Quote note (#270)

Taleb on the media short-circuit:

Social media allowed me to go direct to the public and bypass the press, an uberization if you will, as I skip the intermediary. I do not believe that members of the press knows their own interests very well. I noticed that journalists try to be judged by other journalists and their community, not by their readers, unlike writers.

No one realizes they’re in a death-bubble until it gets disintermediated from the Outside. We’re going to be seeing ever more of that. (At the largest scale, the Cathedral concept was formulated to predict it.)

ADDED: A grimmer take on social media.

August 8, 2016admin 24 Comments »


24 Responses to this entry

  • Brett Stevens Says:

    The death-bubble occurs as soon as we create a System that promotes people based on its rules, not on effect in reality. Socialism is a system; so is any nepotistic and self-referential clique like journalism. Let them burn; we do not need them.


    a Reply:

    Let´s not give over the perfectly fine word, ‘system‘ (which incidentally is in the name-link of this site), from stem of synistanai “to place together, organize, form in order.”

    Especially not in (against) the memory of Heinz von Foerster.


    a Reply:

    „What I see, and what I believe lies beneath your questioning, is that science, or ‘sciencia’ in Latin, has been amazingly successful in the 2000 years since Aristotle. And what does ‘sciencia’ derive from? The Indo-European word for ‘sciencia’ is the word ‘scy’, and that is found in ‘science’ and in ‘schizophrenia’, and in ‘schism’, that is the word meaning ‘to separate’, and so systemics is a parallel development, only it’s the exact opposite of science, for it integrates. When you think about it today, all this system theory and systems research which crops up in both art and science, I wouldn’t call that science any more. I would call it systemics. Today’s science has moved on to an approach that sees things together: systemics. So I would see the steps taken today as being from science to systemics.

    In the course of my life, the more I concerned myself with physics, I realized that I was actually a meta-physicist. And then I increasingly played with that idea. And if you asked me, my dear Heinz von Foerster, what is a meta-physicist? I would say the following: There are questions among those we ask about the world that it is possible to answer. How old are you? Well, you can look that up in a catalog. Born in 1911. That means he is 90. Or you can ask questions which cannot be answered, like for example, tell me what was the origin of the universe? Well, then I could give you one of the 35 different theories. Ask an astronomer and he says there was this Big Bang about 20 million years ago. Or ask a good Catholic and he says everyone knows that God created the world and after 7 days he was weary and took a break, and that was Sunday. So there are different, very interesting hypotheses about the origins of the universe. That is, there are so many different hypotheses because the question cannot be answered. So all that is relevant is how interesting the story is that someone invents to explain it.”

    — an Austrian American scientist combining physics and philosophy, and widely attributed as the originator of Second-order cybernetics.


    a Reply:

    … a brain is required to write a theory of a brain. From this follows that a theory of the brain, that has any aspirations for completeness, has to account for the writing of this theory. And even more fascinating, the writer of this theory has to account for her or himself. Translated into the domain of cybernetics; the cybernetician, by entering his own domain, has to account for his or her own activity. Cybernetics then becomes cybernetics of cybernetics, or second-order cybernetics.[8]

    The work of Heinz von Foerster, Humberto Maturana, Ranulph Glanville, and Paul Pangaro is strongly associated with second-order cybernetics. Gordon Pask recommended the term New Cybernetics in his last paper[9] which emphasises all observers are participant observers that interact.

    Gertrudis van de Vijver stated in 1994 that the old cybernetics, the (second-order) new cybernetics and the cognitive paradigms are not that different from each other; and as is mostly the case, the so-called new paradigms are in a sense “older” than the “old” paradigms. The so-called “old” paradigms were in most cases strategically successful specializations in a general framework. Their success was based on a strong but useful simplification of the issues. The “new” paradigms are further specializations in the earlier one, or (as is mostly the case) a strategic retreat and introspection which broadens the specialized approach and is a return to the original, broader inspiration and outlook.[10]


    Sinistro stradale, morte, spatium vivendi Reply:

    Anyone having difficulty in seeing how this relates to NRx?

