Quote note (#155)

The diagnosis is the easy part:

A fundamental question has troubled European unification since the Treaty of Rome in 1957, writes Thornton: “What comprises the collective beliefs of and values that can form the foundations of a genuine European-wide community? What is it that all Europeans believe?

“Europe and its nations were forged in the matrix of ideas, ideals, and beliefs of Christianity, which gives divine sanction to notions like human rights, the sanctity of the individual, political freedom and equality. Today across Europe Christian belief is a shadow of its former self.

“Fewer and fewer Europeans regularly go to Church. … It is common for many European cathedrals to have more tourists during a service than parishioners. … This process of secularization — already well advanced in 1887 when Nietzsche famously said, ‘God is no more than a faded word today, not even a concept’ — is nearly complete today, leaving Europe without its historical principle of unity.”

March 14, 2015admin 27 Comments »


27 Responses to this entry

  • Orthodox Laissez-fairist Says:

    World today has become such that you have little to grieve for if planet becomes radioactive wasteland. It’s quite possible that such scenario may, in fact, be an improvement from certain perspective.


    Posted on March 14th, 2015 at 11:27 am Reply | Quote
  • Amon Khan Says:

    The European Union was always doomed because spiritually it is an empty shell, built on ruins; there was no vision or principle that could inspire the population to support it the way Rome, Christianity and the Third Reich could. No one is going to fight for the beigeist liberals in Brussels when the chips are down — and the chips are definitely going down.

    Meanwhile, in radical contrast to Europe’s empty suit leaders, it’s clear that the Islamists do have such a vision and unifying principle, and leaders with the foresight and strength of will to carry it out. Read this article from 2005 to see how closely they are following al Qaeda’s 20 year “master plan”, despite being derided by Der Spiegel as ridiculous and unworkable:


    If only Europe had leaders half as visionary and inspiring to youth as al Qaeda and Islamic State! It’s hardly surprising that so many Euros are submitting to Islam, given the utterly wretched state of Western civilization. How did a proud and profoundly religious civilization turn into a barren, postmodern wasteland? Where are the visionaries, knights, warriors and new men of Europe? Did the future of European man die in 1945? Where did Euros get this insane idea that a culture of total nihilism, weakness, and surrender is going to survive?

    Europe seems caught between the hammer of Islam and the anvil of Amerikan racial and cultural entropy, without an inspiring idea of its own. Is Islam truly Europe’s future, or can something still be awakened in the souls of European man at this very late hour? Should they turn toward Russia, as the last bastion of Western civilization? Is Europe today in a similar position as Rome in 400, or can they still save themselves before the lights go out?


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    Russia is a beacon of light. Hungary has become one two, based on a recent speech by their Prime Minister. Glimmers of light can be seen in the FN, PEGIDA and NRx. The important thing for US geopolitical power to evaporate. The EU is essentially just USG’s puppet state. If some kind of turning point can be reached and Russian geopolitical power becomes greater than the American in Europe, we could see a real European resurgence, with help from smaller loose-cannon allies like Hungary and Greece, as well as angry indigenous minorities Europe over.

    Everything is still in its infancy, but the rumblings of a Great Turning are here. NRx is essentially the Atlanticist Cathedral turning on itself. Russia is flouting Obama’s Empire. Ditto Hungary. Europeans, despite constant doom-saying, are “waking up.” Supposing the trends hold, there will be an upset.


    Hurlock Reply:

    I am continuously amazed at this undying optimism for Russia. Can someone explain it to me? Russia is in a pretty tough spot right now geopolitically and especially economically. It has made some gains recently because Germany has too much economic ties with Russia and with a pretty badly performing EU economy in the aggregate, it might not be a good idea to gut one of its largest trade partners. But that doesn’t mean that Russia is suddenly going to become this great empire which will push the U.S. back. It is Russia that has been pushed back recently, that’s what this whole Ukraine crisis is about. Russia was pushed to the wall, as Ukraine was being snatched away from its sphere of influence, so it brought out the big guns and took Crimea. And not its economy is mostly fucked for the foreseeable future, thanks to the sanctions+oil price drop. Admittedly it will gain some breathing room if the oil price goes back up, but in order to have significant improvement oil has to go above 100$ and I don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future.

    And the EU is not that much of a puppet state as demonstrated by the recent diplomatic initiatives taken by France and Germany vis-a-vis Russia. It still is to a large degree, but not to the point of complete lack of agency.

    Anyways, I really don’t see any significant political gains made by Russia any time soon. Presently Putin is fighting for survival. Right now ‘winning’ means surviving and keeping eastern Ukraine. And even if he manages to pull it off that is still a long shot from gaining serious geopolitical influence further west. It is merely keeping what he already more or less had before the whole Ukraine debacle began.

