Quote note (#260)

Dalrymple on visions of the Apocalypse:

Oceans of ink have been spilt on the attempt to estimate the true extent of the threat of Islam to the West, and the attempts range from the frankly paranoid to the most supinely complacent. For myself, I veer constantly between the two, hardly pausing in between. In the last analysis, the West has all the cards, intellectual and military; but if it refuses ever to play them, they are of no account.

If Islam destroys the West, it will only be in the role of a suicide weapon, deployed by the West against itself. The basis of the Apocalyptic case is that the West has been taught, very successfully, that it does not deserve continued existence. (“Better dead than rude” is John Derbyshire’s formulation.)

Islam is the Hell the West damns itself to, for its sins.

June 22, 2016admin 38 Comments »
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38 Responses to this entry

  • anon Says:

    Nick, have you made any posts in the past where you give your opinion on the MM’ish hyper-calvinist origin story of this suicidal desire? (IE, more or less purely indigenous)

    If so, have you compared this origin story to that of MacDonald, which hypothesizes that this indigenous trait has been hacked somewhat by a rising faction in the Cathedral, which sees itself as “outside” of the West, and which perceives itself to benefit from Western suicidal behaviour?

    [Reply]

    TheDividualist Reply:

    I haven’t researched it thoroughly but what weirds me out about MacDonald’s theory is that I never seen such Jews who see themselves as outsiders to the West. I always met Jews, or rather people of Jewish ancestry, who were at some point in their childhood they were told by their parents that the are partially or fully Jews and they were all WTF because they always felt like their exactly like all the other kids. Their identity was class based – educated liberal Brahmins – NOT ethnic. Of course they were flaming liberals and of course perhaps the lack of an ethnic identity is a red flag although it tends to work th same way for gentile Brahmins too. Still, I have never saw this outsider Jew group. Heard of them – the haredim, the oldschoolers, but those ain’t liberals. The liberals are mostly secular and assimilated. To make it clearer, some names. Was Einstein – a huge fan of socialism – an outsider or was very much like any gentile urban liberal Brahmin? Was even Marx an outsider? Read his infamous https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/ it seems he was more outsider to Jews than to the West and yet it is still his ideas that fuel the Cathedral. So in short, I think there are outsider Jews, like the haredim, but they are not liberal and have nothing to do with the Cathedral, and there are many influential liberal Jews but they are not outsiders.

    I think it is still true what Disraeli said that Jews are natural priests. When Protestants started to immanentize the eschathon, and created a powerful secular political priesthood, of course they joined them. But by joining them they became outsiders to Jewry and insiders to this New Class that rules the West for a few centuries now.

    [Reply]

    anon Reply:

    That’s all agreeable enough, and MacDonald’s work appears to be on board with that. MacDonald’s thesis isn’t about Jews monolithically, but about a cultural faction of Jews, which also includes a number of gentiles. Gentiles at the ADL, or with George Soros, serve as a short-hand example.

    [Reply]

    Brett Stevens Reply:

    perhaps the lack of an ethnic identity is a red flag

    I tend to agree. Sort of like lack of any of the obvious necessities for survival, one has found a person who is a social animal and not an actual one.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    You would have to look for the “is it good for the jews” tranch. aspirational Jews wanting to assimilate, they were pretty much the only jews one knew in NYC until fading out by say the 80s, Many of them were influenced by both the holocaust lore and the commie thing the commie thing had both a red diaper and a anti McCarthist aspect, There was also a sort of 30s-50s modern progressivism which can be debated if it was a wasp influence on them or the other way around. In any case In some sense Jews felt multiculturalism was a place for them to hide as one minority among others.Since by the 60s much of the strategy was against the establishment the man yada yada it served to lengthen rather than shorten full assimilation, at this point though im sure you have to be from a pretty political family to really really get that ,but its not needed as much because jews are just one more part of the majority of minorities tribe, not really needing, and it having worn it a bit thin the jewish angle per se. But come on is there a more powerful culture war meme to this day than nazi? so of course its still in play.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    My main beef with many Jews is that the ones most indignent about anti-semitism are the most nebbish, communist traitor kike stereotypes imaginable. They are the caricature they deny.

