermensch from the neighboring village? Tribalism breaks because regression to the mean, this is why I love brain drain. They actually think Gnon favors them?

    The JQ is dwelled on by primitivists with no interest in proper transhumanism. Loyalty to a species, loyalty to a race, loyalty to a cousin, loyalty to your own ass. What about loyalty to order, you know principles. Loyalty to those that look like you overriding all other principles is just cryptonarcissism. Your ass, your cousins, your race, your species, they’re just extensions of yourself, they’re not bigger than yourself. Principles, structures, institutions, civilizations, these are bigger than ourselves. There are two types of traditionalist, those that work against time, who wish to expel time and live in a static familiar universe. The other type respects time as a builder and destroyer, they see the patterns that time approves of and adapt themselves accordingly.


    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    I highly recommend Richard Dawkins’ _The Selfish Gene_. Yes, Gnon does favor people who take care of their families, although you obscure this point by turning it into a false dilemma. The J.B.S. Haldane version:

    “I would jump into a river to save two brothers, but not one, or to save eight cousins but not seven.”


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 9:12 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chuck Says:

    Gnon favors organisms (and groups thereof) which are disposed to favor themselves, because such organisms and their lineages tend to outlast those which aren’t so inclined. Not comprehending this is akin to not comprehending why sexual organisms enjoy sex. If you simply can’t understand (in the sense of Verstehen), it’s because you’re low on the disposition and/or lack theory of mind. “I just don’t get why anyone likes tang”, said the prepubescent boy. No problem, little man. Just don’t try to impose your aselfishness, I would advise, because Gnon also favors those who are disposed to eliminate those who attempt to frustrate their realization of this transcendent principle of organic evolution.


    an inanimate aluminum tube Reply:

    And yet… social animals are remarkably successful.

    Gnon seems to favor the Tribe.

    And the Tribe is … significantly more tribalist than the organisms who are competing with them for the same ecological niche.

    Are a number of viable strategies for propagating your genetic material, “my nuclear family vs the whole world” just happens to be one of the dumber ones.


    Posted on July 4th, 2014 at 10:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    We must hold our own levers of Power. Finance, Law, Education, Values.

    As should any people on earth, the leader of France should really be French. Germany a German.

    As to this particular tiresome question: what happens when blacks are allowed to concentrate and are left on free rein?

    Well this is what other groups do on free rein. This one in particular.

    Chechens will raid. Meso-Americans engage in Blood Ritual gangsterism.

    We the People who long used to managing our own affairs according to our own customs of Liberty and self-governance [I’m talking from Rome, Germainia, England, Europe forward not to mention the Americans] cannot simply willy nilly toss governance and power to others. Anymore than we can make Iraq or Afghanistan into New England. It’s not a question of rights it’s a question of Power . No one has a right to Power. No one has the right to the levers. The old WASP elites had subtle ways of keeping power and wielding power, they were raised in it’s use. When they collapsed 50 years ago there was no replacement. There has been chaos and Hell Raising since. Our media is now entirely consumed with porn [and who pray tell is that industry? more than Finance]. For that crime many should pay the price.

    When the WASPs collapsed it wasn’t evident until very recently that they had no replacement. Nixon, Reagan, Bush the Father [who handled his term very well] kept the Boomers at Bay. All 3 of those Presidents were the last stable hands on the Tiller of State.

    When Clinton arrives all our present disorders and dooms are institutionalized. For it’s under him our government is hopelessly corrupted, Washington, Finance. Washington is a contractor paradise with a government front company.

    We don’t have elites. We have embezzlers, fraudsters, pimps, hustlers, and street people tossed degrees running amok. With plenty of gentle pale faces to write papers and hold earnest coffees, the media completely in mutual political class capture as Finance.

    Now their Doom is at hand. Whether they take the entire country down we will see.

    We don’t have elites. And certainly not the ah..questionable. You must be kidding.


    Posted on July 5th, 2014 at 12:32 am Reply | Quote
  • Lesser Bull Says:

    Jews aren’t a threat. When there is a master, they will serve the master. In a self-confident, masterly civilization, they are an asset.

    We currently lack such a civilization, so they aren’t.

    They didn’t cause the civilizational decline, and attacking them won’t reverse it.


    VXXC Reply:

    @lesser Bull,

    Thank you for putting better than I did.

