Scrap note #4

Into the closing days of this Cambodian escape, I’m now in Kep, on the coast of the Gulf of Thailand. It’s an interesting place (which I’ll say something about in the Cambodia scrap log). Note the link there? There haven’t been any of those for a while. The reason it has now become possible is the Kep Lodge guest computer, which leaves my tablet in the dust. Links, cursor control, copy-and-paste … ecstasy. So I have to try and seize the opportunity …

Starting meta, there are two media-reaction compilation resources which everyone needs to know about (and I’m sure just about everyone already does). Both are finding it increasingly difficult to keep up. Handle’s (here) might by updating sluggishly for a few weeks, because the Hausmeister is taking a well-earned break. It might fall upon Amos & Gromar (here) to track developments, which are getting steadily more encouraging.

The American Thinker isn’t exactly MSM, but it’s still highly significant that Christopher Chantrill has written the first Dark Enlightenment commentary for a relatively mainstream conservative site that doesn’t engage in any skirt-clutching whatsoever. It’s a short, friendly piece that is best understood as a deliberate exercise in de-toxification. Prediction: this brewing media storm is going to start opening consequential fault-lines in the conservative movement, which as far as any DE strategic schedule is concerned, gets us to first base. It follows, of course, that establishment conservative responses will get even more hysterical (and that also counts as a win).

Some substantial engagement from beyond the reactosphere is also in prospect from Adam Gurri (who has some genuinely productive lines of criticism). There’s also Patri Friedman (link?– can’t get it to work from here),  who commits to exploring “a more politically correct dark enlightenment” (via @MikeAnissimov twitter) which has to — at the very least — be extremely entertaining. Given the prevailing distribution of forces, confusion has to be our friend (right?).

Related developments of interest include a tendency within the HBD ‘community’ to seize the ‘Dark Enlightenment’ (brand) for themselves, chucking out all the awkward right-wingery (via rumorous twitter). I’ve no sense at all of the mechanism by which ‘they’ think they can achieve that, but the impulse is disorganizing, and therefore probably to be approved (although, of course, at the same time fiercely contested).

Accepting that chaos is ‘bad’, it seems to me that it is especially bad for our opponents, whose piecemeal suppression strategy requires social conditioning by a maximally-simple aversion response. Their stage-1 campaign is based on something like a “Neoreaction — yuk, Nazis!” reflex. Anything that leads instead to “What? Hang on a minute …” reaction counts (for them) as a major fail. There can be no serious doubt that we’re well into that (as the comment threads of all the hit-pieces so far attest). So, prediction-2: we’re going to see a second phase hostile media approach emerging really soon — over the next few months — adapted to important constituencies who are refusing the desired stimulus-response programming. I’ve no idea what this will look like, but it’s almost bound to be more intellectually engaging than anything we’ve seen so far.

Some straggly extras:

At the risk of getting Matt Sigl into trouble, it’s quite obvious that he’s a thoughtful guy who deserves better editors. Are we going to see another piece by him (stripped of the Cathedral tics) some time this year?

Tim Stanley is a pathetic tool, but there are some impressive Telegraph writers (Ed West, James Dellingpole …), are they going to jump in at some point?

If the Telegraph can be cracked (still uncertain), how about the National Review? If Steyn has problems with us, they won’t be stupid, and he really doesn’t like witch hunters.

We’ll get so bored by this expression, if we aren’t already, but — interesting times.

ADDED: See this by Amos & Gromar. The people who seem to be getting front rank exposure in the current media wave are Mencius Moldbug (naturally), Michael Anissimov, and me. To make a very obvious point explicit, however, this is wildly disproportionate, and — I suspect — not long sustainable. Moldbug is a transcendental master, about whom enough can never be said, but Mike and I are both highly atypical representatives of (very different) neoreactionary extremes. If Amos & Gromar (for non-random instance) was shifted to center stage, the whole phenomenon would become vastly more sane. (In this particular case, I suspect that an A&G has a branding issue, because media get confused about ‘who’ exactly they’re pointing at — and frankly I think I’m pretty good at that stuff. MARKETING people!)