    If you don´t get it I´m not sure I wanna plain it.

    a Reply:

    ▬ „Lind and the ‘neo-reactionaries’ seem to be in broad agreement that democracy is not only (or even) a system”


    a Reply:

    ▬ „In the next chapter we will begin to construct an alternate system. Some neoreactionaries have said that “systems” are what we are trying to escape. They have countered with the implicit assertion, as expressed by Moldbug himself, that monarchy is not a system in the proper understanding of the word. That is, that systems are what we are trying to avoid.

    My contention is that there is no such thing. All governments are systems and even kings are pushed around by the five-phase process. Indeed, in the past, kingdoms themselves were the product of the five-phase process causing the disintegration of the Roman Empire. The feudal model was the explicit result of a failed adherence to capitalist economic governance. We may get to this later. The point is that systems are inescapable. Even cryptographic chain of command is really a type of system. It simply moves the system from a human-managed point to a software encoded form of law.”

    Everything is a system.


    Posted on August 8th, 2016 at 4:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • grey enlightenment Says:

    Japan has been running bigger deficits than the united states for decades and they haven’t imploded.


    Orthodox Reply:


    Major developed powers don’t have financial collapses, they are hit by either internal or external stress.

    If there is shooting in the South China Sea and Japan takes even a temporary a hit that shakes confidence, it is probably lights out for the yen.

    A euro disaster probably won’t unfold financially, but as a political action.


    michael Reply:

    POSSIBLY But even china is interlocked there a strong interest to keep the balls in the air no matter what and i mean any means necessary so its really hard to crash the whole thing and the us is looking immune to a crash we keep benefitting maybe its that our currency is backed by the us military. the other problem is even if they fail to keep the balls in the air they are not going to give up power they will then have a life and death motivation to maintain power by any means necessary and will say those means are for our own good anarcho tyranny. An economic crash might just be even better than 911 as far as they are concerned.


    Posted on August 8th, 2016 at 6:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • Paul Ennis Says:

    The grim take gives too much agency to the media. Whatever the Cathedral was it was never akin to a intelligence agency adversary vibe in the long view version. It’s more a sort of not having a real job spazfest for people who cannot programme.Contemporary media is I am not good at logic, so I’ll do social justice instead. For a cool variation see Milo.

    Their problem is that they don’t invest – no technomics here – and sort of imagine themselves as labourers in the digital media factory. The only problem is that if others can do the job cheaper and better they are screwed.

    The dinner table cult gets smaller each year. One day the last SJW wakes up to discover they are the weird uncle at the Christmas dinner spouting obscure things about black lives matter or whatever they are into now.


    Lucian Reply:

    It turns out the world isn’t divided into autistic programmers and SJWs.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Perhaps it is if those are the only people one knows. Moldbug for instance.

    But it’s still not.


    a Reply:

    never akin to a intelligence agency adversary vibe in the long view version.

    ▬ „The military–industrial–media complex is an offshoot of the military–industrial complex. Organizations like Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting have accused the military industrial media complex of using their media resources to promote militarism, which, according to Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting’s hypothesis, benefits the defense resources of the company.

    General Electric (which owns, but is in the process of divesting, 49% of NBC) …”


    ▬ „The military-entertainment complex is a concept relating to the cooperation between the military and entertainment industries to their mutual benefit, especially in such fields as cinema, multimedia and virtual reality.[1][2][3]

    A related concept, the creative-industrial complex, describes the collaborative relationships between creative, industry, and military institutions for political and economic gain.”

    This is not new, it started in the 50´s. Including the Intelligence Agency angle.
    CIA involved with Hollywood, in the 50´s.
    UFO movies n´ shit.


    Posted on August 8th, 2016 at 10:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • a Says:

    ▬ „journalists try to be judged by other journalists and their community, not by their readers”

    Possibly every reader here knows how well this was revealed in the GamerGate affair. Something´s gotta come up for them. An economic comeuppance. Criticize them.

