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	<title>Comments on: Racism for Beginners</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-88040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alrenous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2014 22:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-88040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whites say the African is indolent and over-excitable. But imagine what it&#039;s like from the other side.

The African would say the White works too hard and doesn&#039;t care about anything. Whites say Africans are greedy. Africans would say Whites sell themselves for a pittance. Whites say Africans are too brutal to their women, but Africans say the women like it that way, and what do fertility figures say about who is right?

White Man enslaves the African because He says the African won&#039;t work otherwise. The African says the White will work as a slave without even being whipped! 

Of course the African is bad at White civilization. Even the White isn&#039;t too hot at it, and they grew up with the stuff. Every race has much to be ashamed of, the only question is which bits are high status to shame at the moment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whites say the African is indolent and over-excitable. But imagine what it&#8217;s like from the other side.</p>
<p>The African would say the White works too hard and doesn&#8217;t care about anything. Whites say Africans are greedy. Africans would say Whites sell themselves for a pittance. Whites say Africans are too brutal to their women, but Africans say the women like it that way, and what do fertility figures say about who is right?</p>
<p>White Man enslaves the African because He says the African won&#8217;t work otherwise. The African says the White will work as a slave without even being whipped! </p>
<p>Of course the African is bad at White civilization. Even the White isn&#8217;t too hot at it, and they grew up with the stuff. Every race has much to be ashamed of, the only question is which bits are high status to shame at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2013 02:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Quite an experience to live in fear, isn&#039;t it? That&#039;s what it is to be a slave.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Quite an experience to live in fear, isn&#8217;t it? That&#8217;s what it is to be a slave.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Contemplationist</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Contemplationist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2013 01:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was of a similar opinion, but then I encountered Nassim Taleb who is a huge fan of Algazel and imputes skeptical empirical motives to him. 
Here&#039;s an example:
http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2011/09/algazel-a-k-a-al-ghazali-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%84%DB%8C-the-arab-arabic-language-philosopher-wh/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was of a similar opinion, but then I encountered Nassim Taleb who is a huge fan of Algazel and imputes skeptical empirical motives to him.<br />
Here&#8217;s an example:<br />
<a href="http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2011/09/algazel-a-k-a-al-ghazali-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%84%DB%8C-the-arab-arabic-language-philosopher-wh/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2011/09/algazel-a-k-a-al-ghazali-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%BA%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%84%DB%8C-the-arab-arabic-language-philosopher-wh/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Contemplationist</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7984</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Contemplationist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jul 2013 00:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah the groveling. 
I cringed while reading that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah the groveling.<br />
I cringed while reading that.</p>
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		<title>By: Rasputin's Severed Penis</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7973</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasputin's Severed Penis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jul 2013 21:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, since the current Chaos Patch is given over to music discussion I thought this might be the most recent / relevant place to put this UK paper front page headline (WTF??!!):

http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/10/cafe-owners-warning-to-customers-if-youre-allergic-to-black-people-dont-come-in-3876686/

What was even better was the discussion that the story generated between friends of friends on Facebook. Please indulge me a little here:

Person A: I&#039;m unsure whether it&#039;s okay to write off all responses in a small northern village as racism. Having often been the person-who-stood-out in places where I&#039;ve lived, I suspect some people are reacting with a more general xenophobia that&#039;s not racist so much as &quot;they&#039;re not from round here&quot;, and some people just curiously notice anything around them that&#039;s not familiar, without there being any hate behind it.
I&#039;m not dismissing her experience in Yorkshire, just saying it&#039;s probably a more complex mix of reactions she was facing, one of which was racism from some of the people.
And it&#039;s not fun being constantly the person-who-stands-out. It&#039;s exhausting.

[What an impeccably liberal response!]

Person B: You&#039;re wrong. And not black so really, why is your opinion important?

[Wow! Shot down in flames!!]

Person A: If that&#039;s directed to me, please explain why I&#039;m wrong (that will help make your response more useful to me).