    TheDividualist Reply:

    Not sure how it works in the US but here in Mitteleuropa the Holocaust made an extremely strong impression, basically the kids I was writing about, who are told one day by their parents that you are half Jew or something and they are WTF because they feel like they are exactly like the other kids, are also told by their parents that in 1944 they would have tried to kill you for this ancestry, which is of course an even bigger WTF for them, so of course they end up being a “defensive liberal”, i.e.be strongly liberal because that is good for them in the sense of minimizing the chance of getting killed (they are wrong there, a for-profit dictatorship would minimize that chance, as they tend to be economically highly valuable, or a law-and-order type of regime). So there is this thing on one hand, and there is the other thing that even before the Holocaust Jews tended to be highly liberal and leftist, are are so even in places with less of a Holocaust impression.

    My point is, a smart thing would be to try to separate these two things, a _generic long standing_ tendency of Jews for liberalism and leftism on one hand, and on the other hand the the _specific_ “defensive liberalism” of “down with ethnic nationalism because that can lead to me getting gassed”, which can be characterized as “what is good for Jews” but sorta disingenious.

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    I think this is apt, as I’d put it Jews have a verbal facility that is especially powerful in popular government and moralizing societies. Thus their irrelevance to China.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 2:16 pm Reply | Quote
  • TheDividualist Says:

    There are perfect words, like “traitors” and “treason” that have fallen from even the committed Right’s vocabulary. Doesn’t the West looks exactly like a place governed by traitors? The only weird part is normally traitors are paid by an external party who benefits from the betrayal and this seems to be entirely lacking, it is more of an internal strife.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    But they are external The left is not part of western civilization, the pay it lip service or pwn it when convenient but they are clear they wish to destroy it and salt it.So they are paid with kudos from fellow travelers,and jobs in the cathedral.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    No, the left is VERY Western. Christian history is full of communist anti-nomian heresies, they’ve just been edited for ‘Jesus’ these days. It comes from our egalitarian farmer stock (Ricardo Duchesne

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    semantics I suppose surely they are us but just as surely they are trying to defeat “us” genetically culturally politically, nationally they dont identify as “us”. They dont beleive we are a people have a culture a nation or ought to have hegemony, to the extent that they do think we have these things is the extent they try to destroy them. So can we really consider them us?
    That said you’re right its a western phenomenon or it was till recently. Im not convinced it could have gone so wrong if we didnt have outsiders among us and hadnt colonized the world. Marxism needs disparity to thrive it found it in slaves jews and eventually hit upon the idea of importing [African folks] because colonialism or because slavery or holocaust.God what I would give to be back in the 70s whining about nordic socialism.I think communism was about to die when they hit upon racial redistribution

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 2:38 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    Diversity is fatal in any form and degree.

    Islam is a subset of that.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    I was just thinking that the AltRight isn’t discriminatory enough – ‘whitey’ includes lotso f people I’d love to see gassed, and I don’t think ‘unity’ with protectionists is a thing worh having.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    pray tell because I would have a hard time deciding whether to keep the recently historically successful hajinals or the slightly less successful outers that seem to not be as suicidal/

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 3:14 pm Reply | Quote
  • Eldrick Says:

    “they are of no account”

    Of all the cancers that plague the West, Islam is the most detectable and most treatable. That the body politic remains paralyzed in the face of this threat, to the point of literal disarmament reveals, perhaps more clearly than any other outwardly manifestation of entropy’s march, that the hour is VERY late.

    One doesn’t get to choose the ultimate Prog failure mode, but isn’t Mode Saracen close to ideal?

    Of course the smoldering Reich in short order gave birth to space travel, while the Saracens still hang their hat on (x + y)^2. This could be a VERY long game.

    [Reply]

    anon Reply:

    I doubt it’s anything all that clever.

    [Reply]

    Eldrick Reply:

    “Ideal”, for non-Utopians.