ADDED: Nicholas Pell has written a thoughtful piece on the DE for takimag that has garnered glowing responses from all corners so far. (I’m certainly highly appreciative.)

ADDED: John Derbyshire is in the house.

ADDED: The Daily Telegraph is done:

January 28, 2014admin 44 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Uncategorized

44 Responses to this entry

  • EddyB Says:

    > there are some impressive Telegraph writers (Ed West, James Dellingpole …),
    > are they going to jump in at some point?

    Ed West left The Telegraph a few months ago; he now writes for The Spectator, and at his own site, http://www.edwest.co.uk/

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Thanks, noted.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 3:36 pm Reply | Quote
  • Stirner Says:

    It will get extremely interesting if the mainstream conservative sites start generating critiques of the DE. A fair minded critique would necessarily have to cede ground on some of the fundamental precepts of the DE, even if they attack some of the particulars. That is a win for NeoReaction by clicking the rhetorical ratchet in our favor.

    Another source of attack with likely be click bait attacks. Articles by the The Blaze or Breitbart that make few substantive attacks, but instead engage in delivering some moral preening and posturing for their audience. It might be a drip, drip, drip of articles along the lines of “Look at what these NeoReactionaries are saying now!” They get traffic, we get attention, so this is win-win.

    As we can tell from the anti-DE articles to date, there are loads of proto-Reactionaries out there lurking in the comment sections of highly trafficked websites. Within a few months they are all going to become aware of the Dark Enlightenment, and a significant number will start the journey of rebooting their political precepts. I see this all the time on the Ace of Spades HQ website, where a significant number of commenters have adopted the “Let it Burn” philosophy, realizing that the problem is not really Obama, but that the US has an electorate that could elect – and then re-elect – such a charlatan. They have adopted the LIB philosophy because there is seemingly no other option, but soon the Dark Enlightenment will loom as a potential hope for changing the course of where we are all going.

    And of course, eventually Drudge will link to one of the articles on the Dark Enlightenment or NeoReaction. That will be the big-time, folks!

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    ‘Yes’ to all that.

    [Reply]

    neovictorian23 Reply:

    Having worked in US state-level politics fro almost 20 years (and thankfully, having left it about a year ago) I recall a state senator I worked for who was regularly attacked by a prog columnist at the state’s largest newspaper, who called him “The Ayatollah,” “the bedroom police,” “a man who wants women out of the office and in the kitchen,” etc, etc.

    Every time one of these pieces ran, praise and money flowed in from “our people” around the state.

    Almost a year went by without anything, and at a strategy meeting I said, “Is there any way we can get Mikey to write another vicious attack?!” And everybody laughed, then looked serious… 🙂

    Many of “our people” at this moment range from vague suspicion to certainty that there is a wrongness in the body politic. Silly name-calling by the Mark Sheas of the world is helpful, reasonable criticism by intellectual conservatives is excellent, but over-the-top, obviously biased caricatures by highly-trafficked progs are pure gold.

    Also, Instapundit would probably be amenable to a “reader book link” to Laliberte’s What is Neoreaction or some other suitable tome.

    In fact I’ll send that in right now.

    [Reply]

    James James Reply:

    We need more books, as an alternative to directing people to long primary sources (Moldbug, Land) or blogs.

    Laliberte’s “What is Neoreaction” is basically the only secondary source/book we’ve got, but it needs an editor to make it a good introduction.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 4:28 pm Reply | Quote
  • Contemplationist Says:

    A bit off topic but check out the comments on this uncharacteristically sensible piece from the Economist.

    The hysteria and sputtering rage in the comments for a suggestion that used to be utterly mundane only two decades ago indicates decline aplenty.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 4:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    @Contemplationist – the Economist is pushing privatization for the same reason that the Stanley Fischer Ivy League Mafia is now at the Fed: Neo-Liberal Shock Therapy ala the Rape of Russia has come for it’s next victm – The United States. We’re talking low range tens of Trillions to High Range hundreds of Trillions in real assets, as opposed to zero/one money.

    That’s real wealth.