    They didn’t cause the problem.

    Attacking them isn’t a solution.

    Some are a problem for the same reason that everyone else on earth is a problem, our elites are committing suicide and want to take the world with them. The Boomers are also dying and are handling natural mortality as well as they handled puberty. Horrifically.

    JQ is asset in healthy society, problem [like everyone else] in unhealthy.

    now me: Names not groups. Dangerous individuals, chips fall where they placed their bets.
    For the people are now feral and their diet remains a constant.


    Posted on July 5th, 2014 at 1:28 am Reply | Quote
  • Chuck Says:


    I didn’t ask about inclusive fitness.

    Does NRx have a TribeQ? Does it have a problem with Jewism, Whitism, etc?

    (a) Yes
    (b) No


    fotrkd Reply:

    Forgive me for not being admin (I have gin) –

    The Outside in line on the JQ is well-represented by Moldbug and Amy Chua. (They’re both smarts-over-loyalty selections…

    But you may want to consult other corners of the trichotomy for alternative answers.


    Chuck Reply:

    That statement requires too much exegesis.

    For one, I want Land’s interpretation of the NRx position.

    Specifically, I would like to know if Jewish tribalism (not just WN ) is unNRx — that is, if NRx has a JQ, as the JQ was historically understood i.e., what to do about this overly groupish group.

    I don’t see a principled conflict between NRx and tribalism, but Land seems to, hence his critique of WN.

    But he doesn’t go there with Jews e.g., “Ha ha these silly communists — creating Jewish institutions and multi-billion dollar Jewish charities, and having newspapers dedicated to the concerns of global Jewry, and plotting how to reinforce Jewishness and encourage endogamy.” Nope.

    (It seems that) instead of critiquing Jews as being tribal, he scoffs at WN for being so tribal as to point out and complain about Jewish hyper-tribalism (hyper relative to indoEuropeans, not other Semites).


    admin Reply:

    In my interpretation of the NRx main current, tribalism is an eccentric (but significant) influence. If it were otherwise, why not simply adhere to the many already-existing ethno-nationalist political programs available? WNs, Zionists, hell — Black Nationalists — already have well-developed institutions of their own. The appetite of these types for simple diagnoses and solutions is a cognitive vice they can’t escape.

    I’d go further — If there’s an ‘entryism’ issue in NRx (an inherently comical formulation, but leave that for now) it’s primarily about ethno-nationalists trying to latch onto something cool — i.e. smart — and by doing so dragging its average intelligence level down discernibly. Their input at the high-end is a valuable source of stimulation, but they’re not ‘us’.

    FWIW the whole Zionist-kibbutznik business was overtly communistic. I haven’t bothered criticizing it because it doesn’t impinge on my world. I’m in favor of communistic experiments seizing a bit of land for themselves and doing their thing to the point of failure. I’d be delighted to see WNs do that too. (As far as wider Jewish tribalism is concerned, what has it got to do with NRx? There are all kinds of WNs putting up arguments in this tent — have you come across a single dedicated Zionist doing so?)

    Posted on July 5th, 2014 at 10:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chuck Says:

    It was a simple question. You seemed to not care for particularistic collectivism and you seemed to see it as unNRX
    e.g., http://www.xenosystems.net/fission/ Jews are the archetypal tribe ~ particularistic collective ~ nation ~ volk. They realize much of what WNs, Evolians, Identitarians etc. yearn for. I wanted to know if by your reading there was a JQ, meaning if Jews were behaving unNRx. More generally if WNs, Evolians, Identitarians etc. were unNRx. Your answer:

    “As far as wider Jewish tribalism is concerned, what has it got to do with NRx? There are all kinds of WNs putting up arguments in this tent …”

    So, I guess not.

    (It’s just odd because prior you seemed to suggest otherwise.

    “This isn’t a bhumiputra blog.”

    So you don’t like collectivism that includes you — beyond nuclear family; it’s horrifying. But you don’t mind xeno-particularistic collectivism e.g., the very bhumiputra Jewry. But you do mind WN, etc. because it doesn’t clearly exclude you, an idea which sends creepy chills up your spine.

    That’s all I wanted to clarify.


