White Out

According to the White Nationalist fraternity, the Dark Enlightenment tends to like civilized people even when they aren’t really white. I think that’s right (and Right), although — of course — it’s supposed to be a problem.

It’s certainly amusing that the only people who don’t think we’re Nazis are the Nazis. They recognize that “cognitive elitists” are inherently prone to race treachery — which could be pushed all the way out to species treachery (if I have anything to do with it). Optimize for intelligence isn’t any kind of key to racial solidarity, or solidarity of any other kind. Even HBD, they generally insist, isn’t them (it’s too attentive to PISA ratings and such). There are some seriously interesting controversies implicit in all this, although rage is likely to break them up before they get very far. It makes me realize that one thing I appreciate about the Neoreaction is its anger management, which is inextricable from its taste for irony (and probably also from its decadence).

At Amos & Gromar there’s some worthwhile comment, and commentators.

Boundaries should always be appreciated, whoever is drawing them.

December 13, 2013admin 28 Comments »
FILED UNDER :Discriminations

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28 Responses to this entry

  • Max Says:

    Second link goes to the same place as the first. Pretty sure it was meant to link here: http://amosandgromar.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/the-new-right-versus-neoreaction-no-evola-quotes-arent-good-enough/

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    admin Reply:

    Thanks — fixed.

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    Posted on December 13th, 2013 at 4:30 pm Reply | Quote
  • survivingbabel Says:

    This situation was made for detente. You can’t argue philosophically with a visceral reaction of disgust. I’m willing to accept that many (most?) WNs are going to distrust anything I say because my father’s father was a nominal Tribesman, but I’m okay with that. I’m not George Costanza, I don’t need everyone to like or trust me.

    That said, I believe both groups can assist each other in disparate goals, and I’d rather not be actively hostile or outright dismissive. I’m baffled by Spandrell’s line of reasoning that Whites Don’t Real; that’s not how nations work. Playing a game of When Does a Loose Amalgamation of Distantly Related Persons Become a Nation is an exercise in re-fighting the late 19th century’s battles. Garibaldi is dead, and I am no Necromancer. If a group self-identifies as a nation, that’s good enough for me.

    I am willing to actively support the creation of a WN ethnostate that will deny citizenship, or residence, or presence, to Jews (even mudbloods like myself), NAMs, AMs, and whoever else they choose. In return, I expect that, when the shooting starts, it’s targeted as opposed to indiscriminate.

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    ultraZEN Reply:

    But Spandrell is right. This is why the term “white nationalism” is meaningless for any European: white aint a nation, white aint folk. White has never been a nation, and white never will. To identify as “white” is the utter demonstration that there is no nation at all. No ethnos, only demos. All that remains is a skin-deep synth-tribal cult that will only attract those mired in resentment. To make a nation of such a collection, you would need to invent some sort of, you know, Judaism or something.

    Which is exactly what American White Nationalism is about. Anti-semitic Judaism for whites. Purging oneself of the external Jew to create an inner mystical one, whose destinty is bound up in manifesting the utopian dream of white solidarity that never ever was reality anywhere.

    Europe? Europe was never about white solidarity. White tribes fighting white tribes fighting white tribes. Franks allying with Turks to kill Germans allying with Huns to kill Slavs. Eternal conflict – High Culture – Imperium: these paradoxes are the Indo-European tripartite riddle. Accompanied by bursts of barbarism, creativity and dynamism (apocalysm).

    Oh, rootless American whites. The only possible nation for you is a Faustian one, the frontier, the unknown. How is it that anti-semitic joke goes again? There are no Jews in Star Trek.

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    survivingbabel Reply:

    White has never been a nation, and white never will.

    “European” is a meaningful taxonomic grouping, genetically speaking, if distant shared relationship is part of your criteria for nationhood. If Americans of European descent aka Whites (or a subgroup thereof, aka SNs) feel a bond of kinship, or shared identity, and of mutual cooperation for survival, what exactly are you looking for? Do you consider France a nation? Or do you consider Alsace and Brittany nations? Both?

    “Never will” is nonsense. These things happen with astonishing alacrity given co-location and obvious shared characteristics. My great-grandmother considered herself Calabrese. Her daughter thought of herself as Italian, and her daughter considered herself White (although some people would take issue with a southern Italian calling herself White.) We’re talking an amorphous mixture of self identity, group identity, and familial bonds that resists rigid denotation.

