Out of the Popcorn Zone

As a corrective to the disturbingly unironic Donald Trump enthusiasm affecting certain sections of NRx, here‘s Ace (of Spades) exiting the circus:

… several years ago, I actually believed in America, and participatory democracy, and all that. […] Now I don’t. So now I find myself agreeing with Chomsky, albeit from a rightward direction. I don’t agree with him about who controls the country, or to what political ends; but I do with agree with him that it is controlled. […] Now this brings me to … Manufactured Consent … So this is why I have become a radical: I agree with a left-wing socialist/communist about the fundamental rotten lie at the heart of the American democracy. […] … I am turning off the TV, I am turning off the Bob Corker & Mitch McConnell show, and, frankly, I am cutting the cord on America.

(He’s even turning off the computer for a day, which is perhaps edging into excessive extremism.)

There’s still some definite suggestion in the post that democracy itself could be exculpated, so the journey is not yet complete. Give it time.

July 16, 2015admin 58 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Democracy

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58 Responses to this entry

  • Anomaly UK Says:

    I spent most of the week troubleshooting a software system that had three completely separate critical bugs in it, any one of which would have been sufficient to prevent it working as it was supposed to.

    These are among the hardest situations to diagnose correctly. Government is being corruptly controlled by a clique of power-hungry crooks. But on top of that, the structure of government is not capable of being managed effectively. And, on top of that, the supposed corrective force of democracy is bound to cause certain harmful outcomes if it is allowed to have its advertised influence.

    The temptation to believe that if one thing is fixed, then the system will work, if not perfectly, then at least appreciably better, is overwhelming. But if a system has had one fatal bug for a long time, it is likely to accumulated others along the way, since you can’t notice that a change broken something when it is was already non-functional before the change. All the unsuccessful fixes that have been applied to society since it first broke have done further damage, undetectable until the other existing problems are actually fixed.

    That is, by itself, a rational argument for reaction. If you have a broken device that you have been unsuccessfully tinkering with for a long time, then “put it back as it was before you started fixing it” is almost bound to be a good idea.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 4:54 pm Reply | Quote
  • Out of the Popcorn Zone | Neoreactive Says:

    […] By admin […]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 5:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Atavisionary Says:

    Ya, I do not understand all the trump love. Sure, he is against immigration which is nice, but so what? Let’s say he does win and stops immigration. We wait 4 or maybe 8 years and the march left starts starts up again. And there is no reason to think he will halt that march on any issue other than immigration, and even that is doubtful because the bureaucratic class would probably keep it going in spite of genuine efforts against it. A band aid isn’t going to fix the systematic problem. Trump love in the community is a sign that some of us are too easily swayed by outrage of the week sound bites. People are saying they are supporting ironically but to me that feels more like a cover for a bit of a mob mentality and general reversion to supporting democracy. Not a good sign…..

    [Reply]

    Erebus Reply:

    I figure it’s just a spectacle. Who doesn’t enjoy a good spectacle, especially when it detracts from the dignity of the federal government? (Such questionable dignity, and how the politicians and functionaries pride themselves in it!)

    Trump is a buffoon — but let’s not forget that he’s running for the office of Ronald McDonald, as the Duck correctly put it. The ratchet won’t turn backwards, but I don’t think that anybody seriously expects it to; the only question is how quickly it turns. (Which leads to another: Is the better strategy conservatism or accelerationism?)

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Sure, ironic Trump love is sound #AAA. It’s only when I get the sense that some of our temporarily deluded Kameraden are actually hot for a 2016 Trump win that I shudder with disbelief.

    [Reply]

    Erebus Reply:

    Point taken. I’d do the same.

    …Anybody who actually expects a Trump victory to change things for the better, in meaningful ways, is truly delusional. The best we can hope for is change via #AAA — as the system’s comic flaws and clownish personalities grow more repugnant and more outsized, to a point where every man with a modicum of self-respect would prefer death or Exit over descending to participate in an exhibition so degrading and disgusting.

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 5:47 pm Reply | Quote
  • ashv Says:

    Much of the Trump love is not expectation that he will win or fix things, but expectation that he will 1) help destroy the Republican party and 2) entertain us during what looks to be an otherwise extraordinarily depressing electoral season.

    [Reply]

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Agreed.

    But he wants to arm the US MIL on duty in the States. Today he gets my vote.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-would-end-gun-free-zones-on-military-bases/article/2567907

    Other than Family I don’t care about anyone else, and why should I?

    Certainly NRx understands that.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 6:03 pm Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Says:

    Trump is like Hillary but with walls and foreign wars.

