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	<title>Comments on: Xenotation (#1)</title>
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	<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/</link>
	<description>Involvements with reality</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5482</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jun 2013 00:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m going sluggish on this until I&#039;ve done some serious sleep recovery]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going sluggish on this until I&#8217;ve done some serious sleep recovery</p>
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		<title>By: raptros_</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raptros_]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Jun 2013 00:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[what you&#039;d need to do to get it running is basically &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scala-sbt.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;install sbt&lt;/a&gt; to let you build the source and then get a scala interactive session so you can play around with the definitions the code provides. can&#039;t really think of a useful interface beyond that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what you&#8217;d need to do to get it running is basically <a href="http://www.scala-sbt.org/" rel="nofollow">install sbt</a> to let you build the source and then get a scala interactive session so you can play around with the definitions the code provides. can&#8217;t really think of a useful interface beyond that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 22:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Alan Liddell
Thanks for those remarks -- already offering some thoughts to chew over. On ideas related to fiddling with the notation, the &#039;next step&#039; element to be considered is lexicographic order (as in a dictionary-type sorting algorithm). Ultimately, the single greatest difference of xenotation -- counter-intuitive (for us) -- is that its lexicographic and quantitative ordering diverge, disintegrating familiar conceptions of the number line. 
That said:
(a) Experiment is always good
(b) Your idea for a semantic usage of xeno cluster syntax (ordering) might be ultimately impractical (in these specifics), but its a sign that you&#039;re heading deep down the rabbit hole ... 

@ Raptros_
What would be required to operationalize your thingummy? Assume I know nothing at all about what you&#039;re up to at a technical level (and you&#039;d be right). It might waste less of your time if I just listen in for a while at first ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Alan Liddell<br />
Thanks for those remarks &#8212; already offering some thoughts to chew over. On ideas related to fiddling with the notation, the &#8216;next step&#8217; element to be considered is lexicographic order (as in a dictionary-type sorting algorithm). Ultimately, the single greatest difference of xenotation &#8212; counter-intuitive (for us) &#8212; is that its lexicographic and quantitative ordering diverge, disintegrating familiar conceptions of the number line.<br />
That said:<br />
(a) Experiment is always good<br />
(b) Your idea for a semantic usage of xeno cluster syntax (ordering) might be ultimately impractical (in these specifics), but its a sign that you&#8217;re heading deep down the rabbit hole &#8230; </p>
<p>@ Raptros_<br />
What would be required to operationalize your thingummy? Assume I know nothing at all about what you&#8217;re up to at a technical level (and you&#8217;d be right). It might waste less of your time if I just listen in for a while at first &#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Liddell</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan Liddell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 20:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;m not criticizing your use of Scala. You just happen to be the first person I&#039;ve come across who uses it.

Apropos of the discussion on computation, addition and subtraction would be miserable for sure, but multiplication and division would be easier, especially if (on paper) you lined up the terms or if, supposing you were to represent it as some object in the object-oriented-programming sense by an array of exponents of each particular prime. After all, you just add and subtract exponents.

Speaking of exponents, admin, it would be ever so much more tractable if instead of just concatenating, we had exponents. I had something like this in mind: 4 = 2x2 =&gt; 0^^ and 8 = 2x2x2 =&gt; 0^^^.

Of course, we could go another, more perverse, route and fix a positional rule such that a smaller number coming before a larger number implies that that larger is the exponent of the smaller. Something like 8 = 2^3 =&gt; 0(0). So when you have 7^6 (or something), you&#039;d have to write (00) back to back 6 times.

Come to think of it, there are lots of places for that to fail. Compound exponents are also right out. Better scrap it.

