Questions of Identity

There’s a remarkably bad-tempered argument taking place among racial identitarians at the moment (some links here), which makes the civility and intelligence of these remarks all the more notable. (For this blog, the Social Matter discussion was a reminder of the — similarly civilized — exchange with Matt Parrott that took place in the comment thread here.)

In case anyone is somehow unclear about the quality of the neighborhood White Nationalism finds itself in, or adjacent to, it’s worth a brief composite citation from the Andrew Anglin post cited above:

You [Colin Liddell] agree with Jewish agendas, which is why you would wish to obfuscate the fact that Jews are responsible for everything by claiming we shouldn’t blame the Jews for our problems. … The reason these two [CL plus Greg Johnson] are on the same side against me is that they share the quality that they have no interest in a popular movement, and despise anyone who would attempt to take that route. … I am, unashamedly, a populist. Every successful revolutionary movement in history has been populist in nature … Hitler was a populist.

While I have to confess to finding Anglin entertaining, I hope it goes without saying that this kind of thinking has nothing at all to do with NRx. In fact, revolutionary populism almost perfectly captures what Neoreaction is not. NRx is notoriously fissiparous, but on the gulf dividing all its variants from racial Jacobinism there can surely be no controversy. So the barking you can hear in the background serves as necessary context. (This does not count as an objection to the Neo-Nazis acquiring their own state, since that would make it even easier not to live among them than it is already. Unfortunately, it is not easy to imagine the separatist negotiations going smoothly.)

Because everything further to be said on this topic is complicated, I’m restricting my ambitions here to a series of discussion points, roughly sketched:

(1) NRx diversity conflicts are considerably less heated than those presently gripping the WNs, in part — no doubt — because the immediate political stakes are even smaller. It nevertheless introduces a massively complicating factor. For those (not exclusively found in the Tech-Comm camp, but I suspect concentrated there) who consider Moldbug‘s work canonical, the distinction between NRx and White Nationalism (as also antisemitism) is already quite clearly defined. Among those of a predominantly Eth-Nat. inclination, on the other hand, far more border-blurriness exists.

(2) The relationship between White Nationalism and HBD is also complex. From outside, the two are regularly conflated, but this is a crude error. The zone of intersection — exemplified by Frank Salter (and perhaps Kevin MacDonald) — is characterized by a concern with ethnic genetic interests, but this is by no means an axiomatic theoretical or practical commitment among HBD bloggers. More typically, HBD-orientation is associated with cosmopolitan spirit of scientific neutrality, meritocratic elitism, and a suspicion of the deleterious consequences of inbreeding, often accompanied by a tendency to philosemitism and sinophilia. Racial solidarity does not follow necessarily from biorealism, but requires an extraneous political impulse. Whatever connection is forged between WN and HBD owes more to their common opposition to the West’s dominant Lysenkoism and Leftist (blank-slate, victimological) race politics than to any firm internal bond.

(3) The triangular linkages between NRX, WN, and libertarianism are also intricate. Consider this (fascinating) talk by Richard Spencer, to a libertarian audience, for a quick sense of the territory being navigated. The moment of dark enlightenment for libertarians tends to accompany the recognition that the cultural foundations of laissez-faire social arrangements have an extreme ‘ethnic’ specificity. This accommodation of right libertarians to neoreactionary ideas is not associated with a comparable approximation to White Nationalism, however, since the very ethnic characteristics being accentuated — the high-trust cosmopolitan openness of strongly outbred populations — are exactly those provoking WN despair as the roots of pathological altruism and ethnomasochism. (This is a ruinous paradox basic to the relevant ruminations here.)

(4) A closely-connected problem is that of cutting ethnies at the joints. (Within NRx, this is the thede topic.) While there are no doubt some neoreactionaries comfortable with the category of ‘whites’ as a positive thede, for others it seems far too broad — whether due to its inconsistency within any historical nation, its amalgamation of populations culturally divided by the Hajnal line, its aggregation across relatively hard regional, class, and ideological divisions, or generally because — almost without exception — the most bitter and ruthless enemy of any given group of white people has been another group of white people. When WNs speak of a ‘World Brotherhood of Europeans’ it strikes most neoreactionaries (I suspect) as scarcely less comical than an appeal for universal human brotherhood, since it blithely encompasses the most vicious and ineliminable antagonisms in the world.

