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	<title>Comments on: The Islamic Vortex (Part 1)</title>
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	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Moving forward with 4GW and NRx &#124; The New International Outlook</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-92809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moving forward with 4GW and NRx &#124; The New International Outlook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-92809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] barbarity. The wars currently raging will continue as no possibility of order is possible, and the Islamic vortex is very much at the beginning stages. A couple of battalions of Marines or Paratroopers would be [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] barbarity. The wars currently raging will continue as no possibility of order is possible, and the Islamic vortex is very much at the beginning stages. A couple of battalions of Marines or Paratroopers would be [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Outside in - Involvements with reality &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Islamic Vortex (Map)</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-78997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Outside in - Involvements with reality &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Islamic Vortex (Map)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2014 17:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-78997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] was not completed, so it needs re-visiting, but I think it&#8217;s holding up quite well (parts 1, 2, 3, 3a, 3b, 4, [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] was not completed, so it needs re-visiting, but I think it&#8217;s holding up quite well (parts 1, 2, 3, 3a, 3b, 4, [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: The Islamic Vortex (or How Obama Accidentally Triggered a Moldbuggian Reboot in Egypt) &#124; The Reactivity Place</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Islamic Vortex (or How Obama Accidentally Triggered a Moldbuggian Reboot in Egypt) &#124; The Reactivity Place]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Nick Land&#8212;when he keeps his sentences to under 50 words and three independent clauses each&#8212;is one of the better reads in the Reactosphere&#174;. And he&#8217;s managed (mostly) to do just that in his recent three part series on The Islamic Vortex. A taste: [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Nick Land&mdash;when he keeps his sentences to under 50 words and three independent clauses each&mdash;is one of the better reads in the Reactosphere&reg;. And he&#8217;s managed (mostly) to do just that in his recent three part series on The Islamic Vortex. A taste: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Chevalier de Johnstone</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chevalier de Johnstone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Or I could have just linked to Jim Kalb&#039;s commentary on the universal &quot;public order&quot;.

http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/07/25/out-of-the-antiworld/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or I could have just linked to Jim Kalb&#8217;s commentary on the universal &#8220;public order&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/07/25/out-of-the-antiworld/" rel="nofollow">http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/07/25/out-of-the-antiworld/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;But politics /= power. Politics is the means of ordering and organizing the civic culture.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s called a political myth or formula. In fact, this is the liberal misunderstanding of politics. Cf. Carl Schmitt, especially his &lt;i&gt;The Concept of the Political.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt; If we determine a better method to ensure that the best man for the job gets it, this is politics, and is obviously a net gain.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It may be a net gain in terms of, say, how many ice cream cones each man gets. But not in terms of politics. Power still nets to zero.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But politics /= power. Politics is the means of ordering and organizing the civic culture.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s called a political myth or formula. In fact, this is the liberal misunderstanding of politics. Cf. Carl Schmitt, especially his <i>The Concept of the Political.</i></p>
<blockquote><p> If we determine a better method to ensure that the best man for the job gets it, this is politics, and is obviously a net gain.</p></blockquote>
<p>It may be a net gain in terms of, say, how many ice cream cones each man gets. But not in terms of politics. Power still nets to zero.</p>
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		<title>By: Chevalier de Johnstone</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chevalier de Johnstone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But politics /= power.  Politics is the means of ordering and organizing the civic culture.  Like any technology, it is not at all zero-sum.  Political power is zero-sum, but that&#039;s not the same thing as politics.  If we decide to make one man supreme dictator, this is an example of zero-sum political power.  If we determine a better method to ensure that the best man for the job gets it, this is politics, and is obviously a net gain.  Likewise if we devise a political system that purposely picks rubes, flakes, and ignorant buffons (ahem) this is a net loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But politics /= power.  Politics is the means of ordering and organizing the civic culture.  Like any technology, it is not at all zero-sum.  Political power is zero-sum, but that&#8217;s not the same thing as politics.  If we decide to make one man supreme dictator, this is an example of zero-sum political power.  If we determine a better method to ensure that the best man for the job gets it, this is politics, and is obviously a net gain.  Likewise if we devise a political system that purposely picks rubes, flakes, and ignorant buffons (ahem) this is a net loss.</p>
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		<title>By: Chevalier de Johnstone</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chevalier de Johnstone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is an excellent point. I&#039;d like to see more concrete evidence, but as a matter of logical conjecture, that local authorities have a lot more say over how foreign resources are used locally than the scattered, spread-out foreign resource-managers have a say in how locals use their resources, seems an obviously logical claim.

