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	<title>Comments on: Populism</title>
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	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-178722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2015 03:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[A communist philosopher king of the ant people, even if a Moldbuggian rightist, is still an ordinary sense leftist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A communist philosopher king of the ant people, even if a Moldbuggian rightist, is still an ordinary sense leftist.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-178714</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2015 03:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-178714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Lesser Bull

The confusion is congenital; Moldbug is the source. I tried before; he learns, but regresses.  The rest of us grasp that Leftism is synonymous with radical egalitarianism.  Deviations from this  are called &quot;Right&quot;.  For leftism, universalism is a corollary; coercion a necessity. When it can be, populism is a means; when not, a vulgarity to be replaced by a dictatorship of the proletariat.  When it can be, the people&#039;s will is a justification; when not, something to be re-engineered or disdained.  Leftism is a paleolithic impulse willing itself to power.  

Yet:  &quot;Why attribute so much importance to what leftists think? It’s just foam on the surging current of demotism.&quot;

Moldbuggian muddle-headedness:

&#039;Leftism is (by definition) chaos, corruption. 
Democracy is corrupt because the elite, via the media,  inform the mass what to think; they manipulate.  
Thus, democracy is and the elite are Leftist.
The elite are corrupt -- deceptive -- because they believe that the people&#039;s will matters.
This belief thus must be the root and essence of the corruption called Leftism.
Ergo, if the elite would only embrace explicit authoritarianism -- like a dictator of the proletariat -- they would, guile unnecessary, become rightist!&#039;
...

When leftists justify their policies deontologically they are no less leftist, where leftism is understood in the common sense way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lesser Bull</p>
<p>The confusion is congenital; Moldbug is the source. I tried before; he learns, but regresses.  The rest of us grasp that Leftism is synonymous with radical egalitarianism.  Deviations from this  are called &#8220;Right&#8221;.  For leftism, universalism is a corollary; coercion a necessity. When it can be, populism is a means; when not, a vulgarity to be replaced by a dictatorship of the proletariat.  When it can be, the people&#8217;s will is a justification; when not, something to be re-engineered or disdained.  Leftism is a paleolithic impulse willing itself to power.  </p>
<p>Yet:  &#8220;Why attribute so much importance to what leftists think? It’s just foam on the surging current of demotism.&#8221;</p>
<p>Moldbuggian muddle-headedness:</p>
<p>&#8216;Leftism is (by definition) chaos, corruption.<br />
Democracy is corrupt because the elite, via the media,  inform the mass what to think; they manipulate.<br />
Thus, democracy is and the elite are Leftist.<br />
The elite are corrupt &#8212; deceptive &#8212; because they believe that the people&#8217;s will matters.<br />
This belief thus must be the root and essence of the corruption called Leftism.<br />
Ergo, if the elite would only embrace explicit authoritarianism &#8212; like a dictator of the proletariat &#8212; they would, guile unnecessary, become rightist!&#8217;<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>When leftists justify their policies deontologically they are no less leftist, where leftism is understood in the common sense way.</p>
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		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vimothy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, a couple of observations about the ongoing political situation in Europe, all the protests exploding. I think that these protests seem to converge in a series of demands, which, in their very spontaneity and obviousness, form a kind of – I apologise for this jargon – a kind of epistemological obstacle to the proper confrontation with the ongoing crisis. What people usually demand when they protest is, really, what it amounts to, it&#039;s a kind of popular version of Deluezian politics. People know what they want, they are able to discover and formulate it, but only through their own continuous engagement and activity. So we need, so we are told, active participatory democracy, not just representative democracy, with its electoral ritual every four years, which just interrupts the voter&#039;s passivity. Then, we are told, we need the self-organisation of the multitude, molecular, from beneath, not a centralised Leninist party with the leader, and so on and so on.

It is, I think, this myth of non-representative, self-organisation which is the last threat, the deepest illusion, which is most difficult to renounce. Yes, there are in every revolutionary process, ecstatic moments of group solidarity, when thousands, hundreds of thousands, together occupy a public space, like on Tahrir Square on Cairo two years ago. Yes, there are moments of intense collective participation, where local communities debate, decide; when people live in a kind of permanent emergency state, taking things into their own hands, with no leader guiding them. But, I claim, such states don&#039;t last. And tiredness, getting tired, is not a simple psychological fact. So now comes my first thesis, and I will try to be as brutal and provocative as possible.

&lt;i&gt;The large majority of people&lt;/i&gt;, – and I am not here presenting you the variation of this 99 percent of people are idiots, I am including myself into this large majority – large majority, I claim, &lt;i&gt;wants to be passive and just rely on an efficient state apparatus&lt;/i&gt;. I’m sorry to tell you, but I wouldn&#039;t like to live in a state where some kind of permanent participation and engagement is going on, and so on and so on. I would much prefer to be a passive citizen; there is a machinery of State, or whatever, social services, which smoothly does its work, and the less I know about it, all the better. And I don’t despise ordinary people for it.

Next point: people really know what they want when they are engaged. I claim that no, they don&#039;t. Up to a point, I claim, even the majority even don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to know, really. I claim that we should rehabilitate, – of course, not in the old class sense – the term, &quot;elite&quot;. What does a good politician do? A good politician absolutely doesn&#039;t follow or learn from the people what they want. No, he &lt;i&gt;tells&lt;/i&gt; them what they want. And if he&#039;s a really good politician, people have this &quot;ah-ha&quot; effect, &quot;oh my God, how clear, now I know what I want&quot;.

