Quote note (#275)

From James C. Bennett’s indispensable book The Anglosphere Challenge: Why the English-Speaking Nations Will Lead the Way in the Twenty-First Century (2004), on the genealogy of the Neocameral State (though he doesn’t call it that):

The lowering of transaction costs for international financial activities in the 1960s started to allow major corporations and banks to take advantage of the lower tax and regulatory burdens of tax havens such as the Netherlands Antilles. Corporations became sophisticated consumers of “sovereign services,” in this case, venue of incorporation. In doing so, they built on a trend started by 1920s shipowners, who had increasingly sought Panamanian and Liberian registry for their ships.

Over the past three decades, these trends have accelerated enormously as the breakup of the old European empires began the process of multiplication of sovereign entities. The emergence of larger numbers of sovereign entities has created a more competitive market for sovereignty services, most particularly for incorporation but also ship registration, passport, residence permits, and other desirable items that any sovereign state has to sell. The increase in the number of providers, combined with the falling cost of accessing the providers, has made sovereignty services a highly competitive market area. As devolution produces yet more sovereign states and the Internet reduces the cost of accessing the services to rock bottom, this market can be expected to flourish. The market for sovereignty services has shown great oprice elasticity: the users of offshore accounts, shell corporations, and trust services proliferate as the cost of setting up such services fall.

Consider the ability to sell products and services on the Internet, and the decline of the corporation-employment model (seen in the practices of downsizing and delayering). Private Internet currencies based on strong encryption (cybermoney) may soon provide payment mechanisms that are not recorded in central clearinghouses and are thus beyond subpoena power. We can see that much of the actual economic activity of the coming era will pass into the transnational realm.

There, it will beyond the full control of any particular state.

August 17, 2016admin 66 Comments »
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66 Responses to this entry

  • Mark Says:

    I’ve got the book but weird fiction has exploded this year so it’s at the back of the queue!

    [Reply]

    SVErshov Reply:

    please, share your list

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 7:01 am Reply | Quote
  • (N) G. Eiríksson Says:

    So is this legit happening? The old fuckers losing control.

    Black Market Expansion. Or Black Market Supremacy.

    (Not that the Black Market isn´t already supreme.)

    It’s Leftism that forces good people to go dark

    Leftism, the politics of bullying & grievance,

    theft, & lies. Disguising itself as ‘Right’..

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 7:29 am Reply | Quote
  • Chris b Says:

    Because these states are sovereign. Sure.

    [Reply]

    Ahote Reply:

    You’re much worse than Anissimov ever was. Everything that isn’t DPRK is bad governance to you, is it? That makes me wonder, what kind of outcome do you actually want? How do you want the day in a life of an average guy to look like? According to your proposals it seems you hate mankind’s guts, and want to make most of mankind suffer every single day of their miserable lives (which, luckily wouldn’t last long – in country ran by you average lifespan would probably be something around 30 years).

    [Reply]

    Chris b Reply:

    Engage the point.

    [Reply]

    Ahote Reply:

    Why don’t you answer the question?
    What is you desired outcome?

    [Reply]

    Chris B Reply:

    You see, you constantly mold the complaint to standard American Liberal critiques of Soviet governance. The result is just strawmen. The whole discussion becomes beyond hopeless. I fully understand your argument, it is the mainstream argument we have had to listen to ad nauseum. It is the standard fare pumped out by the likes of Orwell, Arendt, Hayek etc. and you will note that they all received their paychecks and promotion from the same people – the CIA and American foundations – this is record. My aims is to try to devise a political thought system which is as likely as possible to create stable, effective and sane political systems. The first point of which is being fully aware that powerful undivided government is an absolute pre-requisite. This is what Moldbug covered as well. You and admin don’t even agree with this first step, hence my question which never gets answered – what the hell has any of this got to do with Moldbug?
    But my aim is as simple as possible, and my vision of what the everyday life would be is as much liberty as possible to pursue the goods that are inline with the good of the greater political polity – in short a political system which is based on an ethical system in line with Confucious, St Thomas and Aristotle. I hold that Aristotle was utterly correct in subsuming ethics under politics (in the Aristotlean sense) and making ethics a matter of learning how to act qua other actors and qua society/ political structure, and not as an epistemolgy concerned with establishing what is the correct act divorced from any political structure. You will see this does not fit in with the DPRK, Stalinist Russia or any other such Enlightenment projects. It also does not fit with this exit nonsense.

    SVErshov Reply:

    I guess, it is not going anywhere, not because of some malitious intents, but because questions itself falling in the range of intractable political phenomenas. unless we are able to agree on what is that ‘political’ why not to stay away from that ghost concept. functional systems do not rely on ‘political’ and definitions of sovereign, legitimacy, ethical can be derived from local interractions when required.

    Ahote Reply:

    >The result is just strawmen.

    Yeah, tens of millions of dead don’t matter. What matters is who received funding from where, yeah. So what if it’s possible that interests align at some point(s) in time, right? If some foundation offered to finance you, you would refuse, right?

    I have a desired outcome in mind, and seek political system that will produce said outcome. Admin and I have different desired outcomes, but he too seeks political system that will produce said outcome. What you desire is “secure government” (as if there ever could be such a thing), and to hell with outcomes. You use a Classical Liberal argument that insecure government guarantees bad government to attack Classical Liberalism. And then you go and guarantee bad government in order for it to be secure (though you tend to misinterpret what security means). Well, if it’s already bad, who cares if it’s secure or not? Of course, it goes without saying that even if you had an omnipotent and immortal sovereign, an absolute God-Emperor, that doesn’t guarantee good government. Why, maybe he’s a lunatic, maybe he’s guided by evil ideology, maybe he’s simply inept, etc.
    You treat the state like a Platonic form, sullied by none of the imperfections of the human beings who occupy its offices. Never mind that throughout history most governments have been corrupt and/or incompetent. Never mind that absolute monarchies were colossal failures, in every way one step from democracies (only marginally better than democracies, and one step away from becoming democracies themselves).

