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	<title>Comments on: Scrapping</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You must have liked the ending: &lt;i&gt;Or, at least, let&#039;s hope it stays that way.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You must have liked the ending: <i>Or, at least, let&#8217;s hope it stays that way.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Artemisia</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33369</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Artemisia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100255944/the-dark-enlightenment-is-more-sad-than-neo-fascist-scary/ -

&quot;&#039;Because ‘whiteness’ is a limit (pure absence of color), it slips smoothly from the biological factuality of the Caucasian sub-species into metaphysical and mystical ideas. Rather than accumulating genetic variation, a white race is contaminated or polluted by admixtures that compromise its defining negativity – to darken it is to destroy it. The mythological density of these — predominantly subliminal – associations invests white identity politics with a resilience that frustrates enlightened efforts at rationalistic denunciation, whilst contradicting its own paranoid self-representation.&#039;

This paragraph is actually contained within a vaguely negative critique of white nationalism, but it&#039;s hard to tell it&#039;s intention because a) Land can&#039;t write and b) he appears to have a lot of sympathy for the discourse of &quot;whites as victims&quot;.&quot;

This: &quot;...it&#039;s hard to tell it&#039;s intention because a) Land can&#039;t write...&quot; is incredibly amusing.
It&#039;s amusing not just because it&#039;s false and Old Nick actually can write - and is able to do so with a degree of sophistication that can put people off or manipulate unsuspecting readers, but because the author confesses he cannot see &quot;it&#039;s&quot; intention. This is, finally the lovely Soviet formula &quot;I don&#039;t know what this says, but I strongly condemn&quot; admitted. Except that this also simply draws attention to the fact that Old Nick&#039;s intentions are never very clear, are they...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100255944/the-dark-enlightenment-is-more-sad-than-neo-fascist-scary/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100255944/the-dark-enlightenment-is-more-sad-than-neo-fascist-scary/</a> &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8216;Because ‘whiteness’ is a limit (pure absence of color), it slips smoothly from the biological factuality of the Caucasian sub-species into metaphysical and mystical ideas. Rather than accumulating genetic variation, a white race is contaminated or polluted by admixtures that compromise its defining negativity – to darken it is to destroy it. The mythological density of these — predominantly subliminal – associations invests white identity politics with a resilience that frustrates enlightened efforts at rationalistic denunciation, whilst contradicting its own paranoid self-representation.&#8217;</p>
<p>This paragraph is actually contained within a vaguely negative critique of white nationalism, but it&#8217;s hard to tell it&#8217;s intention because a) Land can&#8217;t write and b) he appears to have a lot of sympathy for the discourse of &#8220;whites as victims&#8221;.&#8221;</p>
<p>This: &#8220;&#8230;it&#8217;s hard to tell it&#8217;s intention because a) Land can&#8217;t write&#8230;&#8221; is incredibly amusing.<br />
It&#8217;s amusing not just because it&#8217;s false and Old Nick actually can write &#8211; and is able to do so with a degree of sophistication that can put people off or manipulate unsuspecting readers, but because the author confesses he cannot see &#8220;it&#8217;s&#8221; intention. This is, finally the lovely Soviet formula &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what this says, but I strongly condemn&#8221; admitted. Except that this also simply draws attention to the fact that Old Nick&#8217;s intentions are never very clear, are they&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lesser Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33364</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lesser Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree on entryism, though not for the reasons you state, but that is not what we were originally disputing.

Among other things, order is the efficient and harmonious adaptation of the means to the desirable ends.  Having a leaderless, informal coalition--a &quot;movement of fellow travelers&quot;--is orderly because it is properly adapted to the current situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on entryism, though not for the reasons you state, but that is not what we were originally disputing.</p>
<p>Among other things, order is the efficient and harmonious adaptation of the means to the desirable ends.  Having a leaderless, informal coalition&#8211;a &#8220;movement of fellow travelers&#8221;&#8211;is orderly because it is properly adapted to the current situation.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now Tim Stanley has jumped in, also in the Telegraph (blogs), basically arguing that some ideas are just too damned nasty to reason about. This is the way the Nazis win (as Moldbug warned an age ago in Internet time). When the moralistic fallacy is your only argument, you don’t get to keep anything when your police apparatus comes appart. At least there’s China ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now Tim Stanley has jumped in, also in the Telegraph (blogs), basically arguing that some ideas are just too damned nasty to reason about. This is the way the Nazis win (as Moldbug warned an age ago in Internet time). When the moralistic fallacy is your only argument, you don’t get to keep anything when your police apparatus comes appart. At least there’s China &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter A. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter A. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; it doesn’t believe that anything is worth fighting for&quot;

