War of the Week

[*sigh*]

(I think I saw a tweet by Jayman that also came out swinging, but I’ve failed to hunt it down.)

ADDED: The Jayman commentary (excavated by Mr. Archenemy).

ADDED: Some relevant comments in this thread.

June 10, 2014admin 52 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Neoreaction

TAGGED WITH : , , ,

52 Responses to this entry

  • Orthodox Says:

    Weak sauce. The only thing attractive about HBD right now as a political interest is that it completely invalidates the Leftist assumption that minorities are suffering due to racism. HBD is the antidote to hate. Anyone who wants to hate will not like HBD. For the already racist, HBD provides nothing new.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:12 pm Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Says:

    Power struggle.

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    Hurlock Reply:

    More like self-congratulatory circlejerk.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • FoolishReporter Says:

    SuperM is, according to JayMan, a non-white gay dude, so I guess the animus towards right wing is not unexpected. Still irritating though

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    admin Reply:

    Mike A. (and others) will be pleased that he’s identifying NRx so strongly with social conservatism.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:32 pm Reply | Quote
  • spandrell Says:

    Gotta say asdf was great in that thread.

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    sobl Reply:

    Concur. Jayman is so proud to admit he is an exception to black iq distribution yet doesn’t extrapolate from that for other traits. Must be living in 97% white Maine that helps keep the blinders on.

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    Nick B. Steves Reply:

    Agreed.

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    Handle Reply:

    Yes. That was asdf at his very best.

    That being said, usually, when misdreavus is talking about ‘conservative BS’, he means other beliefs that contradict some strong empirical results of biological behavioral determinism.

    So, for example, he has claimed that student achievement and various measures of life outcome track more closely with IQ and genetics than family structure, so that, one might argue, conservative claims about the importance of two-parent families and the devastation of divorce or single-motherhood is mostly just confusing correlation for cause.

    [Reply]

    Izak Reply:

    I have no issues if misdreavus limited his criticisms to some of the claims from the “man-o-sphere” about single parenthood, fat-shaming, promiscuous women, and proper diet and nutrition. Those all constitute arguments which seem to get made because they’re fun to make, not because they’re particularly true. However, when you argue against white power guys (and apparently Duchesne is one, which is news to me!) being interested in HBD, you’re basically complaining about your favorite rap artist being too popular amongst white suburbanites or your favorite coffee shop being too popular amongst lower-middle class pretenders. It’s meaningless posturing.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • FoolishReporter Says:

    @FoolishReporter Well, if that split isn’t already fully recognized it soon will be. I tend to be in the middle on it though, because all you have to do is look at libertarianism’s recent transformation (and mainstream conservatism) to see the same dynamic at play. Although, as you pointed out in a recent tweet exchange, NRxn and Rxn likely need to be on the outer edge of the curve with the adoption of emerging, disruptive tech. Now I’m rambling a bit, but yeah.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hormel Chavez Says:

    We’re supposed to care who proved it, given that it was proved? Yet at the same time we’re supposed to believe it only because it validates our priors?

    Progs sure are funny. And by funny I mean dumb.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 4:54 pm Reply | Quote
  • Dan Says:

    “Just *who* do you think proved for you “neo-reactionaries” that heredity explains most adult var. in IQ within developed countries?”

    Not liberals. The only reason reality has do be mined anew every other year is that the entire liberal project is focused on hiding reality. Every year we know less than the year before, and every year we ‘know’ more things that are empirically false.

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    I think he means gay black dudes like himself. Or þ is my impression. “A GAY BLACK MAN HELPED WITH THIS, SO RIGHT WING IS DISPROVEN” or something to þ effect.

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    nydwracu Reply:

    ꝥ, or at least þt

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    nyan_sandwich Reply:

    What are you guys up to with þ character?

