Quote notes (#57)

From Henry Dampier’s ‘Shooting an Elephant’:

Destroying the GOP is the best way to undermine support for democracy on the right. The reason for this is that, without hope for electoral success, the rank and file of the right will be forced to abandon their hopes for electoral redemption. When the typical “Joe Plumber” recognizes that it’s fruitless to go to the polls or to send money to their favorite politician, the GOP will fold in more states, which cedes to progressives the right to ruin more towns and cities in the service of their ideological goals.

This would limit the available options of the right wing population to either accept destruction or secede. Cutting off the option of winning elections, and making it obvious that it’s no longer possible to win elections, is key to achieving this goal.

(via @Nick_B_Steves)

The GOP is the Cathedral’s first aid kit. Taking it out of the equation makes perfect sense.

February 4, 2014admin 37 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Democracy

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37 Responses to this entry

  • Igitur Says:

    You’re assuming that there’s a “right-wing population” that stays so in the absence of a whole GOP machine — the Outer Party, possibly, but still enmeshed with the “left-wing” part of the Cathedral.

    Maybe the instincts of gun-totin’ cousin-marryin’ west-virginians can be trusted, but would you trust the populace who votes for Jean-Marie Le Pen to stay diehard through a similar extinction event?

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Even in the absence of a resilient right-wing population, when the Cathedral is stripped of its craziness-compensator it has to go over the cliff (even faster).

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    “Things have to get worse before they get better”. Sounds like a plan.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Things will get worse before they get better. The only variable is speed.

    Kevin C. Reply:

    “it has to go over the cliff’

    And take industrial civilization with it, beyond any hope of rebuilding. Things will get worse… and that’s it. There we be no rebuilding afterwards, because there won’t be enough left to rebuild.

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    That sounds more realistic. Giving long-run constraints on the energy-intensity of our present civilization, for example.

    Although in this case we might want to slow down collapse?

    Nyk Reply:

    “You’re assuming that there’s a “right-wing population” that stays so in the absence of a whole GOP machine ”

    In light of Jonathan Haidt’s work on the psychological differences (and their undoubtedly genetic underpinnings) between liberals and conservatives, I would say that is a reasonable assumption. Haidt on the subject :

    “Your genes make your brain and your brain has a certain structure and that structure is going to really make some people drawn to novelty, new ideas, change, diversity,” Haidt said. “Other people are going to prefer things that are sort of predictable, controllable, more safe. As these kids grow up, they are going to be exposed to all kinds of ideas and social groups. And maybe one group is more radical or obnoxious to authority and that seems really cool to the first kid but is sort of disturbing to the second kid. ”
    ( http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/is-a-conservative-or-liberal-born-or-made/ )

    As for Le Pen, the situation is rather different in France than what you seem to suggest. The Front National is basically the reactionary party (minus the part where they bring back the Bourbons). The UMP is the “moderate” “conservative” party in France, their equivalent to the GOP. Conservative French disillusioned with Sarkozy and the UMP have been flocking to the Front National.

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    Lesser Bull Reply:

    A more institution-savvy plan is to capture the GOP. Since the failure mode is destroying the GOP, it’s a plan with more potential.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Destroy the GOP. It is an enemy Counter-Intelligence Operation; the captured opposition.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 6:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • futuremurder Says:

    This acts as if the Joe “fucking” Plumbers aren’t part of the problem to begin with. If the electorate is stupid it is stupid to its core.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    The Plumber — He’s actually probably smarter than Obama. Who’s actual intelligence is classified higher than NSA’s Crown Jewel secrets. Now if Dread Pirate Snowden could get us Obama’s actual grades at school, that would justify a pardon.

    But the electorate has only been in a consultative position for 80 years in any case, they decide nothing.

    And now of course as we’re in bankruptcy settlement masquerading as politics the mask has been torn off.

    Obama wasn’t annointed by Plumbers, he was annointed by the smart set. The same ravaging degenerates who’ve bought down civilization into pornocracy. But they do so well in school.

    That will be enough of rule of the smart, thank you. Apparently you’re also repulsive pyschopaths.