    “Europeans” were once pagan bands and tribes, yes, but the Church brought a oneness that could be considered a metanational feeling. HBD Chick has done a great job showing the outbreeding patterns of most of Europe over the last millenia. Now the EU exists to knock down political boundaries and permit cross-migration. In 100-200 years, Europeans may find themselves making the same Faustian bargain, but the very idea of “nationhood” (as opposed to a tribe or, at most, a clan) is Faustian at its base.

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    admin Reply:

    Yes, there should be a WN Israel (Handlean ‘Multi-Zionism’ and all). Just the principle of diversity demands that. My selfish gratitude to WN, though, is that it soaks the non-too-bright but seriously enraged and determined to shout crowd, making it possible to have a civilized comments thread.

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    spandrell Reply:

    I am willing to actively support the creation of a WN ethnostate that will deny citizenship, or residence, or presence, to Jews (even mudbloods like myself), NAMs, AMs, and whoever else they choose.

    I am too, don’t get me wrong. I do wish the best for WN, I was one until recently. But I’ve quite despaired of ever seeing it happening. Peter Turchin is right, the only trigger for ethnogenesis is war, and NAMs aren’t a serious enemy enough.

    If WN had any chance, the white refuges in South Africa would have had some success. But look at them. Boers are being killed, raped and robbed every day, yet most still follow the progs

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    Matt Parrott Reply:

    spandrell,

    If WN had any chance, the white refuges in South Africa would have had some success. But look at them. Boers are being killed, raped and robbed every day, yet most still follow the progs

    South Africa is only disheartening if one holds the belief that ethnogenesis pretty much requires conflict. Fortunately, you’re wrong. Numerous historical examples demonstrate that ethnogenesis can occur despite relative prosperity and harmony. In a way, you should be heartened, as we no longer have to sit around and wait for Ragnarok.

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    Posted on December 13th, 2013 at 8:34 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alex Says:

    which could be pushed all the way out to species treachery (if I have anything to do with it).

    At least the WNs are unlikely to accuse you of treachery to the human race.

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    Posted on December 13th, 2013 at 9:15 pm Reply | Quote
  • Steve Johnson Says:

    If you accept HBD then the WN critique is sound.

    James Donald frequently points out a proper NR state will have to have different crime control policies for those of immediate African descent.

    Jews clearly have genetic tendencies that aren’t confined to higher IQ and, just as you have to account for different levels of aggression and civilized behavior from black people, you have to account for different levels of reflexive opposition to any kind of moral order and ethnocentrism / hostility to non-tribe members from Jews.

    HBD ain’t just PISA scores.

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    admin Reply:

    I found the CC self-differentiation from HBD (and ‘cognitive elitism’) highly persuasive. Still, I also agree with you that one strand within HBD tends towards WN — not through discrimination, but through the normalization and vindication of racial tribalism (Frank Salter represents this tendency best). It’s a topic that deserves further focused attention.

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    Thales Reply:

    That WN is so reviled by (esp. secular) Jews is all the endorsement it needs to be taken seriously at some level.

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    Red Reply:

    White nationalists like the Nazi’s before them are a largely lower middle/working class group that’s not too bright but they’re often the group that makes the back bone of a nation (food production/soldiers). Lower middle class/working class people’s always suffer the most from middle man minorities exploiters such as Jews which largely explains their constant and frothing at the lips hatred for such groups. You’ll never get a good conversation out of them because there is not a lot going on upstairs. If you ever plan a political movement, such people will make excellent and very loyal foot soldiers. Politically they’re currently up for grabs as both parties equally hates the lower middle class/working class at the moment.

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    Matt Parrott Reply:

    Red,

    The fact that WN intellectuals have tens of thousands of men and women in trailer parks who endorse a necessarily more concrete framing of our dogma is a strength. What’s the point of being in the right tail if you can’t wag the dog?

    Posted on December 13th, 2013 at 9:45 pm Reply | Quote
  • Teh-Teh-Teh Says:

    WNs who fantasize about an all-white ethnostate and think it wouldn’t just devolve into at best east germany with more pragmatic economies or worse sweden with swastikas need christ, lol.

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    etype Reply:

    An ethno-state east Germany with a pragmatic economy, or a Sweden with Swastikas sounds almost utopian compared to our present state of unlimited suck.

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    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    “WNs who fantasize about an all-white ethnostate and think it wouldn’t just devolve into at best east germany with more pragmatic economies or worse sweden with swastikas need christ, lol.”

    Well, it wouldn’t be just any Sweden / East Germany, it would be a Sweden / East Germany with a basic understanding of dysgenics and a strong aversion to immigration from the third world (which, in practice, tends to be dysgenic.)