I think this claim differs, however, from claiming that locals don&#039;t often go along with what foreign managers want, for some other reason or set of reasons TBD.  If they don&#039;t have to act like proxies, but they do anyways, then we should ask what it is that makes them choose to act like foreign proxies, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent point. I&#8217;d like to see more concrete evidence, but as a matter of logical conjecture, that local authorities have a lot more say over how foreign resources are used locally than the scattered, spread-out foreign resource-managers have a say in how locals use their resources, seems an obviously logical claim.</p>
<p>I think this claim differs, however, from claiming that locals don&#8217;t often go along with what foreign managers want, for some other reason or set of reasons TBD.  If they don&#8217;t have to act like proxies, but they do anyways, then we should ask what it is that makes them choose to act like foreign proxies, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Chevalier de Johnstone</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chevalier de Johnstone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This was misplaced and ought to have been in response to the discussion with Lesser Bull, above.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was misplaced and ought to have been in response to the discussion with Lesser Bull, above.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Proxy conflicts are extremely complicated, because they depend on foreign military forces (regular or irregular) doing what you want. Usually, the alignment of interests this requires is limited, temporary, patchy, and unreliable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Proxy conflicts aren&#039;t extremely complicated. There doesn&#039;t have to be some sophisticated alignment of interests. There rarely is. It&#039;s more basic. There are always people willing to break things and go after the guys you don&#039;t like for money and power and for the chance of even more money and power. 

Asking about what the positive sum gains are is the wrong question. Power is zero-sum. Politics is a zero-sum game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Proxy conflicts are extremely complicated, because they depend on foreign military forces (regular or irregular) doing what you want. Usually, the alignment of interests this requires is limited, temporary, patchy, and unreliable.</p></blockquote>
<p>Proxy conflicts aren&#8217;t extremely complicated. There doesn&#8217;t have to be some sophisticated alignment of interests. There rarely is. It&#8217;s more basic. There are always people willing to break things and go after the guys you don&#8217;t like for money and power and for the chance of even more money and power. </p>
<p>Asking about what the positive sum gains are is the wrong question. Power is zero-sum. Politics is a zero-sum game.</p>
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		<title>By: Chevalier de Johnstone</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-islamic-vortex-part-1/#comment-9299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chevalier de Johnstone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=921#comment-9299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But of course there is a World order.  There simply is no world Order.  It is a managerial system without managers, which recruits its own faceless technicians to fill square holes with square pegs.  Nobody has to tell them where the square pegs go, they just put them there.

That there is a World order is quite obvious.  To give two examples:

1)  Say you are in rural Sichuan and you offer a stranger a refreshing glass of chicha, a drink sometimes made by chewing on corn meal and catalyzing with saliva.  What is the likely reaction of your Sichuanren acquaintance to your kind offer of a beverage?  

OK, now suppose you offer them a nice cool bottle of Coca-Cola.  Note that a) While there is a chance the chicha has human spit in it, neither you nor your acquaintance has any clue whatsoever what actually goes into Coke (it&#039;s a secret) and b) a culture quite close to China&#039;s, Japan, has a long history of making alcoholic beverages out of chewed grains (rice).

2)  How many places, with how many people, from how many different backgrounds, can you go in the world and, producing a paper from say the CDC or an Ivy research lab, that says that a drug has been proven safe and effective in double-blind trials, convince the people to take a shot of said drug to cure the appropriate ailment?  

OK, now how many places, etc. can you go and say that you had a spiritual vision that a random biological compound is safe and effective, and convince people to try injecting it?

Of course some people think Coke is nasty and don&#039;t mind a little clean spit in their alcohol, and some people don&#039;t trust drug companies but will shoot up monkey turds in solution, or refuse to partake of any kind of material medicine at all, preferring to trust in the power of prayer.  But are they normal?  No.  Thus we see that the order of the world is quite evident.  That there is no cackling mastermind sitting in a tower giving the orders doesn&#039;t mean that there is no order to be seen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But of course there is a World order.  There simply is no world Order.  It is a managerial system without managers, which recruits its own faceless technicians to fill square holes with square pegs.  Nobody has to tell them where the square pegs go, they just put them there.</p>
<p>That there is a World order is quite obvious.  To give two examples:</p>
<p>1)  Say you are in rural Sichuan and you offer a stranger a refreshing glass of chicha, a drink sometimes made by chewing on corn meal and catalyzing with saliva.  What is the likely reaction of your Sichuanren acquaintance to your kind offer of a beverage?  </p>
<p>OK, now suppose you offer them a nice cool bottle of Coca-Cola.  Note that a) While there is a chance the chicha has human spit in it, neither you nor your acquaintance has any clue whatsoever what actually goes into Coke (it&#8217;s a secret) and b) a culture quite close to China&#8217;s, Japan, has a long history of making alcoholic beverages out of chewed grains (rice).</p>
<p>2)  How many places, with how many people, from how many different backgrounds, can you go in the world and, producing a paper from say the CDC or an Ivy research lab, that says that a drug has been proven safe and effective in double-blind trials, convince the people to take a shot of said drug to cure the appropriate ailment?  </p>
<p>OK, now how many places, etc. can you go and say that you had a spiritual vision that a random biological compound is safe and effective, and convince people to try injecting it?</p>
<p>Of course some people think Coke is nasty and don&#8217;t mind a little clean spit in their alcohol, and some people don&#8217;t trust drug companies but will shoot up monkey turds in solution, or refuse to partake of any kind of material medicine at all, preferring to trust in the power of prayer.  But are they normal?  No.  Thus we see that the order of the world is quite evident.  That there is no cackling mastermind sitting in a tower giving the orders doesn&#8217;t mean that there is no order to be seen.</p>
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