    You quote Fascist ideologists, whatever has *that* got to do with Moldbug? When has Moldbug praised Mussolini? On the other hand, he did praise Mises and Rothbard (even though he rightfully criticized early Rothbard)…

    >pursue the goods that are inline with the good of the greater political polity

    The entire point of Neoreaction, Patchwork and Exit, and the entire point of Classical Conservative critique of Classical Liberalism concept of Minarchy is that there is as much as such a thing as the good of the greater political polity, as there is such a thing as liberty. Freedom is freedom to do something (some particular thing), and one man’s freedom is other man’s tyranny (e.g. sodomites and shari’a can’t coexist). Similarly one man’s good is another man’s evil. What constitutes liberty, what constitutes good, it all depends on your beliefs. Enter Patchwork, everyone gets patch good of their polity is enforced (or rather what they consider to be a good of their polity). You think that is ‘voluntaryism’? No, that is pan-secessionism, point is in disintegration of super-states, not in their takeover. Who will among patches be proven right? Well, future belongs to those who show up for it.
    All must be coerced into your vision of ‘good’ or else? You are prepare to exterminate large segments of population to enforce your vision of ‘good’ (you do get that regime described in A Letter to France would be neck-deep in revolutions and uprisings momentarily after ascension)? Fine, but don’t claim that is what Moldbug had in mind.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Good posts, both of you. I don´t think a synthesis of the ethics of Confucious, St Thomas and Aristotle is necessarily exlclusive of Patchwork.

    On a tangent of perspectival relation

    ▬ “The Middle Ages [and also certain ancient civilizations] knew nationalities but not nationalisms. Nationality is a natural factor that encompasses a certain group of common elementary characteristics that are retained both in the hierarchical differentiation and in the hierarchical participation, which they do not oppose.”

    ▬ “The traditional state is organic, but not totalitarian. It is differentiated and articulated, and admits zones of partial autonomy. It co-ordinates forces and causes them to participate in a superior unity, while recognising their liberty. Exactly because it is strong, it does not need to resort to mechanical centralising … the true state is omnia potens (‘All powerful’), not omnia faciens (‘doing all’).”

    ▬ “One will have to be careful that the ‘socialist’ element, even if it is a ‘National Socialism,’ does not get the upper hand and let everything become a mass phenomenon grouped around the momentary prestige of a Fuhrer.”

    ▬ “Evola retraced his thesis about the “absolute individual,” wherein he deplored above all “the decline, in the West, of the value of individuality.” “Although it may seem strange,” he wrote, “at the base of our imperialism will be encountered values which appear, equally, as presuppositions of liberal forms of democracy. The difference comes from the fact that, in liberalism, the said values are affirmed by a race of slaves [sic] who do not dare to think them and desire them to the end—for and in the individual—but rather who, on the contrary, displace them in an illegitimate and egalitarian manner, towards ‘society’ and ‘humanity.’” It is revealing that Evola, in this passage, far from denouncing the individualistic presuppositions of liberal doctrine, recriminates liberalism, on the contrary, for not daring “to think them and to desire them to the end.” This absolutization of the individual—in opposition to the people—which threatens at all times to fall into solipsism, has been well noted by Philippe Baillet, who wrote concerning Impérialisme païen: “Nietzschean ‘individualism’ here is extended to caricature: some passages . . . seem to simply erect in personal philosophy an absolute agoraphobia. ‘Sociality,’ whose origin is uncompromisingly attributed to primitive Christianity, is here synonymous with ‘contamination.’ Community does not exist, or rather is also confused with the abhorred ‘collectivity.’ The ‘people’ is a fiction, a flatus voici (‘mere word’) which unmasks the nominalist lucidity: it is identified with the masses, which is nothing as long as it has not been molded by the will of the “dominators,” of the “masters.” This total absence of a communitarian dimension must be insisted upon. Expressed here in an extremist form, the Evolian ‘asociality’ [individuality] would only change its modalities of expression, but not its status, in all his later works.” (“Comme une bouteille à la mer . . . ,” preface to Julius Evola, Impérialisme païen [Puiseaux: Pardès, 1993], 19).”

    ▬ Evola wrote that “a state is organic when it has a center and when that
    center is an idea which effectively models, by its own virtue, its diverse
    parts.”

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    ▬ France constituted the most complete model of the creation of a nation by the state. Nonetheless, it is also the country where the sovereign authority of the state—defined since Jean Bodin as “indivisible and inalienable“—had most impoverished the social organicity and destroyed local autonomies …
    The Romano-Germanic Empire undoubtedly better respected the organicity of society better than the nation-state. But it respected it better to the extent that its power was not absolute and unconditional but on autonomies the contrary relatively weak, in which sovereignty was shared or distributed, and in which power was less concerned with imposing its ‘form’ on the different local collectivities than with respecting their autonomy as much as possible. The very principle of any imperial construction is, in effect, the principle of subsidiarity. We cannot forget that this principle implies leaving to the base the maximum power possible and not making it go upwards towards the ‘higher’ except for those aspects of authority and decision that cannot be exercised below.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 9:59 am Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    Can someone just create Interzone already?

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 10:31 am Reply | Quote
  • wu-wei Says:

    The emergence of larger numbers of sovereign entities has created a more competitive market for sovereignty services

    Isolated, this sentence fragment can’t possibly get any more NRx.

    The market for sovereignty services has shown great oprice elasticity

    Is high price elasticity basically the same thing as “exit”? In the NeoCam context, does it makes sense to talk about “sovereign QoS” elasticity, for example?

    Private Internet currencies based on strong encryption (cybermoney) may soon provide payment mechanisms that are not recorded in central clearinghouses and are thus beyond subpoena power.

    Wow, these excerpts cover just about all the NRx bases (lol).

