Recall

This isn’t something XS has done before, but it seems necessary to do it now. Here (from October last year) is an anticipation of where this blog finds itself right now. Perhaps NRx was from the beginning part of the Cathedral funeral process.

Some serious adjustment is called for. An enemy that can suffer a defeat this stupendous clearly isn’t a radically intimidating adversary. We can already see beyond it. The conflict has moved on.

My current (uncertain) take: The regime analyzed by classical NRx has descended into a deeply morbid state. Things will get worse for it, perhaps catastrophically, more quickly than we yet imagine, in a cascade of collapse. All the trends that count against it are still strengthening, in many case exponentially. It would be an analytical error to remain fixated upon its corpse.

Demotism is, of course, undefeated (perhaps even temporarily reinforced). The Cathedral, however, appears mortally wounded. This year was — quite plausibly — its 1989.

ADDED: To be a little clearer, it isn’t really 1989, it’s 1517. The quasi-universal authority of a church died (as a result of techonomic media innovation, among other factors).

November 15, 2016admin 135 Comments »
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135 Responses to this entry

  • Aristocles Invictvs Says:

    The internet is our printing press, and The Cathedral failed to integrate it.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Exactly right. The Gutenberg Aeon ended this year.

    [Reply]

    Post Alley Crackpot Reply:

    Personally I’m waiting for the emergence of a popular new “anti-Aeropagitica” …

    [Reply]

    Post Alley Crackpot Reply:

    BTW, an editing feature would be a lovely thing, not to mention a slightly larger font for older eyes …

    Make it so!

    [mumbles something about an “Aeropagitica” having wings and a Rolls-Royce engine]

    [Reply]

    Alrenous Reply:

    In firefox clones it’s ctrl-= (go for ctrl-+) to zoom in. Ctrl-0 to reset.

    Ryan C Reply:

    Surely you exaggerate.

    Literal memory holes are not needed.

    [Reply]

    smg Reply:

    Lefties touted the internet as a means of democratizing society/ideas thinking it would lead to greater equality, instead it amplified the Cathedral’s weaknesses. Now, social media is desperate to get that shit under control.

    Tee hee. Too late.

    [Reply]

    scientism Reply:

    One of the things I’m amazed was never really discussed within NRx circles was the potential (now actualised) ability of a leader to use the internet to disintermediate the media. Everybody got the internet wrong. As smg said, the internet was always supposed to be a decentralising, individually empowering force, but actually the big play here was for a presidential candidate to use this direct line to the people to run against the media. Now he’s president-elect and he’s shunning the media for his own lackeys. I’m sure he’ll keep it up when he’s president. So this one guy has done an end run around the Cathedral using Twitter, but he has only been able to do it in the context of a successful campaign for the presidency. All the other people using Twitter get nothing.

    So basically, the internet is individually empowering, but only if you’re Donald Trump and you want to be president (and, if he so chooses, dictator and/or first of the Trump dynasty). It’s a good gambit. I’m not sure he’ll see it through, but I think he has the advantage. Somebody could certainly use the position he has right now to dismantle the Cathedral, but will it be him? Or maybe it’ll tear itself apart and he won’t have to do it?

    There’s another interesting angle on this: The Clinton campaign, like the Obama campaign, had Eric Schmidt and Google and the best minds in Silicon Valley onboard. They collected data and ran it through algorithms and so on. Yet they were beaten by a troll. Trump apparently shunned stats, he doesn’t use a computer, he just tweets from his phone, yet he outflanked the tech geeks. The tech made it possible but, at the end of the day, it was just plumbing and it was the man using it that mattered most. The geeks are not going to inherit the Earth; they’re going to be bullied by jocks on their own platforms.

    [Reply]

    Anonymous Reply:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    Anonymous, that is a good point, technology can be and is profoundly misused. The Gutenberg Aeon ended, the Internet Aeon began. Supposing that the Internet led to a Cathedral that made the current one look paltry–what then? Call it the Computer.

    [Reply]

    Tentative Joiner Reply:

    >The geeks are not going to inherit the Earth; they’re going to be bullied by jocks on their own platforms.

    Ever since meatspace social graphs were invited to crawl onto the Web, the mere geeks’ fate was sealed. (By their bosses, no less.) They did not have the meat PageRank to survive in that environment. Social (network) justice made it abundantly clear pre-Trump. The interesting question is how well an UberTrump armed with SV technology (but not its social status) could have performed compared to the actual Trump.

    [Reply]

    Alrenous Reply:

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/04/case-against-democracy-ten-red-pills.html

    Pill 10.

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/06/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-liberal.html

    >”In fact, since the Internet is starting to route around the Polygon, both to the left and to the right, such pleasures may await us as well.”

    Also found repeatedly in the comments on various posts.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 6:19 pm Reply | Quote
  • darkreformation101 Says:

    Maybe.

    Reflecting on the events of the last week via the Moldbug frame here is what I think.

    Firstly, I think Admin is right in saying that the Cathedral has taken a real beating in its reputation. However, the structure remains entirely in place.

    Secondly, admin is right to bring up the demotism.

    Thirdly, Moldbug’s prediction that a right wing democratic reaction simply energises the left seems to be true. Looking at the riots, protests and virtue signalling, the left simply revel in their perceived status as underdogs and victims. Trump simply gives them an energy boost.

    Fourthly, from Moldbug ( via de Jouvnel) a direct attack (even in perception) upon the system only strengthen or become part of the system.

    Consider this:

    “MH: In all transitions, and I’ve lived through a couple, particularly the last one in 2008, the permanent government, the inter regnum, looks at this period as pure opportunity. This is their opportunity to get in front of the new President-elect and the new Vice-President-elect (and their teams) and describe the world as they see it, which is very often at variance to the world as it has been described on the campaign trail.”

    https://www.thecipherbrief.com/column/network-take/seeing-world-it-presidential-transition-begins-1093

    Finally, the Cathedral is/was the antidote to the poison that is democracy. It is now breaking down. That was one of Moldbug’s core claims.

    The central problem is the structure of government — imperio in imperium.

    Peter Hitchens thinks America is now in its Weimar phrase.

    Yes, the Internet is our printing press……Dark Reformation….

    Trump, the “clown genius” beat the Cathedral.

    Will the next Martin Luther be a stand up comedian rather than a priest?

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    Trump isn’t remotely right wing.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 6:55 pm Reply | Quote
  • darkreformation101 Says:

    Surprised that no one has quoted this:

    What do you think Americans respond to in “The Donald” and Gov. Christie? To the obvious kinginess of these figures. Supreme personal authority, generally male, is a normal human function and one we recognize instinctively. The job of King does not exist, at least not in the public sector, but the Trumps and Christies come as close to it as possible and are clearly biologically suited for the position.

    Thus the genuine enthusiasm for these figures, who alas, win or lose, will never enjoy a fraction of the old Plantagenet, Tudor or Stuart royal prerogative. A true King could still save England, I think, or any of her far-flung children…

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/carlyle-and-froude-on-monarchy-and.html

    Moldbug, 2011.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 7:08 pm Reply | Quote
  • Wagner Says:

    “An enemy that can suffer a defeat this stupendous clearly isn’t a radically intimidating adversary.”

    If this is an illusory defeat (RE: the deep state) the Cathedral is a radically intimidating adversary indeed. And if demotism is retained why wouldn’t it be illusory?

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    The deep state is not a problem. The cathedral is.

    Altho 9/11 was pretty sick.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 7:13 pm Reply | Quote
  • Brett Stevens Says:

    While this Cathedral is grievously wounded, the power of Crowdism is that it can take any form by any group that indulges in the brain-disconnecting ideology of individualism/egalitarianism.

    This means that there is always a new Cathedral in the wings, just like there are always people willing to take the place of a drug dealer shot down in the line of duty. It is an opportunity for fleecing the sheep and, unless there are aristocrats to obstruct it, rises like a phoenix infinitely.