    [Reply]

    futuremurder Reply:

    This is starting to feel a little “common man”-philia for my taste. The common man (yes, even the white common man) is motivated by a basic misperception of the world, which is to say, that they are ignorant. It is the basic constitutive element of their being. Anything less than this is to fall prey to a basic sentimentalism for the horde. Part of the problem maybe that NR/DE have not yet moved its critique beyond the specific pathological version of democracy (i.e. parliamentarianism) to a greater critique of democracy in its most generalized form. The problem is not with the politicians having to buy the votes of the citizenry but with the citizenry itself. Neoreaction must be look out for a new people or must be willing to create them.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 7:23 pm Reply | Quote
  • Igitur Says:

    @admin

    Things will get worse before they get better. The only variable is speed.

    1. Things will be better if we get to the worse faster?
    2. Things will be better if we get through the worst faster?
    3. Things will only be sufficiently good if we get to the bad part first?

    It does sound at times like you’re advocating the collapse-plan that left-accelerationists are so quick to disavow (because it’s such a quick way to dismiss them). Let the system run against its natural limits, then reap the fruits of chaos.

    But then, as fictional nobleman Baelish says — chaos is a ladder.

    [Reply]

    Orthodox Reply:

    You can throw out all the politics and cultural opinion, and simply from the economic/financial viewpoint, the system is headed for collapse with a probability approaching 1 (over/under in the early 2030s)as each year passes with no major reforms. So the sooner the right wakes up and stops supporting the GOP is the sooner they begin thinking seriously about solving the coming crisis. If the right goes into the chaos with the GOP as its leader, they will be devoured by the left in the ensuing chaos.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 8:37 pm Reply | Quote
  • Handle Says:

    Peter Hitchens has been saying this about the British ‘Conservatives’ for a few years now.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 9:11 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:

    Lesser Bull– capture of parties is irrelevant if the bureaucracy remains in the saddle. Reagan couldn’t abolish the Dept of Education at the height of the GOP’s Indian Summer. Fugit-about-it. Admin is right– bye bye GOP.

    GOP as Cathedral’s first aid kit. THIS is why I love this blog!

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Exactly. There’s no point in elections, regrettably. Not now. The Democrats are only marginally more the enemy than the GOP. The actual constituientcy of both is government/elites aka the Cathedral.

    [Reply]

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    If capturing the party is irrelevant because the party is irrelevant, then destroying it is irrelevant too.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    NO. Destroying an enemy counter-intelligence operation that is misleading the people into destruction by offering false hope is not irrelevant.

    In any case if the Tea Party capture utterly failed and it now appears it has, then this is clearly a hopeless course. No capture. Kill.

    [Reply]

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Again, if the bureaucracy rules anyway, false hope is pointless.

    If you really think that the hearts and minds of the conservative mass is useful, and if you think that the GOP must be destroyed, the best way to accomplish it probably isn’t criticizing it as useless from an outsider with the avowed perspective of making it go away. The best way is from the inside. Civil war.

    admin Reply:

    Only the Tea Party could do that — will it?

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 9:46 pm Reply | Quote
  • tryptophan Says:

    “This would limit the available options of the right wing population to either accept destruction or secede.”

    I suspect a coup is more likely in this kind of scenario, to secede requires defeat of cathedral military forces, a coup needs the same abilities but gives the executors more power

    [Reply]

    Henry Dampier Reply:

    “to secede requires defeat of cathedral military forces”

    What’s the matter with deterrence?

    [Reply]

    Drfitforge Reply:

    Nuclear weapons are not simple to come by.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 10:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    @Admin,

    “The GOP is the Cathedral’s first aid kit. Taking it out of the equation makes perfect sense.”

    Yes. An Electoral Coalition of God, the Infernal, and the Founders risen at God’s Almighty Hand could not save us through elections for all of them have to contend with Free Will. Given the Finances the Cathedral cannot back out if it wants to – and it doesn’t.

    However…Detroit did not create more conservatives and the United States of Detroit will not create more reactionaries. To this end let us shoot the elephant, not wipe out all the natives to save them from perdition.

    “This would limit the available options of the right wing population to either accept destruction or secede.” Actually ..No it doesn’t but well enough for now.

    (They could go on welfare you know, especially if they get hungry.)

    No Coup is possible given the Administrative structure of the United States, still a Jeffersonian Democracy in Structure. No centralized law enforcement, the Regular military is structured and conditioned at all levels against it. Each Governor has his own militia and often Air Force called the National Guard and Air National Guard. Their equipment is quite modern and their troops Veterans. They have tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, fighters, logistics. This was quite deliberate policy. Then there’s the armed citizens. The idea of a Coup controlling the country is an utter escapist fantasy.

