Quote notes (#45)

Klint Finley at Tech Crunch suspects something is going on:

Incidentally, Thiel’s Founders Fund is one of the investors in Srinivasan’s company Counsyl. The co-founder of Yarvin’s startup Tlon was one of the first recipients of the Thiel Fellowship. Anissimov was the media director of the Thiel-backed Machine Intelligence Institute (formerly known as the Singularity Institute). It’s enough to make a conspiracy theorist’s head spin, but I’m not actually suggesting that there’s a conspiracy here. I don’t think Peter Thiel is part of some neoreactionary master plot — I don’t even necessarily think he’s a neoreactionary. But you can see that a certain set of ideas are spreading through out the startup scene. Neoreactionary ideas overlap heavily with pickup artistry, seasteading and scientific racism (more on that later), and this larger “caveman cult” has an impact on tech culture, from work environments to the social atmosphere at conferences.

[You might know Yarvin by another name]

No one’s exactly saying it’s a fiendish plot …

ADDED: Scharlach is following developments (here, and here). More from Amos & Gromar, and Anarchopapist.

November 23, 2013admin 75 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Neoreaction

TAGGED WITH : ,

75 Responses to this entry

  • Stirner Says:

    I suspect Klint is engaging in a bit of Taqiyya in that article.

    He knows far too much about the primary texts of neoreaction than he should for a hit and run tech crunch article.

    The fact that Moldbug was an early commenter at 2blowhards is a rather obscure factoid that only is mentioned occasionally in the reactosphere.

    Klint, perhaps your next revelation could be some lip biting concern that Roissy’s site and the adjacent game blogs are functioning as a “dangerous” gateway to the extreme right wing. They offer the means for geeks to get laid more often, with the side effect of making the extreme right wing start looking “cool” and enticing to the non-ideological masses. The horror!

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    I thought the exact same thing when I read the article. Actually, with all the press Return of Kings has been receiving lately (HuffPo, Business Times, and International Business Times), I think it’s only a matter of time before Roissy gets his own hit piece.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 2:55 pm Reply | Quote
  • Handle Says:

    Hey, I want in on the Neoreactionary conspiracy! Come on PT, you can fund a DC satellite cheap!

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 3:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • totalesturns Says:

    It’s interesting that while the media has started to make disapproving noises at the Silicon Valley techno-commercialist cluster, they haven’t yet noticed that neoreaction (and related HBD topics) also attracts high-quality comment by disgruntled insiders — yourself, Foseti, Education Realist, etc. (IMO, our host’s background in continental philosophy makes him a member of this class as well.)

    This may just be because there are fewer of you than there are SV libertarians. But it may also be that when the call is coming from inside the house, it’s harder to pattern-match and dismiss as the man-privileged whitesplaining of those uncool technodorks.

    (And re: Stirner’s comment above, it’s a shame Finley didn’t put your recent “Decent Lives For Decent People” post on his reading list — it’s the best explanation yet of why readers who aren’t Singularity enthusiasts or Hapsburg revanchists ought to take neoreaction seriously.)

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    How about an article on Sailer?

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 pm Reply | Quote
  • totalesturns Says:

    Oops, this was meant to be a reply to Handle above.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 3:59 pm Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    This is the Cathedral’s wet paper napkin stage. If the writer were an NR undercover agent, they couldn’t have done much better.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 4:01 pm Reply | Quote
  • Manjusri Says:

    Klint was a buddy of mine back when I lived in Portland, OR previous to my Shanghai days; whether or not he got turned on to NR through links posted on my Facebook page (before he unfriended me) is anybody’s guess. (And I’m sure that if he’s reading this he knows exactly who I am.) That he’s on the case shouldn’t come as any surprise; he’s been a blogger on all matters fringe and occult (especially those on the West Coast) for years now, and organizes an annual conference (Esozone) on such matters in Portland.

    He’s not an attack dog; it’s not in his nature- even if he rejects an idea, he’ll try hard to be fair and overcome his repugnance to it, as we see here.

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    The plot thickens . . . He’s in on the conspiracy!

