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	<title>Comments on: The Liberal Agony</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: Nyan Sandwich</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-136366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nyan Sandwich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-136366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@+5

If you are also &quot;implying implications&quot;, send me an email at phalanx.nrx@gmx.com. I want to chat about some stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@+5</p>
<p>If you are also &#8220;implying implications&#8221;, send me an email at <a href="mailto:phalanx.nrx@gmx.com">phalanx.nrx@gmx.com</a>. I want to chat about some stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Brainwashing has no need for critical thinking &#124; Philosophies of a Disenchanted Scholar</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-99350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brainwashing has no need for critical thinking &#124; Philosophies of a Disenchanted Scholar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2014 05:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-99350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] h/t http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/ [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] h/t <a href="http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/" rel="nofollow">http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/</a> [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Ghostlike</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-97097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ghostlike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 11:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-97097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;…So, are you a multi-billionaire venture capitalist? How do you know? It must be hard to make such precise predictions with only half of a brain, advised by only your gay cousin and some sci-fi novels. What’s your background in artificial intelligence?&quot;

My wording was too harsh and I apologize.

What I have said needs further elaboration. Our esteemed host here like the analogy of capitalism as a sentient entity. This can be extended to say that whole society is sentient or at least semi-sentient. If so the NRx and DE are definitely society&#039;s pain senses.

The cyclical nature of nations and history is not exactly that is a secret to anyone here and it seems obvious to me that really nobody in the great empires of the past really wanted them to decay and collapse in a pile of its own their own puke. I find it hard to believe that this was because there weren&#039;t historical versions of today&#039;s NRx in those times pointing out the flaws of society. The pain was not enough to prevent the Roman Empire for dying.

The cause for the collapse are purely disgenic trends. The solution on the surface seems simple, make smart people breed more and make dumb people breed less, in other words, reverse the IQ shredder effect of modernity.

Dark Enlightenment is more than capable of of analyzing and dissecting the problem, but it is hopeless at arresting it in its current incarnation. That is because politics will not be effective at stemming the tide.

NRx has a huge problem which is exemplified by people like Max and that problem is not that he is using swear words or being rude in his discourse. The problem is that his response to the issues plaguing us is entirely, perfectly natural. It is primal and animalistic.

It is also patently wrong, so smarter people on this blog take it upon themselves to rise above it and lead the discourse in an intelligent manner. There is a trap in this because that reaction, or more appropriately put, &lt;b&gt;adaptation&lt;/b&gt; is also exactly wrong.

The true, correct response is for the people reading NRx blogs is to suddenly be struck with the impulse to go out and have children and raise them well. This is the correct behavioral adaptation and I cannot even begin to imagine it happening in reality. I am willing to venture a guess that people reading and commenting on right wing blogs such as these have exactly the same fertility rate as the rest of the population.

So what we can observe in the right wing sphere is simply picking at the wound (as +5 Royal Stuart Wizard of Endarkenment alludes to) hoping it will heal if enough care is given to it, if the pain impulse is made strong enough to provoke the right response and in the left wing sphere we can observe people acting as if they have &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_asymbolia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pain asymbolia.&lt;/a&gt;

I am not any different from you in that regard. Reading news on sites like these grips me with unease and the desire to do &lt;b&gt;something&lt;/b&gt;, but it not filling me with the desire to go out and get married and have kids. Who would want to bring them into this sick, twisted society?

Did anybody ever reading Moldbug&#039;s essays have the correct behavioral response of increasing their own fertility? Rhetorical.

That is the problem that neoreaction has and why it is destined to perish along with the society that spawned it.

The technological solution to this however can be imagined. Its name is &lt;a href=&quot;http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/desire-modification-ultimate-technology.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Desire Modification.&lt;/a&gt;

I&#039;ve done a sick amount of thinking on the subject and I&#039;ve even written a story (the Torment arc) dedicated to it. I&#039;ve fucked up very, very badly even though the story did not turn out that bad on the surface. My conclusion is a saddening one, that even in my imagination I do not have the ability to see through the eyes of those with the ability to change their own desires.

Desire Modification is true free will.

