<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Quote note (#130)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2015 06:56:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wally Greeniker</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-139173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wally Greeniker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2014 00:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-139173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We are all socialists now.&quot; - William Harcourt (British lawyer, journalist and Liberal statesman) 1885]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We are all socialists now.&#8221; &#8211; William Harcourt (British lawyer, journalist and Liberal statesman) 1885</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Izak</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-139078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Izak]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-139078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was a good response, thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a good response, thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aeroguy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aeroguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2014 06:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SpaceX is exactly as privatized as the airmail carriers during the 1930&#039;s.  It&#039;s private in as much the rest of the military industrial complex is private (and which I consider SpaceX a part of as much as ULA).  Mind you I&#039;m extremely disappointed at how little they are being subsidized such that there wasn&#039;t enough government contract money to entice Orbital to make their own manned launch vehicle.  The science and engineering gets done when it&#039;s lubed up with pork.  It often takes decades or sometimes even close to a century before work that was started can begin to make profits. Corporate research is infamous for having an extremely high time preference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SpaceX is exactly as privatized as the airmail carriers during the 1930&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s private in as much the rest of the military industrial complex is private (and which I consider SpaceX a part of as much as ULA).  Mind you I&#8217;m extremely disappointed at how little they are being subsidized such that there wasn&#8217;t enough government contract money to entice Orbital to make their own manned launch vehicle.  The science and engineering gets done when it&#8217;s lubed up with pork.  It often takes decades or sometimes even close to a century before work that was started can begin to make profits. Corporate research is infamous for having an extremely high time preference.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aeroguy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aeroguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2014 05:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The word I would use for what Nyan is describing is conquest.  It is done between two parties.  When I use the word redistribution, I use it to describe three parties, where party A uses it&#039;s power to to grant favors for party B at party C&#039;s expense.  Conquest is generally pleasing to Gnon, though even might makes right can gives way to he who has the gold makes the rules.  Redistribution is far more fraught with peril.

I&#039;m inclined to agree with Nyan that exceptions exist but hard cases make bad law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word I would use for what Nyan is describing is conquest.  It is done between two parties.  When I use the word redistribution, I use it to describe three parties, where party A uses it&#8217;s power to to grant favors for party B at party C&#8217;s expense.  Conquest is generally pleasing to Gnon, though even might makes right can gives way to he who has the gold makes the rules.  Redistribution is far more fraught with peril.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m inclined to agree with Nyan that exceptions exist but hard cases make bad law.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deogolwulf</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138776</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deogolwulf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2014 00:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“A leftist is always a socialist.”

Except when he’s not. (E.g., when he’s a liberal, a libertarian, an anarchist, or a common-or-garden American who erroneously calls himself a rightist because he opposes the leftist who “is always a socialist”.) Liberty or equality? I have a problem with leftists. Full-stop.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“A leftist is always a socialist.”</p>
<p>Except when he’s not. (E.g., when he’s a liberal, a libertarian, an anarchist, or a common-or-garden American who erroneously calls himself a rightist because he opposes the leftist who “is always a socialist”.) Liberty or equality? I have a problem with leftists. Full-stop.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Porphy's Attorney</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Porphy's Attorney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2014 00:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Postscript: not that Vimothy needs further refutation beyond what Admin &amp; Hurlock already said, but in Hoppe&#039;s book &quot;A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism,&quot; one of the types of socialisms Hoppe analyizes is something he explicitly calls right-wing Socialism.

Ok so vimothy loves the state and thinks it will help protect whatever he likes. However in his invocation of Molbdug, one thing vimothy forgot to mention is that Moldbug points out that such rightist-socialisms never, um, work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Postscript: not that Vimothy needs further refutation beyond what Admin &amp; Hurlock already said, but in Hoppe&#8217;s book &#8220;A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism,&#8221; one of the types of socialisms Hoppe analyizes is something he explicitly calls right-wing Socialism.</p>
<p>Ok so vimothy loves the state and thinks it will help protect whatever he likes. However in his invocation of Molbdug, one thing vimothy forgot to mention is that Moldbug points out that such rightist-socialisms never, um, work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vimothy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s the same genre of argument, isn&#039;t it? 