    U̴̸͚̖̠͚͛̿ͮ̆̃͑̔͑́n̼̙̜̮͕͂̓̑̑ͧ͂̓̋͗i̷̡̝̙̖̬̋̕c͍͚̺̥͍̠̼̎ͨ͆̄͊͜o̴̬̟̔ͨͯ̎ͪ̿̋d̙͈̥͂́̔͆̾e̋ͧ͜͏͈̗͎͎̟̼͘ ̸̶͙͎̠̯̆̉̓́͡ì̸̀̈͂͑҉̶̬̲̬̙̻š̸̷͎͉ͦ͑̿̒͆ ̗̱̱̳̳̫͓̲ͯ̂̉̈́ͬ̐͢e̷͈͓̗̲ͯ͂͆ͥ̊̈͌͊̕͡v̸̖͇͎̇̒̍̃ͯ͛̆̆̆͡i̢͓̻͖̝̙͕ͩ͋ͧͩ̑́̚͞l̐͋̀̐҉͎̹̫̭̝ ̜͙ͩͪ̽͛͟ͅm̸̨͔̱͍͍͎̮͙͖̥̊́a̶̱̖̣͇̙̼̫̣͎̒̄̽̓̀g̘̗ͭ͊̀į̮̮͚̗̥͔̱̆ͩ̈ͅç͔͉ͭ̇̓͟

    E.Antony Gray (RiverC) Reply:

    do you even triforce

    misdreavus Reply:

    Last I checked, Nancy Segal, Robert Plomin, Sandra Scarr, and quite a few other luminaries of behavior genetics were quite liberal in their political outlook. And lest you think the political zeitgeist was much different before the evil intrusion of so-called “cultural Marxism” throughout the natural and social sciences, J.B.S. Haldane was a Marxist, as were John Maynard Smith and quite a few other luminaries of quantitative genetics / evolutionary biology.

    So far you’re down to… umm.. err.. zero “neo-reactionaries” who have made any meaningful contribution to the scientific study of human behavior, or who even bother to acquaint themselves with field of knowledge as it exists today. When you aren’t content to languish in near-complete obscurity, you are laughed at by the great majority of people whose cooperation you require to demolish the “Cathedral” (or whatever it is you preoccupy yourselves with nowadays). I wonder why this is the case.

    Like I said. Who is it that proved for you that most adult variation in IQ within developed countries may be attributed to heredity? Was it Mencius Moldbug? I mean could *you* even argue scientifically that such a thing the case?

    And if I sound smug, that’s ’cause you’re full of shit. Not because I hate your political opinions.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    No one here is making any claim to “have made any meaningful contribution to the scientific study of human behavior” or to computer science, microeconomics, or any other field of specialized expert knowledge. We defer to the relevant intellectual authorities in each case. If the only thing you want to do is throw crockery around, I’d prefer you did it in your own dining room.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 5:25 pm Reply | Quote
  • E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Says:

    Also seems þ some like Jayman are hard determinists who think they have found the master key. “Change the genes and single mothers will go away!” þ genes are a fixed substrate on which all other things which can happen, happen, is my assumption. They are not a sole determinant of outcomes no more than having a high IQ is a sole determinant of financial success. It may be the case þ a high IQ is a prerequisite for Bill Gates level success, I’d buy þ.

    I am reminded of Socrates’ line: “These sorts are always confusing conditions and causes.”

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 5:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • nyan_sandwich Says:

    hue hue hue

    I came here via HBD, not the other way around.

    Anyways, why do we care what these idiots think? Back to theorizing.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 5:50 pm Reply | Quote
  • FoolishReporter Says:

    @ I’m also reminded of Radish’s quoting of Carlyle on stats, ie they can be made to say and do anything by those so gifted.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 5:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • Hurlock Says:

    Snobbery is taken on a whole other level by these guys.

    This is signalling at its most pathetic.

    “We are doing real science here, do not mistake us for those dark enlightenment proles”.

    Considering their area of research, these guys should know better than to act like apes.

    I think EducationRealist put it really well at JayMan’s blog.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    His comment was my favorite as well.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 6:00 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    Um, I knew all about it years before I heard about Moldbug? E.g. the race/brain-size link and the associated IQ/brain-size link. The stuff’s pretty much an open secret.