    [Reply]

    Grant Reply:

    Interesting comment. A few years ago I read The Crowd by Gustav Le Bon, a teacher of Freud’s, where he discusses crowd dynamics and comes to the conclusion that over a long enough period, crowds always become right wing. I think the Cathedral as a cultural institution has not really distributed its message through ‘a crowd’ so much as through (generally one sided) education. Once the voice of the leftist becomes just another voice (as in a crowd) rather than a voice of authority (as in a classroom), much of its power is lost. I think these crowd dynamics, which you could even call demotism, might really be more at the heart of the overall rightward shift we’re seeing these days much more than many NRx-ers might like to admit, though of course I would love to hear the comments of admin or any other of the learned commenters of this blog on the subject.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Right. The Bolsheviks co-opted the Russian Revolution, and the French Revolution was directed by freemasonic ideologues.

    I support both revolutions, n.b. The old administrations were no longer right.

    [Reply]

    Grant Reply:

    Put another way: crowds level moral hierarchies, which has the strange effect of enacting political hierarchies.

    [Reply]

    smg Reply:

    In some kind of evolutionary biology or behavioral biology frame this makes perfect sense.

    The circle of life.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GibiNy4d4gc

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    Every cause becomes a racket. The main reason this occurs, ultimately, is that nihilism is true and gods do not exist. Mythology is not self sustainable because it’s a lie.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Yet gods persist and myth and its logy sustains itself.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    Because normies are gullible and get trapped in cycles of failed nonsense. Religion is endemic in the way that disease is. It may not be possible to eliminate it, but the less, the better.

    Wagner Reply:

    >normies
    >atheists

    >gullible
    >fallen

    >disease
    >sin

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    In fact, what you’ve done is a lazy idiot’s version of what real scholarship has done, ie to bother to examine carefully how modernism has rationalized religious and inherited superstition into political creeds and national myths. If you find be bothered to do that you might have a point, but as it is you’re just a flippant cunt.

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    @Wagner I would consider Scientism, Humanism, National Socialism, etc. To be religious in nature. Also, your superficial list ignores important differences, for example there are is in fact no such thing as good or evil, there is in fact no purpose or intent behind the cosmos, there is in fact no means of accomplishing ends other than the material. Like most attempts to make an analogy between materialism and supernaturalism it is rhetorical bullshit so you don’t have to admit that your gay cult is wrong.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Now hold on, if there is no good, does not food taste good to you?

    Wagner Reply:

    R. J., have you seen the studies where people look at studies and part of their brain lights up? Fascinating stuff. Scientists are hooked to a machine that shows their brainlights and show them scans of brainlights and their brain lights up. In another study they showed scientists pictures of their brainlights when they were shown the previous study of brainlights and that made their brain light up again. Crazy stuff. Just kidding, this is made up.

    Capitalist Reply:

    Sounds like you have a gay cult yourself R.J. Moore II. Do you have anything to back up the fact that you’re above everybody else and your beliefs are true besides your own testimony? Did Nihilism talk to you and tell you that it’s the one true way, to be believed at the exclusion of everything else?

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 7:36 pm Reply | Quote
  • Untrue Neutral Says:

    Don’t turn your back on the body

    [Reply]

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Very True.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 7:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • Contaminated NEET Says:

    I imagine good old Joe McCarthy felt like quite a victory against the Cathedral for a time, but in the end he only strengthened it. It could be 1989, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Rather, the commoners are about to get a good long lesson about why they mustn’t ignore the sage advice of their betters. The Cathedral underestimated the resistance this year and took a bad blow, but it has not yet begun to fight. To be fair, it’s not the mighty beast that slew Tailgunner Joe in the ’50s, but neither is it the ailing nag that was the USSR at the end. Supposedly, in private nobody really believed in Soviet communism by that point, but most of our wealthy, educated, and influential still swear their souls to the Cathedral, even behind closed doors and with trusted friends.

    We’re about to witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station. There’s going to be a sustained media demonization campaign beyond anything that’s been seen outside of total war propaganda; there will almost certainly be impeachment hearings; and if all else fails, the central bankers will pop the cork on the economic collapse they’ve been bottling up for the past decade.

    [Reply]

    Dave Reply:

    Fully agree with this. The hard left and their enablers in Media,inc. are recovering from the shock and are gearing up for battle. They have been energized by this and seeing as how they view themselves as the perpetual victim, will start going on the offensive in a large way, fueled by the belief in their unquestioned moral superiority.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    McCarthy was a New Deal liberal.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 7:54 pm Reply | Quote
  • spandrell Says:

    I’ve been thinking on writing about this too. Surely Moldbug and many of us were wrong about the strength of the Cathedral. And it most surely didn’t end because of internal conflict: the Cathedral was as united and vicious as it has ever been. And yet look at them.

    And this is hardly some black swan: the whole thing is unraveling everywhere.

    [Reply]

    Seth Largo Reply:

    Wait and see. My prediction is that, in a year, the Cathedral will have found a way simultaneously to absorb The Donald into itself (no substantive changes to invade the world/invite the world policy) but also to keep up the heat of leftist protestation under the guise that The Donald’s administration is Literally the third reich.

    We already see it happening. Donald has said he’s “fine” with gay marriage; he’s not going to mess with that hobby horse of the religious right. However, the leftist intelligentsia and their protesters in the streets are wailing and moaning about Donald’s purported policy of forced conversion therapy for all queers.

    Donald hasn’t said a word about The Wall since being elected. He has only said that he’s going to continue Obama’s policy of deporting criminals, only more vigorously. However, the leftist intelligentsia and their protesters in the streets are already planning Hiding Places and Underground Railroads for the great mexican purge.

    Donald has the support of dozens of high-profile blacks; he has come out with a plan to pump money and resources into inner-city black communities. However, the leftist intelligentsia and their protesters in the streets swear that the lynchings will commence any moment.

    Donald looks like he’s going to appoint a neocon (Bolton or Rudy) to Secretary of State. TrueCon Priebus is his chief of staff. In other words, Donald is so far showing himself to be a centrist even as the media and academic wings of the Cathedral continue to shout Hitler!, creating a frontlash for major pushback (to the Left of course) once they regain control.

    I’m happy to be proven wrong.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    Trump can thus be rather more radical than he currently is. Perhaps one might say that is even what is expected of him.

    [Reply]

    Alrenous Reply:

    The Cathedral defeated [is defeating] itself. Philosophical contradiction manifests physically sooner or later.

    It was going to rig the election, but with Donald openly bringing it up, they couldn’t use the more-obvious methods, and it turned out they needed them. They relied on a lie, and the lie got exposed.

    They were going to stonewall the president like they usually do, but this will reveal that POTUS has no power. They relied on a lie, and the lie is going to be exposed – or the lie is going to become fact.

    Was the Cathedral always this weak? Yes. Foundations of lies are always weak. The Cathedral was always a glass cannon. That’s why they were always strenuously suppressing any tiny crack in the narrative.

    Mind-control, or Sophism, was always inherently self-defeating in the long run. Resistance develops. It selects for its own demise.

    The thing to worry about now is them not fighting the Wall. (Synecdochally – any major Trump initiative will do it.) If they grit their teeth and pretend for 4-8 years, they can delay the destruction of the permanent government, and thus retain, effectively, all power. To get a rough idea, Trump will maybe do several major initiatives a year, whereas the government as a whole will do thousands or millions of things. The Cathedral will only lose the mandate of Heaven if they do something stupid. (Again.) However, sooner or later, the tension between reality and fiction will get too great, and something will snap. The Cathedral has to get it right every time. Entropy only has to get it right once.

    If the Cathedral, in its hubris, resists the Donald, the contradictions may well break its back. Contra Land, this will not be a win for non-Cathedral populism. The chaos may be so extreme America is unable to hold an election at all.