    Visions of Evil previously manifesting in flesh are drown-out by gurgling sounds.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 6:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Cryptogenic Says:

    I’ve always wondered how the invited could possibly be considered invaders. Answer: we dindunuffins.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 6:14 pm Reply | Quote
  • Apatheos Says:

    This seems to be a problem of coordination, jihad micro managing apocalypse. Differentiated by those who control the oil and those who are paranoid about controlling the oil. From the control side there’s anticipation of a conventional union of Islam and Capital, or at least that’s best-case scenario.

    Jihadi paranoid materialists anticipate only the end of religion, the end of the world of monotheism. The relationship between Capital and monotheism seems unclear here. You seem to be noting an alliance in this war between Islam and political correctness. They are both pandemic events aiming to complete the world; a critique of this, bitcoin/urbit (?), not in control of oil flow and not attempting to micro manage apocalypse, seems necessarily theopolitical.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Progs are going to run islam as far as it will take them like it did with christianity then it will turn on it or so it hopes.They have incredible hubris they are sure they can control a one world order if they can only neutralize white democracy with nigger votes.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 6:37 pm Reply | Quote
  • anonyme Says:

    An analysis just out in the journal Science (2014) suggests that the problem may be worse than anyone has imagined, with the population in Africa increasing from a billion people today to as much as 5.7 billion by 2100.

    “….In Nigeria alone the population is now estimated to increase as much as fivefold, from 160 million today to as much as 914 million people—in shouting distance of a billion—by 2100…”

    “Some countries will nearly triple. Somalia will have 27 million people in 2050, up from an estimated 10 million today, and the Democratic Republic of Congo’s 71 million population is predicted to rise to 182 million.”

    http://www.takepart.com/feature/2014/09/17/africas-hidden-population-explosion-bad-news-humans-and-wildlife

    What? 4.7 billion additional people in Africa by 2100!?!

    Last I heard it was only 3 billion…it changes with every new study, with every analysis…..

    And how many of them will be heading to Europe?

    Yes, let’s keep doing lots and lots of studies and analysis and try to get precise numbers at least.

    “In the landscape of extinction, precision is next to godliness….”

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Dont worry Admin has it covered we are going to do something with bitcoin and robotic spaceships or something something. The important thing to remember is the best thing to do is nothing and keep blogging

    [Reply]

    Ahote Reply:

    “We” aren’t going to do anything. When West stops feeding them the Malthusian limits will simply assert themselves and cut the population to sustainable size. Never forget that Nature is full of negative feedbacks.

    >And how many of them will be heading to Europe?

    Does it really matter? Given the fertility rates in Europe, by then if Europe doesn’t become Europistan, it will be mostly empty.

    [Reply]

    Dave Reply:

    And exactly when, and under what circumstances, will the West stop feeding them? The Cathedral would rather everyone in the West be forced to eat rice and beans everyday than stop feeding and vaccinating Africa.

    michael Reply:

    And you know what would be so wrong about having smaller populations in the western world? I for one would love to see america and europes non white population repatriated reducing the crowding and increasing the quality of life. [ nigger dysfunction aside]
    Anyway white birthrates are suppressed because of niggers white require a certain amount of physical and economic security and dignity for family formation. Diversity is at least an order of magnitude more expensive than simply the trillion a year in welfare. If Apple wants to sell more iphone to dindus let them figure out how to get them enough money this new world order economics is not capitalism

    Ditto to Dave.

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 7:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • anonyme Says:

    @Michael

    Okay, good….. as long as he’s got this one covered we should be fine

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 7:39 pm Reply | Quote
  • Eldrick Says:

    African population bomb enabled by Western medical aid, food & technology transfer.

    Ebola outbreak? Double flights to de Gaulle and send in CDC/WHO/MSF. Imagine, bio-medical advances succeed in bringing about the extinction of the Anopheles mosquito? HIV vaccine?

    Can altruism simply be switched off or must it be starved?

