Quote notes (#101)

Mark Yuray on the disintegration of Atlantis:

The collapse of the U.S. government and balkanization of North America will provide many great opportunities, if not a decent amount of strife. Nationalist and separatist sentiments previously suppressed by the Harvard clerisy will be unleashed. Whole regions will fragment into localized and decentralized rule. The new borders crisscrossing North America will conform much more closely to the natural geography of the continent than they did until now. It is in this moment, when trust in centralized authority is low, desire for autonomy is high, that a neoreactionary “patchwork” of small city-and-otherwise-states can come to exist. The United States’ high deposits of human and natural capital will make for a particularly vibrant new quilt of Singapores and Hong Kongs. As the original forging of the American superpower was largely a quirk of history and political suppression (suppose 1776 failed? or 1812? or 1848? or 1865?), it is unlikely that an emergent patchwork would turn back into the massive state that America is today.

The North American continent would, ideally, become a South America of the Northern Hemisphere in terms of geopolitics — benign and stable — and also an East Asia of the Western Hemisphere in terms of economics and government — technologically advanced and governmentally diverse.

In the spiral search for ‘Neoreactionary consensus’ — will the desirability of this outcome do?

(There is much else of interest in Yuray’s post — read it all.)

August 10, 2014admin 21 Comments »


21 Responses to this entry

  • Mai La Dreapta Says:

    Being South America + East Asia is quite a lovely vision for the future of Our Fair Nation. One can only hope that it works out.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 11:54 am Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    The fusing of NRx, 4GW and the collapse of the state I’m am currently trying to do does not in anyway go against this vision. Neither does my understanding of international geopolitics.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 12:11 pm Reply | Quote
  • Lesser Bull Says:

    Not so enthused. Better than some likely alternatives, but not a good solution in itself.

    China is not a dynamic power historically and its current system of governance is only dynamic because of the superiority of the US. What a one-party state technocracy “wants” is stagnation.

    More importantly, though the US has probably failed in this world historic mission, when space expansion happens it needs to be done by an Atlanticist settler state, not as a series of government-bureacracy forays.


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    China’s drive towards stagnation (in other words, “stability, “peace,” “order”) is precisely why I imagine it would be the best anchor for a future reactionary world geopolitical system.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 1:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kwisatz Haderach Says:

    From his lips to Gnon’s ear-holes.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 1:39 pm Reply | Quote
  • spandrell Says:

    Basic parsimony would tell you that North America would become South America in terms of geopolitics, and South America again in terms of everything else. Which is what happens when you have 100+ million South Americans.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 1:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    If you patchwork Canada, you’re going to get an allied state that controls the entire center of the continent and can split East from West, from Texas up to Alaska, controlling agricultural and energy production. There’s too much in common economically, culturally and socially to expect that region to stay fractured. They may not even notice the collapse, except that their wallets suddenly become 20% fatter.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 2:02 pm Reply | Quote
  • Quote notes (#101) | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 2:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • scientism Says:

    His description of the US as a “bandit-nation” is apt. It seems like there’s a tension between identifying with the Atlantean powers and heeding the call for order. Gunboat diplomacy and order don’t mix. Moreover, liberal democracy looks a lot like Atlantean foreign policy applied to the domestic sphere: stir up trouble among the tribes while you exploit them.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 3:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    First do we really want an authoritarian state? yes we are sick of progressive anarchy but the people who are involved in the DE strike me as more anti than conservative. Id wager the bunch of us would have been blogging the magna carta movment back in the day.
    th\Tere have been huge swaths of America that have worked really well and the mistakes made along the way are kind of obvious if not easily reversed.
    Slavery was bad releasing bio hazardous former slaves into the atmosphere even worse destroying the patchwork union of sovereign states still worse.
    Neo colonialism and neo empire-ism the excesses of the fiat / reserve system without balanced budgets, universal suffrage and non ethnically based immigration including the JQ are others. the progressives took over the USG in short order they now use it take over the world in fact they are simply mopping up but they are hugely vulnerable. china as our leaders or you mad they are not us and though that may be a concept hard for us to ingest trust me they get it. besides their history is not as naively summarized their accomplishments are limited and their reaction to unlimited power tested only occasionally and the results were not encouraging.
    what reactionaries want is the most order to freedom ratio. freedom is sort of subjective the greatest feeling of freedom comes from a state designed with the prejudices of ones ethnics. It will also be the most efficient. yes it is hard to swallow that large red pill or envision how that could come about non barbarically but it could and it will one way or the other best to plan how to be ready how to take over USG and put it to better use. those two great oceans and frozen north and arid desert are not something to be squandered.
    so if in the short run that means supporting Putin or learning from china fine but lets not forget who we are.