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 4:46 pm Reply | Quote
  • Karl Says:

    No one’s exactly saying it’s a fiendish plot …

    Do you guys plot out your plans at one of Thiel’s gay parties featuring shirtless bartenders and servers in assless chaps?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/peter-thiel-party-problem-facebook-investor-inebriated-guests-stuck-elevator-article-1.128098

    Another insider tells us what initially began as a dinner party turned into a “full-on rager” on the fourth floor of 15 Union Square West with about 40 guests and a “not-so-hot shirtless bartender.” (Our initial source says he misses the servers who sport “assless chaps” that Thiel used to have at his soirees).

    Have he given you guys any funding through the American Foundation for Equal Rights or GOProud?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel#Support_for_political_activism

    Thiel, who is openly gay, has supported gay-rights causes such as the American Foundation for Equal Rights and GOProud.

    [Reply]

    Handle Reply:

    I prefer the conspiracy parties where it’s the girls wearing the assless chaps.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 6:04 pm Reply | Quote
  • Thales Says:

    A plot so fiendish not even the conspirators know what they’re doing. It’s a riddle wrapped in an enigma dropped in a puzzle box inside a set of nesting Russian dolls locked in a safe with a forgotten combination in the bowels of a scuttled ship buried at sea.

    We’re through the looking glass here, people…

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 7:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • SOBL1 Says:

    These like minded people who believe in some similar things with overlapping interests and tenuous connections believe in this magical, yet nefarious, Cathedral thing that is made up of like minded people who share an ideology with overlapping interests and direct financial connections. How stupid are these neoreactionaries?

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 7:31 pm Reply | Quote
  • Rasputin's Severed Penis Says:

    Given Molbug’s genius, and now Thiel’s financial backing, is anyone else thinking investing in Tlon might not be such a bad idea?

    Regretfully, I lack the tec background to judge Urbit on it’s own merits. However, I was characteristically impressed by MM’s vision of the ‘future of search’ and don’t doubt that, like Wittgenstein, he has the capacity to be a genius across several fields.

    Anyone know anything about the background of his partner John Burnham? No relation to James Burnham presume? Their names sound kinda familiar with my conspiracy glasses on…

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 9:26 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    Buzz is usually good. Until it’s a Drone.

    ““I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.” – Peter Thiel

    “I completely agreed, and I did something about it. In the name of both I took away both.” – FDR

    I might have taken liberties with the second quote.

    The problem with the King you see, or the Board of Directors is they have you in their power. And your wealth.

    I suspect we still have our rights because of our arms, and that the warrior stock in America comes from the Scotch-Irish, the police stock from the “white ethnics” who’s original model was also Celt [Irish, Catholic, etc].

    We have absolute government but with Liberties intact now. As we weren’t granted a right to private property or a limit on taxes in the Bill of Rights, or a limit on regulations Mr. Thiel and the rest feel the pinch.

    Does anyone think a Monarch [Cathedral Schooled at that] won’t pinch him as well?

    Then there’s those armed peasants….

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 9:33 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotto Says:

    Wow wow wow. This feels like real momentum to me.

    With all due apology to Breitbart or the Daily Caller, unlike those two online publications, TechCrunch is inside the Cathedral awareness horizon. It may be no better than a clickbait-farm, but unlike Breitbart or DC, it doesn’t have an exclusively right-wing readership. We are on the radar now.

    Maybe this article gets ignored and sinks down the into the oblivion of the ephemeral internet churn, but I think it will stick. It will register in the minds of a thousand media hacks, and one day, when deadlines are tight, and the outrage/victimization-mongers are running low on material, a memory register will click, and someone at HuffPo, Slate, or The Atlantic will write their big attack piece. The lure of an authentic ideological enemy to do battle with will be too great. It will cause a firestorm, be the most-read article for days, and draw in the mainstream media.

    The timeline keeps compressing. A month ago, I thought it would take years for neoreaction to breakthrough. A week ago, I thought it would still be several months. Now, it might be a matter of weeks. Get ready people, the klieg lights are swinging our way.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    Sorry that will be disastrous we are not ready for prime time

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    We just hide behind Moldbug, shut our eyes, and cover our ears … then sneak out when the dust clears.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    If they are smart after the billionaires they will come for the philosophers. Best not to shine a light on the little bug in their designer kitchen; when screaming Racist works so well.We should watch them and see what they do.see if they play to the gods or the orchestra

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 10:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    Can someone explain the Moldbug argument for me. Democracy is the problem because a cabal of elites called the Cathedral dominates and controls society? This seems contradictory. It seems like we have less democracy today than we did before. Switzerland is more democratic than the US and is not in as bad a situation as the US.