    I am not that familiar with Hungary, I find some of Urban’s policies pretty smart and others quite retarded, but I don’t follow him that closely. But Greece? You hope Greece will be of any significance? How exactly in the blue hell do you see that happening?
    (1) Greece is run by socialists right now.
    (2) Said socialists are busy sucking German cock right now despite all the pre-election tough talk.
    (3) There is no way Greece get’s help from outside right now because as already mentioned Russia has enough problems. And without outside help Greece will just have to keep sucking German cock, thus remaining the irrelevant socialist nutcase living off EU grants that it always has been. Hell, I am more worried about the EU wasting too much money on Greece. At any rate, this country is not going to be much relevant in any way in future history, I am sorry guys, but Antiquity was a long time ago.

    So, this optimism about Russia and even Greece…what gives?


    Kgaard Reply:

    Yeah I agree here … there is no reason for optimism over Russia. The notion that Russia holds some sort of answer for the future of Europe really makes no sense.

    For one thing, Europeans aren’t Russians. It’s quite obvious there is a drastic DNA and culture split between east and west. And Europeans themselves are hyper-conscious of it.

    I think if there is reason for optimism around Europe it involves some sort of coalescing around a new Euro-centric spiritual form: Basically a gradual cohering of New Age insights which, taken together, form a coherent whole. It is post-Christian but keeping the best insights of Christianity and Western Europe. Intellectually it may be strong enough to resist violent elements of Islam on the simple grounds that those violent elements will be so radically opposed to the New Age vision.

    So what you might see is soccer moms in the street calling for serious fighting against radical Imams. The same shaming that now goes toward misguided targets could easily be re-directed. That is what is driving a big part of the support for Marine Le Pen.

    Erik Reply:

    Short version: Liberals are making all the right complaints against Russia.

    Russia appears to have a resurgent Christianity and an increasing fertility rate. It locked up Pussy Riot, and it locked up various other demonstrators. Putin grabbed Crimea, then distracted everyone with “look, a squirrel in Ukraine” when people wanted it back, also talked Obama out of bombing ally Assad. Economically, Russia made the EU flinch over gas, has a good partnership going with China, and it’s mostly America which flails about trying to dooooo something like token sanctions on Russia.

    Putin really doesn’t seem to be fighting for survival to me.

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    The real secret of Pandora’s box is that everything in it was a curse. Everything.


    Kevin C. Reply:

    “…hope: it is in truth the worst of all evils, because it protracts the torment of men.”

    Friedrich Nietzsche, “Human, All Too Human”

    Posted on March 14th, 2015 at 1:48 pm Reply | Quote
  • Quote note (#155) | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on March 14th, 2015 at 3:17 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    God, Sword, Blood and Soil.

    Oh I know what happened last time.

    But it doesn’t matter this time.

    We’ll have to do the same thing if we want to make it.

    People ask how does Al-Qaeda do it? Well…they believe in something enough to kill for it, die for it.

    So imitate success.


    forkinhell Reply:

    Do you ever get tired of your own voice/spiel? I ask as a sympathetic but amused onlooker. Virgin-infested holes and caves in the desert is not the success we’re looking for. Ideological descent into archetypal insanity even less so (n.b. time preference).


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Well whoever that was directed at Dear [Sir?] Fork, we have the other success now. Is this what you were looking for? Certainly we have all found something.

    As far as time preference… when you believe in Eternal Life and depending on your actions in this world determining your Eternal Fate…


    forkinhell Reply:

    Oh, I certainly believe there are beserker forces that can make people (powerfully) beserk. My point was you can combat that and either lose or become that which you oppose, or you can retain and use your smarts to sidestep (having perhaps drawn) the tackle.

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Yes in theory you can sidestep using your smarts, for awhile it may work given sufficient resources of distance, money and power all of which in our case [assuming you are Western] were inherited. Until the inheritance is squandered as is ours.

    The inheritance being squandered and being clever having run out its string you will then either prevail or die.

    We haven’t been using our smarts at all, we’ve just had a huge cushion of inheritance to squander and so we have. The inheritance being gained by of course….God Fearing, pray on knees Blood and Soil, God and Gold, Sword and Cross types.

    Really it’s not being Clever, it’s just being Silly to deny we’ve quite squandered our inheritance, or to deny that the formula expressed works.

    As far as sidestepping and drawing the tackle, our clever sillies have run out of people to double cross.


    Posted on March 14th, 2015 at 9:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • Handle Says:

    My apologies, as this comment is not related to the opening post, but I have a puzzle and I’d like to see how folks around these parts answer it.