    [Reply]

    Seth Largo Reply:

    Excellent points. The delegation of sovereignty via rule of law is on notice the new few years.

    [Reply]

    Seth Largo Reply:

    *next

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    You talk about civil strife and the destruction of democracy like it’s a bad thing. It’s long overdue. America AKA the NWO has to be destroyed. The longer it lasts the worse it gets.

    [Reply]

    Alfred Woenselaer Reply:

    I wonder about the actual strength of the cathedral. It took a beating by Trump. But it has roots everywhere. Perhaps the Clintons get thrown under the bus but different tentacles of the cathedral continue elsewhere to conspire for power.

    Alternate hypothesis: internet consciousness is a real thing and now that the truth is out cathedral hypnosis is wearing off.

    [Reply]

    Alrenous Reply:

    Missing ref for internet consciousness.
    http://szabo.best.vwh.net/bookconsciousness.html

    [Reply]

    Alfred Woenselaer Reply:

    Link doesn’t work.

    Xoth Reply:

    There’s a lot of ruin in a Cathedral.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray Says:

    Yes, I think the Obama years radically accelerated its morbidity, and Moldbug was rhetorically exaggerating its strength to prevent people of capability from shrugging their shoulders and just saying “It’ll be okay if I do nothing.”

    But to be clear, the Donald is a Mule, a “great man” of a sort (how great may yet need to be proven.) He does not fit into the theory precisely because he represents actual agency; i.e. he’s not just merely the working out of processes already set in motion.

    So that being said, I would not have predicted the appearance of the Donald as a contender, but having emerged as one, it did become obvious to me that he would rise as high as possible, and the height of his rise would reveal the extent to which the Cathedral has become decrepit.

    What remains is whether the Civil Service State can be contained and neutered or else destroyed, but then after that one must contend with demotism directly. The reality is that whether this whole program fails or succeeds it is a preview to what any restoration would have to run through in establishing a patchwork, a monarchy, or whatever form of secure governance it strategically aims for.

    And of course, the last enemy is death.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:24 pm Reply | Quote
  • Lucian Says:

    Marxist vs Neocon catfight re Trump:

    channel4.com/news/interview-with-niall-ferguson-and-yanis-varoufakis

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    I had this in the hopper, thinking along similar lines. I believe the Cathedral can now be thought of as a local node. Still the biggest, but no longer in total control, and even its allies will start chipping away. Trump effectively ran on Bernie-type “rigged” arguments and BLM probably suppressed the black vote beyond the post-Obama drop-off.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • Wagner Says:

    *Neoreactionaries get rounded up and imprisoned*

    “Wudjoo say bout niggas, boi?”

    Even Land will be carving a swastika into his forehead at that point.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • slumlord Says:

    And yet the managerial class which is the real enemy, by and large, remains. The Cathedral serves to justify and defend it and though it took a hit, the underlying “Left” control structure remains and unless it is taken down the Cathedral will reassert itself, since it does learn from its mistakes.

    All this election has so far been is a breach in the the Cathedral wall, what is needed now is an attack on its “reactor core”; the managerial state which enables it. We now have a conduit to the reactor room and we need to get busy.

    [Reply]

    Xoth Reply:

    “Use the Brute Force, Luke.”

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    I don’t think he will, but it would be quite hilarious if Trump fired basically everyone working for the State. That would be the easiest way to gut Leviathan. Then when they protest he can throw them in jail. School teacher gassings should sell popcorn.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Oh the fantasies.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 8:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • smg Says:

    The question I have is can the Cathedral absorb & co-opt Trump. I think the contradictions between establishment Cathedral & Trumpism are too stark. To absorb him they’ll break themselves, yet they’re not capable of rejecting him because they have no means to do so. They have no levers of real power, no branches of government at federal or state level. Media & Academy are delegitimized.

    The real play is in the City(Urban) vs. Suburban & Rural dynamic. The riots are taking place in blue cities, blue states victimizing Hillary voters for a mostly blue audience. It’s a bizarre display of impotence. Blue has no power to strike at Red so they strike at..??? who?? each other? They scream for their Democrat politicians, media heads, academics, Hollywood dipshits to do what? blatantly propagandize moar? Lose more elections? They appear so weak and obvious and crazy retarded.

    [Reply]

    Seth Largo Reply:

    I hope you’re right. See my post above.

    Laughed long and hard at that Meme War link from the last thread, btw.

    [Reply]

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    Trumpism is just Nixon, dude. Hes a post racial preNeoliberal New Dealer. Where the fuck do people get these nutty ideas that he’s so different?

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    They buy into the propaganda, hook and sink.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    They hear it, and it speaks to their fraught psyche like a voice in their head.

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 9:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • Post Alley Crackpot Says:

    “It would be an analytical error to remain fixated upon its corpse.”

    True, but it would be a tactical error not to remain focused on what the corpse’s decay will bring down with it …

    There’s no reason to believe that the remnants of The Cathedral won’t continue to preserve the corpse in the manner of Jeremy Bentham.

    Oh look, here’s a good picture of the old lad:

    http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/12/181-year-old-corpse-of-jeremy-bentham-attends-ucl-board-meeting-3879586/

    I think he’d be much more amusing in a Mexican sombrero — we might think the old boy would be an academic Pancho Villa in that garb!

    🙂

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 9:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • Apatheos Says:

    The United States is no longer a state. On lacking an essential drive to unity, we can discuss the trauma and anachronism of the Revolution. We can focus on our place in our homes. We can go back to Peace of Westphalia. How this has affected philosophies.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 10:29 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alfred Woenselaer Says:

    Argument could also be made for 2007 when Moldbug started blogging. Though 1989 is probably more accurate, fits the frantic attempt by the cathedral to restart the war with Russia.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 11:40 pm Reply | Quote
  • Seth Largo Says:

    The comment thread in that Oct 2015 post is brilliant. Chris B’s position has been thoroughly routed by the events of the previous six months: a mass of 4channers and alt-right trolls somehow meme’d their way into the national spotlight and, mutatis mutandis, the presidency. I mean, a few thousand nerds fucking about on bulletin boards got Hillary Clinton to name them Enemy Number One on public television. Unless Chris B. wants to argue that the kek cult had some secret governing body behind the scenes, I’d say the past six months have been a rousing success for spontaneous order. And a peaceful spontaneity, at that. All the casualties, thus far, have been symbolic. No blood, just a lot of salty progressive tears.

    Kek is dancing. He a great favorite, kek. And he is dancing. He never sleeps.

    [Reply]

    Ananda H. Reply:

    Praise Kek.

    The revelation of Kek’s full power is the #1 story of the year. The combined power of the entire mainstream media was defeated by an underground number-divining frog cult.

    The 21st century is gonna be a weird one.

    [Reply]

    ill Reply:

    Honestly, this. This is just the start, however optimistically, Kek is the future. Kek is now.

    The joy has only just started! Shadilay!

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Shadilay!

    Chris B Reply:

    How has it destroyed my point? I don’t think you are even close to understanding my point because my comments under that post seem to be bang on the money.

    I have noted repeatedly that successful peasant revolt is always the work of a sponsor in the power system using it to their advantage – high-low. Which is precisely what Trump (the great man) has done. This self-hypnosis is always in effect, whereby the actions and skill of the guy running the thing is phased out and everyone starts singing the songs of the peasents/people. You go right on believing that.

    Spontaneous order my ass.

    With that in mind, The Reformation parallel is also suspect, it is correct but for all the wrong reasons. That too, was a power used culture (in fact the princes often imposed it from what I read.) But it seems the nature of the beast is for subsequent history to be written on a deterministic basis, and for power actors to not make clear what they did. (this also goes for the other “Reformation” occurring in the Muslim world, which seems to have been US sponsored.)

    There is no great fragmentation. This is no final removal of governance.