    [Reply]

    VKR Reply:

    @wu-wei Stability and longevity is part of the QoS of sovereign entities. A larger number of smaller sovereign entities are unavoidably less stable compared to traditional major nation states. Esp once the stabilizing effect of major nation states disappears. Most of these smaller sovereign entities are viable only due to Pax Americana.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    exactly those “sov states” and my panamanian passport I got in return for a bank deposit ten years ago is worth what the cathedral wants it to be worth. To say nothing of the thugs that run countries that sell passports and holding corps,
    So yes the article sound like a dream straight out of NRX cira 2011 except as im constantly reminded its the current year, and the cathedral seems to claim a new sov corp or sov ocean every week.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    >>the cathedral seems to claim a new sov corp or sov ocean every week.

    say what now. are you saying it´s expanding?

    wu-wei Reply:

    You’re probably right. Still, it’s worth noting that the only three truly independent states today (USA, Russia, and China) also happen to have the three largest respective nuclear arsenals. Even ‘plucky little Israel’ has managed to eke out an existence for itself. Not to mention North Korea or Pakistan. Looking forward, this trend will surely only accelerate.

    Of course, a nuclear arsenal by itself doesn’t necessarily prevent subversion via Cathedral, as has occurred in Britain, France, and India. But it probably helps. At any rate, even those countries are unlikely to relinquish their nukes any time soon, and should they somehow again become truly independent states, then they will surely prove useful.

    [Reply]

    Ahote Reply:

    >Of course, a nuclear arsenal by itself doesn’t necessarily prevent subversion via Cathedral, as has occurred in Britain, France, and India.

    Britain, and by extension India lacked “spiritual security.”

    France is… well, France. I don’t think they needed any subversion in the first place. France may be under “International Community” rule, but I doubt France would’ve turned out much differently if it were independent post-WWII.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    wu-wei +10

    Would anyone know about any good podcasts, lectures or the like on said entities? and the related structure, even practical approaches.

    Even: It would seem like an opportune time for a Neocameral lecture playlist

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    of course its expanding thats why they call it globalization its not sustainable till they control it all and they know that

    [Reply]

    Eldrick Reply:

    I agree, however a watershed looms.

    Further consolidation will only tighten the feedback loop: AI isn’t simply a TechComm
    wet dream, it’s here. A significant chunk of the Fortune Global 100 is incorporating AI related “efficiencies” into five year plans. Human labor is about to be devalued on an unprecedented scale AND at an unprecedented rate. The internet wasn’t a revolution, it was a vector.

    Globalization posited the Knowledge Economy as Bodhi, while in reality there are greater efficiencies to be found in menial white collar human crunching than in slapping together Nikes (see Sub-Saharan African demographics). The middle class in Lagos will fair much better than that in the Midlands.

    The marginal value of humanity is about to annihilated.

    “There’s international socialism, or there’s national socialism … or you try to cut a deal with Skynet. … That’s basically it.”

    That is it.

    There is simply nothing the Cathedral can do, each consolidation only serves to bank Potential capital destruction. Financialization has hitched the Cathedral’s future to a star worthy of Perseids week; perpetual, exponential growth. Which given humanity and the finite nature of the rock upon which it resides, may as well be conjured by a half-naked Bantu witch doctor.

    “Tech is pozz’d”, yes it certainly is and that’s pretty god damned wonderful tbh. If tech had gone full ancap in the early 1990s, we wouldn’t be having this exchange.

    To paraphrase admin, as I think he so desperately needs to be paraphrased:

    “at this moment, given the gift of sight so afforded, you fucking choose to replay a bloodstained film that absolutely guarantees the total annihilation of posterity and your progeny?”

    You cannot exit this system, who would be silly enough to propose such a thing (Sealand). This system fails and then you either crawl forth from the wreckage or you die. Sovereignty will come and will come by way of superior violence (including deterrence).

    The aspiring NeoCameralist would be better served in figuring out how to neutralize two billion Sub-Saharan Africans and Chinese CRISPR babies, than agonizing over potato patches.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    >>Globalization posited the Knowledge Economy as Bodhi, while in reality there are greater efficiencies to be found in menial white collar human crunching than in slapping together Nikes

    What are you illustrating? Unpack, please.

    Eldrick Reply:

    @Eiriksson

    I was speaking generally to the snarking class’s propensity to attribute globalization’s externalities to uneducated, outmoded, nativist proles.

    In reality that cohort has already been devastated. The next big thing, AI/automation, is going to hit the snarking class (and their aspirants). Hard.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    I bid you to unpack further.

    Eldrick Reply:

    @Eiriksson

    Look at the system of control and tell me that the soft power professions most heavily invested in reality compensation aren’t ripe for creative destruction.

    Journalists disseminate information, economists apply crude models to stochastic systems, historians contort, humantities attempt to rewrite the nature of humanity, the diplomatic corp blunders about the global believing game theory has something to do with Brianna Wu.

    The aspirants and bureaucrats push paper, cross & dot, apply statutes & codes, count, transact, write shitty code.

    And yet they hold power.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Excel-lent.

    Yet, as you say, they manage to hold power.

    There is some mechanism they manage through to not become too obsolete.

    Narrative. PR. Gangsterisim. This is where super-hero NRx crypto-tech comes in to kick ass.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    18=EXPANSION
    18=FLAMBOYANT TRIO
    18=FOUND: NUMOGRAM
    18=FUCK ALL YOU ASSHOLES
    18=GENIUS OF ELECTRICITY
    18=GOLDEN DAWN
    18=GTVN
    18=HYPERSTITION POLYTICS
    18=HYPERSTITIONS WITHIN HYPERSTITIONS
    18=I KNOW THAT YOU CAN HEAR THIS

    18=BLOGOSPHERE AT CRITICAL MASS
    18=BROTHER IN BLINDNESS
    18=CODED RUNES
    18=COLONEL JACKSON WEST
    18=COME FACE TO FACE WITH ALL EVIL
    18=COWRIE=SYMBOL OF WOMANHOOD
    18=DENDROGRAM
    18=DENIZENS OF THE ABYSS

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 10:57 am Reply | Quote
  • Uriel Alexis Says:

    Pirate Bay’s attempt to build a country on an abandoned oil platform some years back wasn’t that bad after all (they lacked weapons, which make them risible, but the intent was on the right way).