It&#039;s silly to suggest that Roger Scruton is a socialist, ditto for Patrick Buchanan, and on up the entire right-axis to include Evola, Hitler and whoever else.

What motivates libertarians and more mainstream conservatives in these revisionist attempts to re-position those on their right onto their left is the desire to disavow illiberal and morally other elements within conservative (and ultimately right-wing) discourse. But this is both bad form and playing into the enemy&#039;s hands.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the same genre of argument, isn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>It&#8217;s silly to suggest that Roger Scruton is a socialist, ditto for Patrick Buchanan, and on up the entire right-axis to include Evola, Hitler and whoever else.</p>
<p>What motivates libertarians and more mainstream conservatives in these revisionist attempts to re-position those on their right onto their left is the desire to disavow illiberal and morally other elements within conservative (and ultimately right-wing) discourse. But this is both bad form and playing into the enemy&#8217;s hands.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hurlock</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hurlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hitler was a socialist.

If there is such a things as a right-wing socialist (a lot of reactionaries believe there is) - he was right wing and he was a socialist.
So? I don&#039;t care whether Hitler was a rightist or a leftist. I care that he was a socialist. That is the problem. 

A leftist is always a socialist. Which is why the two words are pretty much synonymous nowadays.
Now a rightist is not always a socialist. But he can be.

I have a problem with socialists period, Hoppe has a problem with socialists as well. He is arguing against socialism in that quote. Doesn&#039;t matter whether it is done by conservatives or progressives. That is his point and that is what you are misunderstanding. This crucial distinction gets a lot of people confused which is why they say libertarians don&#039;t fit on the general left-right axis.
Ironically enough despite your criticism of the NRO guys you are guilty of a similar conceptual mistake.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler was a socialist.</p>
<p>If there is such a things as a right-wing socialist (a lot of reactionaries believe there is) &#8211; he was right wing and he was a socialist.<br />
So? I don&#8217;t care whether Hitler was a rightist or a leftist. I care that he was a socialist. That is the problem. </p>
<p>A leftist is always a socialist. Which is why the two words are pretty much synonymous nowadays.<br />
Now a rightist is not always a socialist. But he can be.</p>
<p>I have a problem with socialists period, Hoppe has a problem with socialists as well. He is arguing against socialism in that quote. Doesn&#8217;t matter whether it is done by conservatives or progressives. That is his point and that is what you are misunderstanding. This crucial distinction gets a lot of people confused which is why they say libertarians don&#8217;t fit on the general left-right axis.<br />
Ironically enough despite your criticism of the NRO guys you are guilty of a similar conceptual mistake.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fascism point is just collateral damage. The distancing is directed at traditionalist conservatives, who make the same error the left always does -- transforming &quot;something must be done!&quot; into an implicit apology for centrally-directed social management.

(Something must be done, and it is being done, and it&#039;s Bitcoin. ENR-style fascist nostalgia is just an idiotic distraction.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fascism point is just collateral damage. The distancing is directed at traditionalist conservatives, who make the same error the left always does &#8212; transforming &#8220;something must be done!&#8221; into an implicit apology for centrally-directed social management.</p>
<p>(Something must be done, and it is being done, and it&#8217;s Bitcoin. ENR-style fascist nostalgia is just an idiotic distraction.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vimothy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-130/#comment-138672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vimothy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4101#comment-138672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Far be it from me to gainsay the value of a bit of provocation, but I think you (and Hoppe) have taken something with an element of truth to it and pushed it so far that it&#039;s gone into the realm of the false and even the silly. What it boils down to, in my view, is this idea that the Nazis were not right-wing at all, but were really leftists about whose political affiliations history has become confused (bar some brave visionaries at NRO). The evidence for the Nazi&#039;s socialist bona fides is supposed to be their intervention in the economy, with the implication being that any such intervention of itself renders a definitive judgement on the matter. Ends or any other factors are irrelevant. The fact that such intervention was undertaken in the service of the glory of the Aryan race or the creation of a Germanic empire (or whatever) means nothing. The Nazi belief in racialism, hierarchy, martial spirit, tragedy, etc, etc, doesn&#039;t matter either. What matters – the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; thing that matters – is that they failed to allow the public total freedom in the marketplace.