    [Reply]

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    The greatest failure of the Enlightenment was its advocacy of empiricism and reason. Always and everywhere everyone will see only what he wishes to see. Fossils – just a temptation planted by the devil, overrepresentation of the POC among the criminals – proof of systemic racism. Debates among those holding opposing views are pointless, the religious wars are, and will ever be, the only way of resolving such disputes.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    144.

    ▬ Religious Wars. The greatest advance of the masses hitherto has been religious war, for it proves that the masses have begun to deal reverently with conceptions of things. Religious wars only result, when human reason generally has been refined by the subtle disputes of sects; so that even the populace becomes punctilious and regards trifles as important, actually thinking it possible that the “eternal salvation of the soul” may depend upon minute distinctions of concepts.

    ▬▬ FW Neetzsche

    Wagner Reply:

    143.

    ▬ The Greatest Utility of Polytheism. For the individual to set up his own ideal and derive from it his laws, his pleasures and his rights – that has perhaps been hitherto regarded as the most monstrous of all human aberrations, and as idolatry in itself; in fact, the few who have ventured to do this have always needed to apologise to themselves, usually in this wise: “Not I! not I! but a God, through my instrumentality!” It was in the marvellous art and capacity for creating Gods – in polytheism – that this impulse was permitted to discharge itself, it was here that it became purified, perfected, and ennobled; for it was originally a commonplace and unimportant impulse, akin to stubbornness, disobedience and envy. To be hostile to this impulse towards the individual ideal, – that was formerly the law of every morality. There was then only one norm, “the man” – and every people believed that it had this one and ultimate norm. But above himself, and outside of himself, in a distant over-world, a person could see a multitude of norms: the one God was not the denial or blasphemy of the other Gods! It was here that individuals were first permitted, it was here that the right of individuals was first respected. The inventing of Gods, heroes, and supermen of all kinds, as well as co-ordinate men and undermen dwarfs, fairies, centaurs, satyrs, demons, devils was the inestimable preliminary to the justification of the selfishness and sovereignty of the individual: the freedom which was granted to one God in respect to other Gods, was at last given to the individual himself in respect to laws, customs and neighbours. Monotheism, on the contrary, the rigid consequence of the doctrine of one normal human being – consequently the belief in a normal God, beside whom there are only false, spurious Gods – has perhaps been the greatest danger of mankind in the past: man was then threatened by that premature state of inertia, which, so far as we can see, most of the other species of animals reached long ago, as creatures who all believed in one normal animal and ideal in their species, and definitely translated their morality of custom into flesh and blood. In polytheism man’s free-thinking and many-sided thinking had a prototype set up: the power to create for himself new and individual eyes, always newer and more individualised: so that it is for man alone, of all the animals, that there are no ETERNAL horizons and perspectives.

    ▬▬ FW Neetzsche

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Even forgetting and completely disregarding Neetzsche, who´s a late man in history, dying in 1900, the fact is that even the history of Europe “under one religion”—Catholicism—is the history of schizmatic wars & feuds.

    Even Catholicism itself is a history of feuds and schizsm.

    Sectarian feuds, ideological ones,

    resources, ideas, power,

    blood, betrayal,

    splinters &

    sects.

    Seth Largo Reply:

    I have noted repeatedly that successful peasant revolt is always the work of a sponsor in the power system using it to their advantage – high-low. Which is precisely what Trump (the great man) has done.

    I concede the point. However, I would argue that the peasant revolt has to meet the sponsor half-way. There has to be an incipient order, an emergent network, in the peasant revolt, otherwise there’s nothing for the sponsor to sponsor. And that’s precisely what happened in this election. Trump saw an incipient order and gave it fuller form. (Or, to use Sailer’s analogy, Trump saw a hundred dollar bill lying on the sidewalk and decided to pick it up.)

    I also stand by my claim that the Pepe phenomenon is a great example of spontaneous order (of an admittedly juvenile kind). A hundred memes and a million comments churning about in the bowels of the internet, and what emerged was this singular Thing that had so much power even Hillary Clinton decided to declare war on it. Trump had nothing to do with kek’s trajectory.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Y´all seem to miss that Trump was hired.

    Chris B Reply:

    @Michael Rothblatt No, this is liberal historical myth. The assumption you are making that these positions and preferences are inherent and individualy derived is wrong, and has no historical backing. There was no breakdown in culture followed by conflict. This is 180° wrong.

    De Jouvenal points at this being wrong, Moldbug points at this being wrong, and on the religious wars (a myth early liberals created) Cavanaugh provides a debunking of this (in line with Moldbug and De Jouvenal I might add.)

    The patterns is this: the state centralises, controls, atomises, and develops tech. The liberal gets confused and assumes this atomisation (liberalism) is the key somehow and that if we free everyone, then there will be more creativity/competition. It is remarkable.

    [Reply]

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    Oh, I am not assuming anything, I disagree with Seth assertion. I used religion in general sense, as a word to describe the memeplex that produces the person’s Weltanschauung. My point didn’t have anything to do with either the history, or the present state of affairs. Rather, my point was, that you and I for example, will never reach anywhere with our back and forth, you won’t ever convince me to adopt your positions, nor will I convince you to adopt mine. The only way for one to be victorious over the other is the use of violence, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    You are both buried in buckets.

    History ain´t nothing but religious wars. Ideologies now under another name. The Autistic version of History Chris B mandates is a para-Christian fantasy.

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    @G. Eiríksson

    Everyone desires a strongman who shares his own vision of the world to shove it down everyone else’s throat. It’s perfectly normal! Classical Liberal values are an aberration.

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    What if it is a Classical Liberal strongman.

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    Heheh, that’s exactly the problem with Classical Liberalism, it’s impossible to have a Classical Liberal strongman. Classical Liberalism is always doomed to failure wherever it’s introduced. It’s pretty obvious, if you grant freedom to those that want to take yours away, you are certainly going to lose. Of course, some of the smarter Classical Liberals (de Jouvenel, and von Mises come to mind) recognized the fact, and so instead of arguing for freedom of speech and press on the behalf of Communists, they joined fascists (French Popular Party, and Fatherland Front respectively).

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    ▬> Most enlightened monarchs fostered education and allowed religious tolerance, freedom of speech, and the right to hold private property.”

    A Classical Liberal strongman would be one that simply guards the security of the Liberal state and its citizens.

    Perhaps with the Illiberality too of guarding the patriarchy, as it is required for the propagation of the people.

    But considering that ‘liberal’ etymologically means ‘generous’, it isn´t so illiberal.

    Nothing is more generous than generation.

    So kings guard fertility.

    Properly.

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    And what would he do about Communist hooligans? Allow them to spread their mind virus amongst the populace?

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Spy on them. Arrest them if they break laws. As for the populace, those dumb enough to buy into Communism may well do so.

    It only overtook Russia because of Lenin &c. not being spied enough on, not being arrested enough.

    (Counter-)Totalitarianism against Totalitarianism.

    Rome against Carthago.

    Excelsis.

    Wagner Reply:

    I think we’re monkeys more than we think and we’re going to perpetuate the same behavior. “Monkey” itself is for us a religious word, and that should give us pause. Darwinism is a monkey belief.

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Kiddo, it´s the details that makes it interesting. Blank slating it off as “monkeys” is an egalitarianism.

    Rome prided itself on outlawing Human Sacrifice, while Etruria and Pune performed darker rites.

    R. J. Moore II Reply:

    No you’re getting it wrong. The Alt-Right is politically meaningless and permanently ineffective. What happened is that popular revolt and illegitimacy undermined the workings of the media and they looked for a scapegoat. As the AltRight are very vocal and offensive to cat ladies they were chosen. But Trump is not right wing, the AltRight are less important in politics than the Amish, and real people don’t give a shit about white nationalism.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    LOL!

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 15th, 2016 at 11:53 pm Reply | Quote
  • John Hannon Says:

    “Will the next Martin Luther be a stand up comedian rather than a priest?”

