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	<title>Comments on: What is Intelligence?</title>
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	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Nick B. Steves
There&#039;s a lot of truth in that, but not complete truth.

Intelligence can be defined as the most general purpose (or abstract) adaptation. High short-term (but still multi-generational) fertility, in contrast, can reflect a merely local adaptation: the ability to game unsustainable welfare systems for instance -- the case with the Hasids in Israel, among many others. In addition, r-selection strategies can easily appear differentially advantageous in the short-term, especially when environmental challenges are artificially relieved. (It&#039;s not even clear to what extent biological replication is globally adaptive -- in a world increasingly populated by robots, it certainly shouldn&#039;t be unreflectively allowed to define &#039;adaptive&#039;.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Nick B. Steves<br />
There&#8217;s a lot of truth in that, but not complete truth.</p>
<p>Intelligence can be defined as the most general purpose (or abstract) adaptation. High short-term (but still multi-generational) fertility, in contrast, can reflect a merely local adaptation: the ability to game unsustainable welfare systems for instance &#8212; the case with the Hasids in Israel, among many others. In addition, r-selection strategies can easily appear differentially advantageous in the short-term, especially when environmental challenges are artificially relieved. (It&#8217;s not even clear to what extent biological replication is globally adaptive &#8212; in a world increasingly populated by robots, it certainly shouldn&#8217;t be unreflectively allowed to define &#8216;adaptive&#8217;.)</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 22:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Did you provide this presentation ...?&quot;
That&#039;s a long term (one year plus) commitment designed to bind myself, Odysseus-style, to advancing in that direction, whilst warning people to expect some increasingly tough trekking. The strongest indication that the expedition is well underway will be a completed, 5-6 part &lt;em&gt;Twisted Times&lt;/em&gt; series (posted at a a new, functional, &lt;em&gt;UF&lt;/em&gt; site and linked to from here).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Did you provide this presentation &#8230;?&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s a long term (one year plus) commitment designed to bind myself, Odysseus-style, to advancing in that direction, whilst warning people to expect some increasingly tough trekking. The strongest indication that the expedition is well underway will be a completed, 5-6 part <em>Twisted Times</em> series (posted at a a new, functional, <em>UF</em> site and linked to from here).</p>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This post reminded me of an earller one: &#039;Reaction, repetition and time&#039;, specifically:

&lt;I&gt;If the New Reaction is not to bore itself into a coma, it has to learn to run innovation and tradition together as Siamese twins, and for that it needs to think time, into distant conclusions, in its ‘own’ way. That can be done, seriously. Of course, a demonstration is called for …&lt;/I&gt;

Did you provide this presentation (did I fail to see it? Is it bitcoin? Are you Satoshi? (I&#039;ve been wanting to ask that for ages, it&#039;s like reverse Spartacus)).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post reminded me of an earller one: &#8216;Reaction, repetition and time&#8217;, specifically:</p>
<p><i>If the New Reaction is not to bore itself into a coma, it has to learn to run innovation and tradition together as Siamese twins, and for that it needs to think time, into distant conclusions, in its ‘own’ way. That can be done, seriously. Of course, a demonstration is called for …</i></p>
<p>Did you provide this presentation (did I fail to see it? Is it bitcoin? Are you Satoshi? (I&#8217;ve been wanting to ask that for ages, it&#8217;s like reverse Spartacus)).</p>
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		<title>By: fotrkd</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1121</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fotrkd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;@Nick B. Steves&lt;/strong&gt;
I think it&#039;s those who breed intelligence best that &#039;win&#039; (and there&#039;s possibly some form of hybrid speciation/synthetic mutation along the way).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Nick B. Steves</strong><br />
I think it&#8217;s those who breed intelligence best that &#8216;win&#8217; (and there&#8217;s possibly some form of hybrid speciation/synthetic mutation along the way).</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;However, if by ‘success’ we mean ‘continuing to be at the cutting edge of human evolution and culture and intelligence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well that &lt;strong&gt;IS THE&lt;/strong&gt; question:  How do we define &quot;success&quot;?  So far, in the modern experiment, cultures that have pushed the farthest hardest seem to be experiencing some unintended maladaptive consequences.  Now it&#039;s a matter of prudence and taste to determine how such pitfalls relate to various technological breakthroughs and how they might be avoided.  But who&#039;s to say that &lt;em&gt;avoiding&lt;/em&gt; the &quot;cutting edge&quot;, say staying 10 meters away from it, may not be the most adaptive default disposition?  By raw Darwinian metrics, those who breed best, win.  By such a metric, the Amish, the Hasidim, Fundamentalist Mormons and Catholics win hands down.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, if by ‘success’ we mean ‘continuing to be at the cutting edge of human evolution and culture and intelligence.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well that <strong>IS THE</strong> question:  How do we define &#8220;success&#8221;?  So far, in the modern experiment, cultures that have pushed the farthest hardest seem to be experiencing some unintended maladaptive consequences.  Now it&#8217;s a matter of prudence and taste to determine how such pitfalls relate to various technological breakthroughs and how they might be avoided.  But who&#8217;s to say that <em>avoiding</em> the &#8220;cutting edge&#8221;, say staying 10 meters away from it, may not be the most adaptive default disposition?  By raw Darwinian metrics, those who breed best, win.  By such a metric, the Amish, the Hasidim, Fundamentalist Mormons and Catholics win hands down.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1059</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;... these topics often seem to have a vague chiliastic odor to them – an odor not altogether unlike the leftist eschatologies.&quot; -- Apocalypticism is inherent to Abrahamic religion, and things very like it apply far more widely -- even universally? There&#039;s nothing distinctively leftist about it, unless you think the left is the sole inheritor of the Abrahamic tradition. That&#039;s not to say it isn&#039;t a -- perhaps &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; -- problem, but it&#039;s far more difficult to avoid than it may seem. (I just now stumbled upon &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2011/10/25/spengler-reviews-my-book/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, which is relevant and interesting.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; these topics often seem to have a vague chiliastic odor to them – an odor not altogether unlike the leftist eschatologies.&#8221; &#8212; Apocalypticism is inherent to Abrahamic religion, and things very like it apply far more widely &#8212; even universally? There&#8217;s nothing distinctively leftist about it, unless you think the left is the sole inheritor of the Abrahamic tradition. That&#8217;s not to say it isn&#8217;t a &#8212; perhaps <em>the</em> &#8212; problem, but it&#8217;s far more difficult to avoid than it may seem. (I just now stumbled upon <a href="http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2011/10/25/spengler-reviews-my-book/" rel="nofollow">this</a>, which is relevant and interesting.)</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ SDL
Agreed on all points (both comments), with some awe. The reflexive skew you put into the equilibrium topic is truly ingenious -- to be returned to after reflection.