(5) Finally (for now) there’s the relation of NRx to the ENR — already a grating concern, and (since the ENR is also already highly diverse) beyond the scope of anything but the most glancing treatment. From the perspective of this blog, the most aggravating figure is undoubtedly Alain de Benoist — whose brilliance is directed towards the most radical articulation of anti-capitalism to be found anywhere outside the Marxist tradition (and even within it). NRx Tech-Comms have the same level of sympathy for such ideas as they do for the legacy of Saloth Sar or Hugo Chavez, and insofar as they are proposed as an element of a potential coalition, the enterprise is immediately collapsed to a farce. This touches upon the wider concern that WN thinking often appears to skirt, and on occasions to overtly embrace, a simple racial socialism and thus by some definitions reduce to a leftist — even extreme leftist — ideology. Seen from Outside in, there are far superior prospects to be found in the realist darkening of right libertarians than in coalition-building with clear-eyed collectivists.

(6) Things we can agree upon without much difficulty: The dominant power structure is racially obsessed and (schizophrenically) committed to the effacement of all racial reality; racial differences have substantial social consequences; the native populations of historically white societies are being subjected to an ideological (and criminal) onslaught of deranged intensity; the legal concept of ‘disparate impact’ is fundamentally corrupt; universal prescriptions for the social, political, cultural, and economic arrangements of diverse groups are doomed to failure; ethnic separatism (of any kind) is a legitimate political aspiration; free association and freedom of conscience are principles to be unconditionally defended; science is not answerable to ideology; … this list could no doubt be extended. (I am more uncertain about whether there is anything here that either NRxers or WNs would want to deduct.)

Clearly, and in general, there is much more to be said about all of this, with every reason for confidence that it will be said.

ADDED: Gregory Hood on the First Identitarian Congress.

ADDED: Fred Reed on monstrous über-racist Jared Taylor.

ADDED: Only tangentially connected, but too eloquent to miss out on, Charles Murray on the 20th anniversary of The Bell Curve: “… the roof is about to crash in on those who insist on a purely environmental explanation of all sorts of ethnic differences, not just intelligence. Since the decoding of the genome, it has been securely established that race is not a social construct, evolution continued long after humans left Africa along different paths in different parts of the world, and recent evolution involves cognitive as well as physiological functioning. […] The best summary of the evidence is found in the early chapters of Nicholas Wade’s recent book, ‘A Troublesome Inheritance.’ We’re not talking about another 20 years before the purely environmental position is discredited, but probably less than a decade. What happens when a linchpin of political correctness becomes scientifically untenable? It should be interesting to watch. I confess to a problem with schadenfreude.”

October 16, 2014admin 47 Comments »
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47 Responses to this entry

  • Alrenous Says:

    I don’t buy whiteness as a race because the instant the Progressive empire seriously falters, they’ll be at each other’s throats. Indeed as per the riff on Albion’s seed I saw recently,* immigration is a proxy war by south-east English against the rest; that is, even within Britain the war continues. You have to be willfully naive to think the war isn’t ongoing across Europe. Never mind whiteness don’t real, even Germany don’t real. All European countries are mini-empires, and the thedes have not forgotten.

    *(Sorry, I forget where.)

    Come to think, what is Ukraine but a backwater where Progressive empire faltered early? That’s the real state of white as a race.

    Whiteness can be back-defined as those races whose elites can hack Athenian philosophy and thus be intentionally designed and support science. Of course most of the reason I like this definition is because it pisses off Neo-Nazis.

    Alain de Benoist: as a leader I would relish a war with a country that implemented Benoist’s designs. It’s not a cause for enmity, more for pity.


    Michael Reply:

    Family feuds can be the bitterest that doesn’t make them any less related.Obviously race is a continuum and various close tranches can have deep division. That still doesn’t make them more dissimilar to much different tranches.HBD is pointing out biological parameters you are pointing out philosophical differences of opinion which can be changes. The Cathedral has no problem changing opinions of newly minted urbanite BOBOS regardless of their various white strains, or even which side of the Hajinal line the descend from; it does have a big problem changing much at all about the non whites.It seems many here like their progressive counterparts have no real life experience of non whites outside of grad school. This lack of understanding how different non whites are and the similar adoption of Cathedral prejudices against WN and its class prejudices make you see these philosophical differences as more entrenched than they are. what you see as racial division among whites is more like a falling out Barrons over the spoils of war. . what is needed is a unifying force not new genetics.sure a patchwork might be a part of that process if someone can develop a safety preventing patchworks from infighting.ethno ties are a natural binder however distasteful our upbringing may make them seem to us.WN is a cogent reaction to what is happening. NAZI fetishism silliness and socialism aside.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 10:09 am Reply | Quote
  • Implying Implications Says:

    While I rarely comment here except to set the record straight regarding my particular internet thede, I just wanted to say that it’s great to see you using (what passes for) plain language and attempting to articulate some common ground between the tech-comm position and ethnats. I think that many ethnats / Identitarians / moderate reactionaries tend to misjudge the tech-comm wing of NRx and yourself especially as being “anti-White” or unconcerned with racial issues, when the reality is that you simply have a more nuanced view that places more emphasis on…welll…technology and commerce, of course. The criticisms directed against the concept of a “white race” and against the general intellectual quality and monomaniacal tone of most WN material are, from my perspective as a middle-of-the-trichotomy NRx follower, not meant (merely) to disparage WN rhetorically as rivals or as low-class/ethedish, but are earnest and should be taken more seriously by WN thinkers. I also think that you and other NRxers of tech-comm persuasion wish that there was a higher quantity of high-quality thinking and discourse among WNs. As you pointed out, even though it’s not your bag, you and other tech-comms entirely understand the tack that WNs take and wish them well in their quest for an ethnostate as long as they leave your high-tech cosmopolitan city-states alone.

    Again, it’s just nice to see you reaching out for dialogue, especially in the wake of the recent 8chan conspiracy theory craziness. I thought you’d be tempted to start trolling the shit out of WN’s by accentuating your lust for robocalypse; turns out you’re more human than people give you credit for.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 10:27 am Reply | Quote
  • Bryce Laliberte Says:

    At first I thought it a caricature to suggest that WN’s would say something to the effect that “the only significant variable in the effective of governance is race,” but then I found them saying it time and again. I suppose I was a bit shocked, if in hindsight I shouldn’t be whatsoever; these are individuals to whom questions of economy, culture, and social norms have no subsistence except as *racial* features of a society. Sheer sophistry. They may not be completely independent factors, in the sense that one side of a cube is not entirely independent from the other sides, but nonetheless each is essential to the construction of a cube.

    I see NRx taking a leading role between dissident rightist ideologies. The encounter with actual Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and other assorted flavors of social occasionalism (race is god) has left a very bad taste in my mouth. Not that I had any real sympathy for these types, beyond admitting that race is a thing, among others, but it appears that upon confrontation with a rightist of insufficient anti-Semitism they all turn into Nazified caricatures of leftists. Without being reined in, these groups will never be more than epiphenomenal eddies of opposition. Indeed, they’re little more than universalists themselves, save only for whites.

    Might I suggest sedevacantism as another dissident rightist ideology worth throwing on the fire.


    Alrenous Reply:

    The Pope’s job is to tell you what to do. If you think the Pope’s a retard, then you think they shouldn’t do their job.
    Is there some nuance between ‘not the real Pope,’ and ‘there’s currently no real Pope’? I don’t see how a Pope that can’t and doesn’t do their job is in any way a real Pope.
    Moreover, given that election is a human procedure, you can’t expect 100% accuracy. Rationally there must be mistakes from time to time.


    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    The only thing the Pope really needs to do is invoke the authority of his office when it’s required. This is actually a very limited role. Being a bad pope, a bum pope, etc aren’t incompatible with being pope.


    admin Reply:

    Your position (as I understand it) that, although the present Pope is probably the Antichrist, sedevacantism should be rigorously opposed, is one that might be milked for considerably greater Internet turmoil than has yet surrounded it.

    Bryce Laliberte Reply:

    I’m working on a piece for Social Matter on Monday. Should hopefully irk some sedes.

    Alrenous Reply:

    Example of when it’s required?

    an inanimate aluminum tube Reply:

    “Might I suggest sedevacantism as another dissident rightist ideology worth throwing on the fire.”

    Please elaborate on why.

    The non-dissident Catholic Church isn’t looking so hot at the moment.


    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    We Orthodox have borne enough turmoil to tell you that if you think rebellion is the solution to your religious problems, that’s your religious problem.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 10:43 am Reply | Quote
  • Tryptophan Says:

    This is the trouble with white nationalism. It is strategically barren. It offers no effective political program. You can be as smart as you want and think about white nationalism forever, and you will not come up with any productive strategy for collective action, white or otherwise.

    At its best, white nationalism offers a sensible description of a general problem. This problem certainly exists, and it falls under the larger category of bad government. (If allowing the old cities of North America to be overrun and rendered largely uninhabitable by murderous racist gangs isn’t bad government, really, I’m not sure what is.)

    But white nationalism offers no formula at all for how to transition from bad government to good government. Indeed, to the extent that white nationalism succeeds in anything, it motivates its enemies, keeping everyone stuck in the same old destructive patterns.

    And the worst thing about white nationalism, in my opinion, is just that it’s nationalism. Nationalism is really another word for democracy – the concept of democracy makes no sense except as an algorithm for determining the General Will of the People, that is, the Nation. And whatever its electoral formula or lack thereof, every nationalist government has seen itself as in some sense a representative of the Volk


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 11:37 am Reply | Quote
  • Jane Doe Says:

    First emotional response after reading “I am unashamedly a populist” reminds me that the proles (bless their souls) are not any sort of people to be taking advice from. They just aren’t smart enough, though their status as a despised group in modernity does mean they see some things more clearly than other groups. They are sensors, no analysts, and should be treated as such intellectually.