Now, it&#039;s telling (or is it?) that in order to do any real work, we have to go back to thinking in our mundane number system (that seems to be the point, actually). These are just some preliminary comments, I&#039;ll try and formulate some more interesting thoughts later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m not criticizing your use of Scala. You just happen to be the first person I&#8217;ve come across who uses it.</p>
<p>Apropos of the discussion on computation, addition and subtraction would be miserable for sure, but multiplication and division would be easier, especially if (on paper) you lined up the terms or if, supposing you were to represent it as some object in the object-oriented-programming sense by an array of exponents of each particular prime. After all, you just add and subtract exponents.</p>
<p>Speaking of exponents, admin, it would be ever so much more tractable if instead of just concatenating, we had exponents. I had something like this in mind: 4 = 2&#215;2 =&gt; 0^^ and 8 = 2x2x2 =&gt; 0^^^.</p>
<p>Of course, we could go another, more perverse, route and fix a positional rule such that a smaller number coming before a larger number implies that that larger is the exponent of the smaller. Something like 8 = 2^3 =&gt; 0(0). So when you have 7^6 (or something), you&#8217;d have to write (00) back to back 6 times.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, there are lots of places for that to fail. Compound exponents are also right out. Better scrap it.</p>
<p>Now, it&#8217;s telling (or is it?) that in order to do any real work, we have to go back to thinking in our mundane number system (that seems to be the point, actually). These are just some preliminary comments, I&#8217;ll try and formulate some more interesting thoughts later.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: raptros_</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raptros_]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 04:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oh i just realized -  if you want I can export a zip of the current repo state and send that by email or something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh i just realized &#8211;  if you want I can export a zip of the current repo state and send that by email or something.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: raptros_</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5438</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raptros_]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 02:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes, that is all correct. that is what my comment about time and memory constraints was all about.

my code defines a lazy sequence of primes, using some decent techniques for filtering based on what&#039;s already been computed. could be improved, of course, but frankly I don&#039;t think anyone&#039;s going to need to be able to evaluate expressions so far out that they&#039;d notice the slowdown. (if anyone wants to take a shot at improving it, just send me a merge request on github if you come up with anything.)

the rest of the operations are defined on that sequence of primes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, that is all correct. that is what my comment about time and memory constraints was all about.</p>
<p>my code defines a lazy sequence of primes, using some decent techniques for filtering based on what&#8217;s already been computed. could be improved, of course, but frankly I don&#8217;t think anyone&#8217;s going to need to be able to evaluate expressions so far out that they&#8217;d notice the slowdown. (if anyone wants to take a shot at improving it, just send me a merge request on github if you come up with anything.)</p>
<p>the rest of the operations are defined on that sequence of primes.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 01:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Raptros_
Damn! My proxy won&#039;t let me into that link. Hopefully somebody will feel motivated to say what is going on there.

[I&#039;m especially interested because it should be impossible to code into Xeno without an ordinated matrix of the prime series (designating each prime first, second, third etc.), and the predominant part of modern cryptography relies on the fact that this matrix is irreducible to a formula -- so I&#039;m wondering how your program is working]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Raptros_<br />
Damn! My proxy won&#8217;t let me into that link. Hopefully somebody will feel motivated to say what is going on there.</p>
<p>[I&#8217;m especially interested because it should be impossible to code into Xeno without an ordinated matrix of the prime series (designating each prime first, second, third etc.), and the predominant part of modern cryptography relies on the fact that this matrix is irreducible to a formula &#8212; so I&#8217;m wondering how your program is working]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: raptros_</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[raptros_]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[scala is good stuff. it&#039;s a good thing if it&#039;s the cool thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>scala is good stuff. it&#8217;s a good thing if it&#8217;s the cool thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[rubs hands with glee]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[rubs hands with glee]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Liddell</title>
		<link>http://www.xenosystems.net/xenotation-1/#comment-5413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan Liddell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jun 2013 20:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xenosystems.net/?p=575#comment-5413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;@Raptros_&lt;/strong&gt;
Scala? Is that what the cool kids are using these days?

&lt;strong&gt;@admin&lt;/strong&gt;
I&#039;m working on an analysis of this. I&#039;m not a number theorist, but this sort of thing is always interesting to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Raptros_</strong><br />
Scala? Is that what the cool kids are using these days?</p>
<p><strong>@admin</strong><br />
I&#8217;m working on an analysis of this. I&#8217;m not a number theorist, but this sort of thing is always interesting to me.</p>
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