    Well the Cathedral jesters are still in rude health: “Four years of comedy gold coming up,” as Ian Hislop smirked on HIGNFY. And even the right-on lefty ones must secretly be chuffed that they’re never going to be short of material in the foreseeable future, just as their predecessors were secretly grateful to Thatcher for their careers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b081tjhg#play

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 12:26 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    You demonstrate integrity again Dr. Land, Bravo.

    As to where this takes us….Gnon only knows.

    And Gnon only knows the winner.

    By the way it’s only been a week.

    He’s not in office yet.

    PS if you’re focusing on the appointments you’re looking right where Trump wants you to…

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 1:19 am Reply | Quote
  • SanguineEmpiricist Says:

    There’s actually such a thing as classical NRx, now what material do we introduce everyone to? I thought it would be good for awhile.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 2:37 am Reply | Quote
  • froth_city Says:

    /pol/ literally baited Hillary Clinton into declaring war on a cartoon frog.

    Sad!

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 3:49 am Reply | Quote
  • Wagner Says:

    RE: the subordination of intelligence

    Peter Thiel essentially wears a button that reads, “I own (pwn) Mencius Moldbug”.

    Trump, the candidate that Thiel monetarily and verbally backed, has won.

    The order of rank seems to be:

    Trump

    Thiel

    Yarvin

    Land

    And below that a motley gang of alt-alt and alt-right goons

    We need to keep Moldbug’s key insight about the Antiversity alive: it lives on truth.

    Simple as that. But when intelligence is subordinated to power (Trump) and money (Thiel) intellectual subtlety (Moldbug) and finesse (Land) is lost along the way.

    Moldbug and Land WILL be swept up in the subordination of intelligence to power and money.

    They will and they already have been. Subconsciously more than anything.

    Therefore in order to preserve the Antiversity an Antiantiversity that is divorced from the influences of power and money is necessary. Truth is the highest good. We are going to lose many of our brothers to power and money throughout Trump’s presidency. It is a good time now to start figuring out how to prevent that from happening.

    [Reply]

    Cryptogenic Reply:

    If anyone wants me to be lost to power and money, pls get in touch thx. Pretty sure Land is open to moar power and money.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    I am the cruel one, Isfet lives in me
    I am the power and total victory
    I’m the murderer, who refuses to submit

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    Cryptogenic, your saccharine sycophancy is like clockwork. “The Donald” is a demagogue and Thiel is a libertarian. Those kinds of wagons only harness wild horses that have been broken to be jackass-like.

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 4:15 am Reply | Quote
  • Wagner Says:

    “The quasi-universal authority of a church died (as a result of techonomic media innovation, among other factors).”

    Theonomy, ethno-nationalism, etc.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 4:57 am Reply | Quote
  • Anon Says:

    http://www.holyfucktheelection.com/

    People are having meltdowns. Too funny.

    Also, I’m sure others have noticed the tendency of progs to over-use curse words but what is the explanation? Lack of a wide vocabulary?

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 5:45 am Reply | Quote
  • Butler Says:

    With the demographic replacement of American WASPs now locked in, 11 million illegals or not, I disagree that Trump can be considered any more than a trifling, tactical defeat in a minor skirmish.

    If you look at this and see victory, your time-horizon is a lot, lot closer than it needs to be. The Cathedral has already won the long game, which makes the tribulations of the short game an irrelevance.

    If the exact same campaign season of 2016 had been run in 2020 or, indeed, any year in the future, the Dems would have won on demographics alone.
    I agree with the talking heads on this one: the election was the death gasp of white supremacy. After this, it’s blue all the way.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    What in your opinion is to be done then?

    [Reply]

    Waycis Reply:

    Give up goy.

    By the way, Niggers and Beaners aren’t actually filling up their populations much for all the immigration. Deport Beaners (or at least the Beaners who aren’t European enough), remove taxation of Whites, end regulations encouraging hiring Beaners and getting in the way of rural business like hospitals, have more restrictions on immigration, reform welfare, the GOP can secure itself for over a decade.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 5:58 am Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    Funny, I sent this mail the day before this post. (The “later” part is just humour.) :

    Matthew, I warn you: many things will come loose.

    Your dreaded apocalypse is sooner

    or later than anticipated

    now…. cast

    die

    http://i.imgur.com/f6Nywof.png

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 7:07 am Reply | Quote
  • ill Says:

    @WagnerKek frowns upon you.

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    Kek is a false idol.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    What isn´t a false idol?

    Ultimately it´s all an idol of GNON. Gnow what I mean?

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    “There is an innocence in lying which is the sign of good faith in a cause.” (NTZSCH)

    Wagner Reply:

    My position is that if NRx is to be a non-populist movement it has to proceed with a priest-awareness. We have to walk the tightrope of telling noble lies and at the same time not forgetting that they are lies. Burnham points out that elites fall short of scientificity in directing the mass because in order to *sincerely* tell the lie one must forget it is a lie. Saying this will piss priest-types off and they won’t be able to condemn me because to do so would be to expose themselves as agents of the lie. It’s the Frogs versus the Chandalas, pick a side.

    Wagner Reply:

    Is it any coincidence that Kek is an Egyptian god? Whites just can’t get enough of those mud people.

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Whites were Egyptians. Egyptians were White. We wuz kingz. I don´t believe in lies.

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 9:16 am Reply | Quote
  • darkreformation101 Says:

    I have been hard at work producing a systematic exposition of Moldbug’s thought: the Ten Pillars Of Mencius Moldbug. It is huge, but it should be ready shortly. I think the following is pertinent to this discussion.

    (From Pillar 8: The Cathedral.)

    What is it then that teaches people to believe in the “fiction” that democracy, and the Universalist belief system is true, good and beautiful?

    What the West has, instead of democracy, is what Moldbug calls either the Modern Structure, the Polygon, or the term that has stuck the most —the Cathedral.

    Simply put, the Cathedral is the system that produces, distributes and implements the information (memes) that maintains control of public opinion:

    “The basic premise of UR is that all the competing 20th-century systems of government, including the Western democracies which came out on top and which rule us to this day, are best classified as Orwellian. They maintain their legitimacy by shaping public opinion. They shape public opinion by sculpting the information presented to the public. As part of that public, you peruse the world through a lens poured by your government. Ie: you are pwned.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html

    An elegant definition and explanation of the Cathedral system is provided below:

    “But first, let’s nail down our terms. The great power center of 2008 is the Cathedral. The Cathedral has two parts: the accredited universities and the established press. The universities formulate public policy. The press guides public opinion. In other words, the universities make decisions, for which the press manufactures consent. It’s as simple as a punch in the mouth.

    The Cathedral operates as the brain of a broader power structure, the Polygon or Apparat – the permanent civil service. The Apparat is the civil service proper (all nonmilitary officials whose positions are immune to partisan politics, also known as “democracy”), plus all those formally outside government whose goal is to influence or implement public policy – ie, NGOs. (There’s a reason NGOs have to remind themselves that they’re “non-governmental.”)”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/ol8-reset-is-not-revolution.html

    Moldbug on NGOs:

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/your-goverment-in-pictures-1954.html

    The Nature of the Cathedral.

    “In the long run, power in a democracy belongs to its information organs: the press, the schools, and most of all the universities, who mint the thoughts that the others plant. For simplicity, we have dubbed this complex the Cathedral.

    The Cathedral is a feedback loop. It has no center, no master planners. Everyone, even the Sulzbergers, is replaceable. In a democracy, mass opinion creates power. Power diverts funds to the manufacturers of opinion, who manufacture more, etc. Not a terribly complicated cycle.