The &#039;neo-&#039; in neo-reaction is a backdoor, letting in all kinds of things that most reactionaries would rather keep out. 

Amish, Mennonites etc. are OK, but there&#039;s not much honor in being an ethnographic zoo-specimen, politically dependent upon a social order that one can do nothing either to advance or contest, let alone understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ SDL<br />
Agreed on all points (both comments), with some awe. The reflexive skew you put into the equilibrium topic is truly ingenious &#8212; to be returned to after reflection.</p>
<p>The &#8216;neo-&#8216; in neo-reaction is a backdoor, letting in all kinds of things that most reactionaries would rather keep out. </p>
<p>Amish, Mennonites etc. are OK, but there&#8217;s not much honor in being an ethnographic zoo-specimen, politically dependent upon a social order that one can do nothing either to advance or contest, let alone understand.</p>
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		<title>By: SDL</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1036</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SDL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, I agree completely that such groups should be left alone (insofar as being &#039;left alone&#039; doesn&#039;t also entail special rights, e.g., Hasidim in Israel are apparently huge welfare moochers, unlike, historically, the Amish or, more historically, utopian communities such as Oneida, New York). I&#039;m amazed by the cognitive dissonance of putatively &#039;anti-colonial&#039; Leftists who have no problem, say, raiding fundamentalist Mormon sects in Utah. Even though many Reactionaries might share their distaste for such sects, we can at least find great value in the fact that &lt;i&gt; they are doing things differently on their own&lt;/i&gt; and have essentially exited the building. (Hence the attempts to bring them back in . . . via prison, if necessary.)

Now, the question is: Are they doomed? I hope not. I wish them well. However, the Amish or the Mormon Fundamentalists aren&#039;t exactly going to launch us into the next phase of human evolution or culture. They will succeed if by &#039;success&#039; we mean &#039;continuing to be Amish&#039; or whatever. Don&#039;t get me wrong: I personally find &lt;i&gt; value &lt;/i&gt; in those traditionalist communities. Hell, I spend my vacations living out of a backpack in the mountains. However, if by &#039;success&#039; we mean &#039;continuing to be at the cutting edge of human evolution and culture and intelligence,&#039; then, no, those communities are not successful. (I hastily reiterate: they aren&#039;t &lt;i&gt; attempting &lt;/i&gt; to be successful in that way, so I&#039;m not judging them for not having produced Nobel prize winners.) 