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    Switzerland has lots of Swiss.

    Re: the argument . . . the People continually vote in the cabal of elites, election after election after election . . .

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    Do the Obama voters have moral agency or do they not? I say they do.

    “The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”

    http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/quote-from-out-of-the-czech

    Hat tip: Natalie Arceneaux

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Superb.

    VXXC Reply:

    Because McCain or Romney would have governed differently?

    McCain has the most public, long running case of Stockholm Syndrome in History.

    Romney – who didn’t want the job* – would also have passed mandated Health Care, just as he did in MASS.

    *I suspected as much summer of 2012 when he vanished, just like Alf Langston in 1936. I wasn’t expecting his son to publicly confirm it, LOL.

    The Delta between the 2012 Ryan Budget and the Dems budget was 3%.

    The Obama voters are actually the 45 million and growing whose income is the public sector plus the 100 million dependents minus some overlap.

    The rest of us are peasants in an empty charade.

    The core of Obama voters are NAMs plus white baby mamas. That’s.It. That’s the Democratic Coalition. That Ron Paul’s donations came from the Military and Govt workers is a sign of hope. Some want Obama and the check, not most. The dependent for life will take any desperate scraps isn’t “democracy”, if you mean the demos rule.

    VXXC Reply:

    Re – Democracy vs Elites, Elections, and the people keep electing the Cabal.

    It’s exclusively Cabal Candidates that have even a remote chance of election. Actually half the people haven’t voted for some time, because they’re not idiots.

    But in any case Democracy stopped governing 80 years ago, that’s the “deal” in New Deal. All the people do is engage in a validation ritual in exchange for scraps.

    [@Ryan ] – Neo-Reaction/DEC – is partly a faction of the Court Party* that wants a Monarch so that the Court [Bureaucracy] doesn’t fall and the Party doesn’t end.

    *[court party vs country party]

    This Monarch – Call Him FreddyGreat – shall rationalize the Court, restore order and sanity, sound finances, ABOVE ALL continue the Rule of The Smart , and Rule Justly over the mob. So that they don’t you know do mob justice to the Court Party. The mob shall get their just deserts and know their place, and it shall all be Downtown Abbey. Dowtown Abbey without the ..er..actual Knights and what actual Nobility did to become “Noble”, or doing what it takes to crush the peasants into bowing and curtsying. Smart people don’t need to…do those things…and it’s against order, truth, beauty….and lots of leisure time to read the Classics.

    To be fair I think it’s somewhat recognized that Downtown Abbey doesn’t just happen.

    What’s not recognized yet is armed peasants [who armed at arms race speed when they realized they were peasants again] won’t just bow, scrape, curtsy.

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    Democracy is a sham. Power of the people is not the problem. That doesn’t exist, it’s the unelected bureaucracy and the academic establishment who sets the agenda.

    But running the democracy sham imposes a lot of dysfunction in the system. The people can’t rule but you still need to have them vote for you, which means running insanely expensive campaigns on bullshit, and promising them goodies which you eventually have to provide.
    And running the democracy sham also makes normal people partisan. Politics stops being this game some fuckers play far away in the capital. In a democracy everybody is supposed to participate, to have an opinion on policy matters they can’t possibly be well informed with.

    Which means that the government needs to create a massive propaganda machinery to keep the people entertained with their political crap, which slowly destroys social capital and creates incentives for people to become more and more partisan (and so gain access to power) instead of actually doing something productive with their lives.

    The democratic system is quite stupid, but it’s the democratic mindset, the democratic religion which is harmful. Plato knew something about it.

