Quote note (#208)

At Vox (some Yule cheer):

Political scientists have long known that “government legitimacy,” or the popularity of particular administrations, is going down. But many of them have argued that “regime legitimacy,” or citizens’ attachment to democracy as a political system, is as strong as ever. Our research shows that this is just not true: Attachment to democracy has fallen over time, and from one generation to the next. … For Americans born in the 1930s, living in a democracy holds virtually sacred importance. Asked on a scale of 1 to 10 how important it is to them to live in a democracy, more than 70 percent give the highest answer. But many of their children and grandchildren are lukewarm. Among millennials — those born since the 1980s — fewer than 30 percent say that living in a democracy is essential.

ADDED: Let’s change the subject — “Perhaps the time has come for us all to ask how much we really value democracy, and to start discussing how much more expressive and responsive it could be in this technological age. Change is coming. The big question now is how good we are going to be at shaping the sorts of change that can renew democracy instead of stunting and blunting it.” The faster ruin is brought to the only societies on Earth with some prospect of supporting democracy, the more of these kind of diversionary conversations we can expect.

December 21, 2015admin 27 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Democracy


27 Responses to this entry

  • Yvjrolu Says:

    Checkmate, demotists.


    Grotesque Body Reply:

    “The majority of people no longer believe in demotism. Hooray, we have conquered demotism!”


    John Hannon Reply:

    “Among those born since 1980, fewer than 30 percent say that living in a democracy is essential.”

    Does this mean that America is beginning to – as Moldbug puts it – get over its “dictator phobia’?


    Posted on December 21st, 2015 at 10:29 pm Reply | Quote
  • Quote note (#208) | Neoreactive Says:

    […] By admin […]

    Posted on December 21st, 2015 at 10:30 pm Reply | Quote
  • futuremurder Says:

    It is incredibly likely that this is the outcome of the “tolerance” drilled into millennials and their fear of offending.


    Posted on December 21st, 2015 at 11:10 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kwisatz Haderach Says:

    Out of the squalor and desperation of millenial life, a cohort of BAMFs are rising. They make the 68er’s look like the clowns that they are.


    Posted on December 21st, 2015 at 11:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotesque Body Says:

    Political “scientists”

    Political “science”

    Social “scientists”

    Social “science”

    The quotation marks should be obligatory.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 12:17 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    It really doesn’t matter what system the current crop of elites are manipulating procedural outcomes in…they’re toxic and we’re always going to poison whatever they touched. Look what they’ve done to capitalism.

    cue Admin: True Capitalism? Why it’s never been tried…. 😉

    Social Matter had a great post this week discussing the difference between Human Values [Reactionary] and Scientific or Literalist systems.

    Yet here is NRxn blaming Democracy – after it’s been almost dead for decades and is certainly dead now.

    Simply repeating the errors of Protestants and Progressives through the ages…there is no systems approach to our very human problems. We have to get rid of the government we’ve got because of the people in it are insane and evil. It’s true that Progress had a hand in their molding but certainly the winners of Cathedral rule are attracted to it?

    Who do you think molded most NRxn?

    Right wing Progressive mindsets are different but they’re already on the same wrong path.

    “Such a system must at all times be directed against human judgment as a threat to itself”

    You too see Human Judgment as a threat. Hence all this AI and Basilisk nonsense.

    – See more at: http://www.socialmatter.net/2015/12/18/reading-de-jouvenel/#sthash.9jBrHSmD.dpuf


    Alrenous Reply:

    cue Admin: True Capitalism? Why it’s never been tried

    The closer Communism is approximated, the more die untimely.
    The closer Capitalism is approximated, the richer and healthier everyone gets.
    Communism is the apotheosis of irresponsibility. Capitalism is about internalizing all externalities. Hence, this sliding scale is not surprising.

    Yet here is NRxn blaming Democracy – after it’s been almost dead for decades and is certainly dead now.

    NRx has long said that the mechanisms of democracy are dead, leaving only a veneer. Now the veneer is peeling. While encouraging, Vox’s metrics overstate the change. They still only dimly glimpse that what they’re looking at is a veneer. Once they grasp that, we might see a Puritan revival – True Democracy, Transparency, and other batshit impossible fantasies, pursued as Serious, Hardheaded, Grownup opinion/activism. If so, we’ll have to go through another couple cycles of this nonsense before they figure out that the veneer was actually a best-case scenario, given demotism.


    vxxc2014 Reply:


    I think you may have missed my main points about Human Judgment frailty and all over systems.

