Quote note (#132)

WRM on the politics of amnesty by executive order:

For many liberal Democrats (as well as for some of their Republican opponents) two key beliefs about immigration shape their political strategies. The first is that Latinos are the new blacks: a permanent racial minority or subgroup in the American political system that will always feel separate from the country’s white population and, like African-Americans, will vote Democratic. On this assumption, the Democratic approach to Hispanic Americans should be clear: the more the merrier. That is a particularly popular view on the more leftish side of the Democratic coalition, where there’s a deep and instinctive fear and loathing of Jacksonian America (those “bitterly clinging” to their guns, their Bibles, and their individualistic economic and social beliefs). The great shining hope of the American left is that a demographic transition through immigration and birthrates will finally make all those tiresome white people largely irrelevant in a new, post-American America that will forget all that exceptionalism nonsense and ditch “Anglo-Saxon” cultural and economic ideas ranging from evangelical religion to libertarian social theory.

If conventional wisdom on the subject is this stark — and Mead is a good weather-vane for that — then Obama might as well put on the Kill Whitey T-shirt, because he’s clearly not fooling anybody. (It’s also worth explicitly noting, for the anti-market trads out there, that your besieged cultural norms and laissez-faire capitalism are on the same radical leftist death list, whether you appreciate the company or not.)

November 24, 2014admin 28 Comments »
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28 Responses to this entry

  • Derfel Says:

    If this is the Democratic approach to achieve single-party state status, it will probably backfire once these Latinos begin vote for populistic, Hugo Chavez-style politicians, like they do in their homelands, and push the Democratic Party to occupy the right-wing of the American political spectrum.


    MLR Reply:

    I’m not sure that’s how ratchets work, Derfel … You mean push the Dems right like Chavez’s power grab pushed … who? … to the right? … to what effect?


    Posted on November 24th, 2014 at 3:52 pm Reply | Quote
  • Kgaard Says:

    I am softening on this issue. I live in an extremely multicultural area that has been innundated with Latinos, Asians and everyone else in recent years. And yet … there is no crime. Zero. Over 7 years the Latinos have impressed me as dutiful and normal people infused with reasonably good morals and obviously an intense work ethic. Every morning I interact with a dozen of them down at the 7-11. I’ve hired them for years. I deal with them in stores. They cut my hair. I have traveled throughout Latin America, worked there and lived there.

    Will they vote Dem forever? I kind of doubt it. At a cellular level Latinos don’t hate whites … they aspire to BE white (and are themselves half white as a general rule). The people they don’t like are blacks.

    One exercise I have been trying to do is to take my own ego out of the situation. If I could get beyond the feeling of having been invaded, how would I feel about my neighborhood? Well, I would take it as pretty normal — typical of the multicultural neighborhoods I have lived in over the years. It’s the feeling of having been invaded that is a big part of the issue. And yet we can’t hang that one on the Latinos themselves. That was driven by feminists, communists, American capitalists and opportunists in the Democratic party.

    There is an argument that what’s really determining voting patterns is not so much race as income. As whites coagulate at the upper income ranges (relatively speaking) they vote more and more Republican. Those who are poor in America are now largely the immigrants and blacks. So they vote left. But you can see the conservative mental architecture at work in the Latinos, and you can also see how conceptually there is a path for them to become self-sustaining members of the country and thus gradually move rightward in their politics (except the single moms etc, which is of course a big exception).

    Feel free to rip this to shreds. But it’s where I’m at right now.


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    In my stretch of the woods, immigration from Mexico has coincided with a big increase in litter everywhere and nothing not locked up getting stolen. Aluminum picnic benches from the parks even. Also payday loan shops have proliferated.

    Maybe its a coincidence, but I bet not. Your feelings and your anecdotes don’t disprove the data that diversity equals less trust and prosocial behavior.


    Kgaard Reply:

    Might also correlate to region. What part of the country are you in? I’m in northern Virginia. I imagine it’s a whole lot different down by the border, or even in poor sections of other cities …


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    I live in the Mexican Cession.