[A bit pissed off but sensing danger... and still impeccably progressive: Please, please, educate me!]

Person B: Being an ethnic minority myself, I can tell the difference between racism and ignorance so when I say something racist is happening, rather than downplay it or deny it, you should believe me.

[Ah, I see. Being black (she really isn&#039;t *very* black, from what I can tell from her picture) qualifies you to know whether something is racist or not from hundreds of miles away in a place you have never been. I mean by current standards it anything pretty much is racist so you can&#039;t really go too far wrong...]

Person A: Exactly. That&#039;s why I made a point of starting what I wrote with &quot;I am unsure whether...&quot; and I&#039;m always willing to believe someones experience, though I see nothing wrong with sometimes asking why it is that particular experience, in any particular instance, rather than something that looks like it from a distance.
But I understand your frustration, having experienced it myself as several different kinds of minority (at least I haven&#039;t experienced racism myself since I left school and stopped being bullied for being Jewish, but I think you&#039;re jumping to conclusions about my lack of &quot;ethnic minority&quot; status... but we&#039;re not competing, and it&#039;s an easy assumption to make about someone from a tiny photo, isn&#039;t it?)
I wasn&#039;t intending to downplay or deny her experience, I was saying that sometimes what looks like phobia is just ignorance without the hatred that I think defines phobia. So sometimes you can assume you&#039;re being hated when you&#039;re not. That doesn&#039;t of course, change how the person on the receiving end of it experiences it, so I can see why what I wrote wound you up. I&#039;m sorry.

[Danger sensors firing on all cylinders now! Last two words? &#039;I&#039;m sorry&#039;. Moneyshot!]

Person B: Apology accepted.

[Victory! But wait... there&#039;s more!]

Person A: ...and I apologise further, since reading back my response to you, it&#039;s clear to me I was being defensive. I have a different mixture of privilege and oppression from some, but I haven&#039;t had to deal with overt racism for decades, so I don&#039;t know what it&#039;s like to live with that one all your life. It&#039;s probably a consequence of being on the receiving end of oppression all your life that would make someone see it where it wasn&#039;t there - that&#039;s certainly true of the oppressions I experience, they&#039;ve made me hyperalert to trouble, and it&#039;s the oppression that&#039;s largely at fault for that.

Jesus! I just want to reiterate that I don&#039;t know either of these people personally, but I still feel dirty...

In all fairness it probably is for &#039;racist&#039; reasons that people don&#039;t want to eat there. But it could also be because she is the kind of person who would put a sign up saying &#039;I don&#039;t bite&#039; on the door?! I mean, Black, White or Blue, would you really want to spend an hour or so in the company of someone who who do that? I&#039;m going with no.

Even better than this was Wakfield council&#039;s response to the story:

&quot;A spokes person for Wakesfield council said they were &#039;obviously concerned&#039; by the issue, which they had not been made aware of before. &#039;I would urge the business involved to get in touch with us as soon as possible&#039; he added.&quot;