    Also, kicking reporters in the teeth daily.

    What is not to love?

    (related: who among ye is voting anyway?)

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    “What is not to love?” — Even at the popcorn level, quite a lot actually.

    [Reply]

    Hattori Reply:

    If he helps wreck the Republican party further why not? I thought that was the primary NRx stance.
    Don’t see why his politics past or present are even relevant.

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    Oh, ace.

    “democracy is a scam! NO It can’t be!”

    Let’s not pretend that a candidate saying they are anti-abortion will stop abortions. It’s there to reassure Christians that they are moral. If I thought there was any chance a President could or would do what is necessary to crush Roe v Wade, I would be differently-opinioned. On the pile of the peddled organs of infanticided progeny of America, can one determine whether the social conservatives have more won the hearts or the minds on this issue?

    “Fewer young people support Abortion!”

    (but none of these people would dare socially ostracize someone for having an abortion.)

    The same sex marriages thing is another one of these, beautifully set up to be profited by principled dissenters for another 40 years before they blow open a scandal of covered-up serial child slave trafficking by lesbian couples.

    “But we opposed this! Elect us!”

    Shams.

    [Reply]

    Amon Khan Reply:

    Not true; Hillary is a hawk on foreign policy, and is probably more likely to start a war to prove that she has the balls to be CinC (like Thatcher in the Falklands). I expect Hillary to be a lot like LBJ, presiding over failing wars and a disintegrating society. At least that’s my hope…

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    Trump is just more interesting, I’ll admit.

    Also, the perpetual slaughter of the media is to be celebrated with libations and joy; a shame the same fire will not be put to the universities and the bureaucracy. Walker has done some of the latter, but he has not managed to personally rise above the noise. And in any case, he was not exactly putting the universities to the sword; he presided over the repealing of a law that guaranteed tenure – something that no other state in the union had.

    Crushing those four heads of the serpent – open borders, the media, the universities, and the bureaucracy – is the minimum for me to support a candidate. Since none of them will do that, I will support the one that entertains me the most.

    Right now that is Trump.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 6:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kwisatz Haderach Says:

    admin, I can guess your position on a lot of topics, but what is your position on abortion? (And what are the primary considerations for you?)

    [Reply]

    Dark Psy-Ops Reply:

    “If you don’t like abortions, don’t be aborted” – Julie Borowski

    [Reply]

    Warg Franklin Reply:

    Abortion is a distraction. Infanticide has always been and will always be with us. The level of infanticide in our society speaks of some kind of degeneration of lifestyle, but as for the moral valence of the infanticidal act itself, well, my position is that it’s currently eugenic, end of story.

    The people who oppose abortion are the same people who would oppose war, eugenics, and holding the seed grain against the parasitical starving masses. Compassion can make things nice locally, but it incurs the wrath of Gnon.

    In any case, it’s not our concern, unless it’s our own wives and daughters. Embrace Passivism, brother; the system will do what it does; watch it dispassionately and prepare for its inevitable death.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    The pro-abortion people also tend to be pro-immigration (how shall we fund the welfare state without immigration shoring up our poor demographics, after all?)

    [Reply]

    Dark Psy-Ops Reply:

    Ha! That’s a true observation.

    OLF Reply:

    No, the people who oppose abortion are the same people who would oppose Dylan Roof shooting innocent grandmas in the back. War should be universally opposed, it should be obvious why. Except in the case of defense from invasion what use is there in war? What use is there in spending mass amount of your resources and wealth in order to ensure your best young men die (like in the case of american conservative youth dying off in Viet Nam, while progressive youth smoked pot at college orgies)? And eugenics, if it is state-enforced eugenics it’s bad (it was what early progressives advocated), good political system would be eugenic in and of itself (though I personally would have no quarrel if someone decided to suddenly sterilize criminals, junkies and welfare whores). Withholding grain is A-ok, when you must (better to enslave the parasitical masses, but if it unfeasible and there’s no other way). Let it be known that I’m not squeamish, and I think that what must be done should be done without hesitation… you Hestians like to say “only morality is Civilisation”, OK but then don’t advocate for Barbarism.

    [Reply]

    Kwisatz Haderach Reply:

    “Abortion is currently eugenic”

    – Yes, this is a predominant consideration for me as well. If it were dysgenic, would you then oppose it? (I would. This clarifies for me that the consideration at hand is not individual liberty. Our Gnon cards are intact.)

