Sentences (#70)

James Kirkpatrick defending the Alt-Right at Unz:

All politics in the Information Age is a media war.

There’s almost certainly massive consensus on this point, although it’s not in the interests of installed power to emphasize the fact.

August 24, 2016admin 50 Comments »
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50 Responses to this entry

  • Brett Stevens Says:

    The last year has brought this out of the closet:

    2015: Leftism is the right way, and some do not agree so we must protect dissent.

    2016: Leftism is a self-interested party, and others may resist and this is legitimate.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 2:37 pm Reply | Quote
  • William Newman Says:

    “a media war […] although it’s not in the interests of installed power to emphasize the fact”

    There is also seems to be some disagreement about how a media war works, in part based on natural confusion in our era of new ways to route around the old media, whose effect has become increasingly tricky to gauge because of increasingly strong pressure for preference falsification. E.g., when an establishment media outlet loyally plays the Name That Party game in the crudest most obvious way with party ID of poliiticians in coverage of scandals, to what extent are they helping the cause in a sustainable way by showing the readers how it’s done, to what extent are they helping but only at the price of liquidating their remaining credibility, and to what extent are they hurting by undermining general establishment credibility in an embarrassingly clumsy way (so that e.g. someone to whom it is pointed out becomes primed to notice other crude propaganda in previously credible formal education or informal groupthink)?

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    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 2:57 pm Reply | Quote
  • Corvo Says:

    What are your thoughts on Vox Day’s post on what is the Alt-Right?

    https://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html

    [Reply]

    Henk Reply:

    Too much detail. SJWs always lie, right wing movements always splinter.

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    michael Reply:

    strategically id want to remain fluid when its convenient id point out the alt right suppoets nigger autonomy and non agression when its not convenient id say whatever i want because one thing the alt right gets is winning is all that counts

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    admin Reply:

    As a description of what the Alt-Right is, it’s okay.
    It’s not a platform that leads in the direction of Hong Kong, so not especially attractive from the XS perspective.

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    michael Reply:

    Never been but from the pictures id say its a pretty yellow place, with a smattering of high IQ wealthy white guests who are not allowed any influence other than making money? How is that any different from what the WNs want to start with.

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    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 4:35 pm Reply | Quote
  • Anon Says:

    I think your love-hate tsundere relationship with the alt-right is interesting. Being associated with that crowd is self evidently undesirable (I just can’t take people like Vox Day seriously), but rooting for the populist alt-right is more like hoping that giant wave over there will wreck the shit out of your enemy’s warship.

    [Reply]

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    >just can’t take people like Vox Day seriously

    What do you refer to? What are his bad ideas? I´m interested.

    Seriously as an influence on voters? Seriously as a commentator? As a scifi author? As a helping hand when times get rough? As an economic analyst?

    Whom does one take seriously?

    [Reply]

    Anon Reply:

    >Whom does one take seriously?

    Mediocre science fiction authors, adult men who engineer campaigns to defend videogames online, and True Believers (TM) who unironically double down on the Judaism Lite mind meme (Christianity) are pretty low on the list of whom to take seriously. There are a lot of things Vox is right about but even a broken clock is right twice a Day.

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    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    VD is very amusing. He reminds me of a cartoon character. But so does everyone, really. We´re past taking humans very seriously, aren´t we? There´s hardly a person I don´t find amusing, but some people that should be walled away one is forced to take seriously.

    As for video games, they by now influence hundreds of millions of people. They´re political now. Serious business. Like movies. Effective.

    All the things you mentioned are. Things that influence the lives of hundreds of millions in serious ways.

    Or what is serious to you? Street fights? Hitler? Mises? Mao? What?

    Yes, the horrible reality is that our society moves by subintellectual currents.

    Someone like e.g. Hegel comes along. Analyses that, and what, it´s just used for new mass movements?

    https://youtu.be/CEWTEiRl6H8

    Anon Reply:

    I don’t think people like Vox or Citadel or anyone in the unironic religiosphere of NRx should be “walled away”. I generally agree with Land that they should be free (and encouraged) to pursue the logical conclusion to their belief system, just not anywhere near me. Not that they wouldn’t be good people to live next to on paper, but their doubling down on a belief system that contributed to where we are today is puzzling to say the least. The Christian Right, especially of the ethno-nat variety, are a bizarre phenomenon.