    Maybe they’d be crippled by their socialist economic system, as you seem to imply, but humanity’s real wealth isn’t economic, it is genetic. They’d preserve some excellent science genes that are currently under threat. The bread lines might be a bonus; they’d make it easier for a techno-commercialist state to tempt valuable people into defecting.

    Brazil Norte is a more likely alternative, as current trends continue. You’ll also be able to poach defectors from there as well, but over time there will be fewer and fewer people worth poaching, as fast-motion dysgenics through hybridization kicks in.

    PISA scores are regarded as a decent proxy for G.

    http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/25-countries-most-brainpower-211349685.html

    “Germany
    On average, 2.60% scored at elite levels
    2,129,140 brilliant people estimated

    The United States
    On average, 1.7% scored at elite levels
    5,336,300 brilliant people estimated

    #20 Brazil
    On average, 0.10% scored at elite levels
    198,700 brilliant people estimated”

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    VXXC Reply:

    @ tubes

    “humanity’s real wealth isn’t economic, it is genetic.”

    Well that’s better than saying education is the key to everything [for the educators] but misleading.

    This is why DEC is useful primarily as a weapon.

    That’s a lament….

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    Saddam Hussein's Whirling Aluminium Tubes Reply:

    @VXXC

    Well, misleading how?

    Systems matter, they can, to a huge degree stifle the output of a people. See Lysenkoism or Blank Slatism. But in the long term, systems are temporary and they can be expected to change eventually. In the past 150 years or so, we’ve seen that in the right circumstances and with the right genes, a people can, to a significant degree, recover from communism, extreme technological backwardness or even a combination of the two.

    It is practical for a population to eventually recover from a bad system. Is it practical for a population to recover from bad genes? It’s possible, but it looks rather difficult and impractical. Recovery through natural methods will be an extremely slow process and not guaranteed to ever happen. Recovery through artificial methods will be an extremely difficult feat of social engineering, with all the risk of error that entails.

    So the most valuable thing that humanity possesses is our accumulation of good genes. It’s not clear that we can ever get those back if they are lost. This goes beyond IQ, as all human behavioral traits are heritable, including whatever mystery trait it is that enables a few high IQ people to actual use that IQ for something beneficial, rather than just becoming another clever silly.

    If the Cathedral were merely bent on imposing hardline totalitarian Communism, that would be bad, but at least we could expect to recover from it someday. Unfortunately, the Cathedral is bent on imposing genetic Communism and there is no reason to think that we can recover from that in anything approaching a reasonable time frame.

    fnn Reply:

    “Well, it wouldn’t be just any Sweden / East Germany, it would be a Sweden / East Germany with a basic understanding of dysgenics and a strong aversion to immigration from the third world (which, in practice, tends to be dysgenic.)”

    Sweden before 1945:

    http://conswede.blogspot.com/2008/07/social-paradigms-shift-eg-our-view-on.html

    Who would have imagined in 1933, that twelve years later Western Europe would undergo an America-led cultural revolution which would lead to the common belief that there are no differences between races?

    Translation of two of the quotes:

    Knut Bäck in Göteborgs-Posten, November 1933:
    “This world is strange… No protests are raised against how the jungle is let loose into the society. Armstrong and his band are allowed to freely wreak destruction.”

    Sten Broman in Sydsvenskan, November 1933:
    “Dare I say that he at times had something monkey-like about him and sometimes reminded of, according to our perceptions, a mentally disturbed person, when he pouted with his mouth or gaped it to its widest open and roared like a hoarse animal from a primeval forest.”

    The third quote compares the concert with a natural disaster, and Armstrong’s trumpet with a hell machine. The only good thing coming out of it, he says, is that it solves to old dispute of whether monkeys have a language.

    This is what Europe looked like, up until 1945. And since some people will live under the misconception that this was a phenomenon of the ’30s, I here provide a quote from the Swedish Encyclopedia, Nordisk Familjebok, the 1876-1899 edition (here and here).

    “Psychologically the negro can be said be on the level of a child, with vivid fantasy, lack of endurance, … can be said to lack morality rather than being immoral … etc.”

    The well-known Swedish eugenics program:

    http://www.economist.com/node/155244

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    Posted on December 13th, 2013 at 10:12 pm Reply | Quote
  • Matt Parrott Says:

    According to the White Nationalist fraternity, the Dark Enlightenment tends to like civilized people even when they aren’t really white.

    This wasn’t my thesis at all. New Right identitarianism is for all identities…separately. It has nothing to do with supremacy.