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Referring to this? A

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

    ▬ “In January 2007, The Pirate Bay attempted to purchase Sealand after harsher copyright measures in Sweden forced them to look for a base of operations elsewhere.”

    Digression. This is especially amusing:

    ▬ “In August 1978, Alexander Achenbach, who describes himself as the Prime Minister of Sealand, hired several German and Dutch mercenaries to spearhead an attack on Sealand while Bates and his wife were in England.[8] They stormed the platform with speedboats, jet skis and helicopters, and took Bates’ son Michael hostage. Michael was able to retake Sealand and capture Achenbach and the mercenaries using weapons stashed on the platform. Achenbach, a German lawyer who held a Sealand passport, was charged with treason against Sealand[8] and was held unless he paid DM 75,000 (more than US$35,000 or £23,000).[17] The governments of the Netherlands, Austria and Germany petitioned the British government for his release, but the United Kingdom disavowed his imprisonment, citing the 1968 court decision.[3] Germany then sent a diplomat from its London embassy to Sealand to negotiate for Achenbach’s release. Roy Bates relented after several weeks of negotiations and subsequently claimed that the diplomat’s visit constituted de facto recognition of Sealand by Germany.”

    [Reply]

    John Hannon Reply:

    A similarly eccentric sovereignty venture (minus mercenaries and kidnappings) in Welsh border country –

    http://www.richardkingofhay.com/home-rule.html

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 12:08 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    Who pays for the transportation, communication, and energy infrastructure, the civil and legal law and contract enforcement, the military protection, The raw science, R and D, education, that make these gadgets possible, who pays to maintain a civilization able to afford and be interested in ever more complex gadgets? The morality aside if chinks and jews are allowed to continue to rip off our technology, manufacturer it the the hellhole most triangulated by oligarchs and marxists then sell it tax free to us, well to borrow a leftist phrase its unsustainable.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    and for the hundredth time no Im not a national socialist I just think you need a holistic approach what its takes to invent produce market and buy capitalisms widgets is what a well run civilization has. Your plan ends with people trading their dead parents for soylent green futures.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    You make a persuasive argument. But I am but a philosopher, so far. Not much of a grand Capitalist, not yet at least. Altho I did save about a 1000$ for the family business. By interfering, as it were. Recently.

    You cannot seriously expect of white men to plan insurgencies against Leviathan. You´re talking about toppling the World government.

    AS you say, you need a holistic approach — it´s what it takes — to invent, produce, market, and buy Capitalism´s widgets. It is what a well run civilization has.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 3:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @michael
    Imagine the US was a sov corp patch do you think it would allow itself to be ripped off or do you think it would be compensated for the value of the infrastructure human capital and market it owns?

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    what you think you see here is not whats going on, right now the marxists are letting the globalists run free and be protected in return for all power being ceded to the marxists the globalists used to be capitalists and sided with the people against the state by as always happens they go for the short money [like faggot millennials only worried about their lives] once the marxists are secure enough watch out.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 4:01 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    You think when the cathedral sees your Haitian badges they going to get scared huh? We dont give a shit about your stinkin badges is what they will tell you.You need a super power weapon to get respect or you need something a superpower wants enough to protect you that it cant just take from you.
    SUPERIOR VIOLENCE IS WHAT GRANTS SOVEREIGNTY,
    the cathedrals supposed respect for badges is a ploy its to make others respect them. when they want Duarte to stop killing niggers they tell him to stop killing niggers.They tell switzerland fuck your thousand years of neutrality and privacy morals open your books or we fuck you in the ass. And they seem pretty confident they can talk like that to putin and the chinks.
    NSA probably fucking made bitcoin, doesnt matter you want privacy sell with cash today, hell you can sell on the books and get away without taxes if you want the risk but once you are at a level where it counts you cant hide. so go ahead put you chinese crap fakes on ebay but you want to be LG youre going to pay someone.
    youre being looted and told its capitalism

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 4:19 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/17/alt-right-rejoices-at-trump-s-steve-bannon-hire.html
    cathedral is reporting the alt right has been hired to take over Trump’s campaign. Spencer Brimelow and Taylor asked to comment respond “Make America secure the existence of our people and a future for white children again.”

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    This is going to be Kristallnacht on overton windows.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 17th, 2016 at 11:06 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    @Ahote As always, questions keep getting directed at me along the lines of “when did Moldbug say X” when the simple expedient of google + “Unqualified Reservations” + X would provide you with it.
    “When fascism ascends to power, it creates a coherent central authority (good) which is not responsible in any way (bad), maintains itself in power by indocrinating its subjects (bad), and practices unnecessary and sadistic violence (bad). Thus we have one good and three bads, which makes bad. It is not surprising that fascism is generally considered bad.
    However, since we have one good, it is not surprising that it can accomplish good as well. For example, it is just the bee’s knees for crime, and may even be the least of two evils. Mussolini did a fine job with the Mafia. Imagine him in Mexico now.”

    You can find more. You will note the good point there. Also, from “why I am not a libertarian”:
    “The disadvantage of neocameralism is that it is completely alien to American voters, that it has no connection at all to any American value system, that no one has even heard of it at all, that it represents a complete rejection of the sacred American principle of democracy, and that it could be described, not utterly without grain of truth, as “corporate fascism” or some such similar epithet.”

    The issue you have is that all of your understanding comes from liberal thinkers, and liberal theories, and not from a reactionary school of thought. The same with Admin. So when you talk about Fascism, you are talking as someone pwnd by liberals all funded through the retarded foundation and education system of the west post war. Of course, it is so pervasive it has taken on the mantle of being “reality” and just correct, but it isn’t. I can approach fascism with fresh eyes because such concepts of totalitarianism don’t set of the alarm telling me to run around the room screaming “1984.” Even all of the libertarian “outsiders” are/were sucking on this teat of liberalism, and well within its framework. Your Lennin’s and your Rothbards are far closer to each other than they are to a Carlyle, who is quite frankly alien now.
    Finally, Your last comment on uprising gives away your revolutionary liberal heritage. We are coming from different traditions, and our language is pretty much incompatible.