    Since the beginning of the Global Financial Crisis over 7 years ago, many folks have been fretting over money-printing, hyperinflation, and fiscal collapse for the US, as well as making extremely optimistic and confident forecasts for the future trajectories for the price of gold and bitcoins.

    But, at the same time, folks around these parts tend to go along with at least the weak version of the EMH, and trust that one can’t do much better than look at financial markets for the best information available on expectations for future outcomes.

    Ok, so lets take a look at what’s been going on lately. The gold price has been sliding in nominal terms for nearly four years (longer in inflation-adjusted terms), from a peak of around $1,850 to now nearly $1,150. Bitcoin, which the hype indicates should be going hyperbolic, has dropped from $1,150 to under $300 in little more than a year.

    Meanwhile, the US Dollar has made significant gains – at least 10% – against a whole variety of foreign currencies in the past year, even in prosperous and well-managed places, and to include the Euro (now near parity), the Pound, the Yen, and the other Anglosphere currencies.

    The oil price is subject to Saudi manipulations, but still, I would guess that many people would not have thought that with a tiny goose of extra supply it could have declined as much as it did, without huge amounts of ‘pent up demand’ showing up to prop up the price.

    Meanwhile inflation is hardly going hyper. Debating ‘correct’ inflation metrics is pointless because impossible, but I keep very detailed and meticulous records of all my bills going back a long way, and I haven’t had to adjust my lifestyle with an income that keeps pace with the CPI index, and indeed my nominal expenditures seem to hew pretty close to the official rate.

    The broader question is what went wrong with the models that gave rise to the former incorrect claims, and how do we all do a Bayesian Updating of our models for future expectations based on this corrective information?


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    Let a traditionalist ask you: is the market smart/perceptive enough to react to a slow, decades-long decay of Western civilization as the original producers get replaced by Muslims and Mexicans?


    R. Reply:

    Do they, now?

    Don’t do the ‘Glenn Beck’ school of population maths. It’s not really honest.
    Legal immigration is getting quite restricted. No one wants it, really.

    Also.. original producers? You do realize automation is soon going to make people pretty much obsolete? Especially the ones with average smarts. Meanwhile machine power is going to benefit the ones canny enough to be able to direct it.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Maybe the Central Banks are right, maybe it works.

    I heard Summers say “unlimited” potential at Davos in regards to Euro QE, perhaps they’re right.


    Hurlock Reply:

    An important thing to remember about gold price is that it most certainly is being manipulated by central banks, this is not such a hard thing to do and a lot of people have noticed some clear signs of it going on. And even with all the manipulation it is still very much above the level at which it was before the 2008/2009 crisis, so I am not worried about gold in the slightest. Might as well take the opportunity and buy some, especially if it happens to fall below 1000$.

    As for the dollar making gains, there’s this thing that has been going on in recent years, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, they call it the “US shale oil boom”. It has boosted US oil production to record historical levels – I would be surprised if this didn’t significantly boost the U.S. dollar. Hell, I would be REALLY worried about the U.S. economy if it didn’t significantly boost it. And it did boost it. Hence, your wallet not being invisibly robbed (that much) in recent years.
    Now, it is interesting how the massive drop in price will influence the U.S. shale industry in the long term. Only several months have passed since the huge drop and a lot of oil rigs are shutting down here and there so it remains to be seen how long will the honeymoon continue to last.
    But even so I feel you are overrating the gains of the dollar against other currencies. It has made gains against which currencies? The russian ruble? Obvious reasons, have more to do with Russian being fucked in the ass economically by the “international community” than any domestic economic strength of the U.S.
    The euro? Well, they don’t really do shale in Europe. Plus, the PIIGS are not just pigs, they are utter swines, economically speaking. Also, Draghi just started QE and the most significant gains of the dollar vs the euro happened in recent months during the debate around QE. It was obvious that it was coming, hence everyone started short selling.
    Hmm what else? It hasn’t made any noticeable gains against the swiss franc.
    It has made gains against Japan’s yen, but this is to be expected with the whole Abenomics bullshit going on there (btw, predicted by those people you claim have to “update” their models).
    But wait what about China’s yuan? Well, the dollar has been consistently falling against it for decades and has only made some small gains in the past year or so. And they don’t even put it at the level it was in 2012.
    So, I’d say the “significant” gains are at least slightly overstated. Yes there are some, but let’s not overreact, they are not *that* significant. The US dollar is still significantly lower, against pretty much everything which hasn’t been pumping QE, than it was before the 2008 crisis.