    [Reply]

    Contaminated NEET Reply:

    Not to mention, as the Great Moldy One has said, democracy, even the sham democracy we have, incentivized the elites to bring in hordes of meat-puppets to overwhelm their opposition’s votes. This might have some serious consequences down the line.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 23rd, 2013 at 11:04 pm Reply | Quote
  • Jack Crassus Says:

    Slightly off-topic, but while I was googling Yarvin, I came upon this gem and I thought I would share it. Very high verbal IQ on that one.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 12:55 am Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    @Karl
    THE PINK TRIAD Behind Every great Fuhrers behind is a man

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 1:02 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    But doesn’t Moldbug argue that the cabal of elites called the Cathedral are unelected? I think the argument is that the Cathedral members are unelected.

    Also voting in the US is less democratic than in places like Switzerland that have more direct democracy. Voting in the US is mainly for representatives, and that’s republicanism, not direct democracy. And what and whom Americans get to vote for are largely pre-determined and constrained by non-democratic influences.

    I don’t understand your point about Swtizerland having lots of Swiss. Switzerland has lots of Swiss and lots of democracy. The US had lots of Americans, but less democracy, which is why pro-immigration and pro-integration legislation was imposed against popular opinion, and which is why now the US has fewer Americans.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    stick around kid you might learn something though I doubt it and remember what your dad told you about leaving the world a better place than you found it

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @Ryan,

    Ryan self interest is the most powerful lever, except over freaks of duty. And it is Freakish these days. The self interest of many commenters here is absolutely not a restoration of Democracy in America [1830-1933]. Moldbug fears the people Ryan for sound reasons. Moldbug knew where the bodies were buried because House Moldbug put them there. When he realized he’d been lied to his entire life [along with all the rest of us] he reached the point of Unqualified Reservations.

    Now there’s a want the cake and eat it too element of it all, but the critiques of the Cathedral using Machiavellian analysis have been a great service to Humanity.

    But they want a painless reboot. That’s the quandry, and the Rule of the Smart must go on…you know…that quota idiot in the corner office. I could do a better job…and so on.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 1:08 am Reply | Quote
  • Karl Says:

    Seriously though, how reactionary can a sodomite who funds things like the “American Foundation for Equal Rights” or “GOProud” be? Let’s face it, he’s a liberal.

    This is why grouping “techno-commercialists” and liberals with nationalists and “traditionalists” under some ad hoc label like “neoreactionary” makes no sense.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Neoreactionaries should de-group through geopolitical disintegration, rather than through doctrinal controversies that appeal only to the power crazed. Secession first (that should be practical neoreaction in total).

    [Reply]

    Konkvistador Reply:

    I bet most Neoreactionaries oppose slavery, they accept it was abolished because of Cathedral insanity but still don’t want to return. Every single one of us here is on net still a dirty Whig.

    If you ask this question you obviously haven’t seen his relevant writing on Democracy, technological progress, political correctness at Standford and his Girardian analysis of business leadership & Monarchy. His 20 under 20 initiative looks like a direct, if weak, assault on the Cathedral sucking up young brains.

    There is nothing unique about him being basically far right wing but being “leftist” on one particular issue.

    [Reply]

    Konkvistador Reply:

    The Meta of Neoreaction and the Object Level Beliefs it is associated with don’t always correspond. The three branches agree on the meta level analysis of how the Cathedral and Progressivism works. As to where they go after that… 10 000 things under heaven.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 1:19 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    Michael,

    I’m coming from a right-wing point of view. Moldbug’s argument seems contradictory to me.

    It doesn’t seem to make sense to blame democracy. Villages, towns, cities, counties, states, etc. can’t vote on anything significant and substantial. Voting is reduced to picking among a few candidates that have been predetermined by the political parties, campaign contributors, etc.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    The American voters were given a choice between bad and worse, and they enthusiastically chose worse. Why? Because (1) it’s fun to make bullshit accusations of “racism” against people you dislike, (2) self-exculpatory paranoia on the part of women and minorities, and (3) free stuff! It’s true that the political elites are screwed up, and that democracy inevitably depends on high-functioning political elites, but still, you can’t let the voters off the hook for all of this. They consistently crucify any politician who proposes to reform Social Security.

    Also, I’m not convinced that US elections are significantly less democratic than European ones. Daniel Hannan argued in _The New Road to Serfdom_ that the use of primary elections in the US makes the US more democratic that the UK, not less. Are Swiss elections dramatically more democratic that UK ones?

    If we’re going to have democracy, then at some point the voters are going to have to take responsibility for their voting patterns.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Agree.

