<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Quote note (#139)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2015 06:56:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-166226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2015 02:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-166226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That idea of the government not having to care about what its citizens think is one of the things we argue about.  Most of us here don&#039;t seem to think it&#039;s possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That idea of the government not having to care about what its citizens think is one of the things we argue about.  Most of us here don&#8217;t seem to think it&#8217;s possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vypuero</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-166089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vypuero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2015 20:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-166089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought the whole point of NRx is that you do NOT need to control the thoughts of the people who live in your realm, hence there is no need for any kind of enforced religion.  Replacing the current one with a new one won&#039;t make any difference.  If that is the goal, why not just try the whole limited/watchmen government again?  It should last at least a century or two, maybe more.  An owner of the land/kingdom/etc. that can be managed as a business/corporation seems to me to be a good working concept.  No need for a religion, though it could be something specific groups choose to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the whole point of NRx is that you do NOT need to control the thoughts of the people who live in your realm, hence there is no need for any kind of enforced religion.  Replacing the current one with a new one won&#8217;t make any difference.  If that is the goal, why not just try the whole limited/watchmen government again?  It should last at least a century or two, maybe more.  An owner of the land/kingdom/etc. that can be managed as a business/corporation seems to me to be a good working concept.  No need for a religion, though it could be something specific groups choose to do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erebus</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erebus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2015 09:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It can be read in that manner.  Chapter 40, which seems to confuse everybody anyway, becomes even more incomprehensible than usual -- but the rest, by and large, should make just as much sense, if not more intuitive sense than it did before.

In the Tao Te Ching, and more poignantly in the book of Chuang Tsu, death is portrayed as part of the natural cycle; as part of the Tao itself.  However, in the arguably more influential Daozang, death is something that can (and damn well should!) be &lt;i&gt;avoided entirely&lt;/i&gt; if you recite enough scripture and drink the right concoctions.  For this reason, primarily, Taoist adepts are portrayed in popular Chinese culture not as sages but as sorcerers. 

Chinese folk Taoism (&quot;popular Taoism&quot;) -- which is a sort of derivative of a standardized form, with antiquated pop-culture and Confucian influences -- places a very high value on life extension.  In this respect it parallels Transhumanism.  For although the philosophical roots of Transhumanism lie in taking charge of our own evolution and enhancing our physical and intellectual capabilities, we can see how it has &lt;i&gt;developed as a movement&lt;/i&gt;...  From those lofty and ennobling goals to a cryonics obsession and an almost single-minded focus on life extension.  

Having said that, our future will eventually be a transhuman/posthuman one.  And the only established spiritual/religious tradition that&#039;s fully compatible with this future is Taoism.  It may be possible for each of those two movements to bring out the best in the other.  Spirituality on the one hand, and intellectual and physical ascendancy on the other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can be read in that manner.  Chapter 40, which seems to confuse everybody anyway, becomes even more incomprehensible than usual &#8212; but the rest, by and large, should make just as much sense, if not more intuitive sense than it did before.</p>
<p>In the Tao Te Ching, and more poignantly in the book of Chuang Tsu, death is portrayed as part of the natural cycle; as part of the Tao itself.  However, in the arguably more influential Daozang, death is something that can (and damn well should!) be <i>avoided entirely</i> if you recite enough scripture and drink the right concoctions.  For this reason, primarily, Taoist adepts are portrayed in popular Chinese culture not as sages but as sorcerers. </p>
<p>Chinese folk Taoism (&#8220;popular Taoism&#8221;) &#8212; which is a sort of derivative of a standardized form, with antiquated pop-culture and Confucian influences &#8212; places a very high value on life extension.  In this respect it parallels Transhumanism.  For although the philosophical roots of Transhumanism lie in taking charge of our own evolution and enhancing our physical and intellectual capabilities, we can see how it has <i>developed as a movement</i>&#8230;  From those lofty and ennobling goals to a cryonics obsession and an almost single-minded focus on life extension.  </p>
<p>Having said that, our future will eventually be a transhuman/posthuman one.  And the only established spiritual/religious tradition that&#8217;s fully compatible with this future is Taoism.  It may be possible for each of those two movements to bring out the best in the other.  Spirituality on the one hand, and intellectual and physical ascendancy on the other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Baron Ludwig von Nichts</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baron Ludwig von Nichts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 22:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;How do I get from the Elder Gods to persuading my daughter to follow the Elder Virtues?&lt;/i&gt;

