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	<title>Comments on: Quote notes (#50)</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2013 06:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No need to beat yourself up -- it&#039;s a fascinating topic, and some things are just difficult. I could use some further clarification on this line of criticism, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need to beat yourself up &#8212; it&#8217;s a fascinating topic, and some things are just difficult. I could use some further clarification on this line of criticism, though.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Igitur</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Igitur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2013 04:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently my communication skills are at a low point. I&#039;d like point blame the blame at current life circumstances and stresses, but this is a better (instinctually more meritocratic) forum. Not in my defense, my english may be sub-par simply because I&#039;ve never lived anywhere where english was a common everyday language.

What I meant was precisely the opposite: that moldbugged cladistics is overtly finalistic (the whys) at the expense of the mechanics (the hows). The very structure of cladistics induces that to an end -- it _is_ a directed acyclic graph --but moldbugged cladistics have a distinct linnaean flavor to them as well. I could be wrong. UR is one of the blogs I stopped reading in the wake of the financial meltdown of late 2008 -- i.e. prior to the Cathedral and such. 

Present Moldbug is still too much of a system for me to take, I guess. I was taught from much too young to &quot;make rhizome, not trees, never plant!&quot;. But there are _fangs_ in the  Dark Enlightenment that are worth following.  (I think we can conclude that Radish is not a werewolf!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently my communication skills are at a low point. I&#8217;d like point blame the blame at current life circumstances and stresses, but this is a better (instinctually more meritocratic) forum. Not in my defense, my english may be sub-par simply because I&#8217;ve never lived anywhere where english was a common everyday language.</p>
<p>What I meant was precisely the opposite: that moldbugged cladistics is overtly finalistic (the whys) at the expense of the mechanics (the hows). The very structure of cladistics induces that to an end &#8212; it _is_ a directed acyclic graph &#8211;but moldbugged cladistics have a distinct linnaean flavor to them as well. I could be wrong. UR is one of the blogs I stopped reading in the wake of the financial meltdown of late 2008 &#8212; i.e. prior to the Cathedral and such. </p>
<p>Present Moldbug is still too much of a system for me to take, I guess. I was taught from much too young to &#8220;make rhizome, not trees, never plant!&#8221;. But there are _fangs_ in the  Dark Enlightenment that are worth following.  (I think we can conclude that Radish is not a werewolf!)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2013 03:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Insofar as cladistics picks up real blocks of inheritance, doesn&#039;t it include the &#039;how&#039; to some extent? Modern biology claims to have dispensed entirely with &#039;why&#039;, but it&#039;s more cladistic than ever.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Insofar as cladistics picks up real blocks of inheritance, doesn&#8217;t it include the &#8216;how&#8217; to some extent? Modern biology claims to have dispensed entirely with &#8216;why&#8217;, but it&#8217;s more cladistic than ever.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Igitur</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Igitur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 01:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand now how middle-of-the-road (generally speaking; he probably listens to Chicago as he writes) Stross is through his blog and even some personal correspondence. 

I think there&#039;s something to cheer about some notion of omnicomputationalism to the tune of &quot;teach dumb matter&quot;. I&#039;m thinking, for example, of Manuel de Landa&#039;s homilies on how rivers are sorting machines on pebbles and how soap bubbles are conditional energy minimizers. And I&#039;m trying to stay this side of Gozer, not appealing to ideas of digital physics and mathematical realism and such; Stephenson&#039;s &quot;right pinky of God&quot; that types fundamental constants into a command line and instantiates an universe is fundamentally Gozerian, but the notion that local structure-formation implies morphogenesis-computation requires only some simple monism, some kind of omnia-ex-machina.

Cladistics à la Moldbug misses this. Not only race, but the space race, the grand historical curve of China; all of this is thought of as distinctly finalistic, missing the hows for the whys. Do whys even exist? (Isn&#039;t the lesswrongian basilisk a pathological outcome of a post-historical speculative idealism of the whys?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand now how middle-of-the-road (generally speaking; he probably listens to Chicago as he writes) Stross is through his blog and even some personal correspondence. </p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s something to cheer about some notion of omnicomputationalism to the tune of &#8220;teach dumb matter&#8221;. I&#8217;m thinking, for example, of Manuel de Landa&#8217;s homilies on how rivers are sorting machines on pebbles and how soap bubbles are conditional energy minimizers. And I&#8217;m trying to stay this side of Gozer, not appealing to ideas of digital physics and mathematical realism and such; Stephenson&#8217;s &#8220;right pinky of God&#8221; that types fundamental constants into a command line and instantiates an universe is fundamentally Gozerian, but the notion that local structure-formation implies morphogenesis-computation requires only some simple monism, some kind of omnia-ex-machina.</p>
<p>Cladistics à la Moldbug misses this. Not only race, but the space race, the grand historical curve of China; all of this is thought of as distinctly finalistic, missing the hows for the whys. Do whys even exist? (Isn&#8217;t the lesswrongian basilisk a pathological outcome of a post-historical speculative idealism of the whys?)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 01:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MORE]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MORE</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 01:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can live with Space King.  As long as he&#039;s American.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can live with Space King.  As long as he&#8217;s American.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 01:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like that side of Stross, but unfortunately it&#039;s intended as parody (as his &#039;first order&#039; blogging makes clear).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that side of Stross, but unfortunately it&#8217;s intended as parody (as his &#8216;first order&#8217; blogging makes clear).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Dec 2013 01:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with VXXC -- this is great stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with VXXC &#8212; this is great stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Thales</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thales]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Indeed, this is all true. QFE:

&quot;The biggest challenge is, of course, getting the money and engineering/science expertise together to solve those problems. On that front we’re in a race between civilizational disintegration and some nation or other powerful group recognizing that for a paltry few trillion in investment they can own the future Solar Empire.&quot;

Score one more for Monarchy or facsimile thereof.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, this is all true. QFE:</p>
<p>&#8220;The biggest challenge is, of course, getting the money and engineering/science expertise together to solve those problems. On that front we’re in a race between civilizational disintegration and some nation or other powerful group recognizing that for a paltry few trillion in investment they can own the future Solar Empire.&#8221;</p>
<p>Score one more for Monarchy or facsimile thereof.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-50/#comment-31305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1789#comment-31305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All who agree please assemble your own bio-mass recoverters and march in.

You first.  

Right behind you. Honest Injun. 

There is a faction of AI etc that is right out of Gozer Worshippers.  Even the actual Alistair Crowley was benevolent by comparison.   Gozer worship in Ghostbusters was in fact auto-biographical.  

http://takimag.com/article/comedy_for_the_devil_kathy_shaidle/#axzz2nq23JsBM]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All who agree please assemble your own bio-mass recoverters and march in.</p>
<p>You first.  </p>
<p>Right behind you. Honest Injun. </p>
<p>There is a faction of AI etc that is right out of Gozer Worshippers.  Even the actual Alistair Crowley was benevolent by comparison.   Gozer worship in Ghostbusters was in fact auto-biographical.  </p>
<p><a href="http://takimag.com/article/comedy_for_the_devil_kathy_shaidle/#axzz2nq23JsBM" rel="nofollow">http://takimag.com/article/comedy_for_the_devil_kathy_shaidle/#axzz2nq23JsBM</a></p>
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