    But Spandrell is right. This is why the term “white nationalism” is meaningless for any European: white aint a nation, white aint folk.

    Nobody involved in the project, including the commenters, think that whiteness and whiteness alone is both necessary and sufficient for an ethnic/tribal/national identity group.

    HBD ain’t just PISA scores.

    Thank you.

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    admin Reply:

    Any intellectual current that consolidates itself, deliberately, as a ‘movement’ falls prey to a generic identity. Even if that’s not necessarily a ‘bad’ thing, it means that individual positions have to surrender much of their distinctiveness to the general clamor they align with. In all honesty, I think you would have to admit that your comments thread captures the tenor of the New Right stance, which values loyalty above excellence (when the two collide), derides HBD for its high-estimation of Jewish / East Asian cognitive characteristics, and would rather see a mediocre world with whites secure than a world of rapid advance (intelligence optimization) in which the historical role of European-descended peoples has been comparatively marginalized. Do you think this portrait is unfair?

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    Matt Parrott Reply:

    admin,

    In all honesty, I think you would have to admit that your comments thread captures the tenor of the New Right stance, which values loyalty above excellence (when the two collide),

    A careful analysis of the game theory confirms that selecting loyalty above excellence (iff they collide) is a prerequisite for excellence. In sports, a team of superior players who play to win as individuals will generally be defeated by a team of inferior players who play to win as a team. Among human beings, playing the tribal team sport of male territorial aggression for resource acquisition, teamwork is imperative.

    Ron Unz’s work confirms that Jewish representation in the best sinecures far outstrips their innate hbd advantages, and the parsimonious explanation for this is that the Jews tend to think and work as a coherent team. Meanwhile, Asian Americans tend to play the meritocratic game as individuals, and find themselves socially and politically invisible despite enjoying the hbd advantage.

    Theoretically speaking, the loyalty doesn’t necessarily need to be biological, unless you’re attempting to add the intergenerational dimension. Then it necessarily becomes racial/ethnic/tribal.

    derides HBD for its high-estimation of Jewish / East Asian cognitive characteristics,

    I’m not seeing this all that frequently, especially among the more influential. For the most part, we take for granted that Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians are as intelligent as the research indicates. Our beef is with those who favor the gifted alien over one’s own kinsmen (white or otherwise).

    and would rather see a mediocre world with whites secure than a world of rapid advance (intelligence optimization) in which the historical role of European-descended peoples has been comparatively marginalized. Do you think this portrait is unfair?

    It’s technically correct, but narrowly and deceptively framed. We would like to eugenically optimize our own tribes (humanely, and traditionally) for intelligence in addition to an array of other human traits which make for a better world.

    While I value intelligence, there’s creativity, loyalty, nobility, stewardship, and aesthetic beauty to be considered, as well. European cultures and communities are superior to Jewish and Asian cultures to me. I would rather be among my extended family with our artistic and literary traditions than among gifted aliens with their alien artistic and literary traditions.

    Besides, our different tribes have different types of intelligence, and the entire world would be served by helping preserve that diversity. The Jewish knack for mastering overwhelming complexity, the Asian penchant for precision engineering, and the European gift for paradigm-shattering innovation can all benefit mankind as a whole. Separately.

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    admin Reply:

    If the diversity you are seeking is expansive enough to include ethno-states AND (selectively) multicultural commercial enclaves, then I see no reason for this divergence of vision to become hopelessly rancorous. I certainly find the idea that societies have the right to determine their own ethnic composition entirely reasonable, even while finding mixture (on elitist right-wing terms) far more attractive than high-solidarity ethnic exclusivism. (The domestic hegemony of a high-competence leading culture is another matter, and probably essential.)

    It’s unlikely that WNs will model their social ideals on Singapore and Hong Kong, but I expect many Neoreactionaries to continue doing so. You are probably better able than me to predict how much friction will result from this.

    Matt Parrott Reply:

    admin,

    If the diversity you are seeking is expansive enough to include ethno-states AND (selectively) multicultural commercial enclaves, then I see no reason for this divergence of vision to become hopelessly rancorous.

    Indeed and agreed.

    It’s unlikely that WNs will model their social ideals on Singapore and Hong Kong, but I expect many Neoreactionaries to continue doing so. You are probably better able than me to predict how much friction will result from this.

    I’m banking on the work of your colleagues and yourself serving to critique and corrode the prevailing Progressive mythos, with your own proposed alternative failing to develop past a certain point, either in theory or practice. Time will tell, I suppose. But according to my model, you’re valuable allies even if you don’t necessarily think of yourselves as such.