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 3:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    reading to the end its a bit better
    only because it goes on to hem in china rather than its opening premise of making china world arbiter.But what else as long as we are playing risk why not imagine all of europe finding its cultural confidence ejecting the muslim invasion retaking eastern europe america pushing the barbarians all the way past the central american bottleneck and all nations stopping foreign aid as well as meddling and let the backwaters revert to hunter gather societies


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 4:10 pm Reply | Quote
  • Zerg Says:

    Hey, kids, why let the Progressives, Nazis, Commies, and Muslims have all of the America-hating, Jew-hating fun? We can get in on it too! America sucks! Jews double-suck! Yay!


    Zerg Reply:

    Forgive me, Mr. Yuray, I just get agitated when things are insufficiently explained — things such as the American “usury” inflicted on Libya etc. (Usury? in Libya? We’re charging someone high interest rates there?) and your “pity” for Germans, Japanese, Iranians, Russians that we Americans have abused (Which Germans, pre-Nazi or Nazi? Which Russians, pre-Commie or Commie? Which Iranians, pre-Jihad or Jihad? Which Japanese, pre-Perry or Imperial or what? What abuse do you have in mind?) You and the Progressives have this in common: America’s so MEAN to all the poor little dopey countries in the world, it’s all America’s fault, of COURSE the poor little morons (Germany, Japan, Russia) are going to join gangs and do drugs and murder people and stuff.) This website is so polite, it so politely offers links, with polite approval, to little Hitlers and Inquisitors, really stupid vulgar people who dress up their stupid anti-American, anti-Jewish vulgarity in pretentious prophetic costumes.


    Mark Yuray Reply:

    Forgive me, Mr. Zerg, I just clearly seem to have ignited some sort of blind rage in yourself that makes it impossible for you to accurately read my piece. Your deliberate misreading of my comments on Libya, comical equivocation of myself with granola-progressivists and unimaginably dubious reading of “anti-Jewish” sentiment into my piece — which, if you would notice, did not mention Jews or Israel even once — indicate to me that this comment of yours does not merit anything more than a censure from myself.


    genghiskhan Reply:

    The Ziocons (neocons) need a strong centralized America to back Israel up on the international stage and will resist any potential balkanization of power as much as they can. Hijacking a patchwork of nations means subverting multiple control hierarchies which is just far more work that hijacking a single country.

    Mark you may have no interest in Israel or the Jews but to them that is very problematic. They will have an interest in you when the things you suggest will subvert their influence!

    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 6:08 pm Reply | Quote
  • Was Enlightened Says:

    This post is awful, I’m sorry. It’s interesting to think about what would happen after the collapse of the current American state, and I do expect that collapse to happen within a decade or two. But assertions such as “The new borders crisscrossing North America will conform much more closely to the natural geography of the continent than they did until now.” … it’s not the year 1000, and the Central American Republic is not going to man defenses on the Mississippi River or the Rocky Mountain passes.

    American patriotism is real and pervasive. It is prevalent in the Inner Party and Outer Party, in flyover country and the large cities. It’s one thing for its citizens to become convinced that the current American political structure is a mistake, a far different thing for them to believe that America itself is an error and should be discarded.

    (Also if you look up “crocodile tears” in the dictionary you may well see a picture of Yuray bemoaning the fate of the poor “victims” of the “D.C. Mafia.” Oh boo hoo hoo, sweet innocent Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan were made unhappy! And Iran and imperial Japan too!)


    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 7:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kwisatz Haderach Says:


    Alright. Serious question time.

    Given that you see that guy as an America-basher that’s drinking too much Haterade:

    1. Do you consider yourself to be a “reactionary” or “neoreactionary”?
    2. If so, then in what substantial way are your views outside of the Venn diagram of ideas offered by Pat Buchanan, Jeff Sessions, Ron Paul, Charles Krauthammer, Nancy Pelosi, and Matthew Yglesias? I am trying to name names of people whose ostensible views define the contours of our Overton window – trying to elicit your belief that falls outside of the Overton window which requires a new label.


    Michael Reply:

    i think to start with i dont think all men are created equal not because hate, because HBD the cornerstone of DENRX [hey i like that] and the antithesis of progressivism.I think evolutionary biology is proving one culture cant be applied to all genotypes with huge implications for multicultural governments IE collapse, so Empire is not a good idea but massive power in defense of ones interests still is. ethnostate seems to be a minimum requirement for freedom yo order and efficiency ratio. I think our race can handle a lot of freedom and little government in fact I think we need to invent an app that replaces government almost entirely without the multi trillion dollar white mans burden and the confidence of culture restored i think we could do that and so much more [singularity ]in mere years.But this isnt you father libertarianism because again HBD so i would not think universal suffrage should again be tried.like some cosmic groundhog day.and I really am suspect that Christianity wont mess things up again, Im not an anti religious atheist but i think moldbug and Rand have a point about its slave mentality HBD would suggest it might be because its an alien gene- I know the latin mass is Beautiful etc and Christianities inseparable influence one west civ just might be time to retire it in favor of whiteness as a social glue yes that sounds hateful to our ears raised on cathedral memes but we need a glue and thats the one we cant escape.
    Also the economics of that crowd many are outright socialists others have accepted some socialist premises, some populists. I think capitalism is HBD writ small and so its part of any DENRX eco gnon mics it cant be denied or t riffled with the price will out. however im sympathetic to voices that question things like banksterism fiat reserve excess, triangulating third world misery against first world labor markets . its important to remember we like free markets because they work and because gnon but a nations economy is to serve its people not gnon so while gnon must be apeased whenever possible the sacrifice should be a non citizen. we must remember our co ethnics on the left side of the bell curve are the progenitors of the next bill gates etc so they are not to be dealt sharply with but rather accorded salt of the earth status so they get the dignity and security they need to procreate. this doesn’t mean welfare at all that’s not good for them or our future elites in their care.In short I think a lot of the issues argued would disapear in an advanced ethno state. simply the ability to shame with cultural confidence fellow ethnics is a powerful human tool with the need for recourse to Chinese style intensity. white countries emptied of non whites would allow a lot more room to individuate without danger with our resources freed for technological advancement once again we could manage smaller population in greater comfort without fear of invasion, europe and US have ready made patchwork and political templates that worked to some rather great extent they need tweaking and greatly shrinking not becoming chinese vassals


    Kwisatz Haderach Reply:

    I suspected that HBD might be Zerg’s answer as well (but let’s give him a chance to answer here). If HBD is the foundation, it would answer some otherwise-puzzling riddles, such as why Steve Sailer is sometimes lumped into the NRX “movement” by non-NRXers.

    Sometimes I think the NRX is simply modern men thinking, out loud, all of the thoughts that are possible to think when one drop the axiom of human equality. These thoughts include the entire recapitulation of past societys’ major schisms: Whig/Tory, Empire/Nation-State, loyalist/patriot, libertarianism/socialism.

    In this way, the NRX is the Bourbaki of political philosophy: all of the senior teachers who could have taught us their various schools and sub disciplines have died before they could pass on the knowledge. So we go back to the literature and work together to teach ourselves from the writings of dead men. As Bourbaki re-founded mathematics on set theory, we are (and ought) to take the opportunity to recapitulate the foundations of our discipline in modern terms.


    Michael Reply:

    i was going to say the difference is hope your examples all have hope we have none.I think this is what admin is always going on about when speaking of horror. Im not sure all DENRXers quite grasp that if HBD as we are coming to know it in places like this is true,then the rest is dross.But you all are so much smarter perhaps I really am out of my depth. Iv said before while mischievous and fun all this facist and throne and alter stuff is nonsense. If this obsession with technology and AI is actually simply implying we might find technical solution to say government I would agree but if they are serious that HAL 9000 is going to rule over us I think it too is absurd.regardless of whether AI comes into being. what is likely and already happening is we are not thinking wisely about the implications of our technology genetic engineering is awesome to contem0plate. .Since the previous post I read mangan had said something on libertarians and nrx which was germane
    re raeding zerg i see the game now lol. its the jq again regarding the ziocon what if instead of everything free we hold israel hostage in return for good behavior and the solution to the theory of everything

    Posted on August 10th, 2014 at 7:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • Aeroguy Says:

    Not impressed, Yuray is a promising student but far from being an instructor.

    Order and stability are exclusively found inside the boarders of functioning states. Order and stability between sovereign states is nonsense, gnon laughs at the idea of that like he does the people who want peace on earth. Order and stability are unnatural, they exist only because of power. To create an empowered global metastate to preserve universal stability and order goes against everything neocameralism stands for even if you were to ironically suggest we call that metastate neocameralist. A global patchwork would be using our success to hang ourselves with, even the patchwork itself must only be a part of the whole, it can be dominant but not universal or uncontested. If anyone wants to make a rightwing UN they’ve missed the whole point. (not directed to Yuray, he avoids this by making different mistakes, but it looked like it could go in that direction)

    “primarily aimed at enforcing a sort of vassalage” you say that like it’s a bad thing, you can hate the players but they’re just playing by the rules of the game, if you don’t like the rules take it up with gnon, he writes them. Or you can study geopolitics and learn about how the game is played. You also conflate the Cathedral and the deep state, there’s plenty of overlap but they’re not the same thing and even have conflicting goals and interests. The deep state is primarily interested in maintaining and concentrating it’s power through the lens of USG while the Cathedral is primarily interested in converting everyone to the furthest leftist edge of progressivism. They work together but eventually they will butt heads. The main difference is how they use power, the deep state wants power for it’s own sake, to accumulate it and concentrate it. The Cathedral are true believers and want power to move the world left and to prove their moral superiority. While they work together in lockstep they’re also both plating how to throw each other under the bus. USG bends to progressives but eventually they will insist on breaking it. The USG will break because progressives never cared about it and the deep state cares more about power itself than the vehicle of power. The deep state, weakened, will continue to exist as they infest the new and remaining power structures.