    Thank you for emphasizing Moldbug’s status as the arch tech-comm.

    The HBD people I see generally hate white nationalism, since some white nations are better than others, and besides the point they don’t seem to much care about politics so long as genetics keeps getting funding.

    As for a universal European brotherhood, my favorite response is “Only an American could come up with something so stupid.” And indeed WN seems to be very American, and I do say this as an insult..


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    @Ms. Jane Doe,

    No Madam you mean Harm and to Profit from it.

    We lack sensors and intellect: no we have senses and minds you sociopath.

    We should do better taking advice from certified and institutionalized lunatics then Intellectuals, who are expertly destroying Western Civilization literally at the speed of light – the actual you know velocity of money now, as it’s all digital Fiat Fraud.

    No madam- we should like the True Muslims relieve your spindly shoulders of the burden of your swollen and insane, perverted heads wherever we shall find ye. Oh son of men [instead of freakish shirking, cowardly lying thieving pornography obsessed madmen] here are intellectuals, come and kill them. Before they corrupt, poison and ruin another generation of your children.

    Do you think when Proles run apprenticeships for instance they encourage children to sexual perversion, vice and narcotics? No, that place in History belongs to Western Intellectuals. Our children might as well be handed over to honest pimps and vigorous, manly gangsters at birth. No Intellectual would live 3 minutes among actual gangsters.

    What you call intellect is nothing more than the fallen Priest class engaging in crime, you are simply criminals and hence not hard for us to understand. Hustlers in the groves of academe instead of street corners or prison where ye belong. Criminals who procedurally manipulate others into doing their bidding. Gutless and not our kind of ordinary decent and brave criminal at all. Even the Nigger at his worst will have a higher place in the afterlife and indeed History. The Nigger does his own dirty work.

    No Madam you mean Harm and to Profit from it. You use credentials to dazzle my Brothers and Sisters and then lead them by smiles into every vice, drugs didn’t explode into Western Society from the Hood they exploded from College. The Boomers fell so hard because they were still Tabula Rasa at 18. Their parents sin was trusting the Professoriat.

    You are freaks bred of our folly at trusting you. You produce nothing. You’ve idiotically concentrated yourselves in Cities that are utterly and completely dependent on us for everything day by day even your water. You aren’t capable of fending or defending yourselves, for that you trust the very proles you insult with every breath and look. The Military and Police Madam are proles [at least as far as your capable of sensor-ing them].

    Yes we’re smiling still today as the sun rises. We’ll be smiling over your corpses come a sunset soon. Indira Gandhi’s Sikh’s also smiled and nodded at her, right to the end.

    And your demise be assured will be very American, whatever fate befalls the West it will be American.


    We’re coming, and we’ll hack and burn you from any earth we share with Ye.


    Michael Reply:

    yes i often smile when i think of the fate of the elites at the hands of their sock puppets in the cities when the collapse happens, god they are stupid


    Michael Reply:

    Americans are optimistic about whiteness for a couple sensible reasons first because we managed to avoid here the ethnic strife your overlords there foisted upon you at a cost of hundreds of millions European lives which were replaced by African and Mideastern immigrants who now threaten your very existence.Also Americans having an even larger immigrant population understand this threat is existential, that multiculturalism simply can not work. Because races are not selected for the same environments and will have unequal outcomes in a given environment, that environment being of western design will create a non white underclass and overclass exploitable by progressives and non white power groups alike.HBD scientists and bloggers have brought the facts to the surface that this disparate impact is not the result of hate etc it is not their job to construct policy. Your statement that proles are not smart enough is the sort of statement our current elites make. First its incorrect IQ is still pretty widely
    distributed across socio economic lines, having a high IQ and coming from a upper middle class family but working in a prole industry i travel in a wide variety of circles and trust me its not the faculty of yale Id pick to lead the future high IQ proles are the way to go.but Im sure you mean you dont trust the gut instincts of average proles, well even there i disagree again while not my first choice I would take there instincts over the instincts of the overage BoBo anyday, at least they have the instinct to live and breed still.I would also add its hilarious you think Europeans are more qualified than Americans.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 1:43 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    The difference between WN and NR/NRX is that white nationalists see themselves as being in a defensive role, where NR/NRX sees a question of social order.

    What is the best social order?

    History tells us: ethnonationalism, monarchism and a strong sense of culture. Minimal government, and economy managed but not controlled. Strong identity, which I encapsulate in the triad of culture, heritage and values.