    Was I the only one confused about this; probably.)


    admin Reply:

    I don’t see where you’re getting the idea I’m defending “bhumiputra Jewry” — where have I ever suggested that? Are you making the typical WN error of assuming Jews are universally super-tribal? That’s a paranoid construction in my experience. (Most diaspora Jews are like super-charged SWPLs, which is why they have connected with cladistic ultra-Protestantism so easily.)


    Chuck Reply:

    Nick: ‘Are individual Jews all super-tribal? ‘

    The one’s that aren’t fall from Jewry, which is tribal relative to European groups.

    We have two errors:

    1. the WN can’t see the individuals from the clan; thus they can’t distinguish between Jews as a group, a super organism, and Jews as a set of individuals, many of whose lineages are on the way out of the tribe and whom aren’t particularly attached to it.
    2. the Anglo-individualists can’t see the clan from the individuals; thus, they can’t see how Jewry — Jew Inc. — could be hyper tribal when many individual lineages are pealing off from the core and when many nominal Jews just don’t care.

    The question stands: Is Jew Inc., which is bhumiputra par excellence — not sons of the earth, but chosen — unNRx. This Jew Inc: //bjpa.org/Publications/downloadPublication.cfm?PublicationID=4497

    If not I will assume that WN Inc., etc. — were they to exist — would not be.

    How is it that you can’t give me a positional statement?


    admin Reply:

    The question keeps getting fuzzier. If I’m getting it at all, my answer is:
    NRx (mainline) is not tribalistic, because Moldbug isn’t.

    Izak Reply:

    There’s probably going to be a rift in global Jewry over the exact same point you’re raising. The Western Jews are a lot less tribal than the Israeli ones. Or, perhaps more accurately, they’ve expanded their tribe to include Jews…. and extreme universalist progressives. And a house divided against itself cannot stand.


    Posted on July 6th, 2014 at 7:28 am Reply | Quote
  • Izak Says:

    The Jews are actually a lot like an Alka-Seltzer tablet. With no water, it’s concentrated and hard. Then you drop it into water and it dissipates slowly, dissolving over time. By the time it has finished dissolving, it’s gone completely, but the water is forever changed. The Jews have been pretty much this way, not only with their physical presence but with their intellectual contributions as well.

    I’m seeing people on this comment board seriously underestimate the Jews. “They didn’t cause this!” “They’re innocent!” Any proud Jew should be insulted by this kind of dismissal. They invented MONOTHEISM for crying out loud.

    The only race inwardly unaffected by the Jews in some way or another have been black people, especially those in Africa. But that’s how they are; they’re always innocent until the end of time.

    I, too, agree that resurrecting Medieval-style antisemitism would be pretty pointless. The Western whites are too far advanced in their degeneracy to turn back now. If you want to “save” them, the best chance you have is to reach their momentum step for step and then redirect the flow elsewhere.

    Up until this point, increasing Jew-gentile cultural and genetic cross-pollination has been a warning sign of impending antisemitism. The Jews tasted the wrath of Antiochus IV as they were starting to Hellenize. The so-called New Christians felt the rage of the inquisition. By the time Hitler was elected, Jews and Christians were intermarrying at an unprecedent rate. Now, the intermarriage rate has reached a fever pitch, and just about every American is going around mouthing some tenth-rate deterioration of a slogan coined by some Jewish intellectual, but where’s the antisemitism? It won’t come. Before a vending machine can be tipped over, you need a few good shoves as it wobbles back and forth. It seems as though it has reached the tipping point.

    Interestingly, I think that most influential Jewish movements of the 20th century were strange, almost perverse attempts to ape the White gentile. Marxism is a monstrosity which takes the inborn pathological altruism of White gentiles, particularly protestants, and amplifies it with a fervent intensity, combining it with the Jewish apocalyptic writings from the Tanakh. Psychoanalysis seems to be almost like an attempt to “cure” the Jew of his Judaism — you have to recognize that Freud felt that Moses was a gentile. This is the greatest leader of the Jews in history.

    Perhaps Sartres was onto something when he said that Jews secretly loathe their Judaism and wish to assimilate, but only the bourgeois construction of anti-Semitism keeps them from doing so. Well…. perhaps he was 10% right. Either way, the Western Jews seem as though they will finally get their wish of assimilating to the European and American masses, leaving the Israelis to rot in their relative affluence, but with a newfound cosmic loneliness — never knowing whether to see themselves as a true blue Western-style democracy, or perhaps as a Magian vanguard of a wholly new character, held back by a cruel and unusual reverse-pseudomorphosis.