    About predictions: When predictions are made on these topic, they are always made with incomplete knowledge because the necessary knowledge is (1) very carefully obscured by governments and (2) you can’t have absolutely complete knowledge. So, you make some qualitative predictions based on what you know and observe at the moment, but you cannot predict the future. These are always “ceteris paribus” predictions. And things don’t always go as you expect them, e.g. a shale oil boom happens and suddenly the petrodollar is not shit again and wtf oil prices drop to their lowest in more than a decade.


    vimothy Reply:

    The broader question is what went wrong with the models that gave rise to the former incorrect claims, and how do we all do a Bayesian Updating of our models for future expectations based on this corrective information?

    Good question. The answer to the latter part, unfortunately, is that almost no one is interested in updating their models. Instead they are working backwards from a “politically-correct” conclusion (relative to their ideological orientation) through whatever seems to be the most direct route to where we are now. If the conclusion seems as far as way as ever, that just means a more circuitous route is needed, with a more extensive set of rationalisations for the diversion.


    admin Reply:

    It’s obviously extremely complicated — but a key thread to tug on is the argument that ZIRP is deflationary (because it funds ‘excess’ capacity and thus crushes business pricing power), which means that a money printing + suppressed interest rate equilibrium has been discovered, and it’s where we all are. For market-oriented hard money types, this is clearly a horrible thing — a cybernetic twinning of complementary economic pathologies that, for some significant time at least, cancel out the manifestation of each other.

    So why aren’t people fleeing into gold and bitcoins? Whatever the subtleties there, the basic concession has to be: the world’s dominant monetary authorities retain public confidence. That’s ultimately an ideo-political question, and given the grip that the modern state has over money and economic perception, that’s the level at which the dam has to break. Perhaps the macroeconomic state is going to win — but that would mean progressivism is correct (and we should all go home). We can’t concede the financial principle in its essentials without comprehensive surrender.

    I’m still quite sure that we’re seeing accelerating economic apocalypse accumulation. Clearly, without putting a date on the catastrophe horizon, that isn’t going to convince anybody who isn’t seeing the same thing — but right now any date would just be pulled out of the ether at random, and given the entirely unprecedented territory we have entered, I suspect that holds for even the most knowledgeable, technically adept, and insightful pundit. A vast socio-economic experiment is taking place, demonstrating exponential trends into the unknown, which scarcely counts as evidence that everything is going OK.


    northanger Reply:

    don’t tug on superFed’s cape


    Posted on March 15th, 2015 at 12:08 am Reply | Quote
  • northanger Says:

    The end of white Christian America is nigh: Why the country’s youth are abandoning religious conservatism

    The irony is that this panic-based overreach is just making the situation worse for the Christian right. One of the biggest reasons the secularization trend has accelerated in recent years is that young people see the victim complex and the sex policing of the Christian right and it’s turning them off. And they’re not just rejecting conservative Christianity but the entire idea of organized religion altogether. In other words, the past few years have created a self-perpetuating cycle…


    Orthodox Laissez-fairist Reply:

    There’s a saying that future belongs to the youth. What future? Future youth is probably gonna end up dying from heroin overdoses and STDs.


    northanger Reply:


    Gonna sneeze some dust that you got bust on
    accelerating economic apocalypse accumulation
    Because we’re all written down on the same list


    Posted on March 15th, 2015 at 2:06 pm Reply | Quote
  • blogospheroid Says:

    There are 2 potential hopes for the future of atlanticism.

    1. Go full transhumanist. Transhumanism offers direction and purpose in a way that secular humanism really does not on a day to day basis. When people seriously start thinking about the creation of institutions that are needed to guard their cryogenically frozen heads for a 200 or 500 years, they will think VERY differently when compared to today’s set.

    2. Australia – Australia has many things that make it a lesser darling of the cathedral. They have openly elitist immigration policies. Their envrionmental policies are more generous than those of US and EU. They have experienced concerns with muslim immigration. They are more isolated than the rest of the atlantic powers. They have a chance.


    Posted on March 15th, 2015 at 4:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • La Fayette Says:

    All your thoughts about Russia are, at best, strange.

    Think not about “new hope” and other bullshit, but look at Latin America. Venezuela, to be more sure. Or Syria, with imported elites were using Islam to rule local arabs (it didn’t work in the end :)). Tomorrow Kremlin could change the ways (to combat Russian nationalism, which is Putin’s main enemy) and the same governement trolls will fill Net with textes and images about evvvviiiilll Russian Nazis.

    As a loose cannon, Kremlin maybe of use for European Right. As a “man, who will come and save us” – not. Pray for him NOT to come. You’ll love the Brussel after that 🙂

    P.S.: White on black sucks.


    Posted on March 20th, 2015 at 8:46 pm Reply | Quote

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