    This lets us see that the root of nationalism is not a great race war against African-Americans and Jews, but the need for any related group to stand on its own. All of Western Europe shares a Nordic-Germanic bloodline and should preserve itself, as 5% of the world’s population, against intrusion by all others.

    Other races should do the same.

    We do not need to scapegoat people or groups. The source of our downfall is an idea: equality. Because this idea has no boundary, it expands to include destruction of all barriers to absolute autonomy of the individual, including culture, values, heritage, race, class, sex, size, age, intelligence, etc.

    NR/NRX is the recognition by humanity that the equality-based narrative from 1789 onward (and possibly long before) is a historical dead-end that will destroy our civilization and leave behind a third-world ruin as we see in most of Eastern Europe, South America and now the United States.

    Our goal is to avoid this Brazilification, not suppress or denigrate other races.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 2:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • Sean Says:



    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 3:02 pm Reply | Quote
  • mark power Says:

    So you weak-willed goofs want to live among blacks? You are so afraid of being labeled racists that you lie to yourselves. Pathetic.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 3:33 pm Reply | Quote
  • Questions of Identity | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 3:39 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:

    Point of Order:

    Can “antisemitism” be defined please? I see this as a red flag “bad think” word that shuts down inquiry. I’m not a student of Macdonald but his general thesis seems on track– that as an out group Jews have developed survival strategies that have necessarily impacted other groups over time– for better or worse. The same could be argued of other out groups (Chinese & Indian minorities in East Africa and throughout the Pacific, etc). Because this theory seems to fit doesn’t not necessarily equate to the opinion-holder being anti-Jew. Just as HBD doesn’t equate to being anti-Black.

    I liked Jane Doe’s observation that only an American could come up with an idea as dumb as universal Euro brotherhood– it does seem a perverse attempt at universalism from a most inappropriate perspective. Americans– we can universalize everything! Yay!


    Alrenous Reply:

    The Jews are easy to control, they’ve always been the whipping boys of real power. Being antisemite marks you as a weak pleb and a gull that accepts scapegoats for your impotent wrath. That said, philosemitism seems dumb to me – the Jews are nobody’s friend. They’re dogs, and you either get the leash end or the tooth end. But, I repeat, don’t blame the dog for its master’s command.


    Deogolwulf Reply:

    “Being antisemite marks you as a weak pleb and a gull that accepts scapegoats for your impotent wrath.”

    Since we know from the real world that not liking Jews counts as anti-Semitic, your psychologising, if widespread, would present us all with a stark choice:

    Like Jews, or else be widely marked as a weak and gullible pleb.

    That could prove tough to a man of certain taste and character who would also like to uphold his social standing. He could flee the quandary if he kept his mouth shut except in pretence, but not if, alongside his not liking Jews, his character also included frankness and courage. Either way, it would be damaging: in the first way, to self-esteem; in the second, to social standing.

    It reminds me of an older dichotomy:

    Fraternity or death!

    which Chamfort rightly understood as:

    Be my brother, or I’ll kill you.

    The threat of yours, admittedly, is gentler. In any case, a man of good character knows what to do when presented with such dichotomies, though he might struggle to fall short of bad language in response.


    Hanfeizi Reply:

    Jews are just the Mentats to the Atlanticist elite’s Landsraad. If you’re going after they, you be treein’ the wrong squirrel.


    admin Reply:

    @ EPiO: Did you read the Moldbug piece? It’s typically intricate — certainly not a crude moralistic denunciation.


    Ex-pat in Oz Reply:

    I did (I have read– and re-read- and continue to re-read! MM’s canon)– and concur with your own read. To MM, it (AE or philosemitism et al) is not a b/w issue and (like HBD in a broader sense) one only NRx really has the intellectual courage to address in totality.

    off-topic addendum: I LOVE EBOLA-CHAN


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 7:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    @implying Implications, Bryce Laliberte,
    Exit implies segregation. Tech-comm probably is eth-nat in practice, but works at a higher level of abstraction; that is, inherently understands the issue more deeply.
    My criticism of eth-nats is: planned economy. Open immigration is planned economy, but the opposite of stupidity is not wisdom. The right way is to stop planning (for the most part) and let the incentives fall where they may.


    vxxc2014 Reply:


    “Exit implies segregation.” Like the Elysium’s they already live in?

    “Tech-comm probably is eth-nat in practice,” – already long practice, except for menials.

    “but works at a higher level of abstraction;” – nothing abstract about it, that’s their reality and they’ll wipe out America’s Mericans to do it. Mind you if the brainiacs had read any Mexican History at all they’d know 1] when the Boss is weak he literally gets eaten, 2] The Spanish [white as Albinos] know this well and know they’re losing their grip over Meso slaves and so are happy to buy time sending them North.