    Of course the Chinese are now on the continent in a big way though lacking in Universalist delusion, game theory likely applies.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 7:41 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    In all seriousness
    The lesson of DENRX etc is that homogeneous societies function best for a myriad of reason chiefly because they have less internal strife because they are -homogeneous. Some homogeneous places really function exceedingly well, and some may be hopeless.Cities can be fun and exciting because they are not so homogeneous but they always need to be hosted in nations which they inevitable turn on given half a chance.They never seem to be satisfied with the urban Bohemia but feel always a need to start imposing it on the country as a whole.various methods have been tried to balance the good and bad but cities always win. Civilization requires cooperation which requires aligned interests. This is tied to abilities and so oportunities there is historical proof a reasonable spread of these can be managed and that a large spread can not other shared interests ameliorate innate differences. As the world grew smaller wars became a problem the solution was thought to be to align states interests through things like trade and lessen their differences by eradicating things like religion and instituting universal morality. This tended to weaken the internal cohesion of the hegemonic states instituting it. another approach is needed and the ethnic etc glues will need to be re instated. The problem of cities will need to be explored. But even an ethno state with supportive cities will have to contend with genetic engineering soon.Both internally and externally. Obviously there will be a first mover advantage but the entire nation must evolve together. Humans need a support network they are not able to go it alone. Europeans found a sweet spot of reasonable liberty but it couldnt withstand non european ideas or citizens it also has not been tested against really hostile equals but since it does so poorly against really hostile less equals its grim. There seems to be a trade off intra euro of out and in bred much discussed. outbreds hajinals to use the term and data loosely really loosely may have accomplished more but cant seem to find the fortitude to hold on to it. Some back breeding and cultural exchange may be in order.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 7:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • anonyme Says:

    @Ahote

    >Does it really matter? Given the fertility rates in Europe, by then if Europe doesn’t become Europistan, it will be >mostly empty.

    Yes!

    “In his mind World War III represents the final self-destruction and imbalance of an asymmetric world, the last suicidal spasm of the dextro-rotatory helix, DNA. The human organism is an atrocity exhibition at which he is an unwilling spectator . . .”

    ― J.G. Ballard, The Atrocity Exhibition

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 8:09 pm Reply | Quote
  • anonyme Says:

    Good comments by Michael and Dave

    And Eldrick’s question:

    >Can altruism simply be switched off or must it be starved?

    What’s happening in Sweden (to give just one example) seems to indicate it cannot be switched off.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Im an alcoholic and addict recovering almost 30 years. the blindness to self destruction is astounding to watch from the outside. Few recover but it happens.The swedes have to get to a point where the pain of multiculturalism is worse than the pain of admitting it wont ever work.Thinking there is no alternative makes the process harder.Thinking they are alone makes it harder.The cathedral is a codependent spouse enabling the addict for its own sick reasons [new world order commie or capi].Whites have gone to extraordinary lengths for [blacks] and are spit on raped and murdered in return, the record is very long the fact that all of the west is waking up to this at the same time is very positive. But the cathedrals ability to shutdown speech and arrest thought criminals as terrorists is a very bad sign a lot is riding on the next few years

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 8:26 pm Reply | Quote
  • Eldrick Says:

    @anonyme

    I agree.

    Hard not to put “thwart Sub-Saharan Apocalypse” into the Failure Mode Saracen column.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 8:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • R. J. Moore II Says:

    This is, along with communism, why I find it impossible to feel bad for or empathize with normies as the AltRight apparently does. Weak, stupid, conformist people deserve to die.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    They certainly deserve to die but we need them so most must be reeducated Hopefully we get to publicly execute a few at some point meantime at least we get to laugh when commie [vulgar insult] like cox get their comeuppance curbside

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 9:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • Uriel Alexis Farizeli Fiori Says:

    goddamn puritans. isn’t it possible that the West too, will want to kill infidels (or, more hopefully, push them away)?

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 22nd, 2016 at 11:55 pm Reply | Quote
  • This Week in Reaction (2016/06/26) - Social Matter Says:

    […] quote note prompts Nick Land to […]

    Posted on June 29th, 2016 at 8:10 am Reply | Quote
  • Time to be rude. | Dark Brightness Says:

    […] If Islam destroys the West, it will only be in the role of a suicide weapon, deployed by the West against itself. The basis of the Apocalyptic case is that the West has been taught, very successfully, that it does not deserve continued existence. (“Better dead than rude” is John Derbyshire’s formulation.) […]

    Posted on June 29th, 2016 at 9:19 pm Reply | Quote

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