    However the vote is meaningless at the National Level.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 1:47 am Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    I assume he means the Swiss are white .the politicians are buying votes with other peoples money, they pander to the lowest common denominator, this commons problem increases until total anarchy. But you are right other ideas leave much to be desired

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    It’s not just that the Swiss are white. It’s that they’re all white and they all buy into being white Swiss together.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 2:24 am Reply | Quote
  • Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Says:

    Moldbug’s Machiavellian analysis of democracy does seem to have some difficulties when it comes to thinking about democracy in the United States, simply because the United States can only barely be described as any kind of functioning democracy (or republic).

    Sometimes the electorate elects an Obama, but that’s not really the story of how we got to where we are today.

    Most of this stuff was never on the ballet and people often voted for what were supposed to be “the right” candidates only to learn that there was no right candidate on the ballet. It would have been extremely difficult for the electorate to have averted disaster using the tools that were offered to them by the American political system. You’d have needed a super human electorate.

    Of course, the same thing happened in a lot of other democracies, even in ones with more than two parties…

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    Ballot. Ballet. Ballot.

    [Reply]

    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    Yes. Embarrassing.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Nonsense. Ballet. It’s God’s hand guiding his fingers..

    Ballet: a kind of dancing that is performed on a stage and that uses dance, music, costumes, and scenery to tell a story.

    1. A classical dance form characterized by grace and precision of movement and by elaborate formal gestures, steps, and poses.
    2. A theatrical presentation of group or solo dancing to a musical accompaniment, usually with costume and scenic effects, conveying a story or theme.
    3. A musical composition written or used for this dance form.
    4. A company or group that performs ballet.

    [French, from Italian balletto, diminutive of ballo, dance, from ballare, to dance; see ballerina.]

    Rahm Emmanuel.

    When God speaks, LISTEN.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 2:59 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    Peter Taylor,

    It’s still the case that villages, towns, cities, counties, states, etc. can’t vote on anything significant and substantial, and that voting is reduced to picking among a few candidates that have been predetermined by the political parties, campaign contributors, etc. It doesn’t seem to make sense to blame democracy here and blame voters for being unable to vote for anything significant in their villages, towns, cities, counties, states, etc. and for being restricted to “bad and worse” choices put up for them by political parties, campaign donors, etc.

    Voters in California voted to prohibit illegal aliens from using public services in a referendum in 1994. It was overturned by a federal court:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_187

    I think you would agree that the voters in California voted responsibly. This democratic result was overturned by non-democratic means. I don’t see how you can blame democracy here.

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    That’s actually a good point and worth discussing at greater length. “Progressive” California also recently voted against gay marriage . . .

    Re: Gay Peter Thiel . . . This is where the rubber meets the road. If reactionaries can’t call him an ally because he likes teh cock even though he is reactionary in thought, word, and deed, then maybe the divides in the reacto-sphere run deeper than I thought.

    And remember, his activism seems mostly targeted against Prop 8, which honestly, I was against, too, because it BARRED gay marriage, which is quite different from voting IN FAVOR OF a law that LEGALIZES and RECOGNIZES gay marriage. Right-wing libertarianism would theoretically not want gay marriage either promoted or barred by the state but would leave it up to religious competition to fight that battle.

    [Reply]

    Nick B. Steves Reply:

    A reactionary would realize the social good of traditional marriage independent of his personal liking of teh cockas and abjure not most of the innovations in marriage over the past 50-500 years. If Peter Thiel is on board with that then this Traditionalist is okay with him.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    @Ryan

    Some of the mess we’re in we can blame on the elites, Some of it we can’t. I’ll try to be more careful to avoid presenting this as a false dilemma.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 3:26 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    Michael,

    But the Swiss also have more direct democracy. Americans didn’t vote to have a more diverse society.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:13 am Reply | Quote
  • Stirner Says:

    @Michael

    The Swiss are the Swiss. They are very anomalous. Four different languages spoken in the country, they didn’t give women the vote until the early 70’s, etc. Probably much of their social cohesion is due to the fact that all Swiss men have to a stint of military service, and then serve in the equivalent of their national guard until they are in their 40’s. That does one hell of a lot for forging a national identity.