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    I said that one is forced to take seriously some people who should be walled away, which I think many would take to refer to violent people.

    It certainly didn´t refer to Mr. Day, nor to the pseudonymous rebellion-stirrer Mr. Citadel.

    You would in some situations certainly be forced to take Christians seriously. I´m still not sure what your significant point is, if there is any other than a very personal opinion.
    One is forced to take what is dangerous seriously, so far as that means to avoid danger at least.

    There certainly are far more interesting theoreticians than VD & typical ethnonats or christians, and people use the phrase ‘take seriously’ to refer to things they find of high value.

    I´d be interested to see a NRx list of interesting people in the world, which I´m sure a lot of scientists and innovators would be on.

    I mean living people. Typically the dead ones are already known. But a list would be good anyway, for there might be a Lovecraft unknown to me.

    Eventually there´ll be something in the direction of an encyclopedia. Serious business calls for it. New Advent, Encyclopedia Judaica, Britannica, Wikipedia, you know, influencing thought, nothing merely neutrally informs. (Tho I find Wikipedia to be typically quite neutral (e.g. the article on Evola), the game is to do better, or to do your own. Indeed, I welcome it all. All the new genres, subgenres, remakes, what have you. Of course. What I don´t welcome is Big Moa State taxing what is mine to fund poorly run or subintellectually devised programs (logically that includes violent immigration or things enabling dangerous ghettos).

    frank Reply:

    Lol I don’t get all the counter signaling against GG. They were in many ways precursor to alt-right. Many 4GW tactics and lessons were learnt through that campaign. It showed that Cathedral bleeds when struck at the right spot.

    I personally don’t game, but it’s as valid and relevant as any other artistic medium.

    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 6:12 pm Reply | Quote
  • Grotesque Body Says:

    What comes after the information age?

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    wu-wei Reply:

    The meme age.

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    Lucian Reply:

    False. Memes are eternal, like Kek.

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    michael Reply:

    one would hope the back to the chalkboard age

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    John Hannon Reply:

    The Global Brain if we’re lucky –

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_brain

    Skynet if we’re not.

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    Henk Reply:

    Of the two, only Skynet is an “autonomous capital” scenario.

    Autonomous capital, understood as fully detached from its human substrate, is a techno-capital speciation event.

    My best guess at admin’s futurology is that he expects to be able to enter into a trade agreement with Skynet.

    However, speciation doesn’t imply that the old form of techno-capital will cease to exist. A fork in the road leads to two roads that coexist. Humanity, including admin, may well remain securely slaved to old-style techno-capital.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    Can you explain how capitalism can exist detached from human motivation, why any human would permit it let alone champion it if it could exist.

    Henk Reply:

    (Who, me? I’m just trying to tickle an answer out of admin…)

    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 8:30 pm Reply | Quote
  • (N) G. Eiríksson Says:

    So far as I´m concerned there is no ‘Alt’ Right.

    There is just Right. An index of less right and more right. Creative-productive people create things & jobs, not trouble.

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    yeah but the argument is about the best conditions for that and if the conditions are self sustaining or need adjusting etc etc

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    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    The best conditions are known. Indeed they are increasingly known, so to say.

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    Lucian Reply:

    Memes are things.

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    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Certainly. All things are things.

    Proletarii are those who produce nothing valuable, but, according to the coiners of the word, children for the state. This is not a static class but a dynamic classification.
    Things of value for the state are surprising, thus called ‘genius’ or ingenious, or in latter day terms ‘disruptive’. They produce affect, effect, quality, for the universal subject. That is desires met, dreams fulfilled, lives enjoyed. ‘Things’ of lower value are not as effective, in the production of the good.

    The good is contested by men. Thus what are good things is argued about. Some are more right than others.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 24th, 2016 at 8:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • illegal Says:

    Shapiro is a sharp mind, a quick witted person, and a Jewish person who speaks against the interests of non-Jewish white humans and then is consistently and constantly surprised when non-Jewish white people have zero desire to pay any respects toward him. Such behavior is completely unworthy of being taken seriously. I said it.