The full extent of that ability is likely only to be enjoyed by mind uploaded humans or AIs, but there might be more rudimentary forms of it in the future employable by ordinary humans. Say what you will about transcranial stimulation, but it is a rudimentary form of Desire Modification and they will be better kinds once the big brain projects finish. Desire Modification is the true answer to Stuart Wizard&#039;s bemoaning of the movement&#039;s lack of strategy and actionable tactics.

Let&#039;s go back to my gay cousin. Of course being gay is (objectively) wrong. Of course that changing the innate preference is the right choice for the individual to make.

What I am saying is that you, me and all the people here are like my gay cousin, completely incapable of making the choice because that ability is not written into our genes.

There needs to be a change in the flow of events.

I follow tech sites for my daily dose of optimism. Every once in a while the news comes out about DARPA and the military experimenting with brain implants. Then the peanut gallery pipes up with allusions about military making emotionless killing machines out of humans and developing mind control. This is completely, utterly wrong.

In the reality we live in, mind control really is free will because even if such technologies can be used to make slaves out of people, just think of what you could do if you could enslave yourself to yourself.

All of those who consider themselves darkly enlightened should accept this red pill. It is the next step.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;…So, are you a multi-billionaire venture capitalist? How do you know? It must be hard to make such precise predictions with only half of a brain, advised by only your gay cousin and some sci-fi novels. What’s your background in artificial intelligence?&#8221;</p>
<p>My wording was too harsh and I apologize.</p>
<p>What I have said needs further elaboration. Our esteemed host here like the analogy of capitalism as a sentient entity. This can be extended to say that whole society is sentient or at least semi-sentient. If so the NRx and DE are definitely society&#8217;s pain senses.</p>
<p>The cyclical nature of nations and history is not exactly that is a secret to anyone here and it seems obvious to me that really nobody in the great empires of the past really wanted them to decay and collapse in a pile of its own their own puke. I find it hard to believe that this was because there weren&#8217;t historical versions of today&#8217;s NRx in those times pointing out the flaws of society. The pain was not enough to prevent the Roman Empire for dying.</p>
<p>The cause for the collapse are purely disgenic trends. The solution on the surface seems simple, make smart people breed more and make dumb people breed less, in other words, reverse the IQ shredder effect of modernity.</p>
<p>Dark Enlightenment is more than capable of of analyzing and dissecting the problem, but it is hopeless at arresting it in its current incarnation. That is because politics will not be effective at stemming the tide.</p>
<p>NRx has a huge problem which is exemplified by people like Max and that problem is not that he is using swear words or being rude in his discourse. The problem is that his response to the issues plaguing us is entirely, perfectly natural. It is primal and animalistic.</p>
<p>It is also patently wrong, so smarter people on this blog take it upon themselves to rise above it and lead the discourse in an intelligent manner. There is a trap in this because that reaction, or more appropriately put, <b>adaptation</b> is also exactly wrong.</p>
<p>The true, correct response is for the people reading NRx blogs is to suddenly be struck with the impulse to go out and have children and raise them well. This is the correct behavioral adaptation and I cannot even begin to imagine it happening in reality. I am willing to venture a guess that people reading and commenting on right wing blogs such as these have exactly the same fertility rate as the rest of the population.</p>
<p>So what we can observe in the right wing sphere is simply picking at the wound (as +5 Royal Stuart Wizard of Endarkenment alludes to) hoping it will heal if enough care is given to it, if the pain impulse is made strong enough to provoke the right response and in the left wing sphere we can observe people acting as if they have <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_asymbolia" rel="nofollow">pain asymbolia.</a></p>
<p>I am not any different from you in that regard. Reading news on sites like these grips me with unease and the desire to do <b>something</b>, but it not filling me with the desire to go out and get married and have kids. Who would want to bring them into this sick, twisted society?</p>
<p>Did anybody ever reading Moldbug&#8217;s essays have the correct behavioral response of increasing their own fertility? Rhetorical.</p>
<p>That is the problem that neoreaction has and why it is destined to perish along with the society that spawned it.</p>
<p>The technological solution to this however can be imagined. Its name is <a href="http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/desire-modification-ultimate-technology.html" rel="nofollow">Desire Modification.</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done a sick amount of thinking on the subject and I&#8217;ve even written a story (the Torment arc) dedicated to it. I&#8217;ve fucked up very, very badly even though the story did not turn out that bad on the surface. My conclusion is a saddening one, that even in my imagination I do not have the ability to see through the eyes of those with the ability to change their own desires.</p>
<p>Desire Modification is true free will.</p>
<p>The full extent of that ability is likely only to be enjoyed by mind uploaded humans or AIs, but there might be more rudimentary forms of it in the future employable by ordinary humans. Say what you will about transcranial stimulation, but it is a rudimentary form of Desire Modification and they will be better kinds once the big brain projects finish. Desire Modification is the true answer to Stuart Wizard&#8217;s bemoaning of the movement&#8217;s lack of strategy and actionable tactics.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s go back to my gay cousin. Of course being gay is (objectively) wrong. Of course that changing the innate preference is the right choice for the individual to make.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that you, me and all the people here are like my gay cousin, completely incapable of making the choice because that ability is not written into our genes.</p>
<p>There needs to be a change in the flow of events.</p>
<p>I follow tech sites for my daily dose of optimism. Every once in a while the news comes out about DARPA and the military experimenting with brain implants. Then the peanut gallery pipes up with allusions about military making emotionless killing machines out of humans and developing mind control. This is completely, utterly wrong.</p>
<p>In the reality we live in, mind control really is free will because even if such technologies can be used to make slaves out of people, just think of what you could do if you could enslave yourself to yourself.</p>
<p>All of those who consider themselves darkly enlightened should accept this red pill. It is the next step.</p>
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		<title>By: Alrenous</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alrenous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 01:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks. Hyper-Switzerlands would fit right into Neon Hillism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. Hyper-Switzerlands would fit right into Neon Hillism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Funeral Mongoloid</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Funeral Mongoloid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I will note again that an aging woman with multicolored short hair, strange piercings, mixed-race grandchildren and a “vociferous” dedication to atheism would have been considered an oddity, horror, obscenity or degenerate in nearly every other age and place save the West of 2014.&quot;