    Another neat feature of Swiss democracy – a very weak executive, and veto power over legislation is held by the public in the form of ballot referendum. It is rather trivial for the public to undo legislative over-reach and send them back to the drafting board. They have a ratchet, but the ratchet seems to work relatively slowly.

    It works for the Swiss pretty well, but I doubt it would export well to other cultures.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:27 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    Sometimes the electorate elects an Obama, but that’s not really the story of how we got to where we are today.

    Well it’s not even the story of how we got Obama in the first place. He was not some pure grassroots figure like Ron Paul was. Obama was sponsored and elevated by the billionaire Crown and Pritzker families of Chicago. Then other oligarchs and the media and other elites promoted him. His rise to the national stage was as undemocratic as you can get.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:39 am Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    It’s not just that the Swiss are white. It’s that they’re all white and they all buy into being white Swiss together.

    Actually the Swiss communes and cantons have a lot of independence and autonomy and power. So it’s not the case that the Swiss are simply all “into being white Swiss together” in the sense of a highly centralized state.

    Also, this issue seems irrelevant here, since it’s not the case that the neoreactionaries who are critical of democracy are so because they like multiculturalism and diversity and want them to work at all costs. The neoreactionaries who are against democracy and want something like monarchy either want monarchy because they believe it will better establish or maintain a non-diverse society or just want monarchy and a non-diverse society.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    The Swiss probably because of strict immigration and only recent introduction of womens suffrage and of course genetic shaping of a isolated mountain people are culturally confident. so they have a reverse cathedral as autonomous as their cantons are they vote Swiss interests. what neo reaction is saying is that despite that because they are a democracy they are vulnerable to the cathedral virus.which emanates a penumbra from the USG I think many examples of formerly cohesive societies brought to ruin the Scottish come to mind once the engineers of the world and a euphemism for parsimony are now a basket case of welfare.
    Its impossible to say what neo reaction wants its quite amazing they even deign to stay under one flag they are so disparate they are united only by the certainty that something is extremely wrong.As a former conservative and libertarian I dont think they are so unique as they believe but many came to libertarianism recently from the liberal side so dark thoughts seem naughty to them and they have a cult soon I think they will be told they are just evil racist conservatives end of story also they will have a huge problem with the religious side of the triangle as i discussed in quote note 44.
    so generally many think the revelations of HBD are doom to multiculturalism which they find confirmation in the world around them many are racist but not haters thus race realists and some of the most prominent [steve sailor] think democracy can work if its done properly.I think the monarchy and fascism talk is simple sophistry what they are really saying is democracy has proved itself inherently leftist as Tocqueville predicted and as Peter Theil concurred recently, some say it, and even socialism would work in a country like Switzerland. others dont think pigs will develop wings anytime soon so are talking exit but of course theres no where to go, and so we go darker and darker. we are not a cheerful lot except a sort of gallows humour.So yes some think if its to be a multicultural society then some form of control that eliminates the spoils system and acts rationally is needed. a sort of CEO king. Which id it sounds libertarian with a dash of vikings riding wolves you would be right alt right

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:55 am Reply | Quote
  • Karl Says:

    @Scharlach

    I was being a bit facetious about Thiel.

    To be serious though, he certainly is more liberally inclined on certain issues than many of the various “nationalists” and “traditionalists.” I don’t think his support for the American Foundation for Equal Rights or for GOProud can be spun as reactionary no matter how hard one tries. The American Foundation for Equal Rights was formed in response to Prop 8 to fight for “marriage equality.”

    Polities banning and legalizing things is perfectly in line with reactionary politics. If you’re worried about things you like and don’t like being banned or legalized, leaving it up to “religious competition” is probably the last thing you want since religion, especially dominant religions that win such competitions, have a tendency to assert for themselves a meta-political, hegemonic authority over all polities and all potential or possible polities. A polity deciding for itself what to ban and legalize has no bearing on what another polity or what future seastead polity X wants to ban and legalize.

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    Word. Let us see how reactionary Thiel turns out to be over time. Color me sceptic

    [Reply]

    Scharlach Reply:

    Fair enough, Karl. I guess I should have said that if Thiel is progressive on this one issue or maybe a few others, I still think his larger political philosophy tends toward reaction. No right-thinker writes in a public forum that democracy and freedom are incompatible. But then, I guess the gay marriage thing just doesn’t register as terribly important to me, so I’m willing to overlook it in Thiel.