You don&#039;t, obviously, &#039;cuz Azathoth doesn&#039;t care about such things. Shipwrecked? Yes we are, on a tiny mote called Earth, adrift on black seas of infinity, and there&#039;s no rescue ship coming. Hahahahahahaha. Azathoth akbar!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How do I get from the Elder Gods to persuading my daughter to follow the Elder Virtues?</i></p>
<p>You don&#8217;t, obviously, &#8216;cuz Azathoth doesn&#8217;t care about such things. Shipwrecked? Yes we are, on a tiny mote called Earth, adrift on black seas of infinity, and there&#8217;s no rescue ship coming. Hahahahahahaha. Azathoth akbar!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aeroguy</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aeroguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 19:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll have to reread the tao te ching with gnon=tao in mind.  However I view immortality the same as equality, a pleasant idea that when applied in reality is anything but.  I hate transhumanists motivated by immortality as much as equality pushing liberals.  Death is important, death is inescapable, without death there is only lifeless stagnation.  There can be no change without death.  Yin and yang, life and death, one can&#039;t exist without the other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to reread the tao te ching with gnon=tao in mind.  However I view immortality the same as equality, a pleasant idea that when applied in reality is anything but.  I hate transhumanists motivated by immortality as much as equality pushing liberals.  Death is important, death is inescapable, without death there is only lifeless stagnation.  There can be no change without death.  Yin and yang, life and death, one can&#8217;t exist without the other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: R.</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164241</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 18:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This?

http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/Religion/daodejing.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/Religion/daodejing.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/Religion/daodejing.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 17:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anybody here know what John Derbyshire&#039;s beef with Taoism is?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody here know what John Derbyshire&#8217;s beef with Taoism is?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 14:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you missed the forethought its not the philosophy per se its the philosophy that doesn&#039;t recognize the reality. The commies are right there is no point to existence so any synthesized philosophy to justify you empire is susceptible to deconstruction its not that im not just as emotionally attached to the historical myths of western civilization just that i know they wont withstand leftist assault - because they haven&#039;t.they might be temporarily useful to foment a counter revolution or not but long term the same thing will happen, most of what DENRX  fantasizes about actually exist a few hundred years ago and it was overrun.its really the same conclusion Theil comes to regarding libertarianism which for most intents and purposes also existed back then. what we like about free markets and evolution is all thats really true but to base a philosophy or a civilization on it is really hard because its a meat grinder. Can Europeans dance upon a meat grinder another thousand years not carrying the white mans burden not while trying to preserve christianity and the rest only by understanding that all there is is the grinder and the dancersure we can take pride in our past but we can not let it drag us down. I really do not see how christianity has any place in a rationalist movement. and thats what we must be its all there is]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you missed the forethought its not the philosophy per se its the philosophy that doesn&#8217;t recognize the reality. The commies are right there is no point to existence so any synthesized philosophy to justify you empire is susceptible to deconstruction its not that im not just as emotionally attached to the historical myths of western civilization just that i know they wont withstand leftist assault &#8211; because they haven&#8217;t.they might be temporarily useful to foment a counter revolution or not but long term the same thing will happen, most of what DENRX  fantasizes about actually exist a few hundred years ago and it was overrun.its really the same conclusion Theil comes to regarding libertarianism which for most intents and purposes also existed back then. what we like about free markets and evolution is all thats really true but to base a philosophy or a civilization on it is really hard because its a meat grinder. Can Europeans dance upon a meat grinder another thousand years not carrying the white mans burden not while trying to preserve christianity and the rest only by understanding that all there is is the grinder and the dancersure we can take pride in our past but we can not let it drag us down. I really do not see how christianity has any place in a rationalist movement. and thats what we must be its all there is</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 10:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(Just in case my silent assent isn&#039;t obvious, I&#039;ll tack this on.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Just in case my silent assent isn&#8217;t obvious, I&#8217;ll tack this on.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erebus</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-note-139/#comment-164053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erebus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2015 08:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=4384#comment-164053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I mentioned Transhumanism above.  It seems to me that Taoism may be compatible with both NRx and Transhumanist thought.