    This feedback loop generates a playing field on which the most competitive ideas are not those which best correspond to reality, but those which produce the strongest feedback. The Cathedral is constantly electing a new people who (a) support the Cathedral more and more, and (b) support a political system which makes the Cathedral stronger and stronger.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/olxiv-rules-for-reactionaries.html

    Again, notice the focus on feedback loops which is a sign of systems thinking. Secondly, as the above passage makes clear, the Cathedral is not a conspiracy. There is no cabal. It is coherent without any coordinator; it moves in a clear (leftward) direction without any director. This is one of the most important claims Moldbug makes: the left-ward drift in society is a consequence of a reinforcing feedback loop that selects those ideas and people useful for the system to maintain command and control of the system and people (the stock); this control, of course, allows the system to perpetuate itself — the memetic “reproductive cycle” if you will.

    The purpose of the Cathedral, and the Brahmin/institutionalists who staff it, is to prevent the *people* (Vaisya/Populists/) exercising power or influence over the government who are their caste rivals:

    “To the institutionalist, the way democracy works is that democracy depends on the educated voter. The voter is to be educated by institutionalists, of course, because institutionalists are right. Some level of ignorance and recalcitrance can be expected, and there will always be dissent, but through this cycle of education and election we are always advancing into the future. The reason we have elected officials is not so that they can manage the government, a task which must of course be left to the experts (who are institutionalists, of course). Rather, officials such as the President are essentially educational figures, participating in a public discourse in which the “bully pulpit” – an oddly revealing term – delivers further education. In turn, by electing a good President, the voters demonstrate the depth of their educated wisdom. Und so weiter.

    Note the function of populist and tribal voters in the institutionalist’s mind. The populist electorate supplies the bogeyman. The fear of a populist takeover, which is theoretically always a possibility and has even happened once or twice in history (eg, Nazi Germany), can keep even the most jaded of institutionalist voters coming back to the polls. Even though it never seems to actually happen. Moreover, the populists are barraged by a flood of institutionalist messages more or less from birth to death. They are naturally resistant, but the programming wears them down over time.

    As for the institution itself – the Cathedral – it is, except in its majestic extent and intricacy, not unusual by any historical standard. The Cathedral is a selective aristocracy, which is more or less the way China was run for about 2500 years. It is also the way the Soviet Union was run, the way the Catholic Church was run, the way China today is run, and the way Nazi Germany probably would have been run if we still had a Nazi Germany to kick around. As in all these institutions, rank and place in it is in high demand, and those who rise to the top are men and women of no mean capacity.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/patchwork-3-what-we-have-and-whats-so.html

    However, Moldbug claims that that this system is not only irresponsible, incoherent, ineffective and out of control, it is, in fact, breaking down:

    “However, there is just one little problem: the Cathedral is not responsible. At least, if it is responsible, we cannot detect any mechanism by which it is responsible.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/patchwork-3-what-we-have-and-whats-so.html

    The consequences of the Cathedral:

    “One, the influence of elected politicians over the actual process of government decreases. This represents the ongoing triumph of the Modern Structure over its ancestor. Indeed the charge that elected officials have excessive influence over government is a routine form of scandal, despite the obvious and never-explained weirdness of the charge.

    Two, institutions become more and more corrupt, grossly misdirecting resources in obviously self-serving ways, and becoming utterly incapable of doing anything like their jobs. This is obviously the inevitable result of unaccountable institutions, of which we now have quite a few. And the Mugwump civil-service state is a synonym for unaccountability

    And this is the Modern Structure: the predictable product of a botched surgery on the Republic, a (second) attempt to do away with democracy without actually doing away with democracy. (The first was the Constitution itself.) When will people learn? Not soon, I fear.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified_19.html

    The memetic software operating on the Modern Structure’s hardware, or the belief system preached by the Brahmins in the Cathedral, is Universalism or cryptocalvinism. This software or belief system is the moral/political formula which “serve primarily as a justification for the rule of the cryptocalvinist establishment, or Polygon, and that they are a major cause of corruption, tyranny, poverty and war.”

    (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/cryptocalvinism-slightly-tweaked.html)

    It is now breaking down:

    “Democracy, like all conventions of limited war, is fragile. It’s hard to establish and easy to destroy. One of my main concerns is that I think the principal check that keeps the US from degenerating into actual violence is the 75-year-old informational dominance of “responsible” broadcast and newspaper journalism. This system is dying. It is being replaced by people like Amanda Marcotte and Michelle Malkin. And their followers, if not them personally, seem to have enough pure, 24-karat hate stored up for ten or fifteen really juicy civil wars.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2007/05/bdh-ov-conflict_07.html

    It should be clear by now that Moldbug is a deeply systematic thinker.

    If the Cathedral, despite its flaws, is breaking down, violence — mass political violence — is likely to follow. Moldbug’s work is all geared to preventing that from happening. Whatever one might think of the Cathedral, and modern life in the West, we should not be deluded by the assumption that civil war and mass political violence would be an improvement.

    One of the reasons that the system is breaking down is because of the Internet. In the West, for the moment, the Internet is more or less unregulated. Information that has been excluded and suppressed in the schools, universities and mass media now exists for everyone to see on the Internet.

    Moldbug’s Cathedral evokes the Catholic Church prior to the Reformation. The Internet is, therefore, analogously, the new printing press which helped spread subversive ideas (which is one of the reasons for the name of this blog).

    The system is breaking down because the formal meaning of democracy — that a government is only legitimate if it has “mass support” — is beginning to falter. Is it, therefore, surprising that the Brahmins are importing millions of third-world immigrants at an ever greater clip to compensate for this fact?

    “One way to elect a new people is to import them, of course. For example, to put it bluntly, the Democratic Party has captured California, once a Republican stronghold, by importing arbitrary numbers of Mexicans. Indeed the Third World is stocked with literally billions of potential Democrats, just waiting to come to America so that Washington can buy their votes. Inner Party functionaries cackle gleefully over this achievement.”

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/olxiv-rules-for-reactionaries.html

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Good job, DRFM101.

    Moldbug tho, is missing a lot of the actual workings. Skull & Bones is real, transgenerational Intelligence(Assassination&Theft)-Military-Entrepreneur dynasties are real. Etc.

    Some dude, on of the chief architects of 5GW theory came sort of close somtiems.

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    The Military-Industrial-Sysadmin Complex (MISC) is a broader version of Thomas P.M. Barnett’s “Department of Everything Else (DOEE).” While Barnett’s DOEE takes on, the “miscellaneous” functions of the federal government involved in processing politically bankrupt states, the MISC is the broader structure which keeps the long war going.

    The Military-Industrial-Sysadmin-Complex must be built around an Iron Triangle of Congress, the Department of Everything Else, and Sysadmin Contractors.

    A Typical Iron Triangle
    Each edge of the MISC supports each other. The Virutal Department of Everything Else funnels money to contractors. The contractors provide jobs for voters and therefore votes for incumbent Congressmen. Congressmen fund the Virtual Department of Everything Else.

    The Iron Triangle that will Shrink the Gap
    Just as the Military-Industrial-Leviathan-Complex that won the Cold War existed in all its pieces before the National Security Act of 1947, each part of the Iron Triangle can be assembled from politicians
    ▬▬▬
    http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/07/describing-the-military-industrial-sysadmin-complex-how-we-will-win-the-5gw-to-shrink-the-gap.html
    ▬▬▬[End of quote.]