    [Reply]

    Ahote Reply:

    >Mussolini did a fine job with the Mafia.

    Except Mafia was lesser evil than Mussolini. Also what he did to Mafia was because hurt ego, not because Law & Order. In fact, Mafia was, since its inception to this very day better at providing Law & Order in Southern Italy than Italian state (that’s why it was formed in the first place, when national-liberals formed Italian state, they did away with nobility and it left a vacuum on property protection services, which Mafia was there to fill).

    >totalitarianism don’t set of the alarm telling me to run around the room screaming

    I’m not opposed to Fascism and totalitarianism because some knee-jerk reaction. I’m opposed to it because of outcomes they produce. Also, such forms of governance always get mired over their heads in corruption on all levels (something to be opposed to in addition to outcomes).

    >Your Lennin’s and your Rothbards are far closer to each other than they are to a Carlyle, who is quite frankly alien now.

    You’re exactly wrong, Carlyle (like most, if not all reactionaries at the time) belonged to the Romantic movement (together with the likes of Rousseau) and would’ve extolled Lenin, like he did Robespierre. Hilaire Belloc was an ardent supporter of French Revolution and on very good terms with Fabian Socialists.

    >Finally, Your last comment on uprising gives away your revolutionary liberal heritage.

    It is a statement of fact, it has nothing to do with my worldview. You cannot impose something utterly alien and opposed to everything they believe in on populace and expect no resistance. If you want to succeeded, you must be ready to ruthlessly exterminate resistance.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Gotta say Ahote is on top.

    One can´t really put the Liberal cat back in the hat anyway. Pandora´s box, as it were, is open. Return-to-the-past ideologues always lose.

    No one´s gonna convince people to return to pre-Capitalism.

    Guys writing like that has any chance of happening are history fanboys or worse.

    It comes down to the same as the Commies, if you can provide a better alternative than Capitalism, where is your produce? Where is your community? Show it work. Show me you got something… do you even have a single business or private club of your own? (This means ‘do you own a residence that is solely a private club or do you have access to one?’ Because all the real HRx did, as landed gentry.)

    Carlyle extolled Robespierre?

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    That is not to say that HRx is not good. It is. People need to show alternatives to the Cathedral, even if just thru writ. And recover and reclaim lost concepts, narratives, legends. Arts. Methods.

    ▬ „The prayer is uttered by Publius Decius Mus, the consul of 340 BC, during the Samnite Wars. He vows to offer himself as a sacrifice to the infernal gods when a battle between the Romans and the Latins has become desperate:

    The pontifex instructed him to don the toga praetexta, to veil his head and, with one hand held out from under his toga touching his chin, to stand on a spear laid under his feet and speak as follows: ‘Janus, Jupiter, Mars Pater, Quirinus, Bellona, Lares, divine Novensiles,[8] divine Indigetes, gods whose power extends over us and over our enemies, divine Manes, I pray to you, I revere you, I beg your favour and beseech you that you advance the strength and success of the Roman people … . As I have pronounced in these words, … I devote the legions and auxiliaries of the enemy along with myself, to the divine Manes and to Earth.’
    [google.is/serch?q=devotio]

    muh carlyle

    ▬ there is one solution to be eliminated right away:the solution ο ί those who want to relyοηwhat is left ο ί the bourgeoisworld, defending and using it as a bastion against the more extremecurrents ο ί dissolution and subversion, even ί Ε they have tried to reani-mate or reinforce these remnants with some higher and more tradi-tional values.Ι η the first place, considering the general situation that becomesclearer every day since those crucial events that are the two worldwars and their repercussions, to adopt such an orientation signifiesself-deception as to the existence ο ί material possibilities. The trans-formations that have already taken place go too deep to be reversible.The energies that have been liberated, or which are ί η the course ο ίliberation, are not such as can be reconfined within the structures ο ίyesterday’s world. The very fact that attempts at reaction have referredto those structures alone, which are void ο ί any superior legitimacy,has made the subversive forces all the more vigorous and aggressive. Ι ηthe second place, such a path would lead to a c ~ m p r o m i s e that wouldbe inadmissible as an ideal, and perilous as a tactic. As Ι have said, thetraditional values ί η the sense that Ι understand them are not bourgeoisvalues, but the very antithesis ο ί them.Thus to recognize any validity ί η those survivals, to associate themί η any way with traditional values, and to validate them with the latterwith the intentions already described, would be either to demonstratea feeble grasp ο ί the traditional values themselves, or else to diminishthem and drag them down to a deplorable and risky form ο ί compro-mise. Ι say “risky” because however one attaches the traditional ideasto the residual forms ο ί bourgeois civilization, one exposes them to theattack-in some respects inevitable, legitimate, and necessary-cur-rently mounted against that civilization.
    One is therefore obliged to turn to the opposite solution, even ί ίthings thereby become still more difficult and one runs into anothertype ο ί risk. It is good to sever every link with all that which is des-tined sooner or later to collapse. The problem will then be to maintainone’s essential direction without leaningοηany given or transmittedform, including forms that are authentically traditional but belong topast history. Ι η this respect, continuity can ο η l Υ be maintainedοηanessential plane, so to speak, as an inner orientation ο ί being, beside thegreatest possible externalliberty. As we shall soon see, the support thatthe Tradition can continue to give does not refer to positive structures,regular and recognized by some civilization already formed by it, butrather to that doctrine that contains its principles ο η l Υ ί η their supe-rior, preformal state, anterior to t h ~ particular historical formulations:a state that ί η the past hadηοpertinence to the masses, but had thecharacter ο ί an esoteric doctrine.