    Truly it takes a super high IQ to import the Cannibals [ritualistic eating of roasted limbs, Santa Muerte etc], the very Cannibals who will eat you as soon as the Bubbas and White Ethnics Police are gone.

    [White Ethnics=Code for White Catholics BTW].

    It truly is a mark of modern Intellectual genius to import the very Cannibals who will eat you.


    Michael Reply:

    ETHNAT IS NOT NOT NOT NATIONAL OR ANY SOCIALISM there may be a lot of nazi fetish websites and we may see they are natural allies but that does not imply ethnat must be linked to socialism, its worth noting socialism [WHICH I DESPISE} would be a lot less poisonous in a ethnat state. But what ethnat is, is the bedrock of any stable state.This does not preclude guest workers or non citizen residents with restricted liberties.Christianity on the other hand is a socialist doctrine and that is a problem for DENRX


    admin Reply:

    “Ethnat” is a battlefield. You seem to be presupposing an outcome to the conflict taking place there which seems premature, to say the least. There are plenty of full-socialist, proud (and self-declared) Neo-Nazis who think they’re entitled to this politics, and that they’re going to win.


    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 9:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • an inanimate aluminum tube Says:

    Jared Taylor supports a world brotherhood of Europeans. Jared Taylor thinks Jews are white.[1]

    Jared Taylor doesn’t think Asians are white, but Jared Taylor has said

    “I think Asians are objectively superior to Whites by just about any measure that you can come up with in terms of what are the ingredients for a successful society. “[2]

    Jared Taylor holds a lot of views that are atypical for WNs.

    If he was a 23 year post-libertarian instead of a 63 year old conservative he might be a neoreactionary instead of WN. Wiki tells me he even likes Hans Herman Hoppe.

    Attacking WN through Anglin is probably more legit than attacking WN through Taylor.

    Because the schism between WN and NRX does seem to be, at some level, elitist vs populist.

    Even an “aristocratic” “elitist” WN must “represent the interests of ordinary people.” at some level. And the dictionary tells me that’s “populism”.


    One thing that separates Taylor from much of the radical right, however, is his lack of anti-Semitism; he told MSNBC-TV interviewer Phil Donahue in 2003 that Jews “are fine by me” and “look white to me.”



    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 10:02 pm Reply | Quote
  • an inanimate aluminum tube Says:

    White actually is an ethnic group… in the United States. It’s kind of a lame ethnicity, but it fits all the criteria and there are a number of us who really don’t have any other ethnic identity available. Unfortunately it lacks a lot of the cool bells and whistles that more established ethnic groups have… like funny hats, traditional dances, tribal solidarity and ethnic nepotism.

    WN aims to remedy that, without much success so far.

    Another problem is that outbred Hajnal whites tend to suffer from a tendency to universalize things… like morality… and whiteness.

    A “white” ethnic group exists, but it’s essential for them to recognize that not all people with white skin belong to it.


    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    white was invented by Americans because they are crossbred Euros not living in Europe; In the circles in which I have lived all of my life, we identify as anglos, and not ‘whites’. I have always found myself at odds with ‘germanic’ lines of thought, and annoyed at anglos who adopt them.

    RE: Jews – due to the breeding practice of Jews, (passing Jewishness through the mother) Jews probably are, other than the very highly inbred groups, as white as most whites, genetically speaking. Some WN’s seem to posit a ‘super-gene’ or something that makes them still Jewish, but given the low % of Jewish blood in many of them, all it would take for the whole house of cards to collapse (much like the Natsoc one did) is a strong discrediting of that identity. ‘Whites’ can’t dissolve themselves except by suicidal outbreeding – getting everyone to have kids with blacks, or some other mad scheme – but Jews? They’re already white, all they need is a reason to be embarrassed and/or disgusted with Jewishness for most of them to ‘disappear’.

    If WN were creative, they would approach it this way. The really inbred Jews already segregate themselves, voluntarily.


    an inanimate aluminum tube Reply:

    No, you’re incorrect.

    Genetically, Ashkenazi Jews are still heavily Southwest Asian, unlike “white” people. And they’re inbred, rather than outbred. Not in a derogatory sense, but in the sense that any two Jews from a particular group are as closely related as 4th or 5th cousins. That’s probably the case for a lot of groups but it is not the case for most Northern European “whites”, who are extremely outbred. Not necessarily in the sense of mixed with other ethnic groups, but in the sense that they avoided marrying people who were closely related for many centuries.