    That said, part of grokking ad hominem is to recognize and lionize the truth regardless of who says it. Neither Jayman nor misdreavus have a monopoly on mixing idiotic beliefs with sophisticated and true ones.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 6:44 pm Reply | Quote
  • Izak Says:

    I’m kind of amazed that JayMan’s post was prompted by some misdreavus comments in response to Ricardo Duchesne, who is apparently some sort of “crackpot.” From what I can tell, Duchesne inspired misdreavus to write about the horrors of Asatru, Neo-Nazis, and White Nationalism and its co-opting of HBD (or some such thing) after making some comments on a comment thread. This is quite astounding – as if Duchesne metonymically should fill in for all of White Nationalism, Naziism and *Asatru* of all things. His book The Uniqueness of Western Civilization is both brilliant and well-received, which is kind of miraculous considering the climate we’re in. He also out-argues misdreavus, FWIW, but I don’t see that as much of a victory considering that he likely had to waste his whole afternoon.

    Link: http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/silver-blaze/#comment-22235

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Instead of getting into an endlessly recursive pattern of smears-by-association, I’ll just stick to the question: What has any of this got to do with the Dark Enlightenment?

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    Scharlach Reply:

    As pure political philosophy, DE would be operative with or without HBD. That said, I’ve always thought that—not centrally, perhaps—DE attempts to build a political philosophy by taking Darwin seriously.

    I think misdreavus overstates how “leftist” the geneticists and biologists are . . . vaguely liberal, sure, but there’s at least one E.O. Wilson for every Gould. On the campuses I’ve worked at, the hard sciences are by far the least politically active.

    That said, it doesn’t matter what their political philosophies are, what matters is the knowledge they offer about humanity and life on earth. How anyone can study the history of life on earth and be a universalist egalitarian is beyond me, but whatever, I’m sure it’s easy enough to compartmentalize one’s objective knowledge from one’s political preferences. So what? We choose not to do so, and I think we’re all less hypocritical because of it.

    Hypocritical? Yes. When I think of people like Gould or [insert leftist scientist here], I’m reminded of a Chesterton quote, which basically asks, “How can you claim that man is an animal, then go to a political rally and act self-righteous in face of the fact that men sometimes act like animals?”

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    spandrell Reply:

    Check your email dude

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:07 pm Reply | Quote
  • Daniel Schmuhl Says:

    Jayman and a few other HBD bloggers strike me as being clever sillies. HBD fits much better with far-right political ideologies than liberal ones. I think many liberals understand this at some level, and that’s why it is blacked out. Denouncing those on the far-right is unlikely to make liberals accept HBD. A few HBD liberals that I have met seem to believe that dysgenics and third world immigration are no big deal, because genetic engineering is right around the corner. Not only is it far away, it would probably be banned if it came to fruition. Furthermore, it would be difficult to get people on the far-left of the bell curve to comply with any sort of genetic engineering program. Most of these people won’t even use contraceptives. I don’t really understand how one could accept HBD and be a proper progressive.

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    Izak Reply:

    You could be a progressive, realize that eugenics is a more valid scientific undertaking than cultural anthropology, and then try to implement a massive eugenics campaign to make everyone equal in intellect, emotional temperament, and physical capability. I’m personally quite afraid of a pro-HBD civilization hell-bent on systematically suppressing and rooting out all forms of both greatness and eccentricity.

    Remember the old McDonalds “McWorld” advertising campaign slogan: “It could happen!”

    [Reply]

    E. Antony Gray (@RiverC) Reply:

    which is why it is of utmost importance that Progressives continue to reject HBD.

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    an inanimate aluminum tube Reply:

    “try to implement a massive eugenics campaign to make everyone equal in intellect, emotional temperament, and physical capability.”

    Isn’t that the point of the progressive ideal of a perfectly blended humanity?

    It seems unlikely that it is just a coincidence that those who believe in equality are “accidentally” pushing for genetic communism.

    HBD isn’t something new or secret. The proles have quite a solid understanding of folk HBD. It’s not hard to notice this stuff. Only very sheltered people could miss it. Some progressives are naive and sheltered, but not all of them, not by a long shot.

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    Izak Reply:

    Oh, I think it’s totally accidental. Everyone has a very hazy understanding of HBD no doubt, and I see it all the time. That’s why progressives can enjoy movies like Idiocracy without knowing that it’s based on purely eugenic ideas. People use eugenic arguments to argue that incest is a valid taboo. But if you don’t have a self-conscious and systematic set of principles which allow you to understand human nature, you can’t have a self-conscious and systematic means to implement its gradual shift. If progressives really were to home in on this issue, it would be pretty obvious.