    Aeroguy Reply:

    “What happens to us in the future? What, do we become assholes or something?”
    “No, no, no, no, no, M̶a̶r̶t̶y̶Juan. Both you and J̶e̶n̶n̶i̶f̶e̶r̶Maria turn out fine. It’s your kids, M̶a̶r̶t̶y̶Juan. Something gotta be done about your kids!”

    I remember growing up and being friends with the Mexican mafia family that lived down the street. They were high enough in the structure to be smart enough not to shit where they eat (I grew up in a very nice neighborhood). My parents know something was up because they didn’t have much in the way of furniture, also they were caught after moving out (They were into the machine gun smuggling). But while we knew them they were great neighbors, had a boy the same age as me, played all the time.

    I did a 6 month lease at an apartment in the barrio because of the 5 minute commute. Wasn’t as bad as people imagine, worst part was packages because there was no dropbox, the neighborhood post office was insufferably crowded, or it got stolen if left at your door. The worst characters were black, but the actual hispanics were perfectly nice and very friendly, if you don’t mind a totally sketchy area and the occasional car blasting mariachi music. Between my online ordering habits and my girlfriend becoming increasingly uncomfortable visiting me with all the vibrant diversity around I bit the bullet on taking a longer commute.

    When it comes to statistics Hispanics are basically halfway between whites and blacks. They are less individualistic than whites much less white Americans, they thrive best under authoritarianism. Rules is rules, unless properly incentivised. For now they’re Catholic and tribal. Unlike legal immigrants who typically cause brain drain from their native countries, the movement north is by the dregs who’s native countries want nothing to do with them, like sending the towns homeless on a greyhound. In cities near the boarder there is a pattern similar but different to the classic urban ghetto suburban sprawl. North side vs south side, hispanic populations gather in the southern part of the city, it is especially stark in cities like San Antonio and Tucson.

    For looking at the quality of schools as measured by test score, demographics is of course your best variable for making predictions, sure hispanics do better than blacks, but only by so much. They’re awful drivers often without insurance, worst of all they’re slow drivers. Given that plus having their present crop of youngsters indoctrinated into evangelical populism. Their children will be no more Catholic than the Kennedys. Hopefully we’ll find some who spit out the indoctrination, but they’d be as rare as right wing jews, these are nothing like the Cuban exiles.

    If I understand the executive order, they are to be granted work orders and leave to stay, presumably opening the door to their extended families in the near future. Presently they operate by working under the table or using stolen SSNs. Benefits follow children. Given our growing welfare system what incentive is there for a young woman to be married to a struggling workman when Uncle Sam can provide? I paint a harsh picture here, regression to the mean would indicate in this case that the children would fair better than their parents, however if whites become chavs under welfare, what hope is there for hispanics?

    Kgaard, if I didn’t know any better I’d say you were positioning yourself for a career in the Senate.


    Kgaard Reply:

    Ha … No … I’m not driven by politics. It’s more like anger management. I recently did a week-long retreat in which I spent a good deal of time thinking/ranting about immigration. Ultimately one of the mantras of the place was that “anger is repressed guilt.” I think that is spot on. My anger at immigration has really been a function of my guilt at not being able to single-handedly PROTECT my culture and my neighborhood. Once I get over that … once I get over the idea that it’s all my fault, the anger sort of fades. I can view it as Gnon at work. Smart white women didn’t want to have sufficient babies, and population replacement is the inevitable result. And you know what? It’s not my fault. C’est la vie. Or, more to the point, Que sera sera …


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    “Anger is repressed guilt” is nonsense.

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Population replacement isn’t the inevitable result, unless population growth within the boundaries of the US is taken as a physical law. It isn’t.

    Smart Japanese women aren’t having babies either. Is Nippon flooded with illegal immigrants and amnesties?

    Kgaard Reply:

    The fact that Japan is not flooded with illegals doesn’t impact the fact that the US HAS been flooded with illegals — against your will and against my will. Japan is made up of a different stock of people with different DNA and a different attitude to outsiders.