Different kinds of success, then. The problem with Left Democracy, of course, is that success is pre-defined for one-and-all in terms of the stupidest, most entropic, and least intelligence-optimizing values.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I agree completely that such groups should be left alone (insofar as being &#8216;left alone&#8217; doesn&#8217;t also entail special rights, e.g., Hasidim in Israel are apparently huge welfare moochers, unlike, historically, the Amish or, more historically, utopian communities such as Oneida, New York). I&#8217;m amazed by the cognitive dissonance of putatively &#8216;anti-colonial&#8217; Leftists who have no problem, say, raiding fundamentalist Mormon sects in Utah. Even though many Reactionaries might share their distaste for such sects, we can at least find great value in the fact that <i> they are doing things differently on their own</i> and have essentially exited the building. (Hence the attempts to bring them back in . . . via prison, if necessary.)</p>
<p>Now, the question is: Are they doomed? I hope not. I wish them well. However, the Amish or the Mormon Fundamentalists aren&#8217;t exactly going to launch us into the next phase of human evolution or culture. They will succeed if by &#8216;success&#8217; we mean &#8216;continuing to be Amish&#8217; or whatever. Don&#8217;t get me wrong: I personally find <i> value </i> in those traditionalist communities. Hell, I spend my vacations living out of a backpack in the mountains. However, if by &#8216;success&#8217; we mean &#8216;continuing to be at the cutting edge of human evolution and culture and intelligence,&#8217; then, no, those communities are not successful. (I hastily reiterate: they aren&#8217;t <i> attempting </i> to be successful in that way, so I&#8217;m not judging them for not having produced Nobel prize winners.) </p>
<p>Different kinds of success, then. The problem with Left Democracy, of course, is that success is pre-defined for one-and-all in terms of the stupidest, most entropic, and least intelligence-optimizing values.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick B. Steves</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick B. Steves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But are the Amish and Hasidim, just to pull some visibly traditionalist reactionaries out of the hat, doomed?  Somewhat would at least have to want them dead.  If they can continue to be merely left alone, they will succeed fantastically.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But are the Amish and Hasidim, just to pull some visibly traditionalist reactionaries out of the hat, doomed?  Somewhat would at least have to want them dead.  If they can continue to be merely left alone, they will succeed fantastically.</p>
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		<title>By: SDL</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/what-is-intelligence/#comment-1018</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SDL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=200#comment-1018</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;/i&gt;Cultures are products and producers of intelligence, and the most objective mode of appreciation seizes upon that as their core function — because intelligence is the ultimate weapon (in the end, it wins). The culture that put a man on the moon was obviously still compatible with technical and scientific achievement. Islamic culture since al Ghazali, not so much. &lt;/i&gt; 

The waters you waded into with this post (not too cryptic, I think) are not necessarily inviting to a certain kind of neo-traditionalist. There are reactionaries who simply want to &lt;i&gt; return &lt;/i&gt; to some simpler time. For them, reaction is literally about &#039;going back&#039;, about &#039;restoration&#039;, rather than about finding a new stage for the future growth of human intelligence and achievement. I&#039;m thinking of the Fred Reed, Edward Abbey types of reactionaries; I don&#039;t think they care about building extropic systems or optimizing for intelligence because they&#039;re perfectly happy with equilibrium--bring back the 1950s! Or better yet, the 1890s! And let&#039;s just stay there this time around. A simpler time. Emphasis on simple. 

This desire for equilibrium &lt;i&gt; does &lt;/i&gt; require extropic effort--but the goal of the desire is to come to rest again.

Of course, equilibrium is impossible, which is why the traditionalist Right is always doomed to fail. I say that with a tinge of remorse, though, because clearly the 1890s and 1950s in America were more optimized for intelligence (or, at least, less entropic) than America circa 2013.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cultures are products and producers of intelligence, and the most objective mode of appreciation seizes upon that as their core function — because intelligence is the ultimate weapon (in the end, it wins). The culture that put a man on the moon was obviously still compatible with technical and scientific achievement. Islamic culture since al Ghazali, not so much.  </p>
<p>The waters you waded into with this post (not too cryptic, I think) are not necessarily inviting to a certain kind of neo-traditionalist. There are reactionaries who simply want to <i> return </i> to some simpler time. For them, reaction is literally about &#8216;going back&#8217;, about &#8216;restoration&#8217;, rather than about finding a new stage for the future growth of human intelligence and achievement. I&#8217;m thinking of the Fred Reed, Edward Abbey types of reactionaries; I don&#8217;t think they care about building extropic systems or optimizing for intelligence because they&#8217;re perfectly happy with equilibrium&#8211;bring back the 1950s! Or better yet, the 1890s! And let&#8217;s just stay there this time around. A simpler time. Emphasis on simple. </p>
<p>This desire for equilibrium <i> does </i> require extropic effort&#8211;but the goal of the desire is to come to rest again.</p>
<p>Of course, equilibrium is impossible, which is why the traditionalist Right is always doomed to fail. I say that with a tinge of remorse, though, because clearly the 1890s and 1950s in America were more optimized for intelligence (or, at least, less entropic) than America circa 2013.</p>
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