    “The various Jewish groups were more related to each other than to non-Jews, as well. Within every Jewish group, individuals shared as much of their genome as two fourth or fifth cousins”

    You’ll see the problem with what you suggest if you read HBD chick’s stuff on the Hajnal line (linked in the OP) and follow it up with her stuff on the Catholic Church’s mandated program of extreme outbreeding and the relationship between outbreeding and altruism / civic mindedness / universalism, as compared to the healthy clannishness of more inbred populations. The areas within the Hajnal line roughly overlap with the areas where the Church’s outbreeding experiment went on.

    Altruism / civic mindedness / universalism are traits that can accomplish a lot of cool stuff, as long as you’re in an environment where the rest of the group shares those traits. It allows for cooperation on a larger scale than just the clan, extended family or whatever. Getting away from “I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, then my cousins and I against strangers”.

    But the strategy of altruism / civic mindedness / universalism is vulnerable to exploitation by normal, non-outbred people. If you’re blindly following a strategy of altruism / civic mindedness / universalism and you let me into the group, I can easily free ride on those benefits, while looking out for only my own, rather than worrying about some bizarre ideological construct like the community or the nation. I don’t have to feel like a bad guy for doing this either, since my morality would, in this hypothetical, be particular, not universal. “Is it good for my group?”

    So you can see how a group of clannish outsiders with strong verbal abilities and an ability to pass themselves off as members of other groups would basically be the white man’s kryptonite.

    It’s widely theorized that occupational and social restrictions placed on Ashkenazi Jews in the middle ages acted as a sort of eugenics program.

    See: Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence by Gregory Cochran.

    However during this time (some) Europeans were also undergoing a eugenics experiment of a sort, as the Catholic church enforced bizarre mating patterns banning marriages out to SIXTH cousins. The results of this experiment were more mixed, leading to great achievements, but also leaving the population ripe for parasitism.


    Mark Reply:

    Jews are actually more outbred than Europeans:

    I think this fact has been presented to some HBD bloggers who had argued otherwise. But they mostly ignore it or try to fit it into their theory somehow.

    A lot of the inbreeding/outbreeding and genetics topics seems to have been confused by amateur HBD bloggers .

    Posted on October 16th, 2014 at 10:18 pm Reply | Quote
  • strelkov Says:

    How much easier might life had been if sometime in the 1850’s people had definitively decided emphatically whether Jews are/are not white.


    Posted on October 18th, 2014 at 3:34 am Reply | Quote
  • NRx_N00B Says:

    Alrenous Says: “I don’t buy whiteness as a race because the instant the Progressive empire seriously falters, they’ll be at each other’s throats.”

    I’m not sure about that. As a multicultural prog empire implodes it’ll most likely balkanize along racial lines, along similar lines to self segregation amongst prisoners in jails — a microcosm of society at large.


    Posted on October 18th, 2014 at 5:50 am Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    I seem to have not read something everyone else around here has because i just dont see this prejudice against WN as rational. yeah i see that actual wn are pretty odd and in need of intellectual leadership but until this blog i kind of thought thats what DENRX would be. No political program ? meaning what , that nazi fetishism and socialism are stupid yeah duh but ethno state is a perquisite for any sort of functioning society this is the foundation of HBD and the bedrock of HBD without it we are a bunch of idiot D and D players wanting kings and popes. No you cant claim capitalism or even technology those were already well supported. even progressives like capitalism now,Moldbugs whole Cathedral meme is not original even Sarah Palin gets the Media Academia Unions rtc are in cahoots and shes was certainly not the first to notice. Thirty five years ago as a non racist jew loving new yorker I was still able to discern the political collusion enough to coin the phrase Jew York Times.This trans human shit is ridiculous and Im embarrassed by it first because its never going to happen second because who would be in favor of it self hating elites who we are supposed to be against.the Idea that democracy is ruinous also attributed to moldbug while certainly true is hardly new. Tocqueville? so DENRX is really An acknowledgement of evolutionary biology applied to these other known problems. its the only thing we have settled the rest is still a mess. As I keep pointing out the religions leg of this stool is not going to work any better here than it does in conservatism- we cant claim to be rationalists and religious sorry i like religion but its been the downfall of conservationism. Unlike a lot of you it seems I came here from the right well at least my liberal thinking days are decades behind. Im an Alpha and I am naturally uncomfortable with this hierarchy thing unless I get to be the king then im all for it but I understand the equal er we all actually are the more freedom we can allow. Now Im not sure what these cosmopolitan cities you refer to are. Growing up in one of the biggest NYC i agree they have their merits but if I were redesigning them with what i know now non white immigrants would be admitted on our needs and their merits and certainly could not become citizens practice law or own media etc if that could be worked out i think its advantageous if not i think we end up back where we are now. squeezed between intellectually superior ethnicities and the white mans burden


    Posted on October 18th, 2014 at 12:47 pm Reply | Quote
  • NRx_N00B Says:

    Michael Says: “Moldbugs whole Cathedral meme is not original………the Idea that democracy is ruinous also attributed to moldbug while certainly true is hardly new”

    True enough, I add that the idea that progressivism is a flavor of secular Christianity isn’t original either — the concept definitely predates Moldbug, so it can’t really be claimed as his own. The skeleton of the idea is almost as old as dirt.