    E.g. the Soviet Union didn´t just “collapse.” It was a dynasty operation for the chief architects of NEW WORLD ORDER, olden goodie of a plan.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 9:52 am Reply | Quote
  • Xoth Says:

    Seems a bit early to call the Cathedral dying or collapsing though. The Media tentacle has been stung, but the others are essentially unharmed.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 16th, 2016 at 1:23 pm Reply | Quote
  • Wagner Says:

    I’ve been propagandizing Land for a few years now and it’s funny that his earlier stuff is more receivable by the demos. Lots of trannies are into early Land, specifically. It’s like he went from ringleading one troop of circus freaks to another (us). Special guy, one of my heroes, but if early Land is receivable by the demos, could it be that we are the new demos? Jus sayin. Untimeliness can happen in hundred year intervals and it can happen in five year intervals.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 12:46 am Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    @G. Eiríksson Reply:
    November 16th, 2016 at 4:26 pm

    So Nietzsche made a flowery pronouncement he pulled out of his ass. On the other hand, here is Cavanaugh making a historically backed up point –
    “There is a direct relationship between the success of efforts to restrict supra-national Church authority and the failure of the Reformation within those realms. In other words, wherever concordats between the Papal See and temporal rulers had already limited the jurisdiction of the Church within national boundaries, there the princes saw no need to throw off the yoke of Catholicism, precisely because Catholicism had already been reduced, to a greater extent, to a suasive body under the heel of the secular power.” P4-5
    Wars of religion and rise of the state

    and again in his book:
    “In the late fifteenth century, the civil authorities in England, Sweden, Denmark, and Germany tried—with only partial success—to limit clerical exemptions from civil courts, limit the power of ecclesiastical courts, and transfer church appointments, revenues, and lands to the civil rulers. As Quentin Skinner points out, the Reformation failed in France and Spain, where the monarchies had largely absorbed the church into their clientage systems and therefore had an interest in maintaining the status quo. As Pope Julius III wrote to Henry II of France, “in the end, you are more than Pope in your kingdoms. . . . I know no reason why you should wish to become schismatic.” Where the Reformation succeeded was in England, Scandinavia, and many German principalities, where breaking with the Catholic Church meant that the church could be used to augment the power of the civil authorities. To cite one example, King Gustav Vasa welcomed the Reformation to Sweden in 1524 by transferring the receipt of tithes from the church to the Crown. Three years later, he appropriated the entire property of the church.
    As William Maltby notes, accepting Lutheranism both gave princes an ideological basis for resisting the centralizing efforts of the emperor and gave them the chance to extract considerable wealth from confiscated church properties. Steven Gunn summarizes the situation in these terms: The official adoption of reformed religion contributed to the power of different rulers in different ways. One, Albrecht of Hohenzollern, made a hereditary secular principality for himself from scratch, by secularizing the Prussian branch of the Teutonic Order, of which he was the Grand Master. Many others, notably Henry VIII in England, Gustav Vasa in Sweden, Christian III in Denmark, and a dozen leading German princes, confiscated church property within their territories or absorbed into their states adjoining bishoprics or monastic estates. Most stepped up taxation of the clergy, took control of clerical promotions, and integrated the church courts’ system of moral controls more closely into their own judicial structures. Most took a fi rmer grip on education from school level to the universities, and introduced state-run poor relief to replace the charity of dissolved monasteries and hospitals. . . . Secular and ecclesiastical bureaucracies expanded in parallel and became intertwined, as the Reformation helped consolidate a more intensive form of state. They provided the means to regulate, down to parish level, changes which had the potential to reach every subject.”
    The myth of religious violence

    That quote from the Pope is a killer isn’t it? “I know no reason why you should wish to become schismatic”

    What is interesting is that many historians understand this process in regard to the religious war, because they actually…studied it…unlike liberal theorists and philosophers like Nietzsche.

    Or how about this:
    “”It is unarguably the case that the reinforcement of ecclesiastical difference in early modern Europe was largely a project of state-building elites. As G. R. Elton bluntly puts it, “The Reformation maintained itself wherever the lay power (prince or magistrates) favoured it; it could not survive wherever the authorities decided to suppress it.””

    He has many more examples from this period. I could quote almost the whole thing.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Now, now hold your horses. This otherwise excellent comment doth not disprove Lord Neetzsche, nor was me quoting of him necessarily disproving you.

    It so happened that I had that exact remark of his ready, and saw that it fit with the theme of Largo´s comment.

    I use religion, as he does, as a word to describe the memeplex that produces the person’s weltanschauung.

    In fact, I am so arch-liberal, that I am an ultra-conservative.

    Let us call it ideology or worldview, along with worship and culture. Religion.

    That which binds men to something beyond them. Even an Imperial cult. Keizercultus.

    We are in agreement that the masses do not invent anything per se, but individuals within them do. The masses do not invent, someone of them does. But more, in history, it´s someone not of the masses. ‘Masses’ meaning an unspecified quantity as opposed to a specified class or a lineage, e.g.

    When people say 4Chan invented this, the fact is that it´s mostly a creative class within that community. One person outweighs many others.

    I´ve made this point a few times here, that the so-called Popular Revolutions are created from above. Even the Russian revolution was the work of the Tzar himself!! «The army achieved some early victories (such as in Galicia in 1915 and with the Brusilov Offensive in 1916) but also suffered major defeats, notably Tannenberg in August 1914, the Winter Battle in Masuria in February 1915 and the loss of Russian Poland during May to August 1915. Nearly six million casualties—dead, wounded and missing—had been accrued by January 1917. Mutinies sprang up more often (most due to simple war-weariness), morale was at its lowest, and the (newly called up) officers and commanders were at times very incompetent. Like all major armies, Russia’s armed forces had inadequate supply. The pre-revolution desertion rate ran at around 34,000 a month. Meanwhile, the wartime alliance of industry, Duma and Stavka (Military High Command) started to work outside the Tsar’s control.
    In an attempt to boost morale and repair his reputation as a leader, Nicholas announced in the summer of 1915 that he would take personal command of the army, in defiance of almost universal advice to the contrary. The result was disastrous on three grounds. Firstly, it associated the monarchy with the unpopular war; secondly, Nicholas proved to be a poor leader of men on the front, often irritating his own commanders with his interference; and thirdly, being at the front made him unavailable to govern. This left the reins of power to his wife, the German Tsarina Alexandra, who was unpopular and accused of being a spy and under the thumb of her confidant Grigori Rasputin, himself so unpopular that he was assassinated by members of the nobility in December 1916. The Tsarina proved an ineffective ruler in a time of war, announcing a rapid succession of different Prime Ministers and angering the Duma. The lack of strong leadership is illustrated by a telegram from Octobrist politician Mikhail Rodzianko to the Tsar on 11 March [O.S. 26 February] 1917, in which Rodzianko begged for a minister with the “confidence of the country” be instated immediately. Delay, he wrote, would be “tantamount to death”.
    On the home front, a famine loomed and commodities became scarce due to the overstretched railroad network. Meanwhile, refugees from German-occupied Russia came in their millions. The Russian economy, which had just seen one of the highest growth rates in Europe, was blocked from the continent’s markets by the war. Though industry did not collapse, it was considerably strained and when inflation soared, wages could not keep up. The Duma (lower house of parliament), composed of liberal deputies, warned Tsar Nicholas II of the impending danger and counselled him to form a new constitutional government, like the one he had dissolved after some short-term attempts in the aftermath of the 1905 Revolution. The Tsar ignored the advice.[citation needed] Historian Edward Acton argues that “by stubbornly refusing to reach any modus vivendi with the Progressive Bloc of the Duma… Nicholas undermined the loyalty of even those closest to the throne [and] opened an unbridgeable breach between himself and public opinion.” In short, the Tsar no longer had the support of the military, the nobility or the Duma (collectively the élites), or the Russian people. The result was revolution. »

    Oops!

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    As I am more conservative than you, you will find that I regard even the rebellions of your German princes as a religious affair, altho it would seem to you to be a mundane affair. A worldly affair, of gold and power. But these are under the auspices of gods. Plutus, and Kratos, respectively—perhaps. Or family tutelages. Who knows what daimons drove them.

    [Reply]

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    What’s so controversial or new about all this? Everybody and his grandma knows that rulers used Protestantism as a push towards absolute Power. Maybe you guys from Protestant countries learned in history classes that Protestantism was about corruption in the church, but elsewhere it is basic knowledge that Protestant so-called churches were either bands of socialist cultists or personal “churches” of esurient tyrants.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Don´t be silly, the RCC was selling indulgences!

    In fact, many popes had been antiChrists.