    “Infanticide will always be with us”

    Thought I waffle on the subject of abortion, I’m yet sure that the only consistent positions in view are “no abortion” or “abortion, infanticide, and infant exposure/abandonment”. The last three are logically joined at the hip; there is no useful distinction to be made. I cackle with dark joy as the Cathedral energetically condemns Megan Huntsman out of one side of its pustulent mouth, and condemns anti-abortion politicians from the other side. The awful power of perfect hypocrisy is revealed here.

    As a Gnonist, I of course support (strategically well-guided) wars, as well as positive and negative eugenics, under which withholding seed grain from parasitical starving masses surely has an honored place.

    Perhaps what bothers me most about abortion is that women are the ones with the power. It’s a weapon far too dangerous and subtle to be in the hands of women. They do not think strategically and are incapable of seeing the role infanticide plays in the cultivation of the body politic. It gives them too much leverage over those who are properly above them in the natural hierarchy. It’s a power that needs to be taken away from them and installed in the office of the pater familias in any counter reformation.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 6:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ur-mail Says:

    The move to anti-democracy is a slow and non-linear one. The closest-to-hand answer typically arrived at is “more democracy”. Only by attempting to participate in such a democracy can one get a visceral sense of the chaos and ineptitude that results from such a “solution”.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 7:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Thales Says:

    Trump is just the right billionaire at the right time saying the right things.

    As for Ace, he “quit” the GOP back in March, so it’s only a matter of time before he “quits” democracy altogether.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 7:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • Out of the Popcorn Zone | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 8:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • R7 Rocket Says:

    I would vote for Trump…

    Just to see what happens.

    http://youtu.be/uu3FXsps-BE

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 8:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • Yves Vannes Says:

    Trump’s job is to siphon off votes from the useless R candidate and to help his good friend H get elected. It will be effective. But then there is the plans of mice and men…

    Remember glasnost and perestroika? They were baby steps that were supposed to reform communism. Raising the issue and moving towards a slight reform put a crack in the wall that Russians blew up.

    Trump has raised and made public a verboten issue that only marginalized dissidents carry on about. Turns out the issue, now that it has been made public, is one of universal irritation among the founding native population – and it is taking on a life of its own. Even when The Donald ducks out, the head of steam this has acquired will roll on without him rolling over whom and who knows what.

    There is no putting the genie back in the bottle. The real concern now, it seems to me, is what we do with this wide spread and publically acknowledged anger. Go back to being absorbed by our careers, iPhones and favorite cable channels? Or do we light a fuse?

    [Reply]

    Hattori Reply:

    >”and it is taking on a life of its own. Even when The Donald ducks out, the head of steam this has acquired will roll on without him rolling over whom and who knows what.”

    I’ve seen this movie too many times now… public anger is worth little without a serious political arm making real use of it. It’s the left’s game.

    Remember the tens of thousands at PEGIDA in Europe? Yeah about that public anger…. The cathedral eats right wing populism for breakfast.

    [Reply]

    Yves Vannes Reply:

    I don’t disagree which is why I finish off with people losing interest. But if the underlying anger is potent enough the crash of the populist hair piece won’t matter.

    Personally, I don’t expect anything more than a collective hissy fit that will evapoate once the election cycle passes us by. Near infinite electronic distractions have made us overly passive.

    But stranger things have happened. History is full of wars that the experts were sure would never happen. There is always the possibility that some, what appears to be a trivial event, will snowball into a civilization changing event. I don’t expect it but I haven’t abandoned all hope.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    PEGIDA are pikers. Compare to the bricks and molotov cocktails at your usual leftist protest. Here is ‘blockupy’, also in Germany: http://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2015/mar/18/blockupy-anti-ecb-protest-in-frankfurt-in-pictures

    At least torch some cars, man.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 9:38 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    Why do so many people who’ve given up bother to keep talking?

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    I thought you’d given up talking.

    [Reply]

    Skilluminati Reply:

    Humans are social primates.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 10:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ruco Says:

    @vxxc2014 precisely because they’ve given up

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 11:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hawk Spitui Says:

    I’m fond of Trump for the simple reason that he’s a thumb in the eye of the Cathedral. Sure, that ain’t much, but it’s the best I’m likely to get for the foreseeable future. Whadaya got that’s better?

    [Reply]

    R7 Rocket Reply:

    I’m fond of Trump for the simple reason that he’s a thumb in the eye of the Cathedral. Sure, that ain’t much, but it’s the best I’m likely to get for the foreseeable future. Whadaya got that’s better?