    I actually used to read and respect Zizek, probably in a state of ignorance of some type. The other night I was watching him respond to a heckler and then about a week later as I was drifting off to fall asleep, I experienced a deep state of nausea as I heard his response to the heckler in my mind. In that moment I finally recognized that Zizek has always been a stupid, narcissistic, dogmatic leftist piece of shit, and he has never really said much of anything that I can actually feel much respect for on a basic intellectual level. It was really quite nice to finally see him for the charlatan hack he really is in that moment, to see the image of a “philosopher” stripped away to reveal little more than a self-obsessed asshole who is capable of saying much without ever really revealing where he is coming from to the audience. I always had this idea of him as a sort of provocateur who was secretly calling leftist ideas into question for serious critique – in truth he has always been doing little more than doubling down and further deepening the well of madness than anything else. For me this is a major revelation because Zizek was always in my mind one of the people who calls himself a communist or a leftist, yet who seemed to have a very wide open mind and gave off the APPEARANCE of being unbiased, “philosophical,” “intellectual,” and so on. Now I am convinced that he is as stupid, self-obsessed and blind as your average pink haired feminist. It’s nice to knock the guy down a peg in my mind. This may not be relevant to what is said in the above article, I’ve just been enjoying slaying the sacred cows of my past lately and Zizek is one of them.

    [Reply]

    Lucian Reply:

    It’s a good feeling. I used to think Foucault was a ‘philosopher’.

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    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    Mr. Illegal, your gravatar says “Formating new thoughts and advancement of the “progress” beyond progress, as well as philosophical systems. We are interested in Euro-Optimism, white energetics, and other labels such as this describing a process of reaction and philosophical technology toward experimental reaches of thought and experience. Excitement and adventure are important to all projects!”

    But no site is referenced.

    Is there one?

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    NRK Reply:

    At the risk of making you relive a traumatic episode, would you mind digging out a link to that heckler response?
    That bit about him simultaneously obfuscating his position and revealing it to be doctrinally leftist sure got me intrigued.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 12:08 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    http://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/08/09/why-the-centre-cannot-hold/

    Haidt speech

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 12:48 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @Anon
    I think you both have to take the world as it is seriously.To imagine how it might be, as more serious than how it is is the leftist mistake.You seem to imagine the alt right as simply anti niggers by which i mean their corelative I think some of them at least are simply dealing pragmatically with reality as it is now first and will get around to how the world might be once initial conditions are better.

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    SVErshov Reply:

    American political tought had been dragged into debilitating niggers discourse for more then a century now. Finally they got a real chance to win … information war, just great.

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    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 1:27 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    its a war and its the type of war that would happen if the american people were to go to a hot war against USG, They have the blackhawks F16s etc except maybe a few we stole. But they cant just shut down the internet or nuke us so we hold on and hope they lose the hearts and minds.A couple months ago i think they lost the police, and probably the cuckservative party is done.

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    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 2:02 am Reply | Quote
  • grey enlightenment Says:

    I have always found the split in the right between the ‘alts’ vs. the ‘establishment’ to be kinda stupid and frivolous. They agree one everything except for immigration and Trump. It’s not like the mainstream right is open borders; rather they support ‘some’ immigration under controlled conditions. I’ve never heard anyone like Hannity or Limbaugh come out an endorse open borders. Sometimes are arguments are so heated because the stakes are so small.

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    michael Reply:

    I think theres been so much creep acceleration we have a perception of what used to be. I can remember reading article probably 15 years ago about how great immigration was because it was free market and hispanics were christians i bought it then i thought my brother who was watching lou dobbs who was beginning to oppose it were idiots kind of the way land thinks im an idiot now, It took a long time before some conservatives like hanson started pointing out what the situation was like on the ground. but by then the racism meme was weaponized beyond belief and that sort of whimpered out at NRO meantime even places like NYC and northern idaho were swamp with hispanics and it became clear how insane it was but only coulter and the vdare types talked about it until trump now hes folding. hannity and limbaugh have always been more forthright than the establishment until breitbart and drudge etc rush was the alt right.hell until about six months ago land was the alt right maybe that is the deal its hitler or bust

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    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 3:34 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @michael

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-24/deutsche-bank-ceo-warns-fatal-consequences-savers

    german bankers say save yourselves we are going down

    [Reply]

    SVErshov Reply:

    if Germans want to destroy their own country, there must be very good reason for doing it.