I can&#039;t find it, but I thought there was a Moldbug quote about the Tea Party movement being like a baseball coach who wants to put in a relief pitcher, but who suddenly realizes that he doesn&#039;t have one.  The only political philosophy on offer is Progressivism.  Voters get to choose between the current package of Progressive policies or the most recent discarded package of Progressive policies, but there&#039;s no choice besides Progressivism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; it doesn’t believe that anything is worth fighting for&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find it, but I thought there was a Moldbug quote about the Tea Party movement being like a baseball coach who wants to put in a relief pitcher, but who suddenly realizes that he doesn&#8217;t have one.  The only political philosophy on offer is Progressivism.  Voters get to choose between the current package of Progressive policies or the most recent discarded package of Progressive policies, but there&#8217;s no choice besides Progressivism.</p>
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		<title>By: Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Kevin C.

You said:

&quot;Or, as Moldbug has pointed out, Leftist-inspired terrorism like that of Bin Laden moves things leftward, while Rightist-inspired terrorism like that of Breivik moves things… leftward as well.&quot;

Questionable paragraph.

Bin Laden was not a leftist. If he referenced leftist themes, it was for PR purposes, to get sympathy. He&#039;s not an American, so what does he care if he moved America leftwards? His followers are moving the (rather large) areas they control dramatically to the right. Rightwards in a way that is rather unpleasant to our sensibilities, but rightwards none the less. Maybe they&#039;ll lose in the end and the Muslim world will react against them by burning their headscarves, but right now they are hanging in there. 

And it&#039;s not clear that Breivik moved things leftwards. His party, the Progress party, lost 12 seats in parliament. But the Conservative party gained 18 seats and Labour lost 9, so the Breivik&#039;s Progress Party and the Conservative party now share power in a coalition, instead of being out of power with Labour ruling. The coalition is going to take measures to restrict immigration. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/01/norway-conservatives-coalition-immigration

Probably only half measures, but not exactly the leftward lurch one might have expected as a consequence of his attack.

I don&#039;t know what the situation is in Norway, but it is remarkable how the English language left doesn&#039;t really talk about Breivik that much. One might have thought they&#039;d be beating us over the head with him. 

That said, your point is not necessarily wrong, you just picked a couple of bad examples. Political violence is often counter-productive and the Western right is especially ill-suited to use it, because it doesn&#039;t believe that anything is worth fighting for.

Best to remain completely legal, denounce / discourage any kind of violence and spread Dark Enlightenment ideas as far as possible in the short window of opportunity that remains before the SPLC and the NSA officially merge and politically incorrect speech becomes entirely (and retroactively) illegal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevin C.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Or, as Moldbug has pointed out, Leftist-inspired terrorism like that of Bin Laden moves things leftward, while Rightist-inspired terrorism like that of Breivik moves things… leftward as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>Questionable paragraph.</p>
<p>Bin Laden was not a leftist. If he referenced leftist themes, it was for PR purposes, to get sympathy. He&#8217;s not an American, so what does he care if he moved America leftwards? His followers are moving the (rather large) areas they control dramatically to the right. Rightwards in a way that is rather unpleasant to our sensibilities, but rightwards none the less. Maybe they&#8217;ll lose in the end and the Muslim world will react against them by burning their headscarves, but right now they are hanging in there. </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not clear that Breivik moved things leftwards. His party, the Progress party, lost 12 seats in parliament. But the Conservative party gained 18 seats and Labour lost 9, so the Breivik&#8217;s Progress Party and the Conservative party now share power in a coalition, instead of being out of power with Labour ruling. The coalition is going to take measures to restrict immigration. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/01/norway-conservatives-coalition-immigration" rel="nofollow">http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/01/norway-conservatives-coalition-immigration</a></p>
<p>Probably only half measures, but not exactly the leftward lurch one might have expected as a consequence of his attack.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the situation is in Norway, but it is remarkable how the English language left doesn&#8217;t really talk about Breivik that much. One might have thought they&#8217;d be beating us over the head with him. </p>
<p>That said, your point is not necessarily wrong, you just picked a couple of bad examples. Political violence is often counter-productive and the Western right is especially ill-suited to use it, because it doesn&#8217;t believe that anything is worth fighting for.</p>
<p>Best to remain completely legal, denounce / discourage any kind of violence and spread Dark Enlightenment ideas as far as possible in the short window of opportunity that remains before the SPLC and the NSA officially merge and politically incorrect speech becomes entirely (and retroactively) illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The above underscores the point of the Krieg series.