    “Military, ideological, ethnic and economic differences all matter too, but will always take a secondary place to the peculiarities and particularities of physical space.” Geography merely lays down the pieces and initial conditions, the rest is the game itself. The smaller the world gets, the more man dominates the physical world, the less important the physical aspect becomes.

    “But it latched onto the seafaring civilization” An ideology latched on to an engine of intellectual exchange, trade routes, and meme transmutation, what an unexpected and shocking development.

    “The United States possesses a geopolitically privileged position” Don’t reinvent the wheel, just link to Stratfor.

    “To the South, a dysfunctional third-world backwater” Of the anglosphere’s own making, for the benefit of the anglosphere, and Israel too because joooos (not directed at Yuray but to people who know who they are).

    “its ideological orientation makes it uniquely evil” universalist moral dogmatists can count as evil but they’re not unique they come in a variety of fun flavors like your preferred subject of hate blueberry progressive, but there’s also green apple islamist, black cherry nazi and orange dream catholic (please don’t make me have to add diet (only one calorie of evil!) faux crab flavored faux neocameralism). (After getting to the end, thankfully he at least avoids this pitfall)

    “enforces a global system of usury and military force with a track record so nauseous one hardly dares to begin listing its victims” Gnon would be so proud if not for succumbing to weakness and fucking up the good thing they had going for themselves.

    “cause for pity” Gnon is pitiless, one skull is as good as another for growing his skull throne, which must never stop growing.

    “This exploitative internationalist system that marches forward under American flags and progressivist slogans can only exist because of the United States’ geopolitical power.” Let me fix that for you. International systems can only exist because they have geopolitical power. Much better, and if we want we can simplify it even further. Human systems are defined by power. Beautiful, if I may be so bold as to suggest calling this Gnon’s first law of power, regardless it should be put on plaques and students should be told to recite it.

    “It is in this moment, when trust in centralized authority is low, desire for autonomy is high, that a neoreactionary “patchwork” of small city-and-otherwise-states can come to exist.” Wait, you talked about the collapse of USG, you didn’t mention where the Cathedral is, because it will survive, just as virulent as ever, do you honestly think progressivism is as easy to crush as a single government? People will just spontaneously discover HBD, exclude women from politics, recognize the evils of democracy and everything else that follows from knowing people aren’t equal. With USG out of the way and Russia and China included in the economic fallout of total fiscal collapse requiring a global restructuring of finance, it will be easier than ever for the Cathedral to erect a world government to fill the power vacuum built on top of the new global reserve currency.

    “A benevolent, stable and dominant state will mean a peaceful and stable world order.” You use the word benevolent but you may as well have used words like unicorns rainbows and gumdrops. That stuff is great but it has no place in a discussion on geopolitics. You also say peace, Gnon understands this to not mean hippie peace but the peace of Rome and the anglosphere that helped contribute foreign skulls for his throne. Rome did stop contributing foreign skulls, but throne must continue growing, and it did.

    “This state, of course, should be China” HAHAHAHAHA USG’s going to reach it’s hand from the abyss and drag China down with it, they’re economically tied at the hip, where one goes the other follows. Also their one child policy is going to make them follow Japan’s demographic path, but worse. China can barely take care of China, it’s not ready for the world. Also they’ve been replacing their engineers in government with social scientists, best case scenario, you get to say hi to the Cathedral’s bastard child.

    “The only thing that seems to be able to stave off this take-over is oil money” Um, oil money IS the take-over, the oil dollar is the instrument by which it extracts fealty, something you never explained for how China will shake down tribute and fealty while they’re isolationist. As opposed to imposing power to enforce this global peace and stability Yuray keeps going on about.

    “China is the only peer of Ancient Egypt to have survived to the modern day” Pyramids survived, but last I checked Arabs didn’t build those. Chinese Han are a ethnic group that’s been in the same place for a long time, just like the aborigines in Australia. Their governments have changed, their culture has changed, just like everyone else. I’m not knocking the east, but the west is plenty rich in history too, we’re the heirs of Hammurabi and since when did ethnic competition hurt the gene pool.

    “As the petrodollar gives way to the petroyuan” By writing this without realizing the consequences (I’ll give you a hint, it looks a lot like the stuff he was whining about, meet the new master same as the old master) he admits to not understanding how the oil dollar works. Now I look silly for staying up late responding to someone who doesn’t understand the core defining mechanism of the modern geopolitical order. By his own analysis China doesn’t have the ability to ENFORCE a global petroyuan.


    Posted on August 11th, 2014 at 1:56 pm Reply | Quote

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