Under this idiosyncratic and revisionist political taxonomy, the extreme right, and even the mainstream right, is an almost completely empty location on the map, inhabited only by American libertarians and their self-proclaimed predecessors like Von Hayek and Von Mises. Everyone else is on the left! Charles Maurras: on the left. Roger Scruton: on the left. Ezra Pound: on the left. Franco, Salazar, Hitler: left, left, left.

According to Moldbug (if I remember rightly), pseudo-conservatives at the National Review make these sorts of arguments because they are historically and politically illiterate. That might be true to an extent, but I don&#039;t think it suffices as a total explanation. What you also need to understand is that these people are timid and afraid. They don&#039;t want to be associated, however indirectly, with the dispensation that gave rise to the Nazis and the Holocaust, certainly not in the current media climate. Never mind principles, a person&#039;s career is at risk. Instead of saying, &quot;I don&#039;t give a damn what you think, this is what I believe and it matters; I won&#039;t back down&quot;, our cowardly pseudo-cons try to disavow the 20th Century far right and the philosophies that drove it. &quot;Nothing to do with us mate, not only are we liberals, but we&#039;re actually more liberal than you.&quot; No one is fooled. They can see this for what it is: fear, – fear of being put with the right-wing monsters, fear of being seen as illiberal, fear of being one of &lt;i&gt;them&lt;/i&gt; – which is why conservatives are constantly giving up ground and have basically lost every major battle for half a century or more.

That obviously doesn&#039;t apply to you or to Hoppe, but I do think that trying to distance yourself from fascism in this manner is both a tactical error and lacking in a certain spirit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Far be it from me to gainsay the value of a bit of provocation, but I think you (and Hoppe) have taken something with an element of truth to it and pushed it so far that it&#8217;s gone into the realm of the false and even the silly. What it boils down to, in my view, is this idea that the Nazis were not right-wing at all, but were really leftists about whose political affiliations history has become confused (bar some brave visionaries at NRO). The evidence for the Nazi&#8217;s socialist bona fides is supposed to be their intervention in the economy, with the implication being that any such intervention of itself renders a definitive judgement on the matter. Ends or any other factors are irrelevant. The fact that such intervention was undertaken in the service of the glory of the Aryan race or the creation of a Germanic empire (or whatever) means nothing. The Nazi belief in racialism, hierarchy, martial spirit, tragedy, etc, etc, doesn&#8217;t matter either. What matters – the <i>only</i> thing that matters – is that they failed to allow the public total freedom in the marketplace.</p>
<p>Under this idiosyncratic and revisionist political taxonomy, the extreme right, and even the mainstream right, is an almost completely empty location on the map, inhabited only by American libertarians and their self-proclaimed predecessors like Von Hayek and Von Mises. Everyone else is on the left! Charles Maurras: on the left. Roger Scruton: on the left. Ezra Pound: on the left. Franco, Salazar, Hitler: left, left, left.</p>
<p>According to Moldbug (if I remember rightly), pseudo-conservatives at the National Review make these sorts of arguments because they are historically and politically illiterate. That might be true to an extent, but I don&#8217;t think it suffices as a total explanation. What you also need to understand is that these people are timid and afraid. They don&#8217;t want to be associated, however indirectly, with the dispensation that gave rise to the Nazis and the Holocaust, certainly not in the current media climate. Never mind principles, a person&#8217;s career is at risk. Instead of saying, &#8220;I don&#8217;t give a damn what you think, this is what I believe and it matters; I won&#8217;t back down&#8221;, our cowardly pseudo-cons try to disavow the 20th Century far right and the philosophies that drove it. &#8220;Nothing to do with us mate, not only are we liberals, but we&#8217;re actually more liberal than you.&#8221; No one is fooled. They can see this for what it is: fear, – fear of being put with the right-wing monsters, fear of being seen as illiberal, fear of being one of <i>them</i> – which is why conservatives are constantly giving up ground and have basically lost every major battle for half a century or more.</p>
<p>That obviously doesn&#8217;t apply to you or to Hoppe, but I do think that trying to distance yourself from fascism in this manner is both a tactical error and lacking in a certain spirit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