    As it turns out the Federal Reserve does have an Exit Plan. I am a fool but not a lonely one for missing that they’d do it again. American Normalcy Bias is enormous and requires repeated Red Pill jagged glass boosters to overcome.

    @Admin/All — “that the US has an electorate that could elect – and then re-elect – such a charlatan” is indeed a problem. The electorate as a teritary order of business for the secondary question of democracy must, must, must be pruned and carefully screened for any possible role in the future. Which it will forcefully demand, that is real.

    I can’t argue with elect/re-elect Charlatan. I can’t defend it, it would be like defending Rap.
    Exactly like defending Rap.

    You should consider however that Democracy has been Stolen is a powerful and real motive for the Metaphor preparing demographic.

    Including the most serious sub-demographic. Which reached unaminity on the metaphor in all private conversations three years ago. They are most serious because they know what they are saying. Many do not.

    What is real exists and must be taken into consideration. Whether it’s optimal or desired or not, it must be acknowledged.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 5:20 pm Reply | Quote
  • Igitur Says:

    Accepting that chaos is ‘bad’, it seems to me that it is especially bad for our opponents, whose piecemeal suppression strategy requires social conditioning by a maximally-simple aversion response. Their stage-1 campaign is based on something like a “Neoreaction — yuk, Nazis!” reflex. Anything that leads instead to “What? Hang on a minute …” reaction counts (for them) as a major fail. There can be no serious doubt that we’re well into that (as the comment threads of all the hit-pieces so far attest). So, prediction-2: we’re going to see a second phase hostile media approach emerging really soon — over the next few months — adapted to important constituencies who are refusing the desired stimulus-response programming. I’ve no idea what this will look like, but it’s almost bound to be more intellectually engaging than anything we’ve seen so far.

    As they say in the vernacular, THIS.

    Thus what I keep saying about not emphasizing identity over strategy. About being able to disperse and regroup, cause revulsion but never really be pinned down anywhere.

    Now, the question is — does NR actually work like this?

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @iggytur

    The Internet works like THIS

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    @VXXC

    I suppose cultural objects don’t exist unless they have a Wikipedia page, these days.

    Luckily, web search directs me to a PDF with an english translation of Mallarmé’s Igitur. It’s an old, throwaway handle; but I became more fond of it for the contrast made with the Coup de dés in Meillassoux’s The number and the siren.

    Now, seriously, Valvar down below is illustrating my point: he’s asking whether we have a spokesman. What I keep on saying: there’s great hazard in selecting spokesmen and perfecting a straw figure for the media to punch through. People can pick Curtis Yarvin to pieces.

    What would be useful is for them to perceive NR as a threat that can’t be quantified or pinned down yet. Usually control of the null hypothesis is control of the narrative, but NR is vastly out-powered rhetorically by the Cathedral as far as taking control of any particular null.

    I will repeat myself: there is something wrong in the world that they can’t avoid anymore. No cures yet; symptoms, and all the better if incoherent ones.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @ Igitur,

    I owe clarity. The Internet meets your RFC.

    “About being able to disperse and regroup,… never really be pinned down anywhere.”

    Internet nee DARPANET was designed to do exactly that. Self healing mesh design, traffic like water finds it’s own best path and so on.

    Mesh is even almost too formal.

    The technology available and dominant shapes human organizations especially in war.

    AQ constantly regengerates because it’s an ad hoc network. Ad hoc networks just happen if everyone has say peer to peer Blackberries [London 2012 rioters].

    So absolutely the requirement is already met. It would be a mistake to graft a head onto this Starfish in an attempt to make it a Spider. @ADMIN

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 6:06 pm Reply | Quote
  • Valvar Says:

    > media get confused about ‘who’ exactly they’re pointing at — and frankly I think I’m pretty good at that stuff. MARKETING people!)

    It is also useful to have a real person-name to point at (Mencius Moldbug isn’t one, but it’s close enough).

    [Reply]

    Stirner Reply:

    John Derbyshire would be a good faceman for the DE.

    Less as a spokesperson, more as an acerbic tour guide to the strange intellectual flora and fauna that has evolved around these parts.