    As Spandrell says, time will tell . . .

    [Reply]

    Konkvistador Reply:

    Same here. Legal changes have already gutted the institution into a parody of itself in the past 150 years and people are worried about two dudes joining in on the mockery.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 7:47 am Reply | Quote
  • henrymarsau Says:

    A possibly offtopic question on neoreaction:
    Let’s say I agree with all your criticisms of the progressive movement and the Cathedral, but I disagree with your prescribed motivation, or the raison d’etre of such ideologies. The neoreaction says that the Cathedral is engaged in constant power grabbing and memetic expansion for its own sake, while to me it seems that progressivism is designed in order to make more money for the corporations, to increase profits so to say. This happened because at some point in history the capitalists became stronger than the government. And in the prosperous non-progressive countries (e.g. Singapore), the government has been on top – putting the social benefit over corporate profits.
    Is there such a general idea in the multitude of neoreactionary criticisms? Or maybe it belongs to some other way of thinking, some kind of anti-progressive “socialism”? Would appreciate a nod in a general direction of such blogs.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Much to my dismay, radical anti-capitalism is probably a dominant tendency in the ‘reactosphere’ — if you run through my blogroll, you’ll come across plenty of it. If you really want the hot sauce (pretty much Left-Marxism with some of the most embarrassing stupidity clipped out) you could go straight to a European New Right thinker, like Benoist. Personally, I’d be in the trenches with the powers-that-be if I thought that was the alternative.

    [Reply]

    spandrell Reply:

    To the extent that corporations are all in the business of promoting diversity, LGBT rights, paid speeches by Malcolm Gladwell, charity donations or female participation for its own sake, it looks obvious corporations aren’t about capitalism. They are the money making arm of the Cathedral, following progressive dictates and making zillions thanks to state support.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Hard to argue with that.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    Id say zillions is a good argument,and a better understanding is capital and cathedral have an understanding. which i expand below. and on QN #44

    Mike Reply:

    The cathedral hates capitalism and hates markets, but it does like anything that it can use to further the cathedral’s moronic causes. There’s also the small matter that you can’t run a functioning economy without markets and capital accumulation.

    Hence the cathedral’s love-hate (maybe tolerate-hate is more accurate) relationship with markets and capitalism.

    [Reply]

    Hawk Spitui Reply:

    To some extent, I think you can credit corporate support of progressive goals to fear. Given that they’re a favorite target of progressives, they bend over backwards to demonstrate that they’re really on the side of the angels. It’s a cost of doing business.

    I’d note that most of the tech industry, until the late 80’s/early 90’s, was largely apolitical until government became interested in them. That’s when they started hiring lobbyists and supporting Worthy Causes.

    Left alone, I suspect they’d largely return their attention to simply making money.

    [Reply]

    Michael Reply:

    Id say my impression was the reacts tend to be capitalists but not crony capitalists and capitalists that understand that capitalism is not a good in itself but good because it creates good for citizens albeit with the understanding of the limitations of tweaking it.Id say our HBD realism has led many former Ayn Randians to understand humans dont always act rationally, and this decades financial debacles have made us wary of fiat money fractional reserve banking. And I dont think ts escaped our notice that the capitalist are capitulating or being give a beating like never before.Certainly there is a strain of national socialism around here.
    as for the other side I think what happened was starting about the sixties capitalists and the wealthy in general wanted a status that couldn’t readily be bought as Tom Wolfe called it “radical chic” And they with the other elites in academia and government who were already pretty radical started out bidding each other for rad status creating a third group of elites the race hustlers poverty pimps bra burners and cocksuckers environmentalists etc who quickly upped the anti and formed well the cathedral. membership became costlier as non membership became unthinkable but a sliding scale was instituted.While this was going on actual communism was failing spectacularly around the world and none of these elites really wanted privation so a system of indulgences was instituted. Capitalists being capitalists saw opportunity and peril in this and have navigated it all rather cleverly they give tax deductible donations as they always did but now to african dance troops, they throw some minorities into their ads and pay lip service to environmentalism its good business because the bourgeoisie emulate the elite emulating their solidarity with prols and sub prols. the mini memes change and Madison avenue is on the list serve with the whole crew. so yeah they make money on organics and wind turbines hiphop everythings got flava now.
    to me the 700 trillion dollar question is do they know they are on he verge of losing control its not a game to the mau maus soon they will outvote us and outnumber us and through AA are already seizing control of things like army police courts yeah and the white house and AGs office, its happening all throught the western world where do these elites think they are going to hide do they seriously think the minorities are going to let them run things because they good whites- not going to happen