    Remember the Volkmar Weiss piece? (Link below.) One of his most powerful anecdotes involves the collapse of the German population in Transylvania in the 1800s. Basic problem, he asserts, is that very smart people, when put into a population with less smart people, find themselves at the edge of the IQ bell curve. As such it becomes harder for them to meet other similar people, mate and pump out babies. Over time the population of smart people withers and disappears.


    This is part of what is happening in the US. It’s just harder for smart dudes to FIND hot, intelligent, fertile women. So it’s Gnon at work again. Not my fault, not your fault. Gnon.

    Question is how one wants to spend one’s time: Railing against forces beyond one’s control or trying to come up with a creative response and live a creative life. Only point I’m trying to make is that I am wearing out on option 1 (which, by the way, does not generate interactions with hot fertile women) and looking into possibilities for option 2.

    You know … East Coast WASPs have been dealing with this issue for 300 years. That’s why they are so comfortable with an aristocratic social structure. From the cradle, they have no illusions that social life should be democratic. They grow up knowing that they exist in a pecking order — and are at the top of it. When I first encountered these people in college (me coming from the midwest and having an inherently democratic mindset) I hated them all. But now I have become them, after 20 years on the East Coast. This is the reality to which we have to adjust. The era of democratic fellow feeling is over. Now it’s an aristocracy everywhere. One has to learn to adjust to being on top of it.

    Lesser Bull Reply:

    I see where you are coming from, but I have children. I can’t just resign myself to the things being bad and getting ever worse.

    Kgaard Reply:

    But it has always been this way. Just think how 10th generation WASPs in New Jersey felt 100 years ago when they were being bombarded with poor immigrants from central and southern Europe. They must have been horrified. Yes, the people coming today are different, but the principle is the same. Their response was not to give up but to shift their perspective to an aristocratic one: We rule, you serve. That’s the only way. The newcomers expect it, too.

    Scharlach Reply:

    Like whites, not all Latinos are created equal. This is something that most of us recognize at a theoretical level but fail to keep in mind when we start talking about Latinos.

    According to Pew, about 30% of Latinos are Republican voters. (Not a great proxy for right-wing ideology, but it’ll have to do.) That increases to 40% for Latinos who make more than 50k a year. Now, on one hand, yes, that means a hell of a lot of left-wingery among Latinos. On the other hand, 30-40% is not negligible, especially when compared to the 10% of blacks who vote right-wing. As long as the American right-wing doesn’t do anything stupid to scare away that 30-40%, then the left-wing strategy of “electing a new people” might seriously backfire, at least in the short to middle term. There are a handful of L.A. and Central California suburbs that are majority-Hispanic but vote Republican (even Tea Party Republican) in all elections.

    I’ve spent most of my life in Hispanic-majority California cities and suburbs, and I see no rhyme or reason behind who is part of the 30-40% right-wing among Hispanics and who isn’t. Sure, it cuts partially across the mestizo/Iberian divide, but then, the most right-wing reactionary I’ve ever known in real life was a swarthy-skinned first generation mestizo. Of course, the most left-wing SJW I’ve ever known was the same. Like whites, they’re a mixed bag, ideologically.

    With Kgaard’s point I agree completely. As long as we’re talking about mestizos and Conquistador-Americans (and not Afro-Caribbeans), Latinos are a thousand times preferable to a tidal wave of Africans or Islamists. Like Jews, middle and upper class Latinos, even if they vote left-wing, live very right-wing lives. I grew up in an L.A. suburb that is 50% Hispanic, and it has one of the lowest crime rates in the state. I’ve spent plenty of time among lower-SES Latinos, as well, and they’re far more civilized than . . . . other lower-SES demographic groups. Hell, at least among poor Latinos, you’ll have an abuela or a super-religious uncle around who keeps the apartment stocked in books and culture and keeps things relatively civilized. I can’t even say the same for lower-SES whites.

    All of this is to say that 30-40% of Latinos are, if not on our side, at least not hostile to the right wing, and certainly no friends of the left. Again, those aren’t negligible numbers. It therefore behooves us American reactionaries not to take a tone that equates Latinos with blacks. As much as I love Sailer, he writes as though voting trends among Hispanics are like those among blacks, and they just aren’t. There’s more to work with when it comes to our half-cousins from across the Southern border.