&quot;In the Confucian analects, we are told that Confucius, while traveling from state to state, met many men whom he called &lt;i&gt;yin che&lt;/i&gt;, &quot;those who obscure themselves,&quot; and described them as persons who had &quot;escaped from the world.&quot;  (XIV, 39)  These recluses ridiculed Confucius for what they described as his vain efforts to save the world.  By one of them he was described as &#039;the one who knows he cannot succeed, yet keeps trying to do so.&#039;&quot;
-History of Chinese Philosophy, by Fung Yu-Lan


Lao Tzu advocated the rule of sages, effectively Philosopher-Kings, with the understanding that their rule would necessarily be, in practical terms, an extremely liberal one.  &quot;The more restrictions and prohibitions there are in the world, the poorer the people will be... the more laws are promulgated, the more thieves and bandits there shall be.&quot;  (Tao Te Ching. Chapter 57.)  &quot;Tao abides in non-action, yet nothing is left undone.  If kings and lords observed this, the ten thousand things would develop naturally.&quot;  (Chapter 37.)

He also said:  &quot;The world can be conquered by non-action; by action one cannot conquer the world.&quot; (Chapter 48.)  

What Taoists call &quot;the Tao&quot; is &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; what we call Gnon.  It is the primordial essence of reality, the arrow of time and the tendency of things towards entropy, a representation of the whole of natural law.  Taoists aim to comprehend it and live in harmony with it... inasmuch as possible.    

Also of note is the fact that Taoism&#039;s most popular interpretation stresses that immortality can be attained in this physical world.  Therefore, its most devoted adherents have been, by and large, &lt;i&gt;obsessed&lt;/i&gt; with becoming immortals.  &quot;Taoist Alchemy&quot; was one method.  Science may soon devise more certain methods.  Taoists and Transhumanists should therefore share many common goals.  

(Ironically, the first Emperor of China, Qin Shi Huang, died after ingesting a mercury-based &quot;elixir of immortality.&quot;  His far-ranging quest for this sort of elixir may have lead to an &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Fu&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;influx of Chinese&lt;/a&gt; adventurers into Japan around 210BC -- which may have either initiated or invigorated the Proto-Japanese Yayoi culture.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentioned Transhumanism above.  It seems to me that Taoism may be compatible with both NRx and Transhumanist thought.</p>
<p>&#8220;In the Confucian analects, we are told that Confucius, while traveling from state to state, met many men whom he called <i>yin che</i>, &#8220;those who obscure themselves,&#8221; and described them as persons who had &#8220;escaped from the world.&#8221;  (XIV, 39)  These recluses ridiculed Confucius for what they described as his vain efforts to save the world.  By one of them he was described as &#8216;the one who knows he cannot succeed, yet keeps trying to do so.'&#8221;<br />
-History of Chinese Philosophy, by Fung Yu-Lan</p>
<p>Lao Tzu advocated the rule of sages, effectively Philosopher-Kings, with the understanding that their rule would necessarily be, in practical terms, an extremely liberal one.  &#8220;The more restrictions and prohibitions there are in the world, the poorer the people will be&#8230; the more laws are promulgated, the more thieves and bandits there shall be.&#8221;  (Tao Te Ching. Chapter 57.)  &#8220;Tao abides in non-action, yet nothing is left undone.  If kings and lords observed this, the ten thousand things would develop naturally.&#8221;  (Chapter 37.)</p>
<p>He also said:  &#8220;The world can be conquered by non-action; by action one cannot conquer the world.&#8221; (Chapter 48.)  </p>
<p>What Taoists call &#8220;the Tao&#8221; is <i>exactly</i> what we call Gnon.  It is the primordial essence of reality, the arrow of time and the tendency of things towards entropy, a representation of the whole of natural law.  Taoists aim to comprehend it and live in harmony with it&#8230; inasmuch as possible.    </p>
<p>Also of note is the fact that Taoism&#8217;s most popular interpretation stresses that immortality can be attained in this physical world.  Therefore, its most devoted adherents have been, by and large, <i>obsessed</i> with becoming immortals.  &#8220;Taoist Alchemy&#8221; was one method.  Science may soon devise more certain methods.  Taoists and Transhumanists should therefore share many common goals.  </p>
<p>(Ironically, the first Emperor of China, Qin Shi Huang, died after ingesting a mercury-based &#8220;elixir of immortality.&#8221;  His far-ranging quest for this sort of elixir may have lead to an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Fu" rel="nofollow">influx of Chinese</a> adventurers into Japan around 210BC &#8212; which may have either initiated or invigorated the Proto-Japanese Yayoi culture.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