    “Peaceful secessions” is the best and least destructive option.

    [Reply]

    Ex-pat in Oz Reply:

    I wouldn’t want to put my eggs in the Caesar option either. History might intervene to allow it to happen but that’s not a plan.

    Crashing the GOP would be great. Based on electoral prospects, it is looking like they’ll become the Whigs which they replaced. Conservatives, Tea Party– crash ’em all.

    VXXC- do you have a blog? Your commentary is insightful.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    sorry no blog Sir. Not lazy, just not worth effort. I hawk wares at the market.

    The Caesar option – to even conceive of this requires the sorting mechanism of war as an absolute prior. The Jeffersonian democracy administrative system has a legacy of 85,000 govts and 17,000 law enforcement agencies, and the military structure as above. The military structure and armaments in particular are designed so as to preclude a coup.

    That’s coup proof.

    So what I am saying is this Caesar would have to conquer first, and he’d have to do so with broad national support of millions of armed, dangerous military and veterans, armed citizens as well as at least the tacit approval of much of the country’s many governments.

    [Reply]

    Posted on February 4th, 2014 at 11:11 pm Reply | Quote
  • nyan_sandwich Says:

    I’m going to go ahead and disagree. The US electoral structure game-theoretically dictates that there are *two* parties clustered either side of the median voter. Suppose you kill the GOP, what does that even look like? The thing collapses into disarray? It already has.

    Suppose you purge everyone involved, do you get a one party state? No you don’t; any idiot on the right can always increase votes by moving left as long as it doesn’t pass the Dems. This is idiot proof, so even a party totally in tatters can still pull off a good “conservative” showing.

    What if the GOP is already dead, and we are only seeing it’s game-theoretically animated corpse? I suppose your point could be rescued by noting that an obvious public demonstration of GOP-zombiehood could have the stated effect.

    By this theorem, the parties in fact have no control over anything; all that matters is where the median voter is, and with immigration, suffrage, state-dependency, and so on, the median voter has been moving left.

    These theorems are not discussed enough in this crowd.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    The Underpants Gnomes have totally got this figured out.

    Step 1: Destroy the GOP.
    Step 2:
    Step 3: Crown Hereditary Prince Alois King of the Anglosphere.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    Nyan is right. The voter relationship is a distraction to the State. What is important are CLIENTS.

    Let us understand the State’s view of Americans not only as Tax Farming Livestock – which is not how they put it – but from the terms they do use: Revenue.

    Here is our Relationship to the State: Revenue or Client.

    Revenue is positive net cash flow from the Taxpayer to the State.

    Client is negative net cash flow from the State to the Client.

    Who is more important to the State?

    The Client. For the Client justifies the States Budget and hence existence and profits.

    This is a permutation on basic banking principles: banks consider debts owed them as assets. Banks consider deposits in their accounts as Liabilities. They are paying interest and administrative upkeep for these deposits, and the deposits are not being loaned out as debt, hence generating revenue back to the bank. Debt payers are assets they generate income to the Bank. Depositors generate costs out of the Bank.

    It is basic to banking that debts are paying assets and deposits a liability.

    A productive net taxpayer is not a dependent client of the State and hence a liability. He does not justify the governments budget.

    A dependent net tax receiver is dependent client of the State and an asset – for it is their client rolls or the amount of people they send government checks to that justify the departments budget. The key relationship of the citizen in Patron/Client relationships is to be a Client.

    This means Voters are a unnecessary distraction and potentially disruptive risk to the State.

    Hence the Government must control the Votes of Democracy and basically does. However if pressed or menaced by Democracy at elections it simply ignores it as it has been with our current Congress for 3 years. Behold the Power of Sacred Democracy!! Nothing if anything of substance – like Governments Budget – is at stake. Democracy has no actual decision power. That would be fatal.

    [Reply]

    Ex-pat in Oz Reply:

    Spot on– it sounds counter-intuitive but this is precisely how banks view their depositors– as liabilities.