    The death of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. We should all thank Russia and Iran on this one.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    All that publicity and Obama just can’t get no credit.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 11:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    “As a corrective to the disturbingly unironic Donald Trump enthusiasm affecting certain sections of NRx” You seem surprised. I’m not.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 16th, 2015 at 11:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    Trump is fun to watch and gets immigration talked about since this is an existential issue that cant wait for a possible collapse anything is better than nothing -maybe he does a really bad job but better than i thought and we have to wait and see what the conversation he triggers looks like.
    Hes either destroying the GOP or at least demonstrating to all they are the country club party and republicans and the party will have to decide how to proceed,American history shows these kinds of candidates can lead to a realignment hard to predict what kind. You might find he pulls in a lot of democrats as well.
    hes such a clown hes demonstrating what a joke democracy is in general hes going to make the dems look pretty stupid too if he can stay in the game long enough.hes going to be denigrated in a way that proles will find familiar they will realize its not simply money
    Hes also if he stays going to show things could change he might actually get the huge amount of whites that dont even bother to vote to enter the feild
    hes going to subliminally lay the groundwork for a strongman if nothing else hes demonstrating some are already ready for a strongman
    they are probably going to destroy him i do not think they will risk letting him get too far but even that will show their hand hes already folding a bit anf he may not proceed but hes crazy and stupid enough to potentially go kamakazi
    I really want to see what the potential is out in the citizenry
    i do wish it were anne coulter and Buchanan making the case instead though

    [Reply]

    Chris B Reply:

    @Michael “hes going to be denigrated in a way that proles will find familiar” Who cares about proles? They are worthless beyond being used as an excuse as to why group X simply must be given power.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Seriously ? is that official DENRX policy Proles are worthless?

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 12:11 am Reply | Quote
  • chedolf Says:

    @Thales Ace wrote dozens of posts over the last few months hyperventilating about the the Flynn//LaHood primary. Odd for someone who left the GOP, unless “quitting” was just posturing to firm up his cred as the “edgy one” in the boy band of mainstream conservative punditry.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 3:59 am Reply | Quote
  • Warg Franklin Says:

    The Trump hype is absolutely haram.

    Passivism says we kneel absolutely to the current structure and lose personal interest in its inner workings. If some desperate spurt of life within the system causes it to retract one of its leftmost pseudopods, this is no victory, and nothing to get worked up about; the whole thing is still relentlessly sliding downhill and will inevitably continue to do so until it collapses and is replaced.

    We should not concern ourselves with this Trump guy, except possibly for the lulz. It is much more interesting to focus on the inevitable collapse and what we can do to prepare for it.

    [Reply]

    Erebus Reply:

    That’s the only sensible position. Also described, though slightly differently, by Nydwracu here:
    http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-58/#comment-202345

    There are no “existential issues”, as Michael above put it, which haven’t been decided and settled years ago. The only way out of the hole the USG has dug for itself would require extraordinary brutality and resoluteness (see: the mid-20th Century in Europe and Asia) — so it’s not going to happen. We’ll see a spectacular collapse, or a slow, festering process of decay… but one of the other, without question.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 4:03 am Reply | Quote
  • SVErshov Says:

    in sanscrit there is no gaps between words. it is just one line of leters, one sentence which made of words glued together. imagine if somebody will come with an idea and propose – we must to introduce gaps, otherwise we will be unable to popularise it. conflict of intersts, 🙁 in case of split we can get something new, more stupid usually. that is how hindu language was created, which is based on sanscrit, but with gaps between words. delution of ideas and values happens all the time, but it really get viral with internet ect. after NRx formalised core group conflict of intersts between those who demand for activism and those who interested in developing ideas and by strength of their character capable to resist delution, become formalised too.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 7:11 am Reply | Quote
  • Xoth Says:

    Anyone serious about NRx and its principles should already be a civil servant worming their way through the innards of the Cathedral. The permanent bureaucracy is after all already quite close to the post-democratic ideal; all that is needed is a nudge in the right direction.

    In the meantime, do those of us who get to do so really have to vote for very serious candidates Hillary or Jeb? Is that what this blog means by ‘cosmic horror’?

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    “serious about NRx”

    “be a civil servant”

    and

    “post democratic ideals”

    “have to vote”

    What is this word salad sir, and where is the dressing?

    [Reply]

    Lucian of Samosata Reply:

    Those are definitely contradictory goals if taken at value, but Kissinger at least comes to mind as one that rode the tiger of the Cathedral in a very non-democratic way and accumulated enough capital to Exit from it, rather than being pwned by it.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    Dressing it is, then.