In which case, thank you for the encore of this penetrating observation, which must have been so immensely beneficial to those who were on the receiving end of it the first time round. 

Admin! The screens!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I will note again that an aging woman with multicolored short hair, strange piercings, mixed-race grandchildren and a “vociferous” dedication to atheism would have been considered an oddity, horror, obscenity or degenerate in nearly every other age and place save the West of 2014.&#8221;</p>
<p>In which case, thank you for the encore of this penetrating observation, which must have been so immensely beneficial to those who were on the receiving end of it the first time round. </p>
<p>Admin! The screens!</p>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;by refusing to call a savage a savage&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;a black individual who has committed some clearly barbaric act a “nigger”; that’s what the word came into use for. &lt;/i&gt;

Ay caramba... Sheesh kebab... the Cathedral don&#039;t like you (Whitey) using nigger precisely because you might make the connection that you (Whitey) are one... Savage knew his shit there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>by refusing to call a savage a savage</i></p>
<p><i>a black individual who has committed some clearly barbaric act a “nigger”; that’s what the word came into use for. </i></p>
<p>Ay caramba&#8230; Sheesh kebab&#8230; the Cathedral don&#8217;t like you (Whitey) using nigger precisely because you might make the connection that you (Whitey) are one&#8230; Savage knew his shit there.</p>
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		<title>By: VXXC</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96863</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VXXC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 21:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While we&#039;re rehabilitating language I would like some simpler words back.

&quot;Progress&quot; for instance.

Seriously it&#039;s difficult to have an intelligent conversation at times without stopping.  &quot;Retarded&quot; for instance doesn&#039;t refer exclusively to unfortunate people.  It could also refer to a process that&#039;s retarding [warping] results.  The wrong heat treatment of galvanized steel could be said to retarding the process.  

It might be said that Progress as a political phenomenon has retarded the language. 