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:11 pm Reply | Quote
  • War of the Week | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:21 pm Reply | Quote
  • blogfamiglia Says:

    Just get on with the killing of your libtard enemies.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:38 pm Reply | Quote
  • Daniel Schmuhl Says:

    First, you would have to acknowledge that human beings are unequal, which goes against progressive doctrine. Then you would have to infringe on the enlightenment value of freedom. Anyway, eugenics is firmly reactionary at this point, even though it was progressive in the early 20th century.

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    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:55 pm Reply | Quote
  • Imperfect Humanoid Says:

    I went to school with a very large percentage of Australian Aboriginals, and was very much aware of ‘HBD’ before 3rd grade (though I used less PC terminology). This didn’t stop me growing up progressive lite, but I never doubted race to be biological and hugely substantial. After moving to a more progressive metropolis I was rather shocked and awed at the confusion of liberals when it came to racial matters, but still that was nothing compared to discovering how far the matter had descended in America and Europe.
    So thanks for ‘proving’ everything Misdreavus and co, but shit that’s really the very first thing to be done (and should’ve been done long ago and in fact was), now we are in need of re-introducing the sanity into politics, and for that we require the Right.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 10th, 2014 at 7:59 pm Reply | Quote
  • Chris B Says:

    I think this is a case of realizing the implications of delving into genetic differences, and maybe suffering an existential crisis? Would be nice if he was more careful jumping between “many” and all. Unless he means many on the “right” and all “neoreactionaries”?

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    Posted on June 11th, 2014 at 2:38 pm Reply | Quote
  • Orthodox Says:

    If we can be smug, I want to do it based on time preferences.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 11th, 2014 at 4:49 pm Reply | Quote
  • SERIOUS SCIENTIST WITH A SERIOUS POKEMON NAME Says:

    If you google misdreavus’ name it comes up with a previous handle on twitter named HellfireAwaits, which he has renamed to a Japanese kid’s cartoon (a pokemon called misdreavus). I started googling around HellfireAwaits plus various keywords, like the fact misdreavus uses the word “pitiful” regularly (I’m guessing vocabulary doesn’t correlate with IQ in misdreavus’ case), and interests, e.g. IQ, genetics, Asians, Jews.

    It turns out HellfireAwaits is pretty close to the things he vehemently hates.

    Now I’m not 100% sure the HellfireAwaits (HA) I’ve found on this other forum is the exact same as misdreavus, but it is pretty similar commentary, posting style, and topics. Plus it matches his former handle on twitter.

    Proof that misdreavus is HA. Links are archived, so misdreavus doesn’t delete them:

    1) Here he is talking about the Portugese again, similar to the Jayman link (post #90): https://web.archive.org/web/20140613033334/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Why-Can-t-Chinaman-Belt-Out-Tunes?pid=127442#pid127442

    2) Here he is complaining about the similar trolls from the aforementioned forums like 4chan, similar again to the Jayman link (post #18): https://web.archive.org/web/20140613033619/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Trolls-Are-Bad-For-Science?pid=69341

    Examples of misdreavus being the things that he hates:

    i) Here he is complaining in classic red-pill style (while complaining about red-pillers above) about Women, while talking about Jews: https://web.archive.org/web/20130829123640/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-A-message-to-all-white-feminists?pid=40328

    ii) Here he is being complained about by a moderator of said forum for racial trolling and being blatantly hostile (post #27): https://web.archive.org/web/20140613034110/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Attn-Hellfire-Awaits?pid=140084

    iii) Here is a large thread where he promotes eugenics (post #21 and onward): https://web.archive.org/web/20140613034327/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-BOOK-The-Next-Million-Years-and-various-prominent-eugenicists?pid=923 Said thread also has some posts where he complains about feminism and cultural marxism again (post #31).

    iv) misdreavus/HA is Korean. For laughs, here he is worrying about the size of the Asian male penis in pornos (post #57): https://web.archive.org/web/20140613034833/http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Squatdog-Trolls-Vutu?pid=101203

    It looks like many of his posts (under the name attack_tactic) at another site called mixedmartialarts.com were deleted, the posts left over are misdreavus bragging about how high his IQ is compared to other posters, which is similar to his post in this thread.