    Peter, here’s the formulation:

    Step 1: Destroy the GOP. (or just let it wind down on its own)
    Step 2: Fill vacuum with replacement political alternative (all these DE/NR guys workin’ on it, with credible start thus far)
    Step 3: Crown Hereditary Prince Alois King of the Anglosphere (fine)

    “Reforming” or “taking over” the GOP– why? How well did perestroika work out? I mean– what’s the point? This would be the equivalent of the bolshies “taking over” the Kerensky govt. Dampier is right– let the Progs have their USG, Detroits, o/s interventions, etc– they can “own” all that and we’ll silently begin moving with our feet into sustainable future-oriented spaces & communities (ok, this gets murky and is a bit TBA).

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    You have to have an alternative before you can fill a vacuum with it. Until then, gridlock is my friend. The GOP at least produces a little gridlock.

    The argument against the GOP is that, without a Neutered False Opposition, far larger numbers of people would flock to the Dark Enlightenment. I’m inclined to think that this argument wrongly attributes the influence of the Cathedral to the GOP.

    Posted on February 5th, 2014 at 5:13 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    @admin& et al

    Our elections and hence parties are Fraudulent. Democracy decides nothing. The Dems aren’t the Party of White House and the Senate, they’re the Party of Government. If by Divine or Infernal intervention the Dems were to suddenly become acually you know democrats the party of Patron/Client Government would either dispense with the formality without power altogether or put their own party together. New York has this, it’s called The Working Families Party. Patron/Client with NGOs [Patron and Client] in a direct leading role. For all we know this is what may happen if the GOP self-destructs, which BTW it seems intent on doing – see Immigration.

    The Tea Party kills the GOP by not showing up to Vote. White people walked away by millions in 2012. Quite apart from NR – and in fact utterly independent of even being aware of it’s existence – the American Majority demographic realizes it has no representation. The best thing for the Tea Party to do is exactly what it is doing, nothing. It failed. It has the decency to be silent.

    There’s no hope for the GOP in either reform [gag] or capture or any scenario. If there were then it’s still irrelevant. See my analysis above. Voting is irrelevant to decision making,
    the democracy has been consultative not decisive for decades.

    What’s changed is with the Prog degeneracy they are just saying [literally] “So What?” out in the open. The mask is off. This is both opportunity and gauntlet being thrown down. As well as Constitutional Law Professors et al saying we should just formally recognize the Consitution is an impediment to progress and I very heartedly agree and we should declare it officially deceased.

    (Let us remember democracy was in fact amended to the Original Constitution. For later of course)

    @Mr Taylor – NO. We don’t want to defraud the people into thinking they have a vote any longer.
    We don’t in particular want the majority of the country – White – defrauded into thinking they have representation. We don’t. Other than naked Hostility and animus as policy. Being De-Frauded isn’t a real choice. We have no Voice.

    Tea Party is dead or intimidated. It’s very existence however brief is heartening, the victims roused themselves at the last moment and cannot be accused of not trying to use electoral processes. That’s important – to be cornered and to know admit we’re cornered. This has now quite definitively failed. And to return to Immigration the former GOP voters are now being openly betrayed along with the countries borders to alien barbarians bought in to not so much to vote as to become Clients of the Patronage Racket Divisions of our Government. As Whites have been so passive the rather dull types in our government expect them to continue to pay.

    That we have Voice is Fraud, it needs to be admitted openly at last.

    The Proper Course for DEC is to destroy the Progs. The Proper course of NeoReaction is to offer not Voice but EXIT to Proto-Conservatives, EXIT to their culture, their Polis, their Traditions .

    Exit is another way of saying “Home”.

    [Reply]

    neovictorian23 Reply:

    Amen.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    Suppose that the GOP had a big convention in Philadelphia, with all of the big shots, every consultant and every elected official above the level of dogcatcher. The next day, they all came down with Legionnaire’s disease and died within a week.

    What would be the consequences of this?

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Much less than killing the Idea of the GOP (or mainstream democratic opposition).

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    I thought you were agnostic on whether democracy was salvageable?

    It would be nice to have some kind of “finger” command or look-up table for reactionaries that would return a particular writer’s declared favorite flavor of political organization. Maybe someone could make a top five list of the proposals that have been floated and ask each participant to state his level of despair on a scale of 1-10 for each proposal?

    What would such a list look like? Moldbug sometimes advocates some sort of corporate structure. VXXC seems to favor limited franchise democracy. Collectively, we’ve been accused of being monarchists, with reason. (But there are multiple flavors.) Several people are likely to say that it’s the wrong question, and the real issue is religion, voice vs. exit, or something else.

    Posted on February 6th, 2014 at 2:11 am Reply | Quote

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