    This concludes my thoughts on the Jews.


    Posted on July 6th, 2014 at 1:09 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    As most are innocent of the crimes afflicting us and our perverse desire – Protestants perverse desire – to return to the purity of being lion food is the core problem I reached the conclusion in general about all matters of names not groups.

    Since I’m American I wish this to apply universally – but only to Americans. **

    **I’ve strove with Arabs and I’ll OTOH all I fucking want.

    “Before a vending machine can be tipped over, you need a few good shoves as it wobbles back and forth. It seems as though it has reached the tipping point.” [[=== and this unfortunately about sums up the outward policy of the dominant Jewish leading “lights” in America especially and for that part the West. $100 Trillion USD ain’t coming back, pornography as a utility second only to the electricity it rides isn’t a sin washed out with words, money, prayer. Feminism’s embrace of abortion as it’s Eucharist and the severe damage to the family. The destruction of our laws to be replaced by an insane Kritarchy [rule of judges]. The perverse turn the New Deal took from powerful administrative tools for good into HARM and PROFIT from a motive of MALICE. The porno idiocracy that is media/entertainment. The ruining of the Blacks 1965 chances – what they really wanted as late as the Clinton housing boom is the American Dream and that’s all the Blacks wanted – if you want a list of indictments in America there we are.

    And yet names not groups. Genocidal idiocies are 20th century and it’s time to bid farewell. Besides if you waste effort, time, risk, men, resources, focus on taking out groups you will reliably completely miss the actual problem aka the “guilty”. You’ll never have enough time and bullets for the ones you must get that also deserve it, so pass by on productive “innocents”. A formula for successful war, conquest, administration since all time. Had the Nazi’s not sent Himmler and his assassins into the Ukraine and USSR it would have been as passive as France. This is the universal opinion of the Wehrmacht Officers who recalled of course being greeted with Bread and Salt.

    Had Hitler succeeded within 15-20 years the post war Nazi intellectuals would have been bemoaning that they killed the wrong Jews.

    And there are plenty of other group indictments to be handed out if that’s the route, including certainly the insane and degenerate Tidewater aristocracy. New England’s crimes and madness presently afflicting us need no repeating again. The Sons of the South here need to know as well that left to their own devices once they move beyond tools, work, valor their politics of leadership elected or selected will follow the same dismal path it’s been on since Polk died. Jefferson Davis should have been shot dead and deposed by Saint Robert E. Lee and if he had lived Jackson probably either would have…or supported such. You.Suck.At.Picking.Leaders.Cuz.Yu.Pick.Pimp-Ass-Preachers-Like_clinton-Huckabee.

    You suck at picking leaders Johnny Reb. SUCK.

    I’d get started on me fellow Catholics in America especially the prelates but that’s like pissing on a passed out wino in the street at this point.

    I can go on and on. So we’re all you see the suck-ass-bitch-peasant banished children of Eve. Cuz we lack leaders.

    You want a unified field theory and = Jews?

    Then we’re all Jewish Biatch.


    Posted on July 7th, 2014 at 10:21 am Reply | Quote
  • GC Says:

    “Libertarian/Randian lunacy. No one would understand characteristics such as race, geography, sex to be moral excellences (virtues). Many would see some of them as worthy or valuable or preferable characteristics in some regards.”

    I do get the feeling that you’re ever so slightly out of your depth here, Chuckles, given that in the first two sentences you’re not only equivocating (“virtue” has other meanings beside “moral excellence,” although that’s irrelevant because your statement would still be wrong), confusing a descriptive statement with a prescriptive one and also attempting to attach some ideological relevance to an empirical observation.

    Oh, and there are people who “understand characteristics such as race, geography, sex to be moral excellences”. People have been doing it for millennia. The Justice for Trayvon crowd were doing it, too (most of them were black. Think it’s a coincidence?) They regarded his blackness as a virtue. He pursued a life of crime, had gangster fantasies and slammed someone’s head into the pavement? That’s okay, he’s black, therefore one of us, which trumps all other considerations.

    Everyone I’ve seen exhibiting this worldview is either degenerate and/or displays the characteristics of low intelligence (i.e. low income, criminality, high time preference, Malthusian breeding practices, obviously self-destructive lifestyle choices etc.)