    You will admit you think it’s the system that’s the problem…yes?

    That we need a different “system”?

    What system do we put Bill and Hillary into where they stop doing Harm Sir?

    I’m contending we don’t have a systems problem we have a personnel problem.

    That we could put this current crop of elites and their educated Ivy League administrative gentry into any system and we’re going to get HARM – because they mean Harm.

    That was the point of the joke about Capitalism.

    We live now. We have problems now. We have vile and evil harmful people in power now and they must be removed. Not a changing of the system.

    They’ve quite proven that they’ll do harm and poison any system they touch.

    That we as men have duties to perform and they’ll not be accomplished by systems change or ‘reorg’ as we say in Corporate America.

    Our argument isn’t over what system is better or best, our point of contention here Sir is that I’m arguing it’s these people and not any particular system.

    You are arguing that it’s the system that produced these people – yes?

    “A couple of cycles more of this nonsense…” And then what? We change the software and stop hogging the processor/CPU with the bad demotist software?

    You do realize the Boomers began as anarchists and communists and have run the gamut from there to Financial Capitalism Red in tooth and claw? That the Clinton’s were for instance quite happy with Communism in their early careers and then segued without missing a breath into 90s free-wheeling Capitalism as organized Crime?

    What system do we put Bill and Hillary into where they stop doing Harm Sir?


    frank Reply:

    The system is producing these kind of people en masse and your solution is to replace these people and keep the system? Good luck with that.

    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 12:23 am Reply | Quote
  • John Says:

    Not sure if this is cause for optimism, or indicative that groundwork has been firmly laid for totalitarian communist globo-state.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 1:08 am Reply | Quote
  • Quote note (#208) | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 3:17 am Reply | Quote
  • Puzzle Privateer (@PuzzlePrivateer) Says:


    I could say “VXXC: True Democracy? Why it’s never been tried….” But I won’t.

    In all seriousness, Social Matter’s recent posts on the Männerbund I think points in the direction of the rebuilding of human ties we need. To escape the current anti-human (is that the right term?) systems we now have in place will take more than just a bunch of groups of best-bros. I assume it will take something large, cohesive, organized, disciplined, with effective & inspiring leaders. This certainly is not a description of democracy, seems more like a description of a military or a religion. Maybe this would take the form of some flavor of a resurgent Christianity (but I wouldn’t bet on it), a Western Mohammed (even worse odds), or something that spawns out of White Nationalism (seems a likely contender right now).

    If it is some new spawn of White Nationalism, GNON help us considering how that went down last time. But “you go to war with the army you have” as they say. Maybe a Darkly Enlightened politician that comes after Trump could get in front of a White Nationalist movement and direct it to better ends? Nazi window dressing with monarchy & aristocracy underneath?

    Now I really am grasping at straws. Bed-time for me.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    We fight with the Army we have Sir and to answer your question about front-running optimization for DE/NRx tweaking….having been on large offensives and small offensives and in the middle….NO. Nor on defense – and it will happen.

    No. NO. If they’re moving one moves with them and doesn’t break momentum to optimize.

    Fucking MOVE. GO FORWARD. Find a productive role and FUCKING MOVE SOLIDER. If you’re not a solider during conflict you should you know learn…Fast..to be one.

    Failing finding a productive role fall in with a group that’s moving somewhere…ANYWHERE with some sense of purpose. Then ask where we’re going once you’re in…quite serious.

    I did this and so does anyone who wants to go anywhere or do anything. You need other people. BTW I did it again the other day at some admin bullshit annual training for sex ed, pc, records check etc. Once a year we have to do this…some is necessary [wills, physicals] some is not. I went for a walk/bathroom break during a lull and when I came out I spotted a few from my platoon moving somewhere with some unknown purpose. I fell in and walked with them for a bit before asking a Sergeant where we were going. He answered then laughed a moment later with “__name__- you’re a Troop alright. First follow then ask.” He’s right. {== move towards the action. Never mind what.