    So what we have is an arrogant, shut-in, Korean nerd complaining about members of the far right, internet trolls, and various others while partaking in similar behavior. It is highly likely that he is a troll, and if he isn’t, he is massively delusional and lacking in self-awareness.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    FWIW I’ve got a lot out of Misdreavus’ commentary and tweeting — and this type of stuff makes me like him more. I mean, “arrogant, shut-in, Korean nerd” — how cool can you get?

    I don’t think he has any idea at all about what the Dark Enlightenment stands for, though.

    [Reply]

    SERIOUS SCIENTIST WITH A SERIOUS POKEMON NAME Reply:

    I agree with much of what he says, my point was that his attack against a large number of group beliefs seems to include ideas that he himself believes in. I mean yeah, he disagrees with the hard HBD determinists on the right, but the blatant trolling, anti-marxism, and men’s rights stuff is generally found within the groups he is critiquing.

    [Reply]

    misdreavus Reply:

    I’m afraid that’s not me. Not even the same continent, even.

    Although I was raised on pokemon, I guess.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Thanks for the clarification.

    [Reply]

    misdreavus Reply:

    “Hellfire Awaits” comes from a protest sign emblazoned with angry letters I once saw at a pride parade – the guy holding it had a sunburned face with a cherry tomato hue and looked like he was three floats away from convulsing on the bare ground in a vomiting fit. I couldn’t stop laughing, and the name has stuck with me since.

    I tried registering it as a gmail address – unfortunately, somebody’s already taken it, which is quite odd. Maybe that’s him.

    And no, I don’t believe in eugenics. People can’t be herded like cattle.

    [Reply]

    misdreavus Reply:

    I took the courtesy of actually reading some the links in the comment above.

    Uhhh, Jesus Christ. *slowly backs away from screen*

    Let’s just say that’s not exactly my sort of thing. Does he even read HBD blogs? That’s scary.

    [Reply]

    misdreavus Reply:

    On that note, I once found a redditor who used to post eloquently about HBD and related issues, and I found the high concordance between his opinions and mine positively eerie. Tried contacting him via PM, only to no avail. (It looks like he’s stopped posting entirely, or has switched to a different handle. Too bad.)

    This just proves that there are a lot more of us out there than we think – and the internet allows us to find each other and communicate our heretical views to a wider audience. *I* knew plenty about psychometrics and behavior genetics years before I ever knew such a thing as “HBD” ever existed. I don’t have any political agenda, and I try not to distort the facts to corroborate my own biases.

    For Pete’s sake, I actively read literature that calls for the mass institutionalization and overt oppression of people like me. What does that tell you? If you want to make a logical case for the dissolution of liberal democracy, or the re-establishment of a feudal state, that’s fine with me. Just try not to sound like a deranged idiot while you’re at it. (This comment is directed toward nobody in particular, but toward the entire “Dark Enlightenment” community at large. And yes, I too have cognitive biases that ought to be challenged.)

    On that note… Every single time I find somebody out there who has heard of Cochran’s gay germ theory and understands why it’s the best one supported by all the evidence, I smile deep down inside. So far I haven’t found anyone IRL, but I’ve find quite a few while browsing the internet.

    [Reply]

    SERIOUS SCIENTIST WITH A SERIOUS POKEMON NAME Reply:

    Ok, sorry. I was wrong to make the link between you and that internet poster.

    If Nick wants to, he can delete the above post, and this comment tree.

    [Reply]

    admin Reply:

    Since no one is going to be left with a misidentification, I don’t think it’s doing any damage. You could even consider it an inoculation, given that the initial research impetus was provided by a genuine (if misleading) clue. (I’d put an editorial warning at the head of the initial post in this series, but WordPress won’t let me do that without screwing up all of the internal links.)

    misdreavus Reply:

    I’m going to start paying a lot closer attention to who’s following me on Twitter.

    This is weird.

    [Reply]

    Posted on June 13th, 2014 at 3:52 am Reply | Quote
  • G. Eiríksson Says:

    da joo

    [Reply]

    Posted on October 17th, 2016 at 2:30 pm Reply | Quote

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