    Posted on December 14th, 2013 at 1:49 am Reply | Quote
  • VXXC Says:

    I regret to point this out, it’s different when you’re the common enemy.

    And your enemies apparently can’t count.

    For whom Gnon would destroy he first makes mad.

    Kindly google “Fox News White Santa” and you’ll see what I mean.

    For instance…

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/12/12/santa_claus_white_fox_news_megyn_kelly_thinks_so_but_santa_s_not_real.html

    FOX hostess says it’s all just in fun. Ha. Ha.

    FOX is a business. A serious business, no Soros sugar daddy for them. This was calculated and far from the first change in “Tone”. You may add Limbaugh, Coulter and many others to the list. Or check out the comments anywhere when the race card is played.

    I’ve been saying for a year there was a sea change last november, the lights just suddenly came on everywhere within a week. It became acceptable to not only be white but to advocate for your own. As it turns out it’s not possible to eternally stir the racial shit pot and stir up all the groups but The Largest One .

    Don’t blame FOX. Blame MSNBC and the other Jud Suss Whitey media.

    Congrats. It worked. Your monster you have uttered incantations to has appeared.

    It wasn’t NR either. Look around. Real, fundamental change.

    HBD isn’t of course my thing, nor do I think it wise or just policy.

    OTOH it’s a nice hammer. To swing.

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    Posted on December 14th, 2013 at 3:12 am Reply | Quote
  • etype Says:

    @MattThis wasn’t my thesis at all. New Right identitarianism is for all identities…separately. It has nothing to do with supremacy.
    With respect Matt that is easy to say, but I don’t think your corner of the discussion has really thought that out or presented a viable praxis. Perhaps you should, it is far more workable than the rising tide of white yeomen mythos.

    Nobody involved in the project, including the commenters, think that whiteness and whiteness alone is both necessary and sufficient for an ethnic/tribal/national identity group.
    Whiteness alone is sufficient for an Anglo-American ethnic/tribal/national identity group – the same group that was instrumental in destroying the European ethnic group. This fact, which is indisputable, causes me a great deal of pessimism concerning white Anglo-American prospects. Your corner of the discussion seems intent on squeezing the pulp from the fruits of various mythic creations and not dealing with the world as it is. I have always a problem with the concept that the ‘New Right’ was action based… I see precious little of any import. Perhaps that is an indication it is time to rethink the fundamentals.

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    Posted on December 14th, 2013 at 7:10 am Reply | Quote
  • pseudo-chrysostom Says:

    if matt isint a supremacist, then i certainly am.

    like any good monkey, i take useful and inevitable shortcuts for fixing on concepts, convictions, and decisions. one of those is to be more prone to broadly approve (depending on how solipsistic i am) of things associated with thedes i approve of (or identify with), and concordantly, distrust and scrutinize products or associations of nexuses i dont approve of (or dont identify with). naturally, this process is even easier when neanderthalic civilization is one of the things you identify with.

    of course im sure we all roll eyes whenever the designated cathedralite of the day takes yet more snipes at iq or related quantifications of mental capacity, but the fact obtains; it has high correlation with g (pattern recognition and computational aptitude is naturally multi-phasic and useful in many areas), but is not itself g.

    the far more pertinent test, is the test of history. and here, the mongoloids (to include also the khazars) are barely above the rest of the world compared to western europe. it was european innovations that uplifted them to modernity, a dynamic that displays itself to this day. even in the midst of global war, the japanese remained effectively locked in time, while WEs on both sides innovated strategically, tactically, and technologically.

    the memes of fatalism and destiny endemic to asians societies aptly illustrate the difference in capacities for more transcendent reasoning inherent to these demographics. after all, how can one fight fate if the future seems alien and uncertain? or if even one did know, one wouldent know how to act differently anyways? (in an ironic turn, that vexing propensity for whites, beyond all other races, to be so self-destructive in the name of a universalizing ideal is itself an illustration also of these differences).

    the natural noble is prescient, can comprehend values and ideals that inform action in increasingly broad contexts, is not as reliant on validation to form such values and ideals, essentially, can self direct. as technology advances, the iq monkey will become increasingly superfluous as the muscle monkey before him has. the solipsistic infomorph hordes will rely, as always, on more transcendent leaders to give them a purpose in life, to provide tradition. and it is those self-same minds that have also the best capacity for disclosing the vital uplift for their superior children.

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    Posted on December 15th, 2013 at 12:43 am Reply | Quote

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