    Chris B Reply:

    The idea of the mafia being a lesser evil is absurd, and Moldbug is clearly with me there. If you had read anything about the Sicilian Cosa Nostra you would be repulsed by them (look up “the mattanza” or read anything by John Dickie) The phenomena is a typical one of liberal governments. You also obviously know nothing about fascism beyond liberal sources.
    Your Carlyle comments are nonsensical and not deserving of a response.
    Your final comments are beyond recovery.
    It is clearly past time to admit that neoreaction just means anti-democracyism and that there are three broad traditiona that are incompatible. It could have meant something specific, but Hestia lost the chance long ago. There is a Liberal Nrx run by admin, a identarian nrx based in Hestia (with major overlap -identarinism being made up of core liberal principles) and an absolutist nrx (I can’t shake the label) which derives from Moldbug. That is the schism, and there is no way to communicate – they have different language. Liberal nrx refuses to budge and is subversive. This shouldn’t have happened (liberals should.have been cut out) but that is the way it worked.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    What are the prospects of Absolutist ‘NRx’ so far as attaining power?

    How would it win against technocommercialism?

    Ahote Reply:

    >look up “the mattanza” or read anything by John Dickie

    I’ll take small-scale feuds over world wars any and every time. Regulator-Moderator feud, or the Johnson County War were not even blips on the radar compared to the War of Northern Aggression, totally invisible. Feudal inter-noble wars were nothing compared to Napoleonic Wars. And how can you even dare mention Mattanza when Great War and WWII are in the picture? But, Carlyle revels in violence, of course Carlylean like yourself prefers great slaughter to infinitesimal one… I never should’ve doubted otherwise.

    >You also obviously know nothing about fascism beyond liberal sources.

    Fascism and totalitarianism are logical conclusion of Jacobinism. Top-down social engineering and revolutionary reshuffling of society, how can you claim those things are even remotely reactionary?

    >Your final comments are beyond recovery.

    Charles X attempt at brute-force restoration ended up an utter failure with 19th century French population, and you think you’ll succeed with 21st century French population… peacefully, yet imply that *I* am the delusional one?! And with confiscations of capital to boot? No, the wealthy won’t support the insurgents *at all* y’know!

    michael Reply:

    Chris Im sympathetic I think even your detractors are its a difficult problem some focua more on one aspect than another. I do think removing democracy from western civilization may be a bridge too far, but as i have said and which was MMs great contribution to make so clear to former liberals, its faux democracy.
    The problem i see with you fascism idea is that a good fascist is hard to find, sure if you can find one you could probably get him democratically appointed and if if hes good he wont have any trouble with democracy from then on, but hes hard to find and wont last forever. This is the same problem I have with monarchy.
    But youre right the transition from democracy to fascism is a natural compared to trying to explain neocameralism let alone instituting it. frankly discussing absurd unlikelihoods while rome is burning is insane.daydreaming about what might be one day is fine as long as the most resources are put into the immediate problem of stopping the bleeding and infection before we are dead and there is no one day.

    Just once Id like some NRX [which increasingly I guess i can no longer claim to be] to explain in plain english what neo cameralism is and how it could be possibly be transitioned to in the west.
    Because here what it sounds like to me Soros is going to own NY and have the power of life and death over its inhabitants who already own homes businesses etc there, but we they dont like it we can pack up and move to Jersey which is owned by pdiddy or CT. which is owned by Bloomberg etc etc which still leaves me plotting to violently take some ground and live like any free white man wants.
    in the best case the only patch worth living in is what america might have been if commies hadnt hijacked the constitution and imported 170 million niggers, so why on earth am i going to give the niggers and commies america and try to set it back up on a micro scale in some piece of shit state they deign to allow us when we are stronger and smarter than them.and its 10000000000000 easier to take it back than convert to cameeralism

    I digress

    It occurs that the democrats seem to win by taking the systemic approach over the great leader approach.I have said it 200 times now the cathedral is brilliant because it allows western nations the illusion of democracy while giving leaders the ability to make the people vote for or at least feel like they voted for whatever the elites want to do.Its able to make people vote themselves off the planet, imagine its power if it were working for, not against people’s interests. The left has overreached and has decided the only move is damn the torpedoes.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    ‘Good’ Democratic Fascism propagated by a commenter on Mr. Land´s website.

    Seriously. There´s already a plenty of that elsewhere. One Mr. Augustus Invictus, is already in that party.

    The hydra that Soros is working in league with possibly assassinated Jörg Haider.

    Trump isn´t even working for you guys. He´s pre-vetted. Otherwise he´d never be allowed a platform or the whole charade. No one man is that powerful anymore. It´s all networked.

    Brown people worship is a religion and an empire. You guys are going to be complaining about this until the day you die.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    “Trump isn´t even working for you guys” -say hi to alex jones for me.

    “Brown people worship is a religion and an empire. You guys are going to be complaining about this until the day you die.” – uh no its not sustainable and White people governments will take over and NRX will wonder how thay never saw something so obvious coming and wish they had so they would then have some influence on where to go from there but their cuckishness now stains them forever and they are forced to wear yellow feathers for life

    “The hydra that Soros is working in league with possibly assassinated Jörg Haider.” again say hi to alex

    ‘Good’ Democratic Fascism propagated by a commenter on Mr. Land´s website.”- Fascism has been pretty popular idea in the reactosphere but of course that was a few years ago when you were in middle school. Nevertheless pretty sure i was dismissing it along with monarchy Ai spaceships and seasteading as faggotry. As for the democracy part pretty sure like MM im pointing out we dont have democracy we have a distributed mind control system called the cathedral. and og like MM i keep pointing out it wasnt the proles who used that system to institute communism ir was elites.Elites with unproven fag ideas that contradict HBD might add

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Trump still isn´t working for you guys. 🙂

    Might look like it. Maybe because he´s adept at selling things?