    Lesser Bull Reply:

    Sailer is opposed to immigration, so “more to work with” compared to other ethnicities would only matter if we were (1) talking about a trade or (2) the comparison ethnicities were so numerous that Hispanic immigration would improve the average.

    Neither is the case.


    Chris B Reply:

    This is pretty much how this work. Person A in an area has some positive experience with “immigrants” and then decides “hey, these guys are nice, they must ALL be nice”. They then decide “I’m pro-immigrant” and then agitate for everyone else to suffer hell in the form of constant streams of utterly useless detritus from some hideous backwater like Pakistan.
    Start here- first, there is no such thing as immigrants. Stop universalizing, that’s progism.
    second, realize each area is subject to differing immigration levels from differing groups from differing countries. Your batch of Hispanics may be from a fairly wealth area of wherever, and may be above average in being civilized. Other people may get the hideous sections of the population (again think Pakistan – some are from higher castes, other like most Kashmiris are backward awful goat herding low IQ uncivilised/ uncivilisable people.)
    thirdly, understand that thinking “how will these people vote?” is indicative of a mental illness called ‘democracy’. Go re read Moldbug on this point.


    Kgaard Reply:

    Chris … This is all sound logic. My point was more, “What are we supposed to DO about it? If the answer is that we can’t do anything because we were sold out by other forces beyond our control, what then? What is the proper stance of the neoreactionary in the multicultural neighborhood? Permanent anger? I’ve tried that. Moving? To where? Idaho? Anyplace nice is gonna have a lot of immigrants by definition. Ukraine? Tried that. Too cold.

    Maybe I’m answering a different question than that posed. But where does this whole thing go? Stating “immigration of uneducated third worlders is bad” … we know that. What now? If we’ve lost the battle, and we have, what now? Have a heart attack? Adjust? Move? Look at them funny every time they walk by? There are no easy answers.


    Chris B Reply:

    A whole world of questions there. The simple answer to most of them is that at present,all you can do is deal with the stupid situation as best you can. The entire system will shake itself apart, how and when is impossible to fix. The solutions will vary by time and place, ranging from exit to simple deportation. Any place which eventually has solid ownership in place will have to make decisions on the viability of our new neighbors. Your feelings should have zero to do with it, that’s how we are in this mess. For now, I try to be civil despite the hordes of third world pakistanis that have been dumped on my neighbourhood in the UK. The situation cannot last in this form. If I was in charge, I would be furiously implementing race neutral legislation and oppressing this vibrant enclaves with reality and offering smooth quick exit. This would involve adhering to laws and prosecuting 100% with deportation a 1st or 2nd step process (for any generation without proof of connection to actual English people in the form of marriage or genetics) in the case of transgressions. This would reduce the vibrant populations drastically. I would also remove the option of citizenship except in the case of marriage.

    vxxc2014 Reply:

    Your comfortable. So we should be comfortable with ethnic cleansing?

    They won’t vote Dem forever only if flat out Reds run.

    The people voting Republican are yesterdays Democrats. They’ll be tomorrows or today’s equivalent of the KKK, and that’s if they/we don’t get a Hitler. I don’t want a Hitler, unless there’s no other choice [that being the 1932 equation]. But of course Hitler isn’t my problem he’s your problem.. .

    Actually Hispanics would be pretty happy to get behind their own Hitler.

    Apparently Mead isn’t as comfortable with all this, interestingly he’s choosing his own.


    Posted on November 24th, 2014 at 6:26 pm Reply | Quote
  • Quote note (#132) | Reaction Times Says:

    […] Source: Outside In […]

    Posted on November 24th, 2014 at 6:59 pm Reply | Quote
  • Alrenous Says:

    I should add nothing in anarcho-capitalism stops a trad from patronizing a security firm that will not back laissez-faire style contracts. Indeed the mere existence of trads all but guarantees such a firm will exist.