    > What, you don´t read the papers? No, I read the comments to Nick Land.

    lol. The author is dead. Long live the author, which is everyone by now. Seriously, the term referred to somebody who authored somethin. Not to so semi-pop figure. Not before, not anymore. Fuck that. That´s, as it were, ‘a meat thing.’ You can author reverse backward writing on toilet paper, and thus ye be an author. Even an authority. But where in the higher-archy, that´s another matter.

    A random blogger might not be a great innovator, but he also might be. He might be quite novel. More novel. Authoritative even.

    But we all knew this.

    Just we haven´t all realized it or lived it to the same degree. Our brains aren´t adapted to it, adapted to the coming, to the same level.

    Who´d have predicted Mencius´ auctoritas?


    Posted on August 8th, 2016 at 10:19 pm Reply | Quote
  • Etiq Says:

    People these days don’t read articles; they read comment sections. Eventually the article will be cut out.


    a Reply:

    Often the first, or one of the first few comments, summarizes the article or its meaning, or the direction of the content (in meaning-space). It´s about information-technology, of getting the most dense packet of information with the least effort (energy, time).


    Posted on August 9th, 2016 at 2:29 am Reply | Quote
  • TheDividualist Says:

    >I noticed that journalists try to be judged by other journalists and their community, not by their readers, unlike writers.

    Not unlike many writers actually. The root problem is that gaining status among ones peers means gaining the admiration of ones peers and in many professions that means you get judged on difficulty of the ouvre not its utility to the public. Which could be fixed by more markets, the issue is that the signals get drowned out. When a cook signals expertise by making a special exotic difficult meal and not a normally tasty one, and when every gastro journalist and even tripadvisor reviewers praise because each wants to signal they have a refined taste and in the know, how will the price signals of the average chum who just wants a tasty mean get in the picture?

    This problem plagues;

    – academic philosophy, especially continental
    – academic economics, bullshit covered with impenetrable mathemathics
    – gastronomy
    – architecture, building impressive buildings instead of ones that people can enjoy: caper.ws/patterns/

    We could only fix it by price signals ruthlessly drowning out this professional “look at how difficult things I can do” signalling but no one really knows how to do that, even complete deregulation does not sound like something that could do it.


    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Separation of School and State fixes academia.

    It’s also a correct interpretation of the 1st Amendment.

    Do spare us commenters your wails that this spoils your master plans for a new religion.

    Honestly if people can’t keep the Gods they were born with they’ll never keep any.


    Lucian Reply:

    University privatisation and deregulation strikes fear into the heart of the progressive.


    Posted on August 9th, 2016 at 9:43 am Reply | Quote
  • Jack Arcalon Says:

    To delay political change, social media will increasingly enforce the use of real names and verified identities.
    All accounts will be linked, and IP addresses will be cross-correlated by the government.


    apocalipto Reply:

    How would this delay change?


    Posted on August 11th, 2016 at 5:35 am Reply | Quote
  • Outliers (#18) Says:

    […] Media obsolescence. Trump’s not Rmoney. Is the slow decline ending? Return of the Real Right. Consciousness versus self-noticing. Low trust. Trolling the path to the Presidency. Olympics mediocrity fatigue. Popularity ate the internet. Psycho Dish. “Oozing Lovecraftian horror.” Truth may be stranger than fiction in physics as well. Comedy is not news. American legal crucifixion. Media psychosis. Detoxifying from modernity. Success more sensibly defined. Weekly round: here, there and elsewhere. […]

    Posted on August 14th, 2016 at 10:18 am Reply | Quote
  • This Week in Reaction (2016/08/14) - Social Matter Says:

    […] Land finds Taleb saying “journalists try to be judged by other journalists and their community, not by their readers&#…. Kinda like clerics. Like the really stuffy sort of clerics. Also this Quote Note, from The […]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 7:57 am Reply | Quote

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