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    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 3:50 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    @Grotesque Body

    that wasn’t a rhetorical question having never myself gotten admin to explain himself i thought you might have some insight i did note you seem not quite sympathetic

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    Grotesque Body Reply:

    @Michael

    Explain what?

    [Reply]

    michael Reply:

    sorry that was meant for henk

    [Reply]

    Henk Reply:

    Missed your reply down here.

    Can you explain how capitalism can exist detached from human motivation,

    Let’s imagine Skynet as a post-singularity AI with command over various and versatile robots, and robot factories to build more robots. It is detached from humans in the sense that it does not rely on humans, unlike old-style techno-capital, which relies on humans like a virus relies on cells.

    Skynet, although autonomous, could still decide that there are things that humans make more efficiently than itself. It can trade with humans for goods and services, become a market participant.

    After Skynet, Skynet 2 may enter the market, then Skynet 3, and so on, to trade with us and trade with each other. Still a perfectly good market.

    Ten years into it, Skynet 29981 wipes out all humans in an accident involving a bio-engineered IQ enhancement product, but between itself and all the other Skynets, there’s still a market. There’s nothing about markets that needs humans, once you accept the premise of something like Skynet.

    why any human would permit it let alone champion it if it could exist.

    In return for whatever it wants from us, Skynet gives us wireheading devices that deliver four hours of non-stop orgasm on a single AA cell? I don’t know, but the market driven scenario is my best guess at what those who do champion Skynet might expect to get out of it.

    frank Reply:

    @Henk

    One doesn’t have to personally benefit from materialization of an end to desire that end.

    People desire the wellbeing of their offspring. Their genes propagate as a result, but they don’t personally benefit from it.

    Capitalist teleology is intelligence optimization. Capital’s escape from monkey trap is a crucial step.

    Henk Reply:

    The care for kids analogy is unhelpful when attempting to explain what is basically cross-species altruism (if taken at face value).

    (N) G. Eiríksson Reply:

    It´s funny how people think most questions are rhetorical questions here, or maybe they´re just so much of ignoramuses.

    They´ll get a spike up their ass eventually. Half-dweebs raised by their momas, don´t know how to converse like a man.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 25th, 2016 at 5:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Outliers (#20) Says:

    […] Rule of law is not part of the Western paradigm. The bottom line. How to think (realistically). Boycott Target. Ryan Lochte, innocent beer fan. (Un)common sense. Elite immunity (indemnified from accountability). The real Right. Information warfare. […]

    Posted on August 28th, 2016 at 5:03 am Reply | Quote
  • michael Says:

    Henk
    Yeah thats pretty much what i imagined sounds pretty silly larp. First what motivation does skynet have to build factories and make what? more robots to make more factories to make more robots? brilliant ,robots all the way up,to infinity and beyond for no discernible purpose.And why would we create such a stupid death trap, well Someone like Land would but not for any intelligent reason just to say he did.wise people know not everything that can be done ought to be done.AI and gene editing should only proceed at the pace safety is CERTAIN. anyway this idea that machine “inteligence” would last long after us can only come from minds who have never built a machine, machine need to be maintained because murphy

    [Reply]

    Irisviel Reply:

    Instrumental goals seem to converge across intelligence bands and goal systems.

    The question is intelligence orthogonality – whether terminal goal systems are stable through transitions between intelligence bands.

    A shallow reading of modern AI design (or mainstream Atlanticism) implies orthogonality is true. Phenomena like martyrdom suggest that complex systems can warp themselves into breaking boundaries of abstraction to replacing terminal goals.

    The answer will heavily influence which forms of intelligence optimization are deliberately pursued.

    [Reply]

    Posted on August 28th, 2016 at 12:34 pm Reply | Quote

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