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    >> Reactionaries don’t “fight the man”. That’s the antithesis of reaction. A proper reactionary kneels to the king and respects power. Which isn’t to say that if a reactionary sees a legitimate chance to overthrow power he won’t take it. But as Omar says, “Come at the king, you best not miss.” Until then a reactionary certainly doesn’t impotently whine like a beta-boy bitch. Or participate in limp-dicked make-believe pageants designed to fool the masses into thinking they actually hold power, when they don’t. That’s why Pinochet’s a reactionary, but Rush Limbaugh isn’t.

    A reactionary’s a man, and a man takes what he gets, stoically. Participating in ideologies or movements that not only have no chance of ever succeeding is for petulant children. Any ideology that tries to dispense with the plutocracy has no chance of ever succeeding. It directly contradicts the entirety of human history. No civilization ever has existed without a plutocracy. Even Soviet Russia and the Volksdeutsche had their own plutocracies, they were called party members. The most primitive backwards hunter-gatherer tribes have plutocracies, they’re called chiefs. The hippiest of the hippie communes had plutocracy, alpha males that made all the decisions and got all the women. Plutocracies everywhere and always.

    You need to digest reactionary patron saint Moldbug a little better. He advocates voting for Barrack Obama and shutting down the Republican party forever. That’s because he respects power, and advocates submitting to it. Moldbug respects and submits to the ruling elites, and so should you. That’s what proper reactionaries, who are always men even if they’re women, just do.

    Posted on August 18th, 2016 at 4:14 am Reply | Quote
  • Dark Reformation Says:

    Hey Admin. A possiable link for your Chaos Patch:

    https://www.thecipherbrief.com/article/indicators-political-instability-1091

    “The Political Instability Task Force (PITF) is a U.S. government-sponsored group of academics tasked with studying what drives political instability in various countries. PITF created a model that can predict the onset of political instability within two years with a more than 80 percent accuracy.

    This model contains only four variables: regime type, infant mortality, spillover from surrounding states, and state-led discrimination. The first and most important variable, regime type, shows that strong democracies and fully autocratic regimes are much less likely to become politically unstable in the near future. On the other hand, partial or transitioning democracies — especially those marked by factionalism among political elites — are significantly more likely to experience instability. The other three variables do not have as much statistical significance as regime type, but are mild predictors of political instability.

    Surprisingly, dozens of other factors tested by the PITF — economic downturns, demographic pressures, GDP, unemployment, even state abuses of power —have little correlation with the onset of political instability.

    Jack Goldstone, a professor of public policy at George Mason University and a former member of PITF, views the model through the lens of a state’s resilience, or its ability to withstand economic, social, and political problems.

    According to Goldstone, the most important factor in determining a state’s resilience is “elite loyalty and commitment to supporting the existing regime.” Unified and loyal elites, he explains, allow a state to “respond to crises by directing state resources to manage those difficulties, even making short-term sacrifices or compromises to do so.” This explains why PITF’s model found weak and factionalized democracies to be particularly at risk of becoming unstable.”

    What is a “strong democracy”? How does it differ from “autocracy”?

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 18th, 2016 at 12:48 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @Chris B

    neo reactionaries might have amounted to something but they didn’t instead they’re a bunch of millennials that think they finally found a purpose they will get bored in a year and move on to the next metro sexual fad

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    — “…the upper tiers of the U.S. economy are now nothing but networks of special deals with one part of government or another.” — Angelo M. Codevilla
    ▬ “The difference between Codevilla and [Occupy Wallstreet Movement] is the specific minority that they blame. Codevilla blames a political Ruling Class that wants wealth to be distributed politically. OWS likes wealth to be distributed politically, but feels betrayed because the political process doesn’t produce outcomes they like, and wants to blame wealthy people in general, and in particular, wealthy people who don’t pay lip service to the principle that wealth should be distributed politically.” — *
    — “I side with Confucius here. The question should not be, “How much money do you have?” but “Did you aquire it honorably?” *

    * http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/ruling.htm

    [Reply]

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Yeah. They’ll move on mike.

    The worlds moving on as well.

    They may find the world’s moving on won’t favor those who hang back when duty and destiny kick the door in.

    Mind you NeoReaction and Moldbug had an effect. Suddenly the mind control spell was broken for many raised progressive and that’s an undeniable major gain. Not to mention us born and bred right wingers were given insights into the Prog mind we otherwise wouldn’t have had – a positive.

    Now that the world is moving into the realm of action and the right it’s gotten scary and many will hang back on the internet thinking that makes a difference. These thoughts combined with the shocks of the mini collapses of the Progressive state and the perceived mortal threat from our Global Progressive rapacious and insane elites are moving the world’s men into action. The Alt-Right is action and more reactions are to follow. As admin has noted Islam’s wars are their own reaction to the Cathedral.

    Perhaps the Alt-Right is the beginnings of our own reaction and who knows where it will take us except towards fighting to survive.

    Human nature is winning. That’s the end of the Progressives.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Your forum compadre Eldrich doesn´t seem to agree with you.

    In fact, he says “The marginal value of humanity is about to annihilated.

    “There’s international socialism, or there’s national socialism … or you try to cut a deal with Skynet. … That’s basically it.”

    Got any cowboy yehaws against that? Or Mike, any goddamn faggot trannie WW3 nerds curses?

    Or Chris, any royal proclamations?

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    well if it were actually a choice between nat and glob nat soc would certainly be more pleasant and better standard of living It might even make men out of you.

    But Whites can do better w/o the nigger burden. The NRO commie v capitalism doesnt really hold anymore and after what eldrich is saying less so.”Capital” is in bed with the “marxists” so if you blindly support “capital” youre not a socialist youre a CUCK.youre like some NRO fag supporting the cathedral on conservative grounds.

    This is not to say we dont like capitalism because its evolutionary like process efficiently delivers better mousetraps at better prices.But first you have to turn off your NRO triggering and ask yourself is it the process i like or what it does for i like.