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 10:17 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    [Michael they can’t run things. Unless you count looting, shitting, fucking, robbing, punching, burning as running things]

    [Neither can USG.]

    I think re: democracy ..we agree that Cathedral and USG are the problem, this is debate on the people’s degree of guilt and hence trustworthy-ness.

    Well, if we can trust a bunch of former Progs and Libertarians beginning with Moldbug, we can give the people a shot.

    Oh, they’re armed. There’s that too.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:24 pm Reply | Quote
  • Michael Says:

    Tru Dat mah Dark brotha but HBD tells us africans have the highest self esteem in the world making them not very introspective and gullible to the poverty and racism meme. so while we know quite well they cant, it doesnt mean they wont take power as obama likes to say ” I got this”
    I would disagree that todays people are worse I see todays people reading Seneca and Marcus Aurelius Again HBD tells us peoples be people. So to the extent they are maleable they are re maleable. but reverting to monarchy just sets it all in motion again, so while i hope moldie is being sophmoric about monarchy and while i approve his attempt at a libertarian way i think we have lots of thinking to do. Yes we are armed and have many lower receiver blanks stashed, And while i do think thgere is a point where iuf we dont go hot we go home and even that it may have passed.I think the neoreacts have a point that turning the elite would be better. what i would like to see done here is
    A detailed analysis of if and how a hot war might be won and at what exact point we cross a point of mission failure diminishing return.And I dont just mean AR15s I mean infiltration hacking propaganda false flags the works we are smart they took over this way they are now vulnerable the same way they cnt vett evrything and one
    A reduction of reaction to a plan of action lets see what we are working for and who would be left once choices had to be made.
    The same for turning the elites – lets get moving but lets get ahead of it already they are moving against us but i have yet to see how we planned to counter this inevitability. The cathedral is not self consistent and its factious it can be worked it can be derided and a little street theatre i insist can be helpful. the whole leviathan slows when immigration is stopped thats not had to game against them using their own memes

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 4:54 pm Reply | Quote
  • Puzzle Pirate (@PuzzlePirate) Says:

    Democracy is the rule of the demons.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 24th, 2013 at 6:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ryan Says:

    The Swiss recently voted in national referendums to automatically deport foreign criminals and to ban minarets on mosques:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/europe/29iht-swiss.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/world/europe/30swiss.html

    Americans don’t have the chance to directly vote for things like this. If they did, a lot of leftist policies would never have been implemented or would be overturned.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 25th, 2013 at 5:15 am Reply | Quote
  • Hawk Spitui Says:

    Apparently the article has had some effect: Neoreaction has come to Slashdot…

    http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/11/25/132219/geeks-for-monarchy-the-rise-of-the-neoreactionaries

    500+ comments, and a lot of them aren’t even derogatory.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Prime time, ready or not. (For Moldbug, it’s going to be testing.)

    [Reply]

    Karl F. Boetel Reply:

    I have glanced at the top comments. They appear to be, without exception, mind-bogglingly stupid and arrogant, not to mention full of Whig thuggery. I think these people may in fact deserve what’s coming to them — particularly if it comes in the form of Vibrant Diversity.

    [Reply]

    Diogenes Reply:

    “I bet that women and minorities are underrepresented in this movement to turn the calendar back.”

    Heh.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 26th, 2013 at 3:14 am Reply | Quote
  • Pyramid News Scheme › Off the center of the edge of the world Says:

    […] chatter (no, not “chatter,” heavy matter but yet… chatter) from the neoreactionaries as they anticipate with mixed thoughts and feelings their moment in the “klieg lights.” Techcrunch’s Geeks for […]

    Posted on November 29th, 2013 at 11:59 pm Reply | Quote

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