War was always the key to the entire question.   That has always been the banner they marched under - War.   Not ideas. 

Ideas are ever but trumpets and drums.   

Everyone has an opinion.   Few kill to see it carried out.  

As there has been some discussion of truth and virtue...

Truth - well war is the moment of truth, you and those present will see it.  

Virtue - that originally meant Combat Ferocity or Valor.  Not moral values, and certainly not chastity.   Timur had Virtu in spades.

&lt;b&gt;The Progressives time has come &lt;/b&gt;not because their ideas have gotten rancid and because of a century of nightmares.  The Progressives time has come - NOW - because they have lost their balls.  They are now 75 years into selecting for cowardice and shirking.   

Mohammed made &lt;b&gt; Shirk&lt;/b&gt; a mortal sin for Muslims for a reason.  

When they lost their balls their brains atrophied as well.  Which of course is what happens in actual Castrati as well.  

The Foe is no Stalin.  The Foe is Quimby from Lolita.  

As any man with a strand of decency in him cannot bear a Quimby for long..there only remains the Trumpets and Drums.   

For the Intellectual Fraud is a teeting Jericho, and it is the Duty of better minds to blow their trumpets until down come the Walls.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above underscores the point of the Krieg series.</p>
<p>War was always the key to the entire question.   That has always been the banner they marched under &#8211; War.   Not ideas. </p>
<p>Ideas are ever but trumpets and drums.   </p>
<p>Everyone has an opinion.   Few kill to see it carried out.  </p>
<p>As there has been some discussion of truth and virtue&#8230;</p>
<p>Truth &#8211; well war is the moment of truth, you and those present will see it.  </p>
<p>Virtue &#8211; that originally meant Combat Ferocity or Valor.  Not moral values, and certainly not chastity.   Timur had Virtu in spades.</p>
<p><b>The Progressives time has come </b>not because their ideas have gotten rancid and because of a century of nightmares.  The Progressives time has come &#8211; NOW &#8211; because they have lost their balls.  They are now 75 years into selecting for cowardice and shirking.   </p>
<p>Mohammed made <b> Shirk</b> a mortal sin for Muslims for a reason.  </p>
<p>When they lost their balls their brains atrophied as well.  Which of course is what happens in actual Castrati as well.  </p>
<p>The Foe is no Stalin.  The Foe is Quimby from Lolita.  </p>
<p>As any man with a strand of decency in him cannot bear a Quimby for long..there only remains the Trumpets and Drums.   </p>
<p>For the Intellectual Fraud is a teeting Jericho, and it is the Duty of better minds to blow their trumpets until down come the Walls.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33349</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Sergeant spoke to his soldiers:  Do you know how our Intellectual Elites came into being?

They were cowards.

They used their Intellects as tools to avoid 20th century mass conscription, which meant for the 20th centuries key decades of combat they were granted a college deferment.  

The key conflicts they avoided or used their gifts to mitigate danger and labor were World War 2 through Vietnam.   No shouldering a Rifle for them.  Or a shovel.  By Vietnam their self loathing was so intense they spit on all bravery and nobility they saw.   Vile creatures of boundless malice who&#039;s self loathing had so peaked they set upon a dire course 50 years ago of degrading all that was decent, mocking all that was brave and noble, subsidizing all that was weak, playing to all that is low in man and calling it politics.    

And these creatures and their stunted children rule you now. 

And the Sergeants soldiers listened in silence, thinking but not betraying their thoughts as is wise for men of action.
===================================
I doubt if the soldiers have any evidence the last few years the Sergeant was wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Sergeant spoke to his soldiers:  Do you know how our Intellectual Elites came into being?</p>
<p>They were cowards.</p>
<p>They used their Intellects as tools to avoid 20th century mass conscription, which meant for the 20th centuries key decades of combat they were granted a college deferment.  </p>
<p>The key conflicts they avoided or used their gifts to mitigate danger and labor were World War 2 through Vietnam.   No shouldering a Rifle for them.  Or a shovel.  By Vietnam their self loathing was so intense they spit on all bravery and nobility they saw.   Vile creatures of boundless malice who&#8217;s self loathing had so peaked they set upon a dire course 50 years ago of degrading all that was decent, mocking all that was brave and noble, subsidizing all that was weak, playing to all that is low in man and calling it politics.    </p>
<p>And these creatures and their stunted children rule you now. </p>
<p>And the Sergeants soldiers listened in silence, thinking but not betraying their thoughts as is wise for men of action.<br />
===================================<br />
I doubt if the soldiers have any evidence the last few years the Sergeant was wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Kevin,

When someone means HARM then it&#039;s Duty to stop them.    This is what men do, their first Duty is to Protect. 