What for? Are they going to add the cost of a meal there on to your council tax and give you coupons?! Probably.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, since the current Chaos Patch is given over to music discussion I thought this might be the most recent / relevant place to put this UK paper front page headline (WTF??!!):</p>
<p><a href="http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/10/cafe-owners-warning-to-customers-if-youre-allergic-to-black-people-dont-come-in-3876686/" rel="nofollow">http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/10/cafe-owners-warning-to-customers-if-youre-allergic-to-black-people-dont-come-in-3876686/</a></p>
<p>What was even better was the discussion that the story generated between friends of friends on Facebook. Please indulge me a little here:</p>
<p>Person A: I&#8217;m unsure whether it&#8217;s okay to write off all responses in a small northern village as racism. Having often been the person-who-stood-out in places where I&#8217;ve lived, I suspect some people are reacting with a more general xenophobia that&#8217;s not racist so much as &#8220;they&#8217;re not from round here&#8221;, and some people just curiously notice anything around them that&#8217;s not familiar, without there being any hate behind it.<br />
I&#8217;m not dismissing her experience in Yorkshire, just saying it&#8217;s probably a more complex mix of reactions she was facing, one of which was racism from some of the people.<br />
And it&#8217;s not fun being constantly the person-who-stands-out. It&#8217;s exhausting.</p>
<p>[What an impeccably liberal response!]</p>
<p>Person B: You&#8217;re wrong. And not black so really, why is your opinion important?</p>
<p>[Wow! Shot down in flames!!]</p>
<p>Person A: If that&#8217;s directed to me, please explain why I&#8217;m wrong (that will help make your response more useful to me).</p>
<p>[A bit pissed off but sensing danger&#8230; and still impeccably progressive: Please, please, educate me!]</p>
<p>Person B: Being an ethnic minority myself, I can tell the difference between racism and ignorance so when I say something racist is happening, rather than downplay it or deny it, you should believe me.</p>
<p>[Ah, I see. Being black (she really isn&#8217;t *very* black, from what I can tell from her picture) qualifies you to know whether something is racist or not from hundreds of miles away in a place you have never been. I mean by current standards it anything pretty much is racist so you can&#8217;t really go too far wrong&#8230;]</p>
<p>Person A: Exactly. That&#8217;s why I made a point of starting what I wrote with &#8220;I am unsure whether&#8230;&#8221; and I&#8217;m always willing to believe someones experience, though I see nothing wrong with sometimes asking why it is that particular experience, in any particular instance, rather than something that looks like it from a distance.<br />
But I understand your frustration, having experienced it myself as several different kinds of minority (at least I haven&#8217;t experienced racism myself since I left school and stopped being bullied for being Jewish, but I think you&#8217;re jumping to conclusions about my lack of &#8220;ethnic minority&#8221; status&#8230; but we&#8217;re not competing, and it&#8217;s an easy assumption to make about someone from a tiny photo, isn&#8217;t it?)<br />
I wasn&#8217;t intending to downplay or deny her experience, I was saying that sometimes what looks like phobia is just ignorance without the hatred that I think defines phobia. So sometimes you can assume you&#8217;re being hated when you&#8217;re not. That doesn&#8217;t of course, change how the person on the receiving end of it experiences it, so I can see why what I wrote wound you up. I&#8217;m sorry.</p>
<p>[Danger sensors firing on all cylinders now! Last two words? &#8216;I&#8217;m sorry&#8217;. Moneyshot!]</p>
<p>Person B: Apology accepted.</p>
<p>[Victory! But wait&#8230; there&#8217;s more!]</p>
<p>Person A: &#8230;and I apologise further, since reading back my response to you, it&#8217;s clear to me I was being defensive. I have a different mixture of privilege and oppression from some, but I haven&#8217;t had to deal with overt racism for decades, so I don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like to live with that one all your life. It&#8217;s probably a consequence of being on the receiving end of oppression all your life that would make someone see it where it wasn&#8217;t there &#8211; that&#8217;s certainly true of the oppressions I experience, they&#8217;ve made me hyperalert to trouble, and it&#8217;s the oppression that&#8217;s largely at fault for that.</p>
<p>Jesus! I just want to reiterate that I don&#8217;t know either of these people personally, but I still feel dirty&#8230;</p>
<p>In all fairness it probably is for &#8216;racist&#8217; reasons that people don&#8217;t want to eat there. But it could also be because she is the kind of person who would put a sign up saying &#8216;I don&#8217;t bite&#8217; on the door?! I mean, Black, White or Blue, would you really want to spend an hour or so in the company of someone who who do that? I&#8217;m going with no.</p>
<p>Even better than this was Wakfield council&#8217;s response to the story:</p>
<p>&#8220;A spokes person for Wakesfield council said they were &#8216;obviously concerned&#8217; by the issue, which they had not been made aware of before. &#8216;I would urge the business involved to get in touch with us as soon as possible&#8217; he added.&#8221;</p>
<p>What for? Are they going to add the cost of a meal there on to your council tax and give you coupons?! Probably.</p>
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		<title>By: Manjusri</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Manjusri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 02:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Engineers tend to be in the INTP/INTJ/ENTP/ENTJ cluster... which tends to produce a disproportionate number of libertarians (and also accounts for the &quot;too many chiefs, not enough indians&quot; tendency among libertarians- by nature they tend to be intellectuals of a sort, and not followers). As libertarianism is one of those solutions that is &quot;simple, obvious and wrong&quot;, it&#039;s natural that engineers would latch on to it (just as many scientists and engineers in an earlier age were hardcore communists). Engineering deals in clear-cut, logical issues, not muddled medians... thus applying the same thinking to human affairs seems appropriate.