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    How long did Thomas’s eloquent rationalist apology of the faith last before old Luther nailed his theses? Not long. Makes you wonder if that was symptomatic of Thomism’s deficiency.

    Michael Rothblatt Reply:

    So what? Sola fide is several orders of magnitude worse error.

    Wagner Reply:

    It was an error to replace sparagmos and omophagia with crackers and grape juice.

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 4:06 am Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    On the point of death the patriarch said:
    “Don’t bury me in a common grave,
    But in an unusual, comfortable family vault”.

    You must build my tomb according to my wishes
    To prevent that my mortal remains
    Should return from Hell, to spread the disease I had when I lived.

    Money and success, you were my only reason of life.
    Candles, tombstones, will be my company in this family vault.

    Listen to me said the patriarch
    I can see next to me the reaper
    My time is almost through, you must promise me to respect my will.

    The heritage I leave to all you still living
    Goes beyond all my material wealth
    You’ll discover it and then understand in my burial place.

    Money and success, you were my only reason of life.
    Candles, tombstones, will be my company in this family vault.

    You must build my tomb with your guilty deeds
    Every brick can bind one of your sins
    And cement the blood of my cursed youth that won’t come back.

    The deeds of all men survive eternal rest
    And I hope that my building will help
    People that will come in this evil life, to understand.
    Money and success, you were my only reason of life.
    Candles, tombstones, will be my company in this family vault.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 9:39 am Reply | Quote
  • R. J. Moore II Says:

    With the demographic replacement of American WASPs now locked in, 11 million illegals or not, I disagree that Trump can be considered any more than a trifling, tactical defeat in a minor skirmish.
    If you look at this and see victory, your time-horizon is a lot, lot closer than it needs to be. The Cathedral has already won the long game, which makes the tribulations of the short game an irrelevance.
    If the exact same campaign season of 2016 had been run in 2020 or, indeed, any year in the future, the Dems would have won on demographics alone.
    I agree with the talking heads on this one: the election was the death gasp of white supremacy. After this, it’s blue all the way.
    [Reply]

    Yes, the collapse of the imperial administration on the American continent is the only way whitey gets his own country – and he’ll still be surrounded by Brasil. The AltRight are going to either be butthurt or just become normie Republicans once they figure out that literally nobody gives a shit about them, including Trump.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 2:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    ▬ « Scientific socialism, is the most religious of all religions, and the true Social Democrat is the most deeply religious of all human beings. »
    — Anatoly Lunacharsky, 1907. Bolshevik and the People´s Minister of Education by 1917.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 5:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    @Michael Rothblatt

    If you think that corruption does not give way to more corruption, often, ….

    Revolutions do not appear out of vacuums.

    as a student of Christianity:

    RCC was pagan.

    🙈🙉🙊

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 7:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • R. J. Moore II Says:

    @Michael Rothblatt
    If you think that corruption does not give way to more corruption, often, ….
    Revolutions do not appear out of vacuums.
    as a student of Christianity:
    RCC was pagan.

    [Reply]

    There is no such thing as true Christianity. It’s a polyglot movement with Greek philosophy, mystery cults, Gnosticism and Roman state religion in its background. It existed in multiple overlapping forms before it was ever Catholicized, a process that took many years. The Apostles and Jesus never even existed, these are historicized myths.
    Marcion is Paul is Simon Magus.
    Jews weren’t even uniform monotheists at the time Christianity was developing.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    There´s no good and there´s not even a true Christianity, what´s next?

    No true Autocracy, no true Republic, no true Libertarians,

    no evil, no god, empires are not true either,

    are there true Nazis? true Jews?

    any good people?

    or just

    0

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    *S. C. Hickman voice*

    Not even 0.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJSv0nQp5Xs

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    You have an illness that makes you associate goodness with femininity. Did any family member abuse you?

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Seriously, that there´s “No true Christianity” is as mute as there being a “No true Neoreaction”, “No true burger” (because there´s a variety of burgers), “No true democracy”, etc.

    It´s as meaningless as saying that there´s no good or no evil, or no Rock music.

    Because these things have often been defined: they are.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 7:19 pm Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    We have a new michael — it is R. J. Moore II.

    A hard boiled answer for everything.

    From an edgy know-it-all.

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Just kidding, no one can replace michael.

    I welcome R. J. Moore II´s posts.

    These are fine topics

    to breach.

    [Reply]

    Wagner Reply:

    michael is still here in the silence of unopened pickle jars

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 8:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    ▬ Dimitry V. Pospielovsky. A History of Soviet Atheism in Theory, and Practice, and the Believer, vol 1: A History of Marxist-Leninist Atheism and Soviet Anti-Religious Policies, St Martin’s Press, New York (1987) pg 13 “It was obvious at this point that reading Feuerhach was not the only source of inspiration for Marx’s atheism. The fascination with Feuerbach’s war against Christianity was for young Marx nothing more than an expression of his own readiness to pursue in an antireligious struggle all the social and political extremes that materialistic determination required in principle. Yet, as David Aikman, in his most profound and erudite study of Marx and Marxism, notes, the clue to Marx’s passionate and violent atheism, or rather anti-theism, cannot be found in an intellectual tradition alone. He traces Marx’s anti-theism to the young Marx’s preoccupation with the Promethean cult of ‘Satan as a destroyer ”

    ▬ Dimitry V. Pospielovsky. A History of Soviet Atheism in Theory, and Practice, and the Believer, vol 1: A History of Marxist-Leninist Atheism and Soviet Anti-Religious Policies, St Martin’s Press, New York (1987) pg 11 “At this point young Marx was completely fascinated by Feuerbach’s ‘humanistic zest’, and he adopted Feuerbach’s open rebellion against the powerful tradition of Christianity unconditionally as an intellectual revelation. Very early in his career, Marx bought the seductive idea that the higher goals of humanity would justify any radicalism, not only the intellectual kind but the social and political as well.”

    ▬ Dimitry V. Pospielovsky. A History of Soviet Atheism in Theory, and Practice, and the Believer, vol 1: A History of Marxist-Leninist Atheism and Soviet Anti-Religious Policies, St Martin’s Press, New York (1987) pg 12 ” Obviously Marx began his own theory of reality with an incomplete intellectual disdain for everything that religious thought, represented, theoretically, practically or emotionally. The cultural contributions of religion over the centuries were dismissed as unimportant and irrelevant to the well-being of the human mind.”

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 17th, 2016 at 8:27 pm Reply | Quote
  • Martin Says:

    I’d rephrase “universal tyranny of a quasi-Church’ (Kalb “Liberalism as Religion”). The authority of the Church remains, but it didn’t exercise it prudently and so resentful elements were able to brake what shouldn’t have been broken, the only true unity in diversity, Christendom.

    “Tyranny is the opposite of authority. For authority simply means right; and nothing is authoritative except what somebody has a right to do, and therefore is right in doing. It often happens in this imperfect world that he has the right to do it and not the power to do it. But he cannot have a shred of authority if he merely has the power to do it and has not the right to do it. ” GK Chesterton http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/As_I_Was_Saying.html

    [Reply]

    G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Appropos, Chesterdom quote, Martin!

    Poor Chesterton tho is maintaining the Christian schizophrenia that might doesn´t make right. As if the moral is divorced from might or power, which it certainly isn´t. Morality wins wars. How? First the enemy is morally defeated, typically, before it lays down its weapons. It is morally defeated anyway, even if it fights til the end. The victors mores of war won.

    Morality is custom and spirit, and thus long-term effects in short-term effects.

    These concepts have been lost to modern folk, except to the brightest.

    Last time man had a nonschizophrenic view of the world

    was in the heathen roman empire, before decline.

    This is in the Art of War, too, and the Tao.

    This is in every victor ever.

    This is in me.

    Hail.

    [Reply]

    Posted on November 19th, 2016 at 2:40 am Reply | Quote

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