    I fail to see how pointing this out makes one a “Libertarian/Randian,” much less a lunatic.

    PS. The rest of your post isn’t worth addressing because it’s irrelevant to anything I had to say, although I should point out that calling the “normal one” (whatever that is) “sensible” presupposes that there’s a “non-sensible” argument that could have been chosen otherwise, which contradicts your argument.


    Chuck Reply:

    Conceptual precision is important. I don’t see a lot of it here. For example, Nick routinely grossly abuses words/concepts such as”Left” and “Communism”.

    Regarding the specific issue, you ambiguously used “virtue”, and so I imposed a definition to undercut an apparent equivocal argument.

    Here is what you said:

    “Using involuntary characteristics (i.e. race, geography, sex) as a clue to someone’s potential character or value system is one thing. Holding them up some kind of virtue is setting the bar a little bit low for my tastes.”

    I agree that there would be something odd with treating race or sex as (a) a virtue in the sense of a good moral behavior such as prudence or honesty, since race or sex isn’t a behavior. However, treating race or sex as (b) a virtue in the sense of a valuable trait such as beauty or youth is not odd.

    You argument could be:

    1. In general, seeing involuntary characteristics as valuable is silly; accordingly, thinking that person Y has the virtuous trait of e.g., being handsome (characterized in terms of symmetry) would be below you. This is ridiculous.
    2. In general, seeing involuntary characteristics as morally valuable behaviors is silly; accordingly, thinking that person X is a good-acting citizen on account of not being congenitally disabled would be silly. This is a reasonable position, but it’s fallacious because no one treats biological race, sex, etc. as an act or behavior.
    3. Seeing involuntary characteristics as valuable is silly only when these characteristics are e.g., sex, kinship, age, inherited non-behavioral phenotype; accordingly, preferring to shack up with with a hot 20 year old chick over a 70 year old geezer is silly. Pure Lunacy.

    But of course, you imagine that you mean something else. You don’t like the idea of a society e.g., extolling as a valuable commodity “diversity”, let alone homogeneity. But this is merely a collective version of 1/3. A society might sacralize virtus or prudence (along the lines of 2) or Youth or Whiteness (along the line of 2/3). When doing so, it just sees these qualities as good things.

    If you only want to see voluntary characteristics as good or valuable, that’s fine. It’s still lunacy.

    “I do get the feeling that you’re ever so slightly out of your depth here,”

    The commentators are very clever here, no doubt. But systemic philosophy is better realized in plain as possible speech. This allows for ready identification of problematic conceptualizations.


    Chuck Reply:

    “The commentators are very clever here, no doubt. But systemic philosophy is better realized in plain as possible speech. This allows for ready identification of problematic conceptualizations.”

    e.g., I’m still trying to determine if Nick has a principled NRx position on nationalism/tribalism. My conception of nationalism/tribalism is similar that of Mencius’s. Paraphrase: nationalism as ideology is the view that members of set x should act collectively to further their particular collective interests; nationalism as act occurs when members of set x act collectively to further their particular collective interests. Against this, Mencius, affirming the consequent, first argues that nationalism is democracy. He then argues that universalism is a sub-type of it, and by implication that nationalism is, therefore, bad. He also seemingly manages to exonerate Jewry in general from being nationalistic, since, supposedly, Reformed and Marxist Jews don’t tend to act at all for or in line with the good of global Jewry (or whatever it’s called) e.g.,
    nothing to see here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846948754/counterpunchmaga
    Now since Mencius’, Nick’s source text, provides no sound position, I ask Nick. His reply: “my answer is: NRx (mainline) is not tribalistic, because Moldbug isn’t.” Obviously. But is tribalism not NRx (mainline)? That is, does NRx exclude, i.e., conflict with in principle, tribalism — as oppose to just not profess it. It’s hard to tell because what NRx means for him is ever evolving and his source text, form what little I read of it, is unclear.


    Chuck Reply:

    Like this: “Tinker With Your Ticker”

    Posted on July 8th, 2014 at 2:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • Prudence Says:

    Admin, what do you make of Kevin MacDonald?”



    admin Reply:

    John Derbyshire basically speaks for me on MacDonald — but that VDare piece was remarkably interesting.


    Posted on July 9th, 2014 at 3:18 pm Reply | Quote
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