    The Moldbug view is, as I understand it, against current democracy for various reasons. The permanent bureaucracy is, in practice, only mildly exaggerating, an unelected government already. (Do we need to get into details on this point?)

    Will the successor of Western democracy make do without such a bureaucracy? Tear it down and rebuild it from the ground up? Or, I submit, would the natural starting point be inside that bureaucracy? Don’t forget to register Democrat if you feel inspired.

    The next point was related to Trump, and perhaps should be re-read with that in mind. If Trump is an ineligible choice, are we then restricted to voting for only the approved candidates, viz. Hillary and Jeb. One may of course also elect not to vote but instead, for instance, do laundry. My apologies for being unclear. The choice is then between laundry and cosmic horror.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 8:38 am Reply | Quote
  • Hanfeizi Says:

    To paraphrase MM, “Trump is to NRx as a ditch full of rubble is to a bridge.”

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 3:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • Lucian of Samosata Says:

    You guys are plumping for Trump, really? Oddschecker is giving me 500:1 on Charlie Sheen. I’ll be laughing at you plebes from my solid gold house.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 3:22 pm Reply | Quote
  • RL Says:

    In the matter of Trump, what is not to sincerely and non-ironically love? Our public politics has long been, in its essence and significance, nothing more than reality television, and not particularly good reality television at that. (Give me Bravo over Meet the Press any day.)

    Trump as a potentially viable candidate (although I think he really isn’t) simply makes this reality more transparent than ever before, and thus has some formalist value. It aligns perception with reality. I think it is wonderful. Who can gainsay that if we get Hillary vs. Trump, we are getting the choice that we, as a society, truly deserve? Be not dismayed, Admin. Gnon is not mocked.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 17th, 2015 at 4:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Mark Citadel Says:

    Reactionary view:

    He’s running in an election with an eye to actually winning? = effectively useless

    Trump may present a maximum trolling opportunity to revel in political incorrectness, but nothing more than that. No good leader could ever be elected by this debauched ‘will’ of the people.

    Nobody who is for abortion can be a true ethnocrat either. It is the death of nations in their darkest hour where it preys on the race’s degeneration with an eye to wipe it out. So, Trump wants to deport the Mexicans, but will the white percentage of the population continue to decrease thanks to the destruction of marriage, patriarchy, and the annihilation of unborn white people? Yes. Will this be addressed at any respectable media outlet? No.

    [Reply]

    Lucian of Samosata Reply:

    I oppose abortion on moral grounds (not the morality of killing per se, but the morality of permitting people not to have to face the consequences of their actions) but from an instrumental perspective, whites constitute a smaller proportion of abortions than other races, do they not?

    [Reply]

    Mark Citadel Reply:

    They do, however this is the incorrect metric to look at. whites do make up a smaller number of abortions, BUT abortions will make up a larger percentage of white births than they will of other minorities, because the birth rate is lower. Other races practically crap out kids, so they continue to gain on whites demographically in spite of the massive abortion rate.

    Now, I don’t want to say ‘abortion should be banned for whites only’, as this would entirely reduce this question to a pragmatic field of inquiry based around a whole range of circumstances we’d all rather didn’t exist, where it doesn’t necessarily belong. Abortion is morally repugnant in all circumstances, except perhaps in the bizarre cases where it can be construed as a self defense, if the baby will kill the mother.

    The fact is though, abortion has a negative effect, directly and indirectly on the Occidental people. It doesn’t actually harm other race’s replacement too much at all. Things shouldn’t be over-complicated. The races should live separately, abortion should be illegal in all civilized cultures, and we should not disregard the lives of our fellow men, and especially our fellow kin, simply because they haven’t passed through a birth canal.

    Gornahoor had a really great little piece recently where he talks about Evola’s justification for a ‘doctrine of pre-existence’

    http://www.gornahoor.net/?p=7183

    This is essentially my position.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 18th, 2015 at 5:06 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hail the Donald! | Neoreactive Says:

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    Posted on July 19th, 2015 at 5:20 am Reply | Quote
  • Lightning Round – 2015/07/22 | Free Northerner Says:

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    Posted on July 22nd, 2015 at 5:01 am Reply | Quote
  • A Note on the Shitlord Insurgent | Unthinkable Thought Says:

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    Posted on July 22nd, 2015 at 3:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • Robert What? Says:

    We all know that Donald Trump is not going to President. The fix is already in for Hillary. However we should all thank Trump for the entertainment and for raising issues no one else dares.

    [Reply]

    Posted on July 24th, 2015 at 12:00 am Reply | Quote

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