    Posted on November 24th, 2014 at 7:05 pm Reply | Quote
  • Thales Says:

    “then Obama might as well put on the Kill Whitey T-shirt”

    T-shirt slogans #18…


    Posted on November 25th, 2014 at 1:01 am Reply | Quote
  • vinteuil Says:


    OK, so you’re an inhabitant of the DC suburbs & you’ve been hiring Hispanics for years.

    Did I get that much right?

    “I am softening on this issue.”

    Any chance you could link to a post where you took a harder line?


    Kgaard Reply:

    I don’t know that I could find anything particularly fulmitous I’ve written re immigrants. I’ve simply been thinking it for years. Re the Hispanics I have hired, we’re talking lawn work, maids, that sort of thing. I sit inside and work, they rake leaves and cut the grass. It’s crossed my mind to try to find a non-Hispanic yard service, but I’ve never seen one around here. (I suppose if I tried I could find one.)

    I’m not advocating for a pro-immigration stance at all. Just commenting on my internal shift from constant fury to grudging acceptance. The deal is done and it’s not my fault it happened.


    Posted on November 25th, 2014 at 1:20 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    Then we need to undo the Deal.

    We’re dealt out and have no reason to keep someone else’s Deal that stabs us in the back.


    Posted on November 25th, 2014 at 8:38 am Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    In the normal course of things –If they become Cops or Soldiers it’s going to work, because I know it works. Or Firefighters. As it did with the Irish. It would help if the Catholic Church weren’t an arm of Social Justice, but it is.

    If they’re left in the welfare machine they become black, at least partly.

    This does America no good.

    However that’s the normal course of things. Normal has been ending for over a year.


    Posted on November 25th, 2014 at 9:56 pm Reply | Quote
  • vxxc2014 Says:

    None of the above is what came in 2014. What happened before is irrelevant.

    What came in 2014 was 84% teenage males, classified UAC or un-acompanined minors mostly from Central America. Coming from MS13 neighborhoods, delivered and funded by HHS to what are or will be Gang Neighborhoods.

    So forget about what happened before. Teenage male in conflict Zone=Soldier. Whether he likes it or not. Gangs have an effective way of recruiting: Join or else. It would help to remember of course that MS13’s roots are the Communist insurgencies of the 1980s. Ahem. You may simply consider these businesses as contracted to deliver a product, and that product is mercenaries.

    So 74,000 teenage males from gang areas in Central America were delivered by Transnational Organized Crime to DHS, to HHS which delivers them to lovely caring homes here.

    These are soldiers. Period.

    So based on what HHS’s contracted muscle – which is what they are – you may discern the paying party’s priorities based on where they massed the contracted muscle.

    Their priorities are: TX, NYC, DC, FL and Portland Oregon.

    Here’s the sources and breakdown. Calling it Order of Battle is my choice.

    I’m already just treating it like the Job and that’s all, clears the mind.


    Here’s Cooper University 2010 racial dot map based on 2010 census. Superimposed on the attached HHS UAC grants/subcontracts it basically lines up, the exception being in Northeast it wraps over onto Ohio.


    The attached map shows HHS community houses, so those are only possibles.

    This link does list where the little darlings actually did go:


    UAC means unaccompanied minor. Which really means male Teens this year. 84% teen males.

    Male Teen in conflict zone=Soldier. Whether he likes it or not. Especially Communist conflict zones [Salvatrucha is communist founded.]. Communists offer you fight or bullet since USSR 1917. China too.

    Lead or silver is only new in Latin America because now that they’re in business they have Silver too.

    These UACs are being transferred from a conflict zone to gang influenced communities in the US, and the pre-USA legs of their journey are conducted by Trans-national organized crime, which isn’t in charitable families being reunited business either.

    What they want from the actual confirmed handoffs from HHS is where they’re concentrating, but the attached map which shows known possible communities where they’re dropped as opposed to confirmed in earlier email does follow logical lines of conflict, except for Great Lakes/OH.

    1] TX

    2] NYC

    3] DC

    4] FL

    5] Portland OR.


    Posted on November 25th, 2014 at 10:08 pm Reply | Quote
  • Ex-pat in Oz Says:


    Well, there goes Portlandia!!


    Posted on November 28th, 2014 at 7:19 am Reply | Quote

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