    Failing that move to the sound of the guns and fall in with the others esp any group doing the same thing – moving to the sound of the guns aka action. Same principles on defense – find some people who are organizing to stop running and stand. They have much better chances BTW.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 6:22 am Reply | Quote
  • grey enlightenment Says:


    Yet here is NRxn blaming Democracy – after it’s been almost dead for decades and is certainly dead now.

    maybe we’re closer toe ‘dark enlightenment’ than originally thought


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    We’re closer to something than we think because you see….we’re already in it.

    It’s already begun.

    Shooting cops as DOJ Civil Rights Division adjunct to lawsuits and investigations sealed that fate and of course we also have open borders and terrorist safaris with us as the game animals.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 8:06 am Reply | Quote
  • SVErshov Says:

    blockchains can be used for elections, land registery, tracking of gov performance, combined with SD, for policy verification. from tech side democracy can get some refurbishments.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 1:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • Frog Do Says:

    Not Yule cheer. This is a Puritan fire-and-brimstone sermon, with the modern Unitarian federalism draining all the emotion out of it. This is the justification for the next war, and a sign that it is coming.

    They see you when you’re sleeping. They know that’s you’re awake.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Is your arm broken?

    Next war already started and all their fighting is being done by proxies.

    And a sad sack of loser proxies they are.

    They sleep too.

    You’re awake now.

    What’s your problem making them afraid to sleep?

    The next war already started. Take a hand in your own fate and anyone or anything you love. Bring them what they’re bringing you.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 2:54 pm Reply | Quote
  • peter Says:

    Does anyone know that Nick Land quote where he talks about how trying to preserve culture/tradition in a market economy is not possible or even desirable? He talks about the chaotic market process uprooting tradition and culture or something like that? I don’t remember where he said it.


    John Hannon Reply:

    From Machinic Desire –

    “Machinic desire can seem a little inhuman, as it rips up political cultures, deletes traditions, dissolves subjectivities, and hacks through security apparatuses, tracking a soulless tropism to zero control. This is because what appears to humanity as the history of capitalism is an invasion from the future by an artificial intelligent space that must assemble itself entirely from its enemy’s resources.”

    Is that the kind of thing you had in mind? If so you could also have a look at “Meltdown.”
    Damn good stuff.


    Posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 6:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • pyrrhus Says:

    It has become apparent over the last century that no system in which women (and especially single women) have a decisive voice is remotely stable, because women are not creators or advocates of lasting culture, but are predominantly driven by emotions of a transitory variety….So any universal suffrage “system” is doomed from the outset.
    Please, someone, prove me wrong!


    Posted on December 23rd, 2015 at 12:25 am Reply | Quote
  • Skilluminati Says:

    Via: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/events/2012/freedom-to-connect_moglen-keynote-2012.html

    “The network, as it stands now, is an extraordinary platform for enhanced social control. Very rapidly, and with no apparent remorse, the two largest governments on earth, that of the United States of America and the People’s Republic of China have adopted essentially identical points of view. A robust social graph connecting government to everybody and the exhaustive data mining of society is both governments fundamental policy with respect to their different forms of what they both refer to, or think of, as stability maintenance. It is true of course that they have different theories of how to maintain stability for whom and why, but the technology of stability maintenance is becoming essentially identical.”

    Eben Moglen, “Innovation Under Austerity”


    Posted on December 23rd, 2015 at 12:33 am Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    Attachment to democracy has fallen over time, and from one generation to the next.

    Sounds good on paper, reality differs. “Well, but people always say the sky is falling.” And then, over your lifetime, you see things get worse. Especially the old seem to have low confidence in the demos.


    Posted on December 23rd, 2015 at 3:21 am Reply | Quote
  • Lightning Round – 2015/12/24 | Free Northerner Says:

    […] Support for democracy declining. […]

    Posted on December 24th, 2015 at 6:20 am Reply | Quote
  • This Week in Reaction (2015/12/27) | The Reactivity Place Says:

    […] the Talking heads at Vox meant to be worrying (and we gotta do somethin’) news is a source of Great Yuletide Cheer for Nick […]

    Posted on December 30th, 2015 at 11:04 pm Reply | Quote

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