    He is also relatively neutrally positioned in relation to the various camps of NeoReaction. Being a jovial declinist would probably be the best bet for maximum resonation with the public, avoiding some of the quirkier directions of NeoReaction.

    For pure shits and giggles, I want Karl B. of Radish to be NR frontman, for obvious reasons.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Radish as the go-to media reference would be the clearest indication of the End Times I can imagine.

    [Reply]

    Stirner Reply:

    I hear Cthulhu already has him on retainer, alas.

    Karl F. Boetel Reply:

    I AM THE STOAT KING

    FEAR MEH

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Neutrally positioned? He’s a quasi-atheist and doesn’t care much about free trade one way or the other. I’d call him an ethnonationalist to the extent he is anything, but mostly he’s just a curmudgeon and a contrarian. Which are both honorable things to be, don’t get me wrong.

    [Reply]

    James A. Donald Reply:

    John Derbyshire would be a good faceman for the DE.

    Dark Enlightenment is about truth. John Derbyshire still treats official science as if it was something other than a crank religion, with priests dressed in labcoats. Needs to reject all progressive official truth as completely corrupt.

    [Reply]

    VXXC Reply:

    @ Jim ref Derb,

    You wanna win or be pure?

    No enemies to the Right. Except Quislings. Derbyshire is no Quisling.

    Derbyshire has demonstrated public courage at his own cost. It’s far beyond NR, it’s almost certain he’s received death threats over “The Talk” and if it weren’t for Taki he might have trouble earning a living.

    Derb has demonstrated repeated public fearlessness even when it cost him personally. Courage when it costs you is the Test.

    Derb has proven Brave on his Battlefield. This is the Krieg Test.

    Believe me.

    PS – the effect of what he is doing and his methods with statistics use their own weapons against them, with success.

    What – he’s not Holy enough?

    admin Reply:

    @Jim
    Derbyshire is still a conservative by sentiment, with a default respect for existing social institutions (including the scientific establishment). I agree with you, that’s a weakness, and it isn’t going to hold together at this stage of comprehensive cultural ruin. That said, science at least has an intrinsic self-correction mechanism, however deteriorated, so if someone is going to anchor themselves psychologically in an established institution, it might be the best available. In any case, JD doesn’t want to be the front man for anything but himself, and I respect him for that.

    Posted on January 28th, 2014 at 9:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • Peter A. Taylor Says:

    “The Dark Enlightenment has no skin in any established political movement.”

    http://takimag.com/article/overreacting_to_neoreaction_nicholas_james_pell/print

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    It feels weird not to have people calling you names, doesn’t it?

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    It does.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 29th, 2014 at 5:37 am Reply | Quote
  • Igitur Says:

    @VXXC

    Ah, I see. C’est du chiendent, c’est du rhizome.

    I wish admin would download ATP into his Dark Enlightenment already. Haecceity as a kind of pure commitment to reality, stratification as a kind of hierarchy flux, molar/molecular politics, etc. etc. I know, pas d’amis à gauche, but ATP is borderline technology — look up Shimon Naveh to see how useful it can be in asymmetric warfare proper, for example.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    When the accelerationism blogging gets going later in the spring, I’ll be especially susceptible to this kind of agitation.

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    @admin

    Meh. The ‘accelerationists’ (Srnicek and Williams, for one) I’ve read need to read a practical treatise of finance, something like Damodaran on Valuation (something that banal). I can merrily consume a scorching critique of capitalism the way some enjoy alternate-world fantasy fiction, but someone like David Harvey delivers on his promise, while ‘accelerationists’ fall flat. Too much quidditas, I say, and isn’t it the case that all quidditas melts into haecceity?

    I’m judging these people by their ability to exhilarate, of course. What else are they supposed to be doing?

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    By ‘accelerationists’ I don’t mean ‘left accelerationists’ (who are ridiculous).

    Mark Warburton Reply:

    They’re soft targets. If you’re interested, a reader on accelerationism is coming out soon. http://urbanomic.com/pub_accelerate.php

    Posted on January 29th, 2014 at 1:58 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hawk Spitui Says:

    @adminMy first thought about Derb is, has anybody actually asked him what he thinks? My second one is, who’s the hiring manager for this “DE Spokesman” position? What’s it pay, and what are the responsibilities of the position? What are the perks?