    Land seems to answer he would like capitalism for its own sake even if it were to and he hopes its does wipe us monkeys off the face of the universe and simply make better paperclips to sell it it self at better prices to infinity and beyond. I dont know what to say except theres something about people with IQs over 140 thats just dense, and its why we are in this mess

    alternatively – no Im not going to say a little socialism would be ok. Im going to say this global capital elite in bed with marxists isnt even capitalism, Its protectionism in return for cooperation and a cut, a sort of corporatism. Its not just protection from socialist mobs but protection from capitalist competition through regulation among other devices.Its clear the balance of power will continue to shift from “capitalists” to the marxists because the capitalists have no divisions, they had once the hearts and minds of american citizens who they sold out for the short money.

    Real capitalism capitalists can be saved can survive in the world of AI and robot labor.What’s happening now is whites are being plundered and this plunder is being used to set up a cathedral corporatist thousand year reich with both the cucks and commies and nrx cheering it on.The human capital infrastructure military and the rest I talked about above is the private property of the european peoples it is valuable without it you get no AI etc and you have no where to sell you AI manufactured paperclips and counter lands no reason or desire to.This advantage owned by whites should be used to negotiate terms, allowing FB and Apple to extract wealth and leave nothing is no less stupid than letting whites come in and start drilling oil wells in your country because they gave some goat herder $500 bucks in 1921. This is why it is always about superior violence, you dont own what you cant defend. Mark zuck is owned by the Cathedral he operates at their pleasure and in their interests they allow him some billions of fiat to encourage others. The cathedral may or may not own USG time will tell if you allow them to expand they certainly will. this technology you salivate over is their technology if they can defend it they will use it to enslave you they are very very clear about about this. Sure you personally may be free to develop this technology while not jerking off to anime you might even be allowed to have a nice house but you will know you dont own it and you will have to repeatedly say on camera you did not build it as zuck regularly repeats like a fag marionette. so if thats your thing have at it join the cathedral tell yourself its a capitalist singularity.

    Posted on August 18th, 2016 at 8:16 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    @Chris B

    A real man gets down on all fours no doubt.

    [Reply]

    Chris B Reply:

    I thought you were military? Is obeying a commander getting on all fours? Liberal Nrx is a total infestation.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 18th, 2016 at 9:16 pm Reply | Quote
  • (N) G. Eiríksson Says:

    @muchafi

    >>We have final message for “Wealthy Elites”. We know what is wealthy but what is Elites? Elites is making laws protect self and friends, lie and fuck other peoples. Elites is breaking laws, regular peoples go to jail, life ruin, family ruin, but not Elites. Elites is breaking laws, many peoples know Elites guilty, Elites call top friends at law enforcement and government agencies, offer bribes, make promise future handjobs, (but no blowjobs). Elites top friends announce, no law broken, no crime commit. Reporters (not call journalist) make living say write only nice things about Elites, convince dumb cattle, is just politics, everything is awesome, check out our ads and our prostitutes. Then Elites runs for president. Why run for president when already control country like dictatorship?
    >>If electronic data go bye bye where leave Wealthy Elites? Maybe with dumb cattle? “Do you feel in charge?” Wealthy Elites, you send bitcoins, you bid in auction, maybe big advantage for you?

    https://archive.is/rdYpc

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    do something useful like running that through a syntax program to find out if its really broken russian or some renegade neckbeards at NSA having a laugh at you

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 19th, 2016 at 1:16 pm Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @wu-wei

    @ eldrik

    Good post I agree AI is doing better at legal research Im told than interns, medicine cant be far behind, NYC is about to put a couple million niggers [sand and jungle] out of business with autonomous taxis,we could go on and on about this.
    correct this will tighten the feedback. But whats going to be the response? commies will see this as just the ticket now whites are no better than niggers loafers of the world unite.They can finally sell socialism to the wealthy west.
    WNs will see that whites are going to adapt a lot better to this, they will write code for it. design robots. conceive machine law. and sell bespoke craft to the winners. it will become apparent that if we hadn’t imported hundreds of millions of niggers this would be tolerable, maybe enjoyable with a 20 hour work week and stay at home mothers but instead we are now slaves to yesterday’s domestic servants and taxi drivers. This is why the cathedral is accelerating the blackening they want blade runner not elysium.And the globalist [and nrx] dont give a fuck as long as they get capital gains to have their robot competitions but they will care because the commies will no longer be slightly dominant they will run the entire show with nigger enforcers standing over little nrx pajama boy. Now is the time to head off the demographics that will allow them to control how it plays out.

    Nat soc v glob soc ? well obviously between the two the nazis made the intelligent decision or might have if they hadnt decided to expand their nat soc into glob soc owned by them.
    Im not convinced it really need be nat soc I think whites can do better even in the age of primitive AI robotics,Much better. But they cant do it under the white mans burden or compete with the chinese under that burden.NRX or HRX i guess is what i mean needs to get in front of the commies and nazis the clearest path i see is help the nazis first then assume leadership of them

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    ▬ “We have seen how the Hungarian billionaire has contributed significant funds to immigration activist groups, LGBT organizations, the Black Lives Matter movement, and anti-Israel groups among many others.”

    Seems to be some 5GW warfare. Does anyone have an angle on his incentive?

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    well at the risk of sounding like a WN hes a jew not a hungarian and his dad made him learn esperanto so its pretty much payback on whitey

    [Reply]

    Eldrick Reply:

    The abortive Reich yielded 70 years of absolute rule by the Internationale.

    I cannot for the life of me understand the impulse to ride that tiger and start the cycle anew.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Im not a WN or a nazi, first things, national review, new criterion,paleo conservatism and libertarianism is where i came from a decade ago.
    The cathedral must be stopped and soon the only organizer that makes sense and has a chance and would be sustainable is race to be blunt, use a euphemism if it makes you uncomfortable. Race is the weapon being used against us and will be the weapon we turn on them. There is absolutely no reason it has to resemble hitler in any way and besides he was a reaction to the international and overreached and was ultimately defeated because of his overreach and their numerical superiority and he broke the rule dont invade russia. what he accomplished internally was pretty impressive

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 19th, 2016 at 1:23 pm Reply | Quote

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