– Slavoj Zizek, &quot;A Reply to My Critics&quot;, talk delivered to Birbeck Institute of Humanities, 28th February, 2013]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, a couple of observations about the ongoing political situation in Europe, all the protests exploding. I think that these protests seem to converge in a series of demands, which, in their very spontaneity and obviousness, form a kind of – I apologise for this jargon – a kind of epistemological obstacle to the proper confrontation with the ongoing crisis. What people usually demand when they protest is, really, what it amounts to, it&#8217;s a kind of popular version of Deluezian politics. People know what they want, they are able to discover and formulate it, but only through their own continuous engagement and activity. So we need, so we are told, active participatory democracy, not just representative democracy, with its electoral ritual every four years, which just interrupts the voter&#8217;s passivity. Then, we are told, we need the self-organisation of the multitude, molecular, from beneath, not a centralised Leninist party with the leader, and so on and so on.</p>
<p>It is, I think, this myth of non-representative, self-organisation which is the last threat, the deepest illusion, which is most difficult to renounce. Yes, there are in every revolutionary process, ecstatic moments of group solidarity, when thousands, hundreds of thousands, together occupy a public space, like on Tahrir Square on Cairo two years ago. Yes, there are moments of intense collective participation, where local communities debate, decide; when people live in a kind of permanent emergency state, taking things into their own hands, with no leader guiding them. But, I claim, such states don&#8217;t last. And tiredness, getting tired, is not a simple psychological fact. So now comes my first thesis, and I will try to be as brutal and provocative as possible.</p>
<p><i>The large majority of people</i>, – and I am not here presenting you the variation of this 99 percent of people are idiots, I am including myself into this large majority – large majority, I claim, <i>wants to be passive and just rely on an efficient state apparatus</i>. I’m sorry to tell you, but I wouldn&#8217;t like to live in a state where some kind of permanent participation and engagement is going on, and so on and so on. I would much prefer to be a passive citizen; there is a machinery of State, or whatever, social services, which smoothly does its work, and the less I know about it, all the better. And I don’t despise ordinary people for it.</p>
<p>Next point: people really know what they want when they are engaged. I claim that no, they don&#8217;t. Up to a point, I claim, even the majority even don&#8217;t <i>want</i> to know, really. I claim that we should rehabilitate, – of course, not in the old class sense – the term, &#8220;elite&#8221;. What does a good politician do? A good politician absolutely doesn&#8217;t follow or learn from the people what they want. No, he <i>tells</i> them what they want. And if he&#8217;s a really good politician, people have this &#8220;ah-ha&#8221; effect, &#8220;oh my God, how clear, now I know what I want&#8221;.</p>
<p>– Slavoj Zizek, &#8220;A Reply to My Critics&#8221;, talk delivered to Birbeck Institute of Humanities, 28th February, 2013</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To say nothing of the outcome of WWII!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To say nothing of the outcome of WWII!!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There seems to be a false dilemma here.  The People are either leading, completely free of influence from elites, or else they have no moral agency whatever.  What we have in the real world is something in between.  The people are asked for their &quot;consent&quot; in some sense, periodically.  Sometimes the elites do perverse things in order to obtain that consent and sometimes the elites do perverse things despite having failed to obtain it.  Both of these problems are real.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be a false dilemma here.  The People are either leading, completely free of influence from elites, or else they have no moral agency whatever.  What we have in the real world is something in between.  The people are asked for their &#8220;consent&#8221; in some sense, periodically.  Sometimes the elites do perverse things in order to obtain that consent and sometimes the elites do perverse things despite having failed to obtain it.  Both of these problems are real.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Until Moldbug comes to claim the throne over his School of Rousing Rabblers, Jim will have to do.

For a time, a small enough group of gentlemanly enough can provide coherent enough leadership to an unimportant enough intellectual movement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until Moldbug comes to claim the throne over his School of Rousing Rabblers, Jim will have to do.</p>
<p>For a time, a small enough group of gentlemanly enough can provide coherent enough leadership to an unimportant enough intellectual movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Populism is the sham itself&#8212;the distance between what is written on paper, and piously imprinted upon the hearts of a people, and the Iron Law of Oligarchy, which obtains everywhere at all times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Populism is the sham itself&mdash;the distance between what is written on paper, and piously imprinted upon the hearts of a people, and the Iron Law of Oligarchy, which obtains everywhere at all times.</p>
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		<title>By: snorlax</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[snorlax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Also a bad outcome for Italy medium to long-term, by upsetting the balance of power there with a too-strong Sardinia-Piedmont.  And South Africa, although that also goes in the &quot;far away and impossible to predict&quot; category.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also a bad outcome for Italy medium to long-term, by upsetting the balance of power there with a too-strong Sardinia-Piedmont.  And South Africa, although that also goes in the &#8220;far away and impossible to predict&#8221; category.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Chris B:

Moldbug was certainly pushing that idea, but I don&#039;t think most people around here buy it.  We just haven&#039;t agreed on an alternative model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris B:</p>
<p>Moldbug was certainly pushing that idea, but I don&#8217;t think most people around here buy it.  We just haven&#8217;t agreed on an alternative model.</p>
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		<title>By: snorlax</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/populism/#comment-177172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[snorlax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4537#comment-177172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And of course I forgot to mention the disastrous outcome in Latin America.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course I forgot to mention the disastrous outcome in Latin America.</p>
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