    I don’t really think you’re going to have a lot of success appointing an official spokesman. The press has a tendency to quote the people who give them juicy quotes, not necessarily the people who know what they’re talking about.

    OTOH, as a talented professional writer with experience communicating with the public at large, he may be a good candidate for writing “The Neoreactionary Manifesto” or some such, as something of a tour guide or a distillation for the novice, as Stimer suggested.

    As to his “purity”, after causally following NR and DE writings for a little over a year, even I’m entirely clear on What Every True Neoreactionay Believes. What does one have to do to earn their Official Neoractionary Decoder Ring? At this point, neoreaction appears to be, at least to me, more of a direction than a dogma.

    At any rate, Derb seems to fit in well with the DE zeitgeist, if not with all of it’s specific beliefs (which seem to be up for grabs even within the movement itself).

    Perhaps it would be worth talking to him and seeing what service he might be willing to offer.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    There isn’t going to be an “NR spokesman” — but it might still be worth asking where the center of gravity lies. Seems to me, with various efforts to settle on a ‘canon’ or on ‘premises’ that there’s a tendency in this direction.

    “At this point, neoreaction appears to be, at least to me, more of a direction than a dogma.” — Definitely, and I’m not sure it wouldn’t be advantageous to sustain that.

    [Reply]

    Karl F. Boetel Reply:

    in the BreakThruRadio interview, i was asked for NR “doctrine” and said: we have dissent, not doctrine. alas, like all my best non-ferret-related lines, it did not make the final cut.

    “Our brains are full of crazy! And the craziest part is that we think we’re perfectly sane.”

    “Basically, neoreaction is the embodiment of ‘TLDR.’ If you are the sort of person who says ‘TLDR,’ then you can go to hell, because people like you are destroying the world.”

    [Reply]

    neovictorian23 Reply:

    @admin – Agreed, being somewhat amorphous and impossible to pin down is exactly where it’s at, and exactly where it ought to be at, in the present objective material conditions. My personal vision is to prepare the ground for a DE/NR state of some sort, and the opportunity for that is probably 5-15 years in the future.

    What we’ll need to make that reality is not “doctrine” as such to squabble over like Commies, but guiding principles (which are already well formed at this point by the leading lights of High, Medium, Low and Subterranean Theory), and a few dynamic individual Men/Women of Action. Y’know, the First Crusader, Mohammed, Patton, Joan D’Arc type.

    These are much harder to find than theoreticians, but they exist and have always existed.

    Meanwhile, of course there can be no Official Spokesmodel, but a sort of brighter, NR Sarah Palin would sure be useful once television wants someone to roast on newsfauxtainment shows (so they think. Every attack makes it grow. Antifragile). A hot, fertile XX with an encyclopedic knowledge of history and store of gentle putdowns about how Progs send their children to private school, etc.

    Yeah, unfortunately those don’t grow on trees, either. 🙂

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 29th, 2014 at 3:23 pm Reply | Quote
  • Igitur Says:

    Reading the entire thread. Is it just me, or there’s an above-average agitation for concrete, actionable plans? Spokesmen, spokesmodels, plans for the revolution five years down the road…

    I know this isn’t the entire NR crowd — some people who put me off initially by their blogs surprise me in comments elsewhere, actually — but nevertheless it will be interesting to see admin tackle it in the following weeks. If I’m reading the “scrap” threads right, anyway.

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    I tried futilely to embed this in the above comment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXVh3y_FH4A

    [Reply]

    neovictorian23 Reply:

    My Dear Igitur,

    Plans? Concrete or otherwise? No plan survives contact with the enemy. What’s needed now is Wu wei. If Things keep Falling Apart apace there will be no need for major action; what action do the crows take, before feeding gaily on the carcass of the brown bear?

    Did you know that if you deliver a tiny tap to a very large building a wave propagates through the building and returns to the source; and if you tap again at that precise moment the wave goes out again with more energy, again and again, until the whole building sways as if in an earthquake? And all from the most gentle of taps.