I can&#039;t find a non-PC naughty word definition of retarded online.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we&#8217;re rehabilitating language I would like some simpler words back.</p>
<p>&#8220;Progress&#8221; for instance.</p>
<p>Seriously it&#8217;s difficult to have an intelligent conversation at times without stopping.  &#8220;Retarded&#8221; for instance doesn&#8217;t refer exclusively to unfortunate people.  It could also refer to a process that&#8217;s retarding [warping] results.  The wrong heat treatment of galvanized steel could be said to retarding the process.  </p>
<p>It might be said that Progress as a political phenomenon has retarded the language. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find a non-PC naughty word definition of retarded online.</p>
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		<title>By: nydwracu</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nydwracu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know what Neon Hillism is, but that&#039;s a brilliant name. (Imagining the mountains all becoming hyper-Switzerlands...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what Neon Hillism is, but that&#8217;s a brilliant name. (Imagining the mountains all becoming hyper-Switzerlands&#8230;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nydwracu</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nydwracu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 20:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the advantages progressivism has is that it can position itself as the only intelligent option. It&#039;s had fifty years with no serious intellectual opposition known to anyone outside a philosophy department -- and fifty years to bury what opposition used to exist. 

Locke had to come before Jefferson, and the function Locke performed is the easiest one to perform. All it takes is a Locke.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the advantages progressivism has is that it can position itself as the only intelligent option. It&#8217;s had fifty years with no serious intellectual opposition known to anyone outside a philosophy department &#8212; and fifty years to bury what opposition used to exist. </p>
<p>Locke had to come before Jefferson, and the function Locke performed is the easiest one to perform. All it takes is a Locke.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce Laliberte</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/the-liberal-agony/#comment-96821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryce Laliberte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=3349#comment-96821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Max&quot; does make a fair point: it is in our interest to not give the least amount of pretense that we give a rat&#039;s ass for appearing &quot;high class&quot; by refusing to call a savage a savage. That said, the problem with dark magic is rehabilitating corrupted memes is a costly endeavor. To my mind, there are actually instances for which &quot;nigger&quot; and &quot;faggot&quot; have perfect uses, the problem only being 1) those who tend to use these words don&#039;t use them systematically and 2) those on the outside will, by associating us with those actually low class individuals, cause us to be flooded with those individuals who think they&#039;ve found smart friends. I would feel no compunction in referring to a black individual who has committed some clearly barbaric act a &quot;nigger&quot;; that&#039;s what the word came into use for. The problem is when the term is misinterpreted to apply to all black individuals  regardless of individual traits, which is why the radioactive decay associated with the term makes it not worth handling and lends itself to cancer.

The activity of rehabilitating language requires more than simply starting to use the words correctly; it requires postulating the theory of its use and augmenting it in reflection for the virtues and vices of its use. So, contra Max, there may be more disadvantage than utility to using those words, at least not without a substantial amount of development on how and when a barbarian may be rightly called a barbarian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Max&#8221; does make a fair point: it is in our interest to not give the least amount of pretense that we give a rat&#8217;s ass for appearing &#8220;high class&#8221; by refusing to call a savage a savage. That said, the problem with dark magic is rehabilitating corrupted memes is a costly endeavor. To my mind, there are actually instances for which &#8220;nigger&#8221; and &#8220;faggot&#8221; have perfect uses, the problem only being 1) those who tend to use these words don&#8217;t use them systematically and 2) those on the outside will, by associating us with those actually low class individuals, cause us to be flooded with those individuals who think they&#8217;ve found smart friends. I would feel no compunction in referring to a black individual who has committed some clearly barbaric act a &#8220;nigger&#8221;; that&#8217;s what the word came into use for. The problem is when the term is misinterpreted to apply to all black individuals  regardless of individual traits, which is why the radioactive decay associated with the term makes it not worth handling and lends itself to cancer.</p>
<p>The activity of rehabilitating language requires more than simply starting to use the words correctly; it requires postulating the theory of its use and augmenting it in reflection for the virtues and vices of its use. So, contra Max, there may be more disadvantage than utility to using those words, at least not without a substantial amount of development on how and when a barbarian may be rightly called a barbarian.</p>
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