Being an INTP myself, one reason that I got run out of academia on a rail was because, as a friend who is an engineer put it, I think like an engineer, not an academic. Social sciences academics don&#039;t like it when you actually propose solutions... especially un-PC ones...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Engineers tend to be in the INTP/INTJ/ENTP/ENTJ cluster&#8230; which tends to produce a disproportionate number of libertarians (and also accounts for the &#8220;too many chiefs, not enough indians&#8221; tendency among libertarians- by nature they tend to be intellectuals of a sort, and not followers). As libertarianism is one of those solutions that is &#8220;simple, obvious and wrong&#8221;, it&#8217;s natural that engineers would latch on to it (just as many scientists and engineers in an earlier age were hardcore communists). Engineering deals in clear-cut, logical issues, not muddled medians&#8230; thus applying the same thinking to human affairs seems appropriate.</p>
<p>Being an INTP myself, one reason that I got run out of academia on a rail was because, as a friend who is an engineer put it, I think like an engineer, not an academic. Social sciences academics don&#8217;t like it when you actually propose solutions&#8230; especially un-PC ones&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lesser Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7690</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lesser Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2013 01:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have my doubts about engineers.   I notice a tendency to reductionism and to embrace crank ideologies rather than admit that human affairs are a mess that no one has a good handle on.  Engineers are a special case of Americans, or vice versa--they hold as an article of fath that problems have solutions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have my doubts about engineers.   I notice a tendency to reductionism and to embrace crank ideologies rather than admit that human affairs are a mess that no one has a good handle on.  Engineers are a special case of Americans, or vice versa&#8211;they hold as an article of fath that problems have solutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Scharlach</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7650</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scharlach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jul 2013 18:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The scientific and cultural accomplishments of the Islamic Golden Age (and its somewhat golden aftermath) belong in great part to Persians, not Arabs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The scientific and cultural accomplishments of the Islamic Golden Age (and its somewhat golden aftermath) belong in great part to Persians, not Arabs.</p>
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		<title>By: nydwracu</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7565</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nydwracu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jul 2013 23:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No idea, but I found it searching Confucianism in the Philosophers&#039; Index, so if anyone has access to that... Hell, there might&#039;ve been more than one along those lines.

(My college account probably still works but I cannot figure out at all how to get into the thing, so.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No idea, but I found it searching Confucianism in the Philosophers&#8217; Index, so if anyone has access to that&#8230; Hell, there might&#8217;ve been more than one along those lines.</p>
<p>(My college account probably still works but I cannot figure out at all how to get into the thing, so.)</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/racism-for-beginners/#comment-7530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jul 2013 08:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=690#comment-7530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Opinions about Islam tend to be swayed by the degree of attachment to free inquiry. Al Ghazali is the greatest enemy the philosophers have ever known, and his spirit seems to have conquered the world of Islam quite comprehensively.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Opinions about Islam tend to be swayed by the degree of attachment to free inquiry. Al Ghazali is the greatest enemy the philosophers have ever known, and his spirit seems to have conquered the world of Islam quite comprehensively.</p>
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