    The super-intelligent and comely spokesmodel is gentle humor, but if things develop as we have foreseen then one fine day in the future Fox News is going to want to book a Neoreactionary; a women would leave most of the haters stuttering and incoherent.

    [Reply]

    Igitur Reply:

    @neovictorian23

    Assuming you can estimate clean harmonics for the structural elements of the building, and that ancillary elements aren’t too dampening. There’s a reason why sonic demolition of edifices isn’t such an easy terrorist tactic.

    Curtis Yarvin scored a major coup defining an enemy-figure that may just be a strawman. The Cathedral that’s destroying my world is not the Cathedral destroying your world. Nevermind the frakking Grammies, Agamben and Negri and Sloterdijk are the enemies. (All while I’m kind of sympathetic to the new breed of ‘market monetarists’ advocating nominal GDP targets; some will accept nothing short of Mises-Rothbard supremacism).

    Admin said that a threshold might be approaching well in his early-january prognoses; I didn’t understand him well. One of two things can happen, as I see it now:

    1) This NR ball of kinetic energy falls asleep — and not by occasional friction like this back-and-forth right now, but by gentleman disagreement in the details ballooning to living in different worlds. Frog in a boiling pan, as the americanism goes.

    2) We develop into some kind of body-without-organs mechanism (possibly, maybe preferably without all the deleuzo-pseudoscientological-techspeak; I might just be guilty of pushing a personal religion too far) that works the effect-producing capacity we have, even if only the capacity to creep out for the time being, but leaves the personal convictions and the personal goals as free variables. This is not unlike the Cathedral itself, in mechanism.

    There’s a “middle part” in common. The beginnings and ends couldn’t be more dissimilar.

    I don’t share your views. What I share with you is an interest in effecting (not “affecting”, producing effects) the world, sharing a movement — made of velocity and momentum, rather than physiognomy and genotype. This is actually happening — as repulsive as the “manosphere” within HBD bothers me, it’s different enough from John Norman that I can be part of its movement towards dismantling the White Cathedral (as opposed to a putative counter-Cathedral that might be a proposal, or maybe just a metaphor, for the social operation of the DE).

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    A couple of thoughts on the Cathedral vs. the Dark Enlightenment:

    In Buddhist terms, the Cathedral is full of “expert mind”. They think they have all the answers. In expert mind, there are few possibilities. The DE is full of “beginner mind”. In beginner mind, there are many possibilities.

    The “neo” in neoreactionary means that this beginner mind is the result of a radical disillusionment.

    “These are the only genuine ideas, the ideas of the shipwrecked. All the rest is rhetoric, posturing, farce.” — Søren Kierkegaard

    Posted on January 29th, 2014 at 11:51 pm Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    You don’t want a spokesman, hierarchy, or visible targets.

    Really the Top Spot of Public Enemy #1 Hate.org isn’t desireable, or the number 3 man in AQ.

    I pointed out that Derb passed the courage test, that’s all.

    The Internet itself is a valuable organization to emulate.

    [Reply]

    Peter A. Taylor Reply:

    I don’t know. I think this ferret thing has legs.

    Would a ferret make a good king? A ferret’s got to better than a heron.

    [Reply]

    handle Reply:

    If you’re waiting for the return of kings, then the best symbol is an empty throne. Like Clint Eastwood and the empty chair, or when some Jews leave a space for Elijah at passover. I think I read about a Mormon temple which has a room for Jesus too.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 30th, 2014 at 2:30 am Reply | Quote
  • Igitur Says:

    @Peter A. Taylor

    Beginner mind. Now, there’s something I agree with.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 30th, 2014 at 9:24 am Reply | Quote
  • Valvar Says:

    @

    As Igitur said, actually having a frontman might be a bad idea. Gives them a good strawman to tear apart. If you do want a frontman, I suggest that you choose someone who is suitably raving mad. That, and the ability to maintain an aura of supreme superiority in the face of any monstrous opposition. That’s where the madness kicks in. And that’s why I believe that Mr. Land is an excellent frontman, regardless of his views.

    [Reply]

    Posted on January 30th, 2014 at 9:40 am Reply | Quote
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