    Michael Reply:

    I agree which is why despite a romantic attachment to roman Catholicism i really don’t see how the religious DENRX triad doesn’t present problems i might have added because its a christian religion and while i notice its mostly a catholic movement i dont believe the problems that arose in Western civilization [ of which granted Christianity was hugely responsible] would not have occurred without martin luther. christianity is a leftist creed. its also an offshoot of judeaism so possibly this explains why it doesnt work for us


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Micheal has nailed it.


    Posted on October 18th, 2014 at 2:28 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    Great post. all of it. My chief concerns being a moderate understanding and necessary application of #3 and the utter extinction of #6. That is we stop being auto-genocidal and exterminate the traitors who seek that outcome.

    Now you understand NRxn is also spurning direct power and hence direct success. He’s correct about you need people for power. NRxn isn’t interested in Power.

    That’s a good thing for everyone.

    I endorsed and still do Nyan Sandwich’s formulation of Analytics. I’ll also add Red Pill success first ever [which you know if they even had still Shinto Christianity instead of a fervent hatred of all things Christian to the extent of sacralizing abortion and sodomy, porn etc] if they even just went to services once in awhile esp Holidays Red Pill wouldn’t work. Finally there’s the Overton leakage into mainstream right, also a good thing.

    Don’t follow analytics into real world power, policy, execution. That’s madness and we’ve had enough madness in power for awhile, thanks. We being Humanity, especially Europeans. Power’s canvas is the ticklish human skin, not paper. Power is an art, hopefully guided by common sense, being well grounded, experience, apprenticeship, cursus honorium of some sort of trial. Not Theory+Power=LARP-TOPIA.

    My actual Thede is Valor and standing up for yourself and your own [fits in neatly with my Irish Catholics raised amongst Scot-Irish background I assure you]. Valor always and should be open to all who’ll stand as Infantry – because it’s fucking priceless and rare. “You will die on this line.” Sorry most will run at first chance, all of history clear on this matter.

    Whites just need to be MEN and not doormats, or receptacles for White Lily Elites guilt and the leftovers of their failed social experiments. If we want to know why, we can look at the Blacks and the 2d Generation [born here] Hispanics. <= these poor mesos just can't get a break. 5000+ miles risking death and paying a King's ransom to see their offspring become Hood Rats from Birth.

    "Blacks were the Canary in the Coal Mine, and we missed it." – Handle.

    Black friend said to me this week [when I asked why all the cars in the White Working Class neighborhood I met him in were home on a work day] that they're not working here now. All you need for any group is 1] Progressive Govt destroys Industry. See Upstate NY for USA patient Zero. 2] Welfare after work gone 3] Drugs will now follow within Months = IT'S ALL OVER FOR YOU AND YOURS, WELCOME TO THE GHETTO/HOOD/PROJECTS/ESTATES/FAVELAS. It works in every nation on earth. We're not immune as Fishtown and London quite prove.


    Posted on October 19th, 2014 at 9:35 am Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @an inanimate aluminum tube

    I think Jared recognized earlier that to have a shot at flipping the elites one must try to flip the jews. he speaks several languages french and japonese?and went to yale? i think . He also recognised early the importance of hate facts and has done a couple pretty impressive studies on crime.Hes no populist if anything hes a bit too elite but hes certainly as DENRX as anyone. That said hes a bit creepy but so are the rest of us gouls


    Posted on October 19th, 2014 at 12:26 pm Reply | Quote
  • NRx_N00B Says:

    Handle Says: “Blacks were the Canary in the Coal Mine, and we missed it.”


    In his last post, Greer pretty much nails these truths perfectly [Dark Age America: The Hour of the Knife]


    Posted on October 19th, 2014 at 5:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • mike3 Says:

    Why should some authority come in and tell people NOT to mix with whomever they may like to?


    mike3 Reply:

    (or anyone else for that matter — if someone “race-mixes”, it’s NOBODY’S DARN BUSINESS)


    Posted on December 26th, 2014 at 4:39 am Reply | Quote
  • Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week - Page 400 - Ultimate Metal Forum Says:

    […] but not so much that I would be ecstatic over the imposition of any possible city state. This old post by Land kind of covers some of the different question marks for me in terms of specific […]

    Posted on September 20th, 2015 at 11:53 pm Reply | Quote

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