The costs to allowing this to continue are before us all every moment.   

This marvel of man we are typing on is used for instance as a pornography delivery system, along with every other sort of Harm.  If it had fallen into the hands of any other generation of mankind and all other ruling classes prior to include Stalins it would have been used to raise the mean IQ by several points.  Instead it is used to degrade.

For you see they do not wish to kill, they wish to degrade and break down.  With subsidies, joblessness, pron, drugs, being forced to cower before bitter, ugly and barren harpies, street thugs given the powers of the state, faculity members hurling status based accusations, and the rest.

&lt;i&gt; For you see they are cowards who&#039;s MO is a Pimp&#039;s. &lt;/i&gt;

I would say some may be content to endure tidal waves of degradation and malice, the very destruction of the family as policy, the ruin and degradation of all, but of course that is not the case.   They are not content but the specter of trouble - and it mostly is a specter - paralyzes them into being helpless.   

The vast majority of men are indeed helpless.  For they choose to be so. 

Pimps and most such predators run at the sight of men coming for them.  They just do.  Did I mention Abortion?  Oh Catholic?   Babies are killed because they&#039;re the most helpless victims, and this Cathedral ye so tremble before, this bloodstained, shitstained Moloch are sniveling little cowards.  

If the specter of the destruction of baby genocide pimping drug and pornography peddlers troubles you, then do pray for the success of those who aren&#039;t so troubled that they are paralyzed.  

Action has ever been a Tiny Province.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin,</p>
<p>When someone means HARM then it&#8217;s Duty to stop them.    This is what men do, their first Duty is to Protect. </p>
<p>The costs to allowing this to continue are before us all every moment.   </p>
<p>This marvel of man we are typing on is used for instance as a pornography delivery system, along with every other sort of Harm.  If it had fallen into the hands of any other generation of mankind and all other ruling classes prior to include Stalins it would have been used to raise the mean IQ by several points.  Instead it is used to degrade.</p>
<p>For you see they do not wish to kill, they wish to degrade and break down.  With subsidies, joblessness, pron, drugs, being forced to cower before bitter, ugly and barren harpies, street thugs given the powers of the state, faculity members hurling status based accusations, and the rest.</p>
<p><i> For you see they are cowards who&#8217;s MO is a Pimp&#8217;s. </i></p>
<p>I would say some may be content to endure tidal waves of degradation and malice, the very destruction of the family as policy, the ruin and degradation of all, but of course that is not the case.   They are not content but the specter of trouble &#8211; and it mostly is a specter &#8211; paralyzes them into being helpless.   </p>
<p>The vast majority of men are indeed helpless.  For they choose to be so. </p>
<p>Pimps and most such predators run at the sight of men coming for them.  They just do.  Did I mention Abortion?  Oh Catholic?   Babies are killed because they&#8217;re the most helpless victims, and this Cathedral ye so tremble before, this bloodstained, shitstained Moloch are sniveling little cowards.  </p>
<p>If the specter of the destruction of baby genocide pimping drug and pornography peddlers troubles you, then do pray for the success of those who aren&#8217;t so troubled that they are paralyzed.  </p>
<p>Action has ever been a Tiny Province.</p>
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		<title>By: Lesser Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/scrapping/#comment-33336</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lesser Bull]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=1965#comment-33336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Kevin C.,

besides my reply below, consider that you need to expand your understanding of what order is.  Formal institutions and creeds are only one form of order, with real but limited utility.  Confucius understood very well another form of order, which was constituted by voluntary grouping around a noble man with noble principles.  The order there is attractive, not formal, but in some ways more real and more robust.  Market order is also not formally organized, but still real and along certain vectors effectively unstoppable.
An informal but mutually supporting and sympathetic association of free, intelligent, able men was what some of the most effective groups in history were, like the Roman Fathers or the American Founders.  
Friendship is to the lever as Aristotle is to Archimedes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevin C.,</p>
<p>besides my reply below, consider that you need to expand your understanding of what order is.  Formal institutions and creeds are only one form of order, with real but limited utility.  Confucius understood very well another form of order, which was constituted by voluntary grouping around a noble man with noble principles.  The order there is attractive, not formal, but in some ways more real and more robust.  Market order is also not formally organized, but still real and along certain vectors effectively unstoppable.<br />
An informal but mutually supporting and sympathetic association of free, intelligent, able men was what some of the most effective groups in history were, like the Roman Fathers or the American Founders.<br />
Friendship